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Fascinating list of the 7 social classes in 1841 England. Esp. the 7th. (Original Post) dixiegrrrrl Jan 2019 OP
K&R smirkymonkey Jan 2019 #1
Idle persons supported by criminal activity? jberryhill Jan 2019 #2
Interestingly, in the original, there is later a division into 'productive' and 'unproductive' muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #10
16 million+ considered paupers and vagrants? mcar Jan 2019 #3
Lot of wars going on. dixiegrrrrl Jan 2019 #6
That table is wrong - here's a link to the original book muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #9
Thanks mcar Jan 2019 #11
Thank you! dixiegrrrrl Jan 2019 #15
On another side note the British series "Taboo" takes place in the year 1814. miyazaki Jan 2019 #16
I saw the first season... dixiegrrrrl Jan 2019 #17
K&R Jeffersons Ghost Jan 2019 #14
found this: dixiegrrrrl Jan 2019 #19
History is fascinating mcar Jan 2019 #20
army and navy? IcyPeas Jan 2019 #4
apart from it, actually. dixiegrrrrl Jan 2019 #5
Soon as I saw the title, I said to myself..."the military" Xolodno Jan 2019 #7
. janx Jan 2019 #8
This class shit is the root of all evil malaise Jan 2019 #12
are we there yet? Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #13
we've been there since day one of landing in this country. dixiegrrrrl Jan 2019 #18

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
10. Interestingly, in the original, there is later a division into 'productive' and 'unproductive'
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 07:14 AM
Jan 2019
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dbw_AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA109

"Productive Labourers, by whose exertions a new Property is created every year
Agriculture, Mines. etc.
Foreign Commerce, Shipping, Trade, Manufactures, Fisheries etc.
Fine Arts"

"Unproductive Labourers, whose exertions do not create any new Property
Royalty, Nobility, Gentry
State and Revenue, Army, Navy, half pay, pensioners
Clergy, Law, Physic
Universities, Schools, Miscellaneous
Paupers"

(though it does then say that 'unproductive' doesn't mean 'useless')

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
6. Lot of wars going on.
Mon Jan 21, 2019, 10:32 PM
Jan 2019

Not much in the way of the ordinary soldier or sailor pensions. Officers were a bit better off when they left service.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
9. That table is wrong - here's a link to the original book
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 06:58 AM
Jan 2019
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dbw_AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA106

It's OK up to the 'sixth class', but then should come:

Menial servants [no 'heads of families'] 1,279,923

7th Class Paupers etc. 387,100 [heads] 1,828,170 [total]

Total for civilians of all 7 classes: 3,371,281 16,165,803

Army and navy officers inc. on half pay 10,500 69,000

NCOs, soldiers etc. 120,000 862,000

The table in the OP has mistakenly put the total for civilians as the vagrants etc. - as you point out, that then makes it look like slightly over half the country.

A discussion on these figures: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vP4jluprqYYC&pg=PT24

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
15. Thank you!
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 12:41 PM
Jan 2019

Love how you sleuthed that out.

I was reading that table during a break from re-watching Downton Abbey this week, the plot being based initially on the entail law, and the family facing the loss of their estate.

On a side note, that show takes place from 1912 on up to WW1. I was struck once again how people thought their world would go on, perhaps with minor changes, forever, yet that war indirectly doomed the landed gentry way of life, with rare exceptions.

miyazaki

(2,239 posts)
16. On another side note the British series "Taboo" takes place in the year 1814.
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 12:58 PM
Jan 2019

Fun show, a little strange.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
17. I saw the first season...
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 01:11 PM
Jan 2019

Now waiting for S. 2 to show up.

There is another series this month, called "frontier" which is an obvious copy of Taboo, not quite the same standard, tho.
I do enjoy watching Alun Armstrong in it, however.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
19. found this:
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 09:12 PM
Jan 2019

Owning land was the main form of wealth in the 18th century. Political power and influence was in the hands of rich landowners. At the top were the nobility. Below them were a class of nearly rich landowners called the gentry. In the early 18th century there was another class of landowners called yeomen between the rich and the poor. However during the century this class became less and less numerous. However other middle class people such as merchants and professional men became richer and more numerous, especially in the towns.

Below them were the great mass of the population, craftsmen and laborers.
In the 18th century probably half the population lived as subsistence or bare survival level.

DAILY LIFE IN 18th CENTURY BRITAIN....
http://www.localhistories.org/18thcent.html

Social history is so fascinating, and helpful, I find.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
5. apart from it, actually.
Mon Jan 21, 2019, 10:28 PM
Jan 2019

Altho basically low paid slaves in that naval system.
and, sadly, just like today, any injured sailor was turned loose to make it on his own.
same for military veterans.

Which might go a long way in explaining why there the 7th class is so numerous.

Xolodno

(6,390 posts)
7. Soon as I saw the title, I said to myself..."the military"
Mon Jan 21, 2019, 11:23 PM
Jan 2019

...and I was right.

This was a time of massive income inequality. Being a soldier meant clothing, food, shelter and a small wage. The higher classes saw them as "surplus population" and so casualties in wars were no big deal. And their career path was pretty much limited, they may rise in rank...but not very far. The goal was to live long enough to be useless on the front lines and put into other roles away from the main battle or in a spot that was far less dangerous.

But if you had some really good experience, you could opt to become a mercenary and make more money.

The ones with "cushy" ranks and watched the battle from a safe distance and barked orders, were reserved for those in the upper classes. The only time they were seriously in danger, when they made a really bad decision.

Of course, this was an "out" if you were male...females didn't have this option.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
18. we've been there since day one of landing in this country.
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 06:00 PM
Jan 2019

remember, the US started out as colonies of England. Every large country back then was grabbing as much foreign territory as it could, to make money from the New World, and ship good stuff back to the mother country.

The pyramid of wealth has always been the same design. Huge masses of people in various walks of life toiled to support the people at the top of the pyramid, one way or another.



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