I had seen the short videos that show the ongoing confrontation and I wondered what the larger context was. This helps.

Looks like the Black Israelites did indeed verbally taunt the boys from Covington pretty unmercifully before, during and after the time that the more famous video of the interaction of Phillips and the boys took place. They'd taunted the Native Americans too, beforehand. This would corroborate the claim of the mother of the teenager who did the staredown on Phillips, who said the boys were taunted by those she called "Black Muslims."

When Phillips and the other Native Americans go by at 1:13, the boys begin mocking them. I don't hear any chants of "Build the Wall," but they do perform the tomahawk chop song frequently hummed at Florida State football games. They also do mock dances to the song Phillips and his retinue are singing. The Black Israelites recognize what is going on as mockery of the Native Americans. But they also think Phillips is calming the crowd of high schoolers down.

The Israelites keep up a pretty insulting patter throughout, even accusing the boys of being future school shooters. The drums continue till about 1:21.

Among other things.

...they are horrible in their own right. Sick clowns sowing seeds of hatred.

But they were not like 'marching' with Nathan Phillips. Totally separate group demonstrating in the public square.

If these kids were just jeering the BI, nobody probably would've said shit.

F-the BI. Although they're grown people, with Freedom of Speech, so ...

What the kids did to Phillips is a separate thing, far more aggressive, and much closer to criminal.

But I think we would be just as pissed if all we had was verbal harassment from the CC guys.

But - Its all in the same family of "hate" - and I think we can condemn the BI guys without resorting to violating their civil rights.

Im tend to think the BI protesters are probably regulars - and not just in town for one event.

I could easily believe all the marches this day were sabotaged by disruptors and agitators...

there were 4 of them. Easy to ignore.

If so, do you have any thoughts on what they were saying and how they were acting?

I have satellite and can't download videos very well at all.

So incredibly ignorant.

Laughing and walking away is the best action there.i

Hatred and bigotry needs to be challenged.

I’d treat them the way I’d treat the Klan.

They want attention. They want confrontation.

They’re not worth the energy.

to people like that. When you see crazy, you walk to the other side of the street, you don't invite it in!

So true.

So true too!

their right to Free Speech in the worst imaginable way. But it is their right, and I assume you would be right alongside me in fighting for that right if it were threatened.

What the Black Israelites are NOT are 50 near-men who surround an elderly man, block his escape, scream at him and torment him and mock him because he is not white and he is calling for peace.

surrounded and mocked Mr. Philips, it does not change the events shown here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211697954

Don't be giving me the bullshit story that they were in any way provoked to this behavior. They are surrounding and intimidating and tormenting this good man because he is not white.

Hitler Youth.

Especially since they were adults being verbally abusive towards children.

Because they conflicted with another minority group before they did this does not change the fact they did this.

They instigated this, they surrounded that man and tormented him because he was not white.

You can try to defend this Hitler Youth behavior, and it is no surprise you are doing so, but there is no defense for it.

THIS video tells the story. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211697954

Like why are Black Israelites marching with Catholic Boys?

Was that in the Covington Brochure for the trip?

Nobody is claiming this isnt racism and bigotry...that exists - but how it came to be on display this way is another question.

They were harassing them. Likely they were behaving similarly to other groups as well.

in for healthcare that they are murderers.

Say your group is entirely white and there is a non-white group across the street shouting slurs - about non-whites - at you.

Does that give you and your group the right to stop a passerby on your side of the street, an old man, surround him and get in his face and taunt him and shout your own racial slurs at him? That "context" changes anything?

Seriously? This is the argument we are making?

"Gosh! All we wanted to do was subjugate women and there was a group there who was really mean to us, so we HAD to assault and torment an old man. We weren't looking for any trouble, it just happened! It's not our fault!"

So what?! - this is NOT that context.

This was a political demonstration - not "passersby"

It's right there on video.

Those folks ought to be named and shamed for their hateful behavior.

"Hatred and bigotry needs to be challenged."







Off your game, eh?

So why can't you condemn the Black Israelites behavior?

And pretty ironic...

and 50 near-men surrounding an old man who is minding his own business and tormenting him?

Yes, those guys were assholes. Yes, what they were saying was idiocy. But they did not approach the boys. The boys approached them. The boys came to them. And they did not surround any old men, block their escape and scream at them because they were not white.

OK, if you need to hear it, what the Black Israelites were doing was bullshit and racist and a sad by-product of our rights to Freedom of Speech.

But do you seriously not see the difference between what they were doing and what the Covington Catholic Hitler Youth did?

Really?

Yes they were exercising their right to free speech. That doesn't make it immune from criticism.

that their exercise of Freedom of Speech, however disgusting to us, is in any way comparable to what the boys did to that man, or that it in any way mitigates the horror of what those boys did.

Oddly, they would agree with the Magas on many things; gays and maybe abortion.

I had to laugh when the BI-er yelled at the Catholics for worshipping Mary, when they should worship the Lord. Let's revisit that schism - Catholic and Protestant!

If not then who cares what the assholes were doing before Phillips came into the picture

Even before looking.

Sid

... isles sites.

Thanks.

n/t

How about not jumping to that conclusion about those of us trying to fully understand what went on.

Don't be a jackass.

Black Israelites were doing was in any way comparable to surrounding an old man who was minding his own business, blocking his escape, and tormenting him.

The Black Israelites were exercising Freedom of Speech. I hate what they were saying, and it was bullshit. But it was speech.

What those boys did was assault.

Don't you be a jackass. Don't fall for the arguments of those who want to compare the two actions as if one in any way mitigates the other.

"You can try to defend this Hitler Youth behavior, and it is no surprise you are doing so, but there is no defense for it."

+1000 buddy ...

That would be crazy, right?

I just posted F-The-BI.

And yeah, that would be crazy.

I'm not watch this crap, but given they're the BLACK Israelites, why were they shouting the N-Word at HS kids? Was it one of those 'why are you black's hanging out with those whites? don't you know you're just an n-word to them?' type of deal? That's the only thing would make sense, given their schtick.

If the kids had surrounded the BI and done their crap towards them, I wouldn't have said anything bad about them for doing so. But I guess 5 grown Blacks were too intimidating, so they went and surrounded and cajoled a tiny old native american VETERAN peacefully banging his drum and chanting prayers ... doing so for a purpose I'm sure they didn't even understand.

This country for generations. I don't care if the Black Israelites kicked the boys in their nuts, it doesn't give them a poetic license to harass that native man.

that free speech should be forbidden if we find it abhorrent? Because all those 5 guys with the microphone were doing was speaking.

Its a far cry from what the 50 Hitler Youth did to Mr. Phillips.

Those native men had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Black Israelites. I saw a bunch of chickenshit over privilege white young me too scared to confront the black Israelites so they took their frustrated asses put on some old nativeam minding his own business.

You are coming very close to spreading right wing talking points because what you are trying to imply happened did NOT happen.

Every. Damn. Time.

staring down the Native American guy.

With the Maga hats, they are showing what their attitude is.

What a country.

Hopefully, they will.

an elderly man, blocking his escape, mocking him, screaming at him and tormenting him.

You seem to think the asinine rants by the 5 idiots who identify themselves as Black Israelites, rants that were fully protected under our Right to Free Speech, drove those 50 near-men to abuse Mr. Phillips. Is that your position?

I see the BIs and the MAGAs as one and the same...haters - both predisposed to hate - for all kinds of reasons.

Are you saying that the MAGAs were absolutely unprovoked by the BI ranting???

Nobody is trying to justify the MAGAs actions.

and ignorant and vile, but it was speech and it was their right. They stood on a thoroughfare and spewed hate. They accosted no one.

The other group was 50 near men who surrounded an elderly man, prevented him from getting away from them, then proceeded to taunt him, scream at him, intimidate him, and mock him. All the while keeping him tightly surrounded and not letting him leave.

Do you really think they were the same?

Here is a video from a different angle: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211697954

Do you still think the two groups were the same?

Threats of violence ARE a higher level of hate-based engagement - but you HAVE TO LUMP THEM ALL TOGETHER...

Otherwise you are letting 5 of the haters off the hook. There is no "what about" here.

They are all haters - and it all comes from the same place. No surprise they all found themselves in the same locale.

Might want to reexamine the "whatabout" thing...

I think it's you that needs to reexamine the meaning, no offense ...

a difference between what the two groups did. I think you are saying that to see that difference lets the 5 guys exercising their free speech off the hook. And that YOU HAVE TO LUMP THEM ALL TOGETHER.

Is that what you are saying? If so, no. We are critical thinkers and we do not HAVE TO LUMP THEM ALL TOGETHER. We can see where one is a threatening assault on an elderly man and the other is free speech, even though we do not like that speech.

But I doubt you can be convinced that 5 guys spewing bile in a thoroughfare is not the same as 50 people surrounding an old guy so they can keep him in one place while they torment him and insult him and intimidate him. I doubt you can be convinced, so I won't try to convince you.

You be you.

And you are pushing exceptions and differences - "what abouts"

Constitution, and a mob of 50 essentially imprisoning an elderly man, not letting him get away, so they can scream at him, taunt him, intimidate him and mock him.

You've said it over and over...

Hateful Free Speech = OK

Mob Captivity = Not OK

What about a blanket condemnation? - we all love free speech and all - but we can defend those nit wits!

or wrong that they are defended?

And yes. Hateful free speech is OK and mob captivity is not OK. Glad you understand. It's what our Constitution says.

Thanks for your help!!!

You don't want us to talk about them? That seems to be letting them "off the hook?"

I've had several posts removed over this...and I will not let them off the hook!

death to protect their right to speak those words. I have not refrained in any way from discussing them, nor from stating how much I hate the things they had to say. What else do you want?

What hook is it you want to put them on? What else is it you want to happen to them? Do you want them arrested for their words?

Im way more interested in the logistics and timing of this weekend - big picture stuff...

mob captivity and we have to lump them together. That equates free speech with something much worse. That is, by its nature, anti free speech.

Hate is hate - I don't need qualifiers.

OK?

Link to tweet

The first videos were bad enough. Now it turns out that these privileged white kids wearing MAGA hats also got into a shouting match with other people before they surrounded and harassed an elderly man.

This looks worse and worse for CovCath.

If so, what did you think of what the Black Israelites were saying to the students (and to the Native Americans)?

There are numerous hate groups in the U.S. I disagree with most of what they all say.

Your whataboutism is ridiculous.

As a parent, I taught my kids that they are responsible for their own behavior. People don't get a pass to attach somebody just because somebody else attacked them first. And what did the adults who chaperoned this group expect to happen, when they had their school group wander around D.C. wearing Make America Great Again hats? They were hoping that somebody would say something so that they could posture as victims.

Bunch of white supremacist trolls. They got caught on video.

NOtice how the poster, in their responses in the thread, has nothing negative to say about the young fascists from Covington? It’s all about ancillary factors not the central issue. That’s by design.

Here is how I would summarize the major movements.

The small Black Hebrew group (I think that is the correct term) are speaking in front of the Lincoln Memorial as is their right, but they clearly antagonize anyone who engages them including the Native Americans who are assembling nearby and even other Black citizens. Such is life in a free society. Most people walk away from them.

The Covington Catholic High Schoolers start to congregate around the Black Hebrew group from a respectable distance to listen and they lay into the students just as antagonistically as anyone else who came by (e.g., "pasty ass crackers", etc)

The Black Hebrew group focuses on the Covington Catholic High Schoolers and they respond in turn. Its ugly mockery and name calling all around. The high schoolers start to get close to the Black Hebrew group but are told to step back and they do. The mutual antagonism continues.

At some point, a few from the Native America group led by Elder Nathan Phillips brings their song to the high school group. It seems clear that he wants to get in between the two groups and approaches the high schoolers. He gets close (up the 4 feet) but slowly and not aggressively. If he merely wanted to go up the stairs, there was plenty of room to the right of the boys.

Then the high schoolers circle Elder Phillips and mock him. Getting much closer to him and the smirker gets right in his face. I didn't see any physical contact by anyone, but the video is a limited view.

That's how I would call it. The students need to be held accountable for their behavior toward Mr. Phillips. The Black Hebrew group says terrible things about everyone, but they stay in their physical spot. Anyone, and most do, except the high schoolers, remove themselves from the insults.

eta: To be clear to all who read my reply, I don't find the three groups equal in culpability. The Black Hebrew group says despicable things and if anyone wants to complain to their leaders or employers so be it, but they were just being them. The High Schoolers were not doing them. They were acting contradictory to their school's stated values and rules. The Native Americans acted peacefully, but they did approach the high schoolers. I had previously thought the high schoolers had approached the Native American group. The Native Americans did nothing wrong. There was no call for the high schoolers to circle and mock the Elder Phillips.

Thanks for posting it.

giving an objective synopsis. I really appreciate the objectivity....we need more of it!

all sorts of things. Often, there's no relationship between the separate groups exercising their first amendment rights.

DC is home to all sorts of public demonstrations in public places. Most major cities have such places where people with an enormous range of opinions assemble to state their case.

What this small group was doing had nothing to do with either the March for Life crowd or the Native American drummers. They were all just in the same large open area, engaging in whatever free speech event they were involved with.

It seems to me that some people on DU are not familiar with such places and what goes on in them. You don't see this sort of thing in small or mid-sized cities. They're far more common in major cities, though. It happens every weekend, pretty much.

I would encourage you to watch the full video linked in the OP.

Sure they're racist cuz their wearing MAGA hats.

If they found the other group annoying, they should have stood at the top of the memorial. They chose to engage.

I don't think a trip to a RTL march is an age appropriate cross country trip for an all boys Catholic school.

I bet most of them just went because it was a "get out of town" event. This isn't like most cross country trips. My hubby has chaperoned numerous trips to DisneyWorld and NYC for drama/band etc. These trips are enriching to the students. But a RTL march?

I doubt if their teachers schooled them about free speech in DC prior to this trip.

Thanks for making it.

Can you summarize?

Hopefully everyone will take the time to watch it.

to the black guys narrating that part of it, was to calm the situation down. Then the boys surrounded Phillips. That is quite the mob that circles him, yelling at him, taunting him, intimidating him, mocking him. It looks pretty hateful to me.

I assume that the headline of your post means you did not watch the video I posted. What is in there may be what you are missing.

Your summary is solid (as has been the summary of others who have watched the whole thing).

this shows the entirety of the situation and it seems most people have seen only the shorter video.

peace