General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSenate Floor: Sen. Kaine makes a move...
Sen @timkaine just tried to pass a bill to re-open the government by unanimous consent on the Senate floor.
As expected, @senatemajldr McConnell objected.
January 22, 2019
Sen. Kaine's action is usurping Moscow-Mitch's Senate position. Apparently, there is no rule that prevents him from calling a vote. It just typically is not done.
You go Sen. Kaine! This is the second time he has gone for this!
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Hope that it works.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,602 posts)Last audio clip I heard it was asshole McConnell himself calling out "Object!"
Someone should superglue that guy to his seat in his hideaway.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)the vote can move forward.
fierywoman
(7,671 posts)Salviati
(6,008 posts)and some delivery menus.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)he is needed in his office for something very important.
yonder
(9,657 posts)I'm not suggesting anything here, just observing that a laxative should do what it is designed to do -- on mammals anyway. Not sure about amphibians.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)greymattermom
(5,751 posts)yonder
(9,657 posts)but thought I was smarter than I am.
woodsprite
(11,905 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,289 posts)Recently, it was Sen. Lankford. We just have to keep trying.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)onenote
(42,590 posts)You can bet on it.
charlyvi
(6,537 posts)drmeow
(5,012 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,258 posts)Wear Moscow Mitch out.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)mountain grammy
(26,598 posts)Ill be writing to my Democratic Senator.
Maru Kitteh
(28,317 posts)and wait till he is forced to go and change them.
TryLogic
(1,722 posts)IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)I hope he wears out eventually.
2naSalit
(86,332 posts)Duppers
(28,117 posts)bluestarone
(16,864 posts)This is my thinking toooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERY FUCKING DAY by EVERY ONE OF THE DEMS.!!!!
ffr
(22,665 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)TryLogic
(1,722 posts)WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Oliver North is waiting in your office.
The floor will clear of all Republicans in a second.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)the vote can go forward.
I heard this on MSNBC from Lawerence, he explained this, I think it was just last week. According to Lawrence, this is a move that has not been used for many years. The first time Sen. Kaine did it, it was so quiet and almost not noticed. Political womps noticed!
onenote
(42,590 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)doompatrol39
(428 posts)....the Repubs through any and all decorum and procedure out the window long ago. It's about time we did the same.
Keep doing this until McConnell is not there to object. Put them all on record.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Stop with the standard outrage. Try new, bold actions that at least show the American people you are fighting for them.
SunSeeker
(51,513 posts)Duppers
(28,117 posts)onecaliberal
(32,780 posts)Cha
(296,850 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,584 posts)blue-wave
(4,344 posts)every single day. Show America over and over again how much the repukes HATE the working class. And oh....how much the turtle and his warthog followers hate America.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Keep it up!
mpreorder
(51 posts)I know this deserves it's own thread, but I've just recently returned to posting here after a long absence. (Never stopped reading though). It talks about why a wall won't work. From....get this...Conservative sources of information!!
Why do liberals not support Trump's wall? Do they not care about the risk our country faces from an economic and national security standpoint?
Mike Schemm, Retired CPA Specializing in U.S. Income Tax (2010-present)
Updated Mon
Found on Facebook with a byline of Daniel James Holloway but apparently originally written by Vicky Alvear Shecte. I wish I had written it. It certainly answers your question.
A conservative challenged liberal Facebook friends to make a case, not based on emotion against Trumps wall. Conservative buddies flooded his post with snide remarks about how this would be impossible for deluded libs.
Okay, Ill play, I responded. And in order to avoid being accused of bias, I explained that I would use only conservative sources to prove my point. My primary source was a policy paper by the Cato Institute, a conservative, rightwing think tank, along with other conservative voices (listed at the end of the piece). Heres why Im against the wall, I wrote:
1. Walls dont work. Illegal immigrants have tunneled underneath and/or erected ramps up and down walls to simply drive over them. People find a way. When East Germany erected its wall, it created a military zone, staffed by booted, machine-gun carrying guards ready to shoot to kill. Yet thousands managed to make it to West Germany anyway. More to the point, do we really want to model ourselves after communist East Germany?
2. Most illegal immigrants are overstayers. They come to the US legally for vacations, business, to study, etc. and then STAY past their visas. By 2012, overstayers accounted for 58% (THE MAJORITY!) of all unauthorized immigrants. A wall is meaningless here!
3. Walls have little impact on drugs being brought in to the US. According to the DEA, almost all drugs come in through legal points of entry, hidden in secret containers and/or among legit goods in tractor-trailers. A wall will have little to no impact on the influx of drugs into our country.
4. Its environmentally impractical. Walls have a hard time making it through extreme weather. For example, in 2011, a flood in Arizona washed away 40 feet of STEEL fencing. Torrential rains and raging waters do serious damage. Also, conservative sources generally do not address the environmental harm that walls create, but there is plenty of documentation available that show its potential for irreparable damage to both plant and animal life.
5. A wall would forces the U.S. government to take land from private citizens in eminent domain battles. Private citizens own much of the land slated for the wall. The costs of the government snatching private land and the legal battles that would ensue are incalculable.
6. Border patrol agents dont like concrete or steel walls because they block surveillance capabilities. In other words, they cant mobilize correctly to meet challenges. So in many ways, a wall makes their job more difficult.
7. Border patrol agents say, Walls are meaningless without agents and technology to back them up. Are we prepared to pour countless billions annually after the wall is built to create a nearly 2,000 mile, militarized 24-hour surveillance border operation? Because according to patrol agents, thats the only way a wall would work. Again, are we really, going to use East Germany, a brutal communist state, as our model here?
8. Where walls have been built, there was no discernable impact on the influx of unauthorized aliens. In other words, they came in elsewhere, primarily where natural barriers such as water or mountainous regions precluded a wall.
9. An unintended consequence is that a wall blocks farmworkers from EXITING when their invaluable seasonal work is done. Farmers are against the wall because it makes getting cheap seasonal labor almost impossible as few American citizens want or can even do those jobs. And if seasonal worker do get in, a wall makes it harder for them to leave! A wall traps migrant farm laborers in our country.
10. Trumps $5 billion is a laughable drop in the bucket for what would ACTUALLY be needed. For example, according to the Cato Institute: An estimate for a border wall area that only covered 700 miles was originally 1.2 billion. How much did it REALLY cost? SEVEN BILLION. And thats only for 700 miles. Whatever we think its going to cost, experience shows us we have to multiply it by more than 500%.
11. According to MIT engineers, the wall would cost $31.2 billion. Homeland Security estimates it at $22 billion. Given the pattern of spending mentioned in number 10 (plus Murphys Law), that means were really talking about pouring endless billions into something that doesnt even work. And, of course, we taxpayers will be footing the bill, not Mexico. Given all the drawbacks, is that REALLY the best use of our taxes?
As the conservatives of the Cato Institute put it, President Trumps wall would be a mammoth expenditure that would have little impact on illegal immigration. (Emphasis mine) Also it would create many direct harms: the spending, the taxes, the eminent domain abuse, and the decrease in immigrants freedoms of movement.
And, we must add, since conservative sources do not that the environmental harms are likely to be severe.
In other words, the facts show that walls dont work and they create even bigger, more expensive problems.
So what happened after I posted this conservative-sourced, fact-based list of why the wall is a bad idea?
Silence.
I waited for someone to respond, to engage with me. Where were the angry defenses or rebuttals? But when I searched for the post after a few days, I couldnt find it.
My FB friend had deleted it. You could say, like Trump with the government, he shut me down rather than deal with the facts.
The ugly genius of Trump is his ability to manipulate deep, primal emotions namely fear and hate. He, along with Fox News, have convinced his base that they are in extreme danger from immigrants and only a wall will make them safe.
Unfortunately, the need to feel safe is much stronger than the will to grapple with a complex, multi-faceted problem.
And so, here we are, paralyzed by shutdowns at every turn.
Conservative Sources Outlining the Uselessness of Trumps Wall:
The Cato Institute: https://www.cato.org/publicat
/commentary/why-wall-wont-work
Former Reagan staffer and Tea-Party liaison: https://www.usnews.com/
/the-conservative-case-against-a-bo
Chicago Tribune (conservative paper): https://www.chicagotribune.com/
/ct-perspec-chapman-trump-w
The National Review (conservative magazine): https://www.nationalreview.com/
/donald-trump-border-wall-
/
Nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute (MPI) think tank: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/
/borders-and-walls-do-barr
SWBTATTReg
(22,077 posts)I do hope that they reposted the write up again on facts against the wall (using conservative facts) again on FB. Thanks for posting here.
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)fuck the GD rules and mitch the bitch. Just act "as if" they had won, and sail on silverbirds. What have we got to lose?
orleans
(34,042 posts)twice that i know of
the second time mcconnell wasn't there but i heard a voice call out the objection, stating that it was for mcconnell
good for kaine!