2000
2002
2004

IMO impeachment without overwhelming, documented, self-incriminating proof is a bad idea. Americans, in general, want stability from their government. We will be made to look like sore losers, and we will be punished for it in 2020.

...comparing Clinton's one lie to the mountain of cover-up and obstruction from witnesses and defendants in this case is a useless endeavor.

Either our party stands for the rule of law, or it forfeits the right and responsibility to provide a check on this president (or any other) to history.

You won't find the Democratic party settling for such timidity over what republicans might do in response.

...backloaded with reams more than a lie in a deposition about whether he slept with someone.

Republicans will be loath to protect Trump when the full measure of his crimes and defrauding is revealed by the special counsel. He won't have the American people with him either; no cover from them for crimes raging from fraud to aiding a foreign government in interfering in our process of elections.

The Clinton impeachment was a farce, and everyone recognized that. This is much more serious and consequential for this president and his party.

...it's a goal.

That's what we're striving for with every instigation of democracy our legislators exercise, from investigations, to subpoenas, to congressional testimony, all leading into the next election.

We shouldn't start this session assuming republicans aren't the craven, political cowards we just rolled in the last election.

... about consensual sex and someone who's ... ADMITTEDLY ... worked with the Russians while they were attacking America should be treated differently.

I don't see your comment in context of this

35% of Americans supported to one that now over 60% of Americans support. And after the House gets through it will be 75%.

Impeach the Mother Fucker!

Impeach The Mother Fucker Already

I think the pins were already made and handed out over a year ago.

Recycling is virtuous, isn't it?

Heat of the moment kinda stuff. High adrenaline from making it to the HOUSE OF FUCKING REPRESENTATIVES! At a rally with her base.

Yeah, I can forgive that. Youth and exuberance is to be prized, even as it needs channeling.

It was dumb, but not fatal.

She'll learn...

decorum be damned...clear and unambiguous...impeach the motherfucker!

swift boated for eternity!

we Dems have been dignified forever...taking the high road...turning the other cheek, bending over ..so afraid to offend...and we shoot our own for speaking the truth...enough! it's way past time for us to stand up and shout...and how wonderful that a House newbie feels she can do the impossible...

The person who is in the Oval Office can say all kinds of foul shit, including verbally assaulting women, without consequences.

It's about time someone on our side is finally "telling it like it is".

...piloting Swift Boats that was twisted, smeared, and turned into an utter lie about cowardice.

Dignity had nothing to do with his being "swiftboated" -- it was loathesome GOP ratfucking.

Use the term knowing what it really is. Just sayin'

in fact Kevin McCarthy is already doing THAT on the fox propaganda network!

You know, there have been some pretty well-respected leaders who used profanity to effect... William T. Sherman, for example. George Patton, for another.

When Patton wanted his men to remember something of importance, he laced it with plenty of profanity. As he put it, “You can’t run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn’t fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag.”

His best known speech, delivered on numerous occasions with small variants, was laced with expletives. “The Speech” was full of “blood and guts” as well as plenty of cussing for effect. Patton understood the need for leaders to provide an example, and in a citizens' army made up of a mix of regulars, reservists, and draftees facing an enemy that had been at war years longer than the Americans, he was aware his men were watching him - a professional who had served with distinction in WW I - constantly, and to lead by his words as much as by his actions.

Some officers found his use of obscenities disappointing, viewing it as unprofessional. Patton’s onetime subordinate and later superior, Gen. Omar Bradley, was critical of his language. The man who commanded both, Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, saw that each officer had his strengths and used them both as was most effective, and delivered: notably, the German armies in the West were destroyed in the field in roughly 11 months of combat after the invasion of Normandy; in addition, France and Belgium were liberated, and more than half of Germany, including the richest industrial zone, the Ruhr, had been conquered and occupied. In WW I, the Allies had fought Germany for 48 months and never made it across the Franco-German border.

The question of whether swearing is a powerful rhetorical device or a character blemish might seem trivial. But the art of leadership is not. And Patton was an extraordinarily gifted combat commander. He had an ability to motivate soldiers under his command to close with and kill the enemy that is undeniable. His bedrock tactic in combat was to attack, attack, and attack some more, and yet to do so without excessive casualties on the part of the US and Allied forces. As the man said:

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.

Bradley, although an effective combat commander at the army and corps level, as Patton was, was more of a strategist and planner, and so rose to the army group level, one echelon above army commander and one below Eisenhower as theater commander, where Bradley was also very effective.

There's room for both Patton's approach, and Bradley's, in this fight - and Speaker Pelosi has more than a little of Ike about her leadership. She knows which tools to use for the task...

at this stage we really don't know if we have the votes for impeachment

...even here.

Pious handwringing, and all that. Someone saying we need to be "dignified" or we'll be "swiftboated." Um, wrong analogy.

But I have to say her sheer joy and enthusiasm in that clip did my heart good.

That woman was CELEBRATING!

Sadly, the Congressional newbs need to learn one lesson in a fucking hurry. ALWAYS ASSUME A CAMERA IS RECORDING YOU.

You mentioned John Kerry - "voted for it before he voted against it"

I'll mention HRC (for whom I am an unapologetic cheerleader and fan) - "basket of deplorables"

For Willard - it was the 47% thing.

And so on and so forth.

(This are just examples. They are mentioned, but NOT to relitigate anf of it)

That remark WILL be replayed. Our job is to circle wagons and trow it right back at them by citing some stupid shit THEY said.

An imitation of a Trump rally by a House member from an absolutely safe blue district is not the basis of policy making.

and say she didn’t use that word with her kid. She sounds like someone who was a little too wound up at the end of a big day. Not something I would call a career highlight.

...wondering why their government doesn't seem to be doing anything about this threat to our nation and democracy in the White House.

I've said the same to my own children. Our nation is under attack. Legislators are behaving like frogs in increasingly boiling water, politically leavening their criticisms and responses. We need to learn how to respond, as a party, to thugs and abusers.

Definitely the passion this grifting traitor calls for out of our legislators. I'm more perplexed and flummoxed by the formalities and niceties addressing Trump than I am this honest expression from the new Rep.

It’s somewhere between Schumer and Tlaib, or “Mr. President”and “motherfucker.” The English language is a wondrous thing. Harry Reid, for instance, was great at filleting Republicans with words that didn’t include asterisks.

Beyond that, Bigtree, why are you applauding a statement that gives life to every crazy Muslim stereotype imaginable? Tlaib is an important, consequential person, not a circus act. This is not a positive for her or her community. Google the headlines for this and see how many articles use “Muslim” or “Palestinian-American.”

...or why anyone should be afraid of expressing themselves because someone might label them with their ethnicity. Not really something I ascribe to.

We don't get anywhere covering our asses as we move forward to confront Trump. No one should be shy about expressing their anger and disgust.

Trump’s lack of decency is no excuse.

And it attracts negative attention

...as if hand-wringing over the remarks is sound political strategy.

Don't mind that the opposition party is tut-tutting this right along with our own brilliant, navel-gazing party strategists criticizing the remarks.

A legislator called a dangerous abuser who is still on a rampage through our democracy a bad name.

THAT'S who I want running Trump down! Not mealy-mouthed apologists too afraid to call a motherfucker a motherfucker.

Vulgar language doesn’t make it go any faster

...no use pretending most people aren't thinking the same.

Silly to act as if we're a nation of prudes who can't countenance this legislator speaking her mind.

He was not shy about expressing his anger and disgust. But he should have been.

What she did was not nearly as bad, given the private setting, but it was clearly over the line.

There are more dignified and effective ways to express oneself that don't dump the Dems in the same toilet that the GOP wallows in.

And she’s deft enough to filet and sauté him to his face using the sweetest, most innocuous language ...

How come when Trump and his supporters act like the idiots they are, the media doesn't go out linking it to the white community?

Film at 11.

Passivity and playing by Marquess of Queensberry Rules is partially responsible for what got us into this mess in the first place.

Whenever POSSIBLE, Dems really need to be taking it TO thuglicans who have proven time and time again that if they're WILLING and ABLE to vote years in a dam ROW to strip our health care away from us with NO replacement which would mean DEATH for many, then those muthafukkas need to be dealt with and taken seriously.

Like you said, I'm seriously flummoxed by the formalities and niceties ALLOWED to tReasonous-in-chief than I am with this honest expression from the new Rep as well.

Oh so "Tee hee (Say many in the corporate media) it's just tRumputin' being a treasonous, lying, racist piece of shit," while still coming for Hillary was a bad candidate who had email problems and Howard Dean's 'scream' shit is STILL talked about and referenced way too much, especially when you have a law-breaking, treasonous, thuglican hog like tRumputin and complicit thuglicans looking the other way while he's circumventing the rule of law of this damn COUNTRY.

And an important aspect of leadership at this point is to carefully and strategically coax people along to get to where we're trying to go.

"Echoing" the most passionate views of people who are already there is not an effective method for doing this.

...because she's obviously not leading.

She's actually just standing somewhere in the Capitol yelling 'Impeach the Motherfucker' over and over.

"Leash" her?

Oh sure, he'll feign shock and outrage, but he has desecrated the office and no foul words come close to exacting the same kind of damage he has wrought.

A for enthusiasm but F for good sense. We’ve got to get this impeachment talk under control. Do the investigations, gather the evidence, let Mueller do his thing and if (when) the crimes come out, then you pounce.

Rookie mistake. The alt-right propagandists will have a field day with this.

We need to ACCEPT that there is nothing people can do or say and the alt-right won't turn it into a psycho conspiracy theory that the 30% will believe without question.

persuaded. It can’t appear to be outcome determinative but must instead be clear that the facts led to the result, not the other way around. Savvy Dems are gradually building a case that can be accepted by the people we need to get to the numbers necessary to impeach and remove him.

Announcing on the first day “we’re gonna impeach the motherfucker” may feel good to those who already want him out, but does nothing to actually get us there.

Pelosi, DCCC, etc., very carefully framed the winning strategy and messaging around a promise to improve the lives of the American people and to investigate Trump and to take action that the results of those investigation called for in order to do justice. They didn’t promise “to impeach the motherfucker” on day one. And had they done so, there would have been no Blue Wave and no celebratory party for Tlaib to go off the rails at.

It was careless and counterproductive.

I love everything about her and this video!

I say it everyday myself. Impeach the mother fucker.

If anything, Republicans look like monumental phonies and hypocrites for acting like this is offensive. If the "grab em by the pussy" party wants to pretend this is outrageous behavior, let them. They look like fools.

While I am glad, especially as a Michigander, that Tlaib got elected, settle down and, while I have called pumpkin head much worse, I am not a congresswoman. She needs to be aware that everything she says from now on will be viewed and dissected by both the media and republicans. This kind of language doesn’t help.

It's obvious what _must_ be done with Trump, if "law" is to mean anything in this country. We need to stop being afraid to present consequences to this obvious lawbreaker.

Link to tweet

...

Link to tweet

I believe Nadler will be instrumental in bringing Trump down. Just because he's experienced, measured and unwilling to let his emotions get the best of him, it doesn't mean he's ineffective and "yawn" worthy.

Busting out with "impeach the mofo!" the very first day shows little discipline or understanding of the process. While I don't think it was career ending, it was absolutely not how the dems should present themselves first thing out the gate. She should let the seasoned pros handle it if this is going to be her method.

Speaking of seasoned pros, go watch Pelosi's interview in which she speaks to indictment of the POTUS. Far more powerful without any emotional outbursts. Of course, there is a reason she's been reelected speaker.

P.S. I have no ill will toward Tlaib, but it was bad optics, pure and simple.

...he's not my go to for political prognostication, tho, notably wavery on the congresswoman's remarks. He didn't want to make headlines here and ended up, anyway, as a vehicle for all of the finger-wagging and self-flagellation over the congresswoman's promise to pursue this presidency to impeachment.

Nadler isn't going to benefit from some tamping down of his committee's investigations into Trump and his administration. If he's not leading to impeachment, he's doing it wrong, whether he announces it from the start, or not. He's going to benefit from passion generated outside of his proceedings for holding this administration accountable, complete with all of the outrage and venom directed it deserves

A majority of Americans polled favor impeachment, even before Mueller's report, and this direct call for just that is supposed to be politically unwise? In what universe?

about impeachment.

It's about a newly elected leader using "mofo" in public comments to her supporters the day she's sworn in. If she's left out the "mofo," we would all be high-fiving her.

As for impeachment (and or indictment), Nadler et al. are gearing up. They are most definitely going to go after Trump like barracudas. No one should assume their measured approach is one of weakness.

Quite the opposite.

Who cares about that?

I just think they want to pull back the reins and not sensationalize this as the language and timing does for just the reason you state. They do see impeachment in the future and they want it to be and appear to be a rational process based on facts of collusion and corruption and not look like some knee-jerk partisanship.

The people who love her saying what she did are already on board with impeachment. But in order to actually impeach and remove him, the party needs to carefully build a case that will convince a broader range of the public. If selling wolf-tickets and yelling obscenities about Trump were an effective strategy for this, we'd already have the numbers. Pelosi, the committee chairs and others are methodically building the case and loudly promising to impeach Trump at this stage won't do that.

...but...

Mofo is very offensive to some folks. It's also takes more effort to say than just fucker, so it comes across deliberately vulgar. Like I said, I've used the term myself when describing Trump, but that doesn't make it less jarring to hear it come out of the mouth of a leader I support.

Of course, if Obama said it, I'd forgive him. So, Tlaib will be forgiven too, I'm sure. But hopefully she'll learn from this and choose her words wisely and more timely.

at home and abroad. Moreover, it is under his administration's watch that has caused the death of 2 children already.
Ms. Tlaib speaks for the majority of us who day in day out are mad as hell. Don't shush her. She's showing us she's not afraid to stand up to the biggest bully and his party of bullies, and isn't about to roll over to let them step all over her. She's there not to play nice, but "to fix sh!t".

We're suggesting that she could have used more powerful words and a more measured approach.

I'm mad as hell too and want Trump out, but I knew the minute I saw the video that she erred. Those of us on this forum are woke and very active politically. Others in this country...not so much. And whether we like it or not, we have to accept that they may be repulsed by her approach so early in the year. I'm not talking about Trump's base (could care less what they think). I'm talking about Americans who may have voted for the dems in the midterms expecting better. smarter, more decent leadership. Not more of the same since January 2017.

if it was any other president (even Dubya) i'd be repulsed. In this case this mofo deserved it (yes i said that very powerfully offensive word though you don't consider it so). I'm with Ms. Tlaib. We're not gonna roll over. A bully whose used such grotesque and vile words needs a taste of his own medicine. He is so repulsive he needs to be called such strong words to make a statement.

One more thing, his own cabinet members whom he handpicked have called him moron, idiot, and other similar words. mofo is no different.

While I'll stand firm with my opinion and will be interested to see how she course corrects.

the past couple days. She's being her authentic self. I applaud her for it. Best we agree to disagree. But Ms. Tlaib's comments are in no way offensive, except to the Idiot-in-chief himself. This disgusting man called African nations sh!thole countries, yet he took offense to being called out for what he is? What's freaking more offensive?!!

even if she said she's being her authentic self when asked within 24 hours of the gaffe. If not, she'll continue to provide fodder to the right that is of the shiny distraction material Trump loves. And if that's the case, I hope her political career is short as we don't need Trump-type tactics and outbursts. We need adults.

As for your assertion that her saying, "we're going to impeach the motherfucker" isn't offensive to but just one idiot, you are incorrect. It seems immature to me to look at our country's current divisiveness with all the high stakes and make a comment like that. Many people found it offensive and I'm not talking about the word "motherfucker" here.

In case you weren't aware:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/fewer-support-impeaching-trump-poll-shows

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/politics/trump-impeachment/index.html

While 80% of Dems want him gone, the independents in this country aren't on board (yet). The Repubs aren't either (duh). So, proceeding as Speaker Pelosi suggests, with facts and measured consideration, is how to do it. Not yelling for his impeachment the very day the dems take back the house.

is cautioning everyone to move deliberately and carefully in order to build the support they need to achieve the actual goal.

russian bots and right wing sympathizers are clucking and cackling up a storm!

...the more they 'cackle' the more they reveal their fear.

Mueller is coming.

all motherfuckers immediately! No need for such gross comparisons.

And any faux outrage by the pussy grabber enablers in the right is pure bullshit!! The MAGAt's gotta be the biggest snowflakes on the planet!!

I like to see some fire in our new Reps. But I also appreciate the fact Pelosi and company are making sure the investigation takes place and the facts come out before we impeach the MF'er!!

trade wars, and a government shutdown of a racist border wall.

But yeah, it's important that we walk in eggshells lest we piss of the alt-right deplorables.

It's shit talking from someone who's been there five minutes and doesn't have the clout or power to influence anything yet.

It was a mistake. Not devastating or career-ending, but like a foot fault in tennis, it's going to reduce her effectiveness for a while as she has to be extra careful to make sure she doesn't double-fault and REALLY cause herself a problem.

was emotionally charged and not in the best of choices.

Our household speech [re: * and all reptilians] at times would shock our passing out parents while turning their faces and ears red, if they were still here! We pretty much curb our tongues when out in public.

There's other appropriate wording she could have chosen. Such as scum-suckers and like that.

on the first day of the new Congress. The Dems are trying to be very strategic (which is not the same as slow or weak) in how they approach this and it's very important that it's clear they're building a case and not just going after Trump for political reasons (which, even though WE know better, is a concern for the people they need to get on board with impeachment and removal). She was off-message and distracted attention from the larger agenda.

I'm sure she learned an important lesson - she's in the big league now and can't just blurt out whatever she wants whenever and wherever she wants, even when it makes her most ardent supporters roar with approval

A multitude personally desire *'s scummy being ejected from We the People's White House/Oval Office like from forever, but in a methodical way assuring a fail-safe case.

aren't demanding that she apologize to Trump!

...I wish I'd said that first.

That's 'daughter-fucker'...

...people seeking help.

I'll keep my energy towards the greater threat to America

Kind of "employee at the Christmas party" stupid.

They crucified Dean for an exuberant yell. I won't give her a pass. She knows better.

Oh well. It will be the lead on Sunday.

...Trump revealed to be a motherfucker.

News at 11.

She needs to apologize. Not to the president, but to all the Democratic party and it's constituents for all the hard work they have been doing to present a sober, serious front in opposition to trump based on the rule of law.

...as if calling Trump a motherfucker isn't 'sober and serious.'

She's unapologetic about it, so I would guess she's serious about her view, as well (sober, because she doesn't drink alcohol).

female journalists, his detractors, his opponents, women, minorities, LGBTQ, and whomever else he chooses?
Stop telling her to apologize. She has a right to vent her anger like the rest of us. I'm usually not one who chooses such choice words, but in this case i wholeheartedly endorse Ms. Tlaib for speaking her mind. She speaks for many of us.

has already gotten people killed, is already fracturing the economy and will, if unchecked, kill even more folks? It's happening right out in the open and the people/politicians backing this shit continue to do so. I think the time for 100% decorum is over. These people are so foul and corrupt that there is no amount of flowery language that will convince them not to do the ugly they are so determined to do.

Not saying you need to go out there calling them motherfuckers all the time, but every once in a blue moon isn't going to make a lick bit of difference except to folks that are "MORE" ok with the stuff Republicans are up to. Anybody that's going to shy away from Democrats or Tlaib because of that is somebody that wasn't completely with us anyway.

But she's no prize.

Specifically (while being a bit coy about it) she called for the ethnic cleansing of Jewish people from Israel.

I'm not overly keen to support people who want half of my small and scattered tribe dead.

Nor should they have any say or future in the Democratic Party.

So you can go look.

But I will just note that J Street (the very liberal, pro-Palestinian, Jewish organization) pulled it support from her because she proposes a "one state" solution with the Palestinians in charge over Israel -- and given the Palestinian charter states that all Jews must be killed or expelled from Israel -- only the daft don't know what she meant.

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-j-street-withdraws-support-for-rashida-tlaib-1.6387971

Note also Haaretz is a very liberal news source.

She also happily shares the stage with antisemitic activists who say things like "Jews have hypnotized America" (a paraphrase).

Antisemitism is a disease that infects both the right and the left. We should not tolerate such hate simply because she has a "D" next to her name.

representatives.

The so-called one-state solution is code for the destruction for Israel.

and while it may be difficult for some to acknowledge what you reference, it is what it is.

But we've got two representatives who wants Jews to die for being Jewish.

That's two too many.

Nancy Pelosi needs to censure both, and the DNC needs to withdraw all support for the next election.

I'm proud at how the Women's March is pushing out the antisemitic "leaders" (although it should have happened faster).

The DNC itself needs to follow suit.

and it may not occur.

The Mueller report needs to be released, and the House investigations need to be done to determine if there are impeachable offenses.

The reality is impeachment is whatever the House of Representatives decides it to be, and Representative Tiaib I don't believe knows if the votes are their for impeachment.


Representative Nadler speaks for me, we will see what the Mueller report says, and where the investigation leads us, and then determine the appropriate action.

n/t

investigation and Mueller report leads, not shooting off at the mouth just because a sound bite to the base makes them feel good

And don't let it happen!

We can argue til the sun comes up about whether it was politic for her to say what she said, but I saw a fighting woman in there having a victory party, a brief moment of sheer joy.

... because talk like that will either give trump a stroke or a heart attack.