I watched the entire thing. The kids were riled up and improperly chaperoned, Phillips did diffuse the situation, the young men were assholes.

What it boils down to is a general lack of respect by the white kids and the Black Israelites and shifted by the white kids to the Phillips group by idiot, racist white kids.

These types are proud of their displays of disrespect, to them it's a form of weenie waving.

They call themselves Black (Hebrew) Israelites ... although their 'Israeli' and/or 'Hebrew' heritage is in serious doubt, I think we should either call them what they call themselves, or just call them 'assholes' ... rather than interject Palestinians into it (unless you have some good reason to believe they actually are Palestinian?)

They are smart enough to not get arrested

immediately. It was an error in typing. Sorry if it got you upset.

I wasn't 'upset' ... but I figured someone might be

I was truly hoping I could make the edit before any one saw it.

I try to keep my view regarding the Israeli/Palestinian issues to my self. I have relative on one side and know people from both sides. Not worth arguing in my environment.

the old time weenie measuring.

but after seeing the short clip and reading the kid's and Nathan Phillips' statements, seems to me that the obvious way the kids could have avoided the whole mess was to simply walk away instead of trading insults with the Black Israelite group. But they weren't mature enough to do that and instead had to get into a dick-waving contest.

In one interview with Nathan Phillips I think he said that there were passing through his groups' permitted area and that was also cause for his action.

your very solid, unemotional description of what you saw.

Neither are a lot of 'adults.'

All of 'em should simply come out. Anyone who screams the anti-gay "f" word in public is announcing, not denouncing...

The students had split up into splinter groups and were going here and there. Bad idea...where are their chaperones??

They were to meet at the Lincoln Memorial at 4:30 so they could board their buses. So it was kinda hard to leave the general vicinity of the Black Hebrews.

One of their teachers showed up and told them to chant their school song as a way of ignoring the Black Hebrews or drown them out or counteract them. To me it didn't sound like a school spirit song, but more like those loud annoying chants they have at football games. These types of chants are based on what white people perceive as Native American war chants. I blame the teacher for this.

The teacher should have moved the students up the memorial and should have just told the students, "These protesters (Black Hebrews) are kinda kooky, just ignore them".

I don't see how they can place the blame for the incident on anyone but themselves; they chose to get into an insult contest with a few annoying but harmless oddballs, apparently encouraged by a teacher who should have known better.

So 100 or so kids get into an incident because one mentally ill guy is raging.

Thank you.

There's so much more context to this entire confrontation that simply analyzing the videos is helpful but incomplete.

You can't begin to decipher what happens here until you know about those young men, their educations, their families, their sense of privilege or lack thereof, the atmosphere of the "Pro-Life" activities they just attended, their (mis)understanding of Native cultures, etc.

For anyone, such as Sandmann's parents, to simply write that "them there black people started it," is not looking at the larger picture that's painted by our shared and often shameful history.

saying all media gets it wrong and tens of millions will believe him, calling the drum a "war drum" and mocking nathan phillips.....

in much of america limbaugh fills in the context

as in just now he praised the kids for doing nothing wrong and being model citizens, the kind of kids all americans should want their kids to be like - white

he says this with his mocking voice whenever he referred to nathan phillips - "ancient indian hero" etc

from a quick sonix.ai transcription

attacking 'liberal' media

: using a moking voice, pretending to be the 'liberal' media "Oh even if we got the original story wrong we can still see that this kid is a racist bigot white supremacist" ---- ----they've (media) got to do damage control somehow in the modern era. all this began with the Trayvon Martin story. That whole incident and it's just continued to descend.

everybody has seen the kid standing there and he's smiling as this scrawny aging an elderly Indian Vietnam War vet is pounding on his war drum and there were stories about how the kid was smirking and was a smart ass and was taunting and his real crime was that he was white and his second real crime was that he was wearing a Make America Great Again Red Cap

well these kids or models of composure they were models of restraint they were polite they were respectful they were everything that never Trumpers say Trump is, everything that we need in leadership and they're being thrown overboard and they're the ones who deserve the accolades and his whole encountered they're the ones who were well-mannered they're the ones we hope become future leaders in this country not this ragtag bunch of protesters surrounding him they were subjected I don't know how many people know this these teenagers were subjected to some of the most vile racist homophobic verbal abuse that you can imagine they were called the F word you know slang for homosexual they were called murderers they were clever it was said they are what's wrong with life you should have been aborted because they were on a pro-

: These kids were the model of proper parenting. They behaved impeccably properly they were respectful.

: They were not confrontational. Everything they did was designed to lower the temperature of this entire thing. They didn't do one thing provocative and yet that's what the media is now trying to say oh that kid might not have done anything but look at his face.

and I've seen his main theme already on Facebook - the kid was polite and acted like the adult in that situation.

I'm not kidding either.

sacks of shit on 1500 radio stations will repeat that defense, and 88 universities will support at least 260 of the racist's stations

If it was the Black Israelites who were being more provocative, why didn't Mr. Phillips approach THEM in order to defuse the situation?

who were looking to get physical with the five antagonists, it was not going to end well. That and it was right in his permitted area. He is a man of peace so trying to shut down the testosterone infused melee that was formulating there was his objective. He got in between them so the mob wouldn't create a horrible scene, they could have walked away but chose to be confrontational.

Weenie waving is a priority for some.

As I said before, the one kid ripped his shirt off and they started doing chants. I think Nathan saw that they were kids and he thought they would enjoy the drumming and get side tracked. It seemed to work at first.

Also, I think he at first thought it was cool that the kids seemed to be enjoying the drumming. It's like at a restaurant when the mariachi players come to a table. If they seem to be enjoying the music the players feed on the positive reaction of those at the table, only they never expect the table to suddenly turn on you.

But I can't read minds so who knows for sure.

Black dudes were grown ass men. He took his drums between the groups. The boys were getting very loud and rambunctious—and appeared to have no supervision

For their future. And he probably thought it was more likely he could reach them. And his outreach seemed to work, at first.

inch beyond their (approximately) 10 x 10 space. The kids were watching them for over 1 hour and could clearly see this. (Picture Hyde Park or a crazy preacher on a soap box in front of City Hall). The kids, en masse, moved extremely close to the BI. The BI kept taunting them (picture Westboro Baptists/they are the same racist and homophobic a-holes as the Westboro Baptists, but equally self-disciplined by not moving an inch towards anyone)(the BI were also taunted by a skateboarder for over one-half hour who kept circling and circling and the BI never gave in to a physical threat)(total assholes, but very, very disciplined).

Phillips' group had endured their own constant taunting from the BI group. ("Don't be an Uncle Tom-a-hawk"/ 'you are slaves to the white man;" "you lost your country because you worship idols (totem poles) and not the one true God," etc., etc.). Despite this, the Native Americans perceived the movement and chanting of the Catholic kids as a threat. This is how they perceived it. The BI perceived Phillips' movement to the boys as having an instant calming effect. The leader of the BI kept saying, "he calmed those demons down," or words to that effect.

I have to give credence to 1. the BI who said AT THE TIME that Phillips calmed the boys down; 2. Phillips, who AT THE TIME, thought the boys were the greater threat (they were by now, a large number vs. 4 BI members); and 3. the young woman who said the boys were acting like a mob. These were all spontaneous impressions. The BI speaker was getting their goat. I believe (my opinion from watching the whole film, the lead Catholic boy took it out on Phillips).

Link to tweet

I could see that kind of shit MAYBE being considered "okay" even by a mainly-white school back in, say, the 80s (it wouldn't have been okay, actually, but you know what I mean: tolerated as some kind of boys-will-be-boys, all-in-fun, get-aggressions-out-safely, nobody-got-hurt kind of thing). But, wow, that should not be tolerated at all, especially now; no excuses. They are a pitiful lot.

===========

Did the black Israelites walk to the Covington group? Did the group walk to them? Did the group grow into a mob?

You see, if they were raised properly in the Catholic teaching, they would have avoided confrontation. They would have been more humble and avoided the Israelites.

They just shouted inflammatory stuff at people passing by. There was only about 4 of them, and only one of them was doing most of the talking/shouting. There's another one who kept saying "That's right!" but that's about it.

The boys seemed to be walking around when the Black Israelite starting mocking their MAGA hats and telling them Jesus was black. That really got a rise out of the boys and what appeared to be their male chaperon. That's what I could see from the Black Israelite's video, which is hard to sit through. They are sort of like the Westboro Baptist Church nuts. The Black Israelites said offensive, bigoted, homophobic, sexist, racist stuff to both the Native Americans and the boys. But they stayed in their little area and did not physically get in anyone's face.

Ranting nuts are a mainstay on the Mall and most big public spaces. The boys' chaperons should have prepared them for that. Also, by wearing MAGA hats, they were being intentionally provocative to everyone as they walked through the Mall. They were not there to "defuse" anything, contray to the Nick Sandmann's statement.

They've been doing this sort of thing for years and are good at rhetoric (even if their ideas are batshit insane). The chaperons dropped the ball on that one because they should have told the students in no uncertain terms do they engage with the carnival barkers of the Mall (even if they agreed with them or not). The MAGA hats, also, are pretty much a dumbass "hey I'm an asshole" thing and people know that, especially those who wear them.

The Covington students had broken into unchaperoned splinter groups and were supposed to meet at the Lincoln Memorial at 4:30. From that point they were supposed to board their buses home.

This is why the group grew.

Their teacher showed up and encouraged them to chant their school song as a way to deal with the Black Israelites To me it didn't sound like a school song. It sounded like football war chants, which coincidentally are based on white people's perception of Native American war chants. I blame this teacher for much of this. The teacher should have just directed them away from the Israelites.

I blame the teacher. It is obvious the Black Israelites are kooks and the only way to deal with them is to ignore them.

However, if the students were supposed to meet at the Lincoln Memorial at 4:30, I can't fault them for being there.

(Not sure how it works in DC)

They were loud.

The kids grew in numbers because they were supposed to meet at the Lincoln Memorial. I don't know if the kids went into the Black Israelites' space or not. But it looks like as the group grew they may have gotten in their space.

Some protest groups obtain a legal space. I'm not sure if the Black Israelites had a legal permit or they just had a "space" they had delineated.

I am having trouble rationalizing the two, because one is being encouraged to cause trouble, and the other is supposed to be teaching temperance.

The teachers know this.
The kids usually aren't very religious.

I attended an all male Catholic HS in Chicago (Gordon Tech) in the mid 1970s. This was not a prep school filled with wealthy kids.
Nearly every student came from blue collar homes. It was a combination college prep/trade and vocational school. athey put a lot of attention on math and science. Some guys went on to engineering, or architecture school. We had every shop imaginable -- auto, electric, carpentry, etc. There was a minimum of douche bag behavior from most of the guys, most of the time. There was an occasional fist fight. Nobody disrespected the teachers, especially the women who taught there. It wasn't an overly authoritarian environment, but there were rules.

I also never felt like there was much religion going on there, and I had attended public elementary schools. I was expecting a lot of Bible thumping, but it never happened much. Occasional Masses in the gym. We did learn the teachings of Jesus, but there was never any fire and brimstone.

Through sports and social activities, I crossed paths with people from the wealthier Catholic prep schools. There was an arrogance about those guys that was clear and noticeable and, laughable. These guys were already out of control frat boys in High School.

With the exception of one, but it is very small.

I appreciate the context and your take

I don't buy his "explanation" for a moment. That said, he's just a brainwashed kid.

he enjoyed the attention. IF he wanted to do something, he'd have been asking others to stop or holding out his arms around the mob. Nope, he sat like a smug little turd.

and the "MAGA" ballcaps among the crowd.

anyone who ever remembers this smirk and challenge from their teenage years knows in a microsecond it's a challenge / agression

that these people (with a very generous assist from people supposedly on our side) have become so good at diffusion, obfuscation and distraction that such an in-depth analysis and explanation of something that is as plain as day to the naked eye.

Today's story is no longer about the obviously obnoxious and racist behavior of these kids but about whether they are being unfairly maligned by people who can plainly see them behave like obnoxious racists.

This is how these people roll and they've gotten to be experts at it. But it's nothing new they and their progenitors have been perfecting this for centuries.

Perfect example: People actually blamed James Meredith for causing the death of racists who were killed during the campus riots protesting his admission to Ole Miss.

Another example - Dr. Ossian Sweet, who was arrested and charged (along with his wife, several family members and friends) with murder in the death of a member of a white mob that attacked his home after he moved into a previously all-white neighorhood.

The NAACP hired Clarence Darrow to reprepresent the defendants. In his summation, he noted that so many white eyewitnesses testified that there was no mob at Dr. Sweet's home that night, "they got enough witnesses to make a mob of itself in this case."

We're being gaslighted.

As a white woman, I am literally sick (as in feeling nauseated) of listening to white people make these excuses in public. I know what they're saying in private between themselves.

The kid's smirk says it all.

And at least one long-time DUer has outed themselves as a troll. No question remaining.

They always try to throw smoke and confuse everyone and because of Trump's divisive leadership nothing is learned or gained. They just use the situation to cause more division. It's really heartbreaking.

You keep me rooted!!

The Main Kid actually changed the mood of the crowd with his behavior ... towards the negative.

Link to tweet

That kid has obviously practiced that staredown a few times. Reminds me of "Pharmacy Dude", or Darren Kriss in the Versace murder series.

I’ve been trying to explain it to my husband and I just handed him this to read. He says thanks also.

were trying to defuse the situation which is total BS. Anyone wearing MAGA hats has already lost any argument of being sensible.

to pour on a fire.

Yeah, that was a very ugly thing. Racism IS ugly. ALWAYS.

Unfortunately those kids are now going to suffer the consequences of this one stupid act for at least a time. Maybe if one, or five, or ten actually learned something positive, actually listens to their own feelings and thinks how soiled they felt afterward (they had to), and then turns a new leaf...well something good might come from it.

But put that against Nathan's trauma of being exposed to this hate directed at him. He is a decorated Vietnam veteran and has had a life dedicated to love and spiritual growth. Who are these kids to hate him? Why? Makes me mad.

...controlling adult women's bodies and their reproductive freedom. The bigotry of this particular incident started there. Those children would have been better served if they were in class, ostensibly learning Jesus' teachings of love and acceptance of others. The school administration is culpable for the sneering and jeering, hate-filled monsters they are working to create.

Well done summary. Thank you!

Thanks so much for that summary. You saved a bunch of us some major stress..... .....Many of us already have more than enough stress from the constant barrage of Trumpian bullshit.

Those Kentucky kids should have had adult supervision from the school that in a normal world would have prevented this event. In addition to that, their chaperons should have been wise enough to not allow wearing any potentially inflammatory Trump gear, and particularly in consideration of that location with numerous protests.

That tells me that the school apparently openly sanctions right-wing propaganda, and they are willing to endanger kids safety to advertise their political views and lack of wisdom.

..........

I watched the whole video as well as several individual videos on Sunday, once I was given the link to the full video by a fellow DUer. That video provides context missing in the shorter video posts, but the fact remains that the Cov-Cath students did escalate in their behavior. The young man who invaded Mr. Phillip's personal space with his facial expression was in aggressive mode. I have been trained and worked as a behavior analyst for a number of years, and have worked with kids and adults displaying the behaviors seen in these clips. When a person starts displaying these behaviors, they become an antecedent to escalation to violence. These kids were at the very least, disrespectful.

I for one still want to know where their chaperones were while this was going on!

Of these kids are all responsible for poisoning their minds. Having said that - all these kids are old enough to know right from wrong. The fact that this unholy cabal is trying to spin the unspinable speaks volumes. There are no excuses for the racism exhibited here. To hell with religious private schools and their toxic white priveledge.

Racist and abusive treatment of an elderly peacemaker because others called them on their beliefs.

Knowing the entire story just makes me have a worse opinion of them. The fucking little cowards were pissed of at the Black Israel followers but found a convenient target in an old man trying to calm the situation down.

And now they’re justifying their terrorizing actions by blaming others. How typical!

Thanks for laying out the step by step facts.

champion their pro-life stance as Catholics, but why were they wearing the Maga hats, and I wonder if their pro-life stance extends to the actual born children who have died while in border control custody.

I've been seeing a lot of folks elsewhere defending the kids by saying watch the whole video, but I suspected things played out as cyou describe.

Thanks for posting.

that the chaperones seemingly allowed these high school students to put themselves in a somewhat dangerous situation. If Nathan hadn’t intervened and taken their attention away from the BHI, who knows what could have happened. A fistfight? Someone with a weapon? I think that Nathan is the true hero of the story and should receive a thank you from the CovCath administration. Fat chance of course, but I’ll remain hopeful.

Should have stepped in. I did not see any. They could have stopped it easily.

They need to be disciplined.

Thank you

basketball player....it's all damning on the students, Conventry and the Catholic Diocese.

And - why isn't this Catholic school teaching these boys to turn the other cheek? It would seem that the teachers and administration along with the parents are teaching white male superiority and arrogance. Another black eye for the Catholic church. I am a cradle Catholic, and I find this teaching and this behavior abhorrent.

This is a very good piece of work that you have done. I appreciate it. It can probably be concluded that the kid staring down the Native American has within him, some real nasty.

Your synopsis is very good, thank you.

That's the label the always excellent Wonkette.com has put on efforts to exonerate these MAGA hat-wearing little weasels. It turns my stomach that the NY Times is playing such a prominent role in re-telling the events as they actually transpired.

Those kids went there to start some shit. They did.
They aren't the only ones who went there to start shit.

and the Elder drumming was trying to move through the crowd of kids and the smiling/smirking kid did not step aside to let him pass. It looked more like he was doing a "stand my ground" thing.

Can someone verify for me whether the kid deliberately stepped into the way, or if he was already in the way, and the Elder thought the kid would move when he got right up in front of him?

From the WaPo article you posted: "Sandmann said in his statement that he “did not witness or hear any students chant ‘build that wall’ or anything hateful or racist at any time. Assertions to the contrary are simply false.”"
Does this sound like a teenage boy or daddy's lawyer?

Hey, little baby boy, come try a high kick (you'd be scared, too).

Link to tweet

Facts are difficult for many, especially in such a complex and fraught matter.

Not sure.

They also report the native american approached him not vice versa.

At closer examination it looks like Nathan is making his way through the crowd as the kids separate and they end up face to face and the kid and it looks like the kid next to him don't budge so they just end up face to face for several minutes and it gets awkward. So I stand corrected that he stepped in front of Nathan. He really just stood there and didn't give space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=70&v=sIG5ZB0fw1k

The kid didn’t back down, the smirk we all hate may merely be a 17 year old feeling awkward and unsure of what to do. But don’t tell people here that, because they’ll squelch your opinion and say you’re spouting RW talking points.

Thank you for the vid.

Good summary. Thanks.

engaging is the situation, not diffusing it.

Those of us who live here are used to the BHI yelling stupid stuff. There are also dipshit white preachers on some street corners spewing hate against gays and abortion. MAGA hat wearing dipshits come into my city and tell me to get out of my own country because I'm brown and stealing jobs from entitled racist idiots.

Somehow, we manage to live our lives without engaging in pointless confrontations with these assholes.

Can also be the right move.

The hatred spewed by the groups you describe should not go unanswered.

I would admire anyone who challenged a white preacher on a street corner spewing hate against gays.

They would already know that they are not worth the time of day. I have encountered them on multiple occasions and I have learned to just ignore them. They are the black equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Is this situation also related to the MAGA hat kids?

Update: OK, so I finally watched the 3 minute video. My thoughts on the matter are: Parents have to do a better job with their kids. The vibe I get is just a bunch of ignorant little boys who don't know anything about respect and decency, and they're fully immersed in racist/MAGA culture (based on snippets I've seen here and there about blackface, etc). Apparently the adults at their school/homes condone their behavior.

There are now over 20,000 signatures.

He addresses many issues that need to be changed and also the Johnson Act.

I suggest that you check out the comments...




"Immediate change at Covington Catholic"

"Matt Lehman started this petition to Bishop of Covington Rev. Bishop Foys"

Most Rev. Foys,

"I write to you as a Christian, a graduate of Covington Catholic High School, a parishioner of Holy Spirit Parish in the Covington Diocese, and as a father of an 8th grade boy deciding where he will attend high school next year.

I am sure that you, as many of us in the Covington Catholic community, are disappointed and concerned about the recent actions of a number of CovCath boys in Washington D.C. at the March for Life.

In response to this issue, I urge you to demonstrate swift and decisive leadership.

Specifically, I am petitioning you to take the following actions:

1. The immediate termination of the school principal, Mr. Robert Rowe, for fostering an environment where these types of actions and words are condoned.

2. Appointment of a board of Covington Diocese Catholics to thoroughly review CovCath’s admissions, educational standards, administration and social mission. This board should report directly to the lay population of the Diocese.

3. Cease any further association of CovCath with the March for Life. The time and money previously used for this trip should be redirected to Welcome House, a Catholic organization with a long track record of supporting the lives of the most vulnerable Covington residents.

Unfortunately, what happened in D.C. should not be a surprise to anyone who has been associated with CovCath. The above photo (from last year’s March for Life) was in the CovCath recruiting brochure my son received a few months ago:

Forgetting the fact that including "MAGA" propaganda in the school's recruitment material is likely illegal under the Johnson Amendment, it also shows a complete lack of judgement by CovCath administration."
.
continue
https://www.change.org/p/rev-bishop-foys-immediate-change-at-covington-catholic

[link:?quality=65&strip=all|

The kids are full of it claiming they were "defusing" the situation, but they also weren't initiating anything.

Shifting the narrative to the kids being "disrespectful" is a dodge. The Black Israelites, who started the whole thing, were also disrespectful. It was Phillips who invited himself into the fracas and got right in the kids' faces (completely ignoring the Israelites). He intended to confront the kids.

Thanks for making them.

When I was at the Women's March, police were EVERYWHERE.

Not too long ago I was literally in Washington's home Mt.Vernon, peering into his bedroom when a group of young white kids, a tour group, came waltzing through, acting like young teenagers act, but all had on red MAGA hats. I found it to be kind of ironic, if not scary, that here we are, in the home of our founding father George Washington, being infiltrated by Trump supporters.

... until another DUer kindly sent me a link to your post.

Link to tweet