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shockey80

(4,379 posts)
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 02:59 PM Jan 2019

In my opinion, the shutdown nullifies the law blocking federal workers from striking.

The law was created to prevent federal workers from shutting down the government. The supporters of the law claimed shutdowns put the country at great risk.

So an asshole Senator or a lying piece of shit President can shut down the government, ruin thousands of lives and put the country risk, but federal workers cannot. BULLSHIT.

I would like to remind everyone about the ILLEGAL 1970 postal strike.

Carriers in New York City went on strike. They broke the law. Their union leaders were against it. Carriers across the country did not join them at first, the carriers in New York were alone. Their courage, encouraged carriers across the country to join them.

Nixon appeared on TV and ordered them back to work. This did not work. Nixon declared a national emergency and called out 24000 military personnel to deliver the mail. They failed, they could not do it. Nixon attacked the union leaders, they had nothing to do with the strike, the carriers on strike paid no attention. What happened next is important.

Workers in other government agencies announced they would strike if any action was taken against the postal workers.

The carriers won the strike and not one striker was ever punished.

The postal strike was started by a small number of carriers who had the courage to risk everything and they won.

The federal workers today need to stand together. They should announce the shutdown is illegal and the law against them is nullified. They should set a date for Trump and Congress to reopen the government. If they don't all Federal workers will go on strike. If they do that they will win. If they don't there is a chance thousands of them will have there lives ruined.

You can't fire and replace all Federal workers. The workers have to do this. Not the unions and union leaders.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In my opinion, the shutdown nullifies the law blocking federal workers from striking. (Original Post) shockey80 Jan 2019 OP
In my opinion, eggplant tastes like wet paper towels jberryhill Jan 2019 #1
It's that type of attitude that is causing us to lose our way of life. shockey80 Jan 2019 #2
Is eggplant that important to our way of life? jberryhill Jan 2019 #4
The postal carriers broke the law. shockey80 Jan 2019 #6
But I thought you said the law does not apply? jberryhill Jan 2019 #7
I have called nobody a coward. shockey80 Jan 2019 #9
"If the person who makes the law, breaks the law, then the law is worthless." jberryhill Jan 2019 #17
"I would like to remind everyone about the ILLEGAL 1970 postal strike." BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #3
Not the same situation, come on. shockey80 Jan 2019 #5
It IS the same situation BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #8
It is impossible to fire all Federal workers. shockey80 Jan 2019 #10
Disagree. BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #13
I think people are hoping when things get bad enough they will end the shutdown. shockey80 Jan 2019 #14
Beyond mid-February, SNAP benefits cease BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #16
Consider the possibility that Trump may not care about opening the government. Republicans have been dameatball Jan 2019 #11
No government and no employer could tell me that I have to go into debt to malaise Jan 2019 #12
I completely agree. shockey80 Jan 2019 #15
I get it. My concern is that it is not an effective strategy to go on strike when only one side dameatball Jan 2019 #20
Cost Guard should start it. safeinOhio Jan 2019 #18
Post removed Post removed Jan 2019 #19
Post removed Post removed Jan 2019 #21
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
1. In my opinion, eggplant tastes like wet paper towels
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:04 PM
Jan 2019

I suppose everyone's got an opinion of one sort or another.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
4. Is eggplant that important to our way of life?
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:12 PM
Jan 2019

Look, if federal workers want to strike, that's certainly up to them. But, make no mistake about it, the fact that they aren't getting paid does not change the law in that regard. They can certainly quit if they want to. But if they strike, then they are taking a risk which YOU aren't taking.

But, I'm not cavalier about other people's life choices. Yeah, sure, some person on the internet with no responsibility for the consequences of their opinions thinks, on the basis of nothing whatsoever, that the law should be nullified because that's what that person would like the law to be.

Law doesn't work that way.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
7. But I thought you said the law does not apply?
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:20 PM
Jan 2019

Look, whether or not federal workers want to strike is up to them.

You can call them soft, cowards, whatever you want.

But your suggestion that the law doesn't apply is just silly, from a legal point of view.

The postal carriers did take that risk, and did break the law. But they didn't do so under some silly notion that the relevant law only applies when they want it to.
 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
9. I have called nobody a coward.
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:31 PM
Jan 2019

If the person who makes the law, breaks the law, then the law is worthless.

I did not say the federal workers should strike right away. They should threaten a strike first. Believe me that would get peoples attention.

Whats the alternative for the Federal workers?. Just sit back and wait to have their lives ruined.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
17. "If the person who makes the law, breaks the law, then the law is worthless."
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:57 PM
Jan 2019

Yeah, that argument wins a lot of cases in court.


Not.

BumRushDaShow

(127,330 posts)
3. "I would like to remind everyone about the ILLEGAL 1970 postal strike."
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:10 PM
Jan 2019

You skipped over this however -



And 11,000 were fired. And it took over 20 years to replace them. But they were replaced - and the originals who were fired were permanently banned (although much later that ban was lifted).
 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
5. Not the same situation, come on.
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:15 PM
Jan 2019

That was 11,000 people. If all federal workers supported them like they did with the postal carriers maybe Reagan would have backed down.

BumRushDaShow

(127,330 posts)
8. It IS the same situation
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:25 PM
Jan 2019

You are calling for a "strike" and in 1981, I provided you someone's recording of what happened when they did strike. I remember it well because that happened a few years before I started working for the federal government.

It happened very quickly in fact. And since that particular position of ATC had an age limit, that pretty much put many out of work for good (at least in that type of position) due to the "lifetime ban" that was also imposed (but eventually lifted years later).

Your analogy using the Postal Workers is actually NOT the same. The Postal Workers are under a separate system from the regular government civil service AND they only get incidental appropriated funding from the federal government, vs regular civil servants who are primarily funded by Congressional appropriations (and in some instances, those appropriated monies are supplemented with "user fees" and/or "grants" from private industry and/or non-profits).

You need to understand these Republicans a little better - many of them coming out of the Reagan school of thought of "less government". They would fire the whole kitandkaboodle in a hot minute and have no regrets.

BumRushDaShow

(127,330 posts)
13. Disagree.
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:40 PM
Jan 2019

There are over 300 million people who live in the U.S. with at least 1/2 of age to work. There are currently twice as many contractors as federal civil servants working for the government (few if any of those contractors will ever be paid with the shutdown). There are your easy "replacements" (the contractors all had to go through the same security clearances via e-QIP as feds).

 

shockey80

(4,379 posts)
14. I think people are hoping when things get bad enough they will end the shutdown.
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:40 PM
Jan 2019

If the shutdown continues for another 2 or 3 months things could get ugly. federal workers will be hurt badly. It could start hurting all of us.

If that happens what are we supposed to do?

BumRushDaShow

(127,330 posts)
16. Beyond mid-February, SNAP benefits cease
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:49 PM
Jan 2019

and other things that have nothing to do with federal employees and everything to do with subsidies (including those just passed in December for the FARM Bill that would have actual money distributed via the Agricultural Appropriation) and other financial payments that are being held up by Mitch McConnell in the Senate.

Plantin' season is about to begin in many parts of this country and money is needed for seed (among other things).

The issue will go far beyond the federal employees.

dameatball

(7,380 posts)
11. Consider the possibility that Trump may not care about opening the government. Republicans have been
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:35 PM
Jan 2019

heavily backed by donors for decades that would love to see the large scale privatization of government. Federal employees going on an illegal strike simply make that goal easier. It is a slow moving, piecemeal approach. I'm sure Putin would love to see the shutdown of the entire government and the termination of many of its employees.

malaise

(267,842 posts)
12. No government and no employer could tell me that I have to go into debt to
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 03:36 PM
Jan 2019

do their unpaid work. That is fucking madness.

dameatball

(7,380 posts)
20. I get it. My concern is that it is not an effective strategy to go on strike when only one side
Tue Jan 22, 2019, 05:40 PM
Jan 2019

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2019, 06:35 PM - Edit history (1)

cares about the outcome. Imploding the effectiveness of the United States government, NATO, Paris Accords, etc., is a Putin/ Bannon/ Koch Brothers dream come true. I prefer that not happen.


One difference between the postal strike under Nixon and any strike under Trump is that Nixon probably(?) preferred that the mail got through. Trump simply doesn't care. The only thing Trump has to worry about is how much pain can he inflict on the American people before his base turns on him. We have yet to see that point be reached. If that happens the Repubs will abandon him in sufficient numbers that he will either change course or be impeached.

If I were a federal employee I would go to work in the hope of back pay and absolutely be beating the brushes for suitable employment options in the meantime. I'm sure many are doing just that. Then again, if I am a single parent with three kids, how much time can I really spend seeking other employment? If I am 18 months away from retirement, do I want to risk that? It's all complicated and all an individual decision. Has nothing to do with those of us on the sidelines.

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