General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat's Wrong with AOC?
Ive been cautiously reserved in forming much of an opinion about her. Will she be a stone-thrower, bridge-builder, pot-stirrer, a me or a we?
I saw the video of her joyful dance... a video to promote Boston University.
Shes just a kid, she gets attention. Thinks shes special.
Yeah, I agree shes FAR TOO special.
Whats wrong with AOC is that theres not THIRTY MORE LIKE HER in Congress. Thirty more 20-somethings, so young people would be represented in Congress like other people. Congress can use some youthful energy and spark.
The young people saddled with college debt, watching the planet get sicker, graduating to find only low-paying jobs. The young people who lived through active shooter drills throughout their school years, who ate and breathed social media as the fifth basic food group, who will be living with the world that Congress shapes a lot longer than old-as-dirt people like me.
So yes, theres something wrong with AOC. She should not be alone. She needs thirty cohorts with her in Congress.
13.5% of population is between 20 and 30. And 13.5% of 435 representatives is 58 people. Age and experience should count for something, put a little wisdom and extra knowledge and life experience into a legislative body, sure. But as any well-run corporation knows, diversity brings strength and deepens debate. One voice engages and awakens others.
Im cautiously optimistic. Fingers crossed that she turns out to be a steady, shining star. If so, we could use whole constellations.
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)the philosophy of "take from the rich and give to the poor"
which is anathema to them because the current system takes from the poor and gives to the rich.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)makes the decision to hang up her gavel.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)They are giving her free publicity the same way tRump got free publicity in his run for president.
Careful, con-men. You are giving OC the level of name recognition that makes winning Presidential candidates. (Note: I don't favor her as one & she needs years before she even thinks of a run.)
Careful, con-men. In trying to distract from tRump's loss in 2018 & tRump's wall catastrophe & the Trump Slump in the markets, you are digging your own grave.
Careful, con-men. Your con games are running out.
watoos
(7,142 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)Cosmocat
(14,562 posts)Hispanic
Female
Young and outspoken
PURE GOLD for Rush and all the other right wing hate mongers to spent multiple segments of their brain washing sessions on.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,365 posts)that all liberals want a system that encompasses "Wealth Redistribution".
Yeah, just like you said, we ALREADY HAVE THAT SYSTEM!
It just works in favor of the rich, that's all.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)PeeJ52
(1,588 posts)The 40's (after the war), 50's, and 60's were the highest and most progressive taxes in our history and also the most prosperous for our nation as a whole. Everyone prospered. Even the rich!!! Even General Motors!!! Even General Electric!!! I'm with the Republicans and Fox News... We need to get back to the Good Old Days!!! Without all the racism and sexism and homophobia of course.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,365 posts)was that there were higher levels on corporations, but more incentives for them to re-invest in their own companies. Instead of being rewarded from a tax perspective for opening a plant offshore, they were rewarded when they opened one here.
Now I may have that totally wrong, but your point stands.
It seems that ever since Reagan lowered the top marginal rate the way he did, that was the point when the wealth gap started to grow larger and the middle class began to stagnate, income wise.
calimary
(81,197 posts)Hit the bullseye!
We ALREADY HAVE income redistribution! Its just going the wrong way.
Or, maybe what Jesus REALLY meant to say was when I was rich, you gave Me more money... or its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a poor homeless person to get into Heaven...
Or... wait, dont tell me... you know that story about Jesus and the rich young man? That rich young man is ACTUALLY the guy Jesus welcomed as one of the new Apostles, and then anointed as the first Pope!
Roy Rolling
(6,911 posts)Warren Buffet famously said, there IS a class war, and the wealthy have won".
It's a question of honesty, not facts.
KPN
(15,642 posts)over the past 40 years. They already have it and it is now assets, not income. A balance wealth distribution can never be recovered or restored by more progressive or even aggressively progressive income taxes alone. So, yeah, they have won the war and are still squeezing every stone for all the wealth they can amass.
That's why we need people like AOC, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Anyone who doesn't recognize this is either: ignorant and too young to know the difference (having never experienced anything different), comfortable and therefore complacent (i.e., not unhappy with the present economic structure), indoctrinated by and with neoliberal bull-pucky, simply selfish/greedy, sociopathically greedy, or an Ayn Rand'er. Unfortunately, some of these still call themselves Democrats in my view.
lostnfound
(16,170 posts)Nicely put.
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)The current system take from nearly EVERYONE and gives to the rich
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)Lochloosa
(16,062 posts)I've been disappointed before. Comes with being a Democrat.
She's a refreshing change. I'm liking what I'm seeing from our younger up and comers. Beto is another one.
mrsv
(209 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)bearsfootball516
(6,376 posts)Thus, Republicans hate everything about her.
UpInArms
(51,280 posts)And tough as nails ...
Everything I admire ...
grantcart
(53,061 posts)lark
(23,083 posts)WE do need a whole constellation of young shining stars in congress.
TruckFump
(5,812 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,989 posts)Simple reason: her ideas might just become popular, which is different, and more sustainable than populism!
watoos
(7,142 posts)Another way of saying what you said, she is one of the few on the left who has the ability to change the right wing narratives, that's what scares Republicans, that's why they got rid of Al Franken.
Just think what Democrats could do if the M$M were behind them? That's what scares Republicans.
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)political arena to run. I love the photo with Cortez and the others with Barbara Lee in the center!
Barbara Lee 2020 is one of my hopes for our future.
The GOP fear Cortez b/c she will consistently push policies that will help the people of this country, not enable the new gilded age.They fear those policies will continue to catch on and therefore she must be maligned.
Over 200 members voted for Nancy Pelosi today, she wrote. Yet the GOP only booed one: me.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-gop-haters_us_5c2f16d4e4b05c88b707ec87
griloco
(832 posts)(Frightened old white people)
ananda
(28,856 posts)..
PaulX2
(2,032 posts)They are being exposed.
Republicans need to ask the billionaires they serve what they need to do. Every time they attack AOC her power grows. She's like a "good" Borg.
Suggesting government starts caring more about poor people. That message scares the hell out of Republicans.
That's the problem.
watoos
(7,142 posts)that are not majority positions in the Democratic party. What we need to not do is call that being a renegade, being disruptive, being a rebel. Democrats are a big tent party, we need to welcome different opinions and we simply need to call it productive debate. We can fight for our beliefs but in the end we need to compromise and come to a consensus opinion, shake hands, and walk away friends.
I agree with her no vote on PayGo, I think it will doom Medicare for all, but I accept the majority opinion and move on and will back the PayGo policy as AOC should do.
KPN
(15,642 posts)by that? Accepting it once it was adopted rather than speak out about how and why it is bad?
Celerity
(43,287 posts)Democrats shouldnt put themselves in a fiscal straitjacket.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/opinion/house-democrats-budget-deficit.html
On Thursday, the best House speaker of modern times reclaimed her gavel, replacing one of the worst. It has taken the news media a very long time to appreciate the greatness of Nancy Pelosi, who saved Social Security from privatization, then was instrumental in gaining health insurance for 20 million Americans. And the media are still having a hard time facing up to the phoniness of their darling Paul Ryan, who, by the way, left office with a 12 percent favorable rating. But I think the narrative is finally, grudgingly, catching up with reality.
Theres every reason to expect that Pelosi will once again be highly effective. But some progressive Democrats object to one of her initial moves and on the economics, and probably the politics, the critics are right. The issue in question is paygo, a rule requiring that increases in spending be matched by offsetting tax increases or cuts elsewhere.
You can argue that as a practical matter, the rule wont matter much if at all. On one side, paygo is the law, whether Democrats put it in their internal rules or not. On the other side, the law can fairly easily be waived, as happened after the G.O.P.s huge 2017 tax cut was enacted.
But adopting the rule was a signal of Democratic priorities a statement that the party is deeply concerned about budget deficits and willing to cramp its other goals to address that concern. Is that a signal the party should really be sending? The economics of crude, mechanical rules about budget deficits are clear: Theyre a really bad idea.
snip
more background
Why Are Democrats Backing a PAYGO Rule That Will Make Liberal Legislation Harder to Pass?
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/01/why-are-democrats-backing-a-paygo-rule-that-will-m.html
snip
You have likely never heard of PAYGO before. Hell, it's my job to pay attention to politics and I had rarely heard of it before this fight. There is simply no political constituency for this policy outside of the donor class. The billionaires who actually run this country love austerity politics, and they do everything they can to put roadblocks in front of any program that could redistribute some of their wealth.
PAYGO is a perfect example of the broken way the donor class thinks, and any party that considers itself truly liberal would never impose such an arduous ruleespecially during a time where we need to make major investments in health care, our economy and in the fight against climate change. The simple fact of the matter is that if we have to pay for the entire fight against climate change up front, then we will lose the battle against the apocalypse.
But how arduous is PAYGO, really? Here's the central problem with figuring out what is going on: Congress can (and has) change or ignore rules at whim. Say that the Green New Deal came up for a vote in the House, Nancy Pelosi could include a provision in the bill that waives the PAYGO rule, and this entire fight would recede into the background. This is likely why Ilhan Omar is backing the rules package, and what she means when she said she received assurances that PAYGO will not be used to stop progressive legislation.
But that still doesn't answer the question of why we need PAYGO in the first place. Why are Democrats seemingly voting to constrain their policy before it has even began? Nancy Pelosi's deputy Chief of Staff explained their position.
Link to tweet
The problem is that there is both a PAYGO rule and a PAYGO law. The PAYGO law was passed in 2010 under Pelosi's speakership, and it requires tax cuts and mandatory spending increases to offset any hit to the deficit from a bill that passes. The PAYGO rule is a mechanism in the House that falls along the same lines, but because it is not law, it is less of an obstacle. It seems to be the case that if you bypass the rule, you can bypass the law, but without the rule, you must adhere to the law.
snip
The bad economics of PAYGO swamp any strategic gain from adopting it
https://www.epi.org/blog/the-bad-economics-of-paygo-swamp-any-strategic-gain-from-adopting-it/
The obscure Congressional budget rule known as PAYGO (pay as you go) has burst into the news lately. A PAYGO rule means that any tax cut or spending increase passed into law needs to be offset in the same spending cycle with tax increases or spending cuts elsewhere in the budget. Incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has indicated that the House of Representatives will abide by PAYGO in the next Congress, and this decision has sparked much controversy.
Many Washington insiders assert forcefully that committing to PAYGO rules in the House for the next Congress is good politics. The argument is that it assuages fears of politicians who believe they must make public commitments to lower deficits to avoid being punished by voters who care deeply about this issue. If voters do indeed have strong preferences for reducing deficits, then policymakerseven those who want to use fiscal policy to reduce inequality by expanding public spending and investmentmust first commit to PAYGO to convince these voters that budget measures can both reduce inequality and be fiscally responsible.
The strength of evidence supporting this political claim is debatable. Whats less debatable is that PAYGO really has hindered progressive policymaking in the not-so-recent past. For example, it was commitments to adhere to PAYGO that led to the Affordable Care Act (ACA) having underpowered subsidies for purchasing insurance and, even more importantly, having a long lag in implementation; the law passed in January 2010 yet the exchanges with subsidies only were up and running by 2014. This implementation lag meant that the ACAs benefits were not as sunk into Americans economic lives by the time a hostile Republican Congress and administration began launching attacks on it following the 2016 elections. It is a real testament to how much better the ACA made life for Americans that it has been stubbornly resistant to these attacks. But it would have been helpful to have a couple more years to have it running smoothly, but that didnt happen largely because the ACAs architects wanted to meet PAYGO rules over the 10-year budget window.
Even more fundamentally, it is terrible economics to view federal budget deficits as always and everywhere bad. Making good policy in the future will require that voters be educated on this front. Why not start now? After all, our failure as a society to understand the economics of deficits and debt greatly contributed to the destructive impact of the Great Recession of 200809. The stakes of allowing history to repeat itself are high enough that we should take the time to quickly recap the history of how costly irrational deficit-phobia has been.
snip
lostnfound
(16,170 posts)There may be times when having that weight on the left will be helpful in counterbalancing the RW spin
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)not necessarily majority of dems in congress. I have yet to hear about any position shes taken that is not shared by vast majority of dem voters. She is young and fearless and is not interested in compromising on issues she got elected for unlike many other politicians. It is safe to say that bipartisanship has failed big time and caused our nation enormous harm. Imagine if all dems never compramise one bit with gop but rather win over more and more people forcing gop to change their positions instead. Because we are the party of 99% and gop is the party of donor class. They have won the war so the only way forward for us is political revolution. That means the moment we gain majority in senate and the presidency; on day one dems must change the rules in congress to pass legislation protecting 99% with 50 votes + vice president. Including expanding SC to 11 justices to compensate for two appoitments (gorsuch and kavanaugh) that were appointed by a president who committed treason. On day one dems could enact sweeping tax, healthcare and environmental legislations. I know AOC would do all of the above w/o blinking but not so sure about old timers. I am not sure Biden will be wiling to fight for 99% w/o compramise.
bitterross
(4,066 posts)LOL, I thought I was going to have to be pissed off given your OP title. But you got me!
Thanks for saying what I think too.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)BlueJac
(7,838 posts)I love it.
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)She's got my vote.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)she's still dancing like there IS a tomorrow. Good to see a human being in Congress.
Aviation Pro
(12,143 posts)Shes going through a learning curve.
And shes the woman that laughed at all those small-dicked Republicants.
Silver1
(721 posts)Tricky title, great summary! I believe you are 100% right.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)The Republicans have their action plan down. They dehumanize women--and unfortunately it works: Clinton, Pelosi, Waters, and now AOC.
Take for example the Utah Democrat who ran by attacking Pelosi--and won (Ben McAdams).
Clinton lost due to the decades of attacks on her, that eventually became truth in the eyes of the citizens from all sides of the isle.
I like the way AOC is fighting back. We citizens need to band together to stop these attacks. I am not sure how, shout from the rooftops?
MaryMagdaline
(6,853 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)brooklynite
(94,489 posts)From the 1st District of Iowa.
She may not be your preferred choice since she brings a measure of maturity to the job, coming as she does from a competetive House seat rather than an absolutely safe Democratic district.
lostnfound
(16,170 posts)👍
murielm99
(30,730 posts)I also like like the two people who flipped seats in a formerly red area of Illinois.
We are winning.
theaocp
(4,235 posts)womanofthehills
(8,690 posts)and insinuate that Abby is more mature then "the little girl". I think all the young Dem women are great. It's not a competition?
Autumn
(45,042 posts)than an absolutely safe Democratic district she might become a topic of conversation. Rather than burying a post about her in a thread about AOC.
If you really want DUers to learn about her.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)I support Nancy Pelosi, and I think (hope) she can use the truth of AOCs dissents to build policy FOR the people.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Im not a democratic socialist. Im a pro-regulation capitalist.
That said 1 of her is just fine. And she seems like a cool person.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Even social democracies have pro regulation capitalism as their base.
Nothing scares me about AOC, she will learn and adapt. Kirsten Semena was once a far left green, but now is a centrist, she learned how to represent her state. AOC comes from a much more liberal state, I would expect her to stay roughly where she is now, but become smoother as she learns how government works.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)To be fair
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I am ok with a social democracy that has a high marginal tax rate on gross profits, unless companies agree to reinvest a specific part of that gross profit in the country where it was generated, in the case of big and medium sized companies that would mean that the US gets a lot more tax revenue, one way or another, than it gets now.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)You know it lostnfound!!
nolabear
(41,959 posts)AOC, Sinema, Beto, all the younger up and comers who let those who cling desperately to the familiar-even the poisonous, provincial, xenophobic familiar-know their time is over. The country is going to change and they cant change with it. And theyre afraid theyll be treated by the young and diverse leaders just the way theyve treated them.