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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust did my taxes...there is going to be a lot of pissed people
Based on advice from a friend of mine who works for KPMG, I took out extra withholding every pay period. Had I not, I would have owed money.
The "tax break" most people got was really just less withholding taken out. SURPRISE!
Donny the Crook lies again.
I don't know how it will work out for most, but for me, no real break.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)AND on top of all that, people were told they would be getting $5500 more of a standard deduction. NO ONE was saying that they would LOSE their personal exemption, worth $4100. So the real "break" is $1400.
I, for example, will pay for that $1400 increase in standard deduction by losing about $10,000 in other deductions, on which I will pay my regular rate.
People are going to be very, very pissed.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)You are capped at $10,000. Rat-fucked again.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)a share of that of the whole building. She still can't find out if the whole building's limit is 10K (and her building pays many times that in property taxes) or if each resident's limit is 10K on both the property tax and mortgage deduction. If it is the building's limit, everyone is going to be screwed. And co-ops are very common around here.
exboyfil
(17,857 posts)That could be crushing.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)Gee, I never saw that coming!
Indykatie
(3,691 posts)I've seen many comments online from folks that think the SALT cap applies to mortgage interest which is wrong. But even without the inclusion of mortgage interest many people with higher incomes will still be screwed who don't live in states with very high state and property taxes like CA, NJ and NY. I live in Indiana a state with modest taxes but the total of my State, Local County, and property taxes on my home will exceed $10,000. Not by much but I can imagine folks in states with taxes higher than Indiana will be hit harder. I don't know if its unusual for States to have both a state and local county tax.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)deduction. You can only deduct the interest on 750K of debt. For a co-op building, the building's mortgage can be many, many times that. The shareholders collectively hold the debt and apportion the tax deduction on the mortgage interest among themselves. So do they lose all that deduction on their share of the total? No one seems to know.
I live in the New York. Property taxes of 10K or less are unheard of. They are much, much higher. Which was the point. All these measures were intended to hurt urban coastal people.
TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts).
The same applies to California and New York State, though to less of a degree in billions.
Imaging having that many billions sucked from your local economy, each and every year for decades.
You'd have high taxes, since little is allowed to be spent in the state.
.
Squinch
(50,774 posts)roamer65
(36,739 posts)NJ should get back every dime it sends to DC. Let states like KY increase THEIR state taxes to pay for THEIR roads.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Eight million more Americans will OWE or have smaller refunds BUT $62 billion more in tax refunds this year.
I wonder where that money is going???? ( That's sarcasm, I think we all know WHO is getting $62 billion).
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Friends. Said they did not change the withholding tables. So, when average people do their taxes (at a lower rate) their refunds would be higher. Like they tricked them into raving about refunds in April
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)Zambero
(8,954 posts)Too bad it's not the guy who finds himself getting trickled on. This analogy will be occurring millions of times over.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)admiration, but when they get people roped in they use their power over them to hurt them -- proof of their superiority. The Repubs would have done the tax heist with another president, but I've often wondered if a big part of his motivation was the enjoyment of screwing millions because he could, very much including his trumpsters.
Trump liked to talk at rallies about "his" Supreme Court case that would make requiring insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions, at all or without charging through the nose for them, unconstitutional. People would cheer less certainly, and then he'd pump enthusiasm back up again with the usual wall, Hillary, whatever. Always wondered just what he was enjoying in those exercises, because he could.
Reportedly hear he's very afraid of losing support these days, though. Is he afraid of tax season?
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)Maeve
(42,224 posts)Both of us are sole-proprietors and the H&R Block software informs us we can't file until the IRS updates a specific form. (I knew we'd owe money, but still figuring out how much)
Frustrating. Thanks, tRump, you turd.
TrishaJ
(797 posts)a specific form is updated. I don't understand why the form has not already been updated and ready at the end of 2018.
llmart
(15,501 posts)nitpicker
(7,153 posts)Type in the form number, and this will tell you when it was last updated.
lindysalsagal
(20,444 posts)NotASurfer
(2,138 posts)Gangsters, Robbers, Liars, Thieves
First, we need an ending...
a kennedy
(29,467 posts)and in jail, not the posh Federal prisons, the hard core prisons where they can see all the other criminals up close.
NotASurfer
(2,138 posts)no Filet o'Fish, and no KFC. Nothing to clog their arteries and shorten the time of their life sentences by a few years!
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Haggis for Breakfast
(6,831 posts)And the "Proof the earth isn't flat." I saw a t-shirt the other day that read, "If the Earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off of it by now."
jpak
(41,742 posts)The "surprised" MAGAts can pound sand.
Turbineguy
(37,212 posts)as soon as the tax reduction went into effect. I expect I'll be glad I did.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)I didn't get hit by the AMT this year. I got to take a child tax credit that I couldn't in the past. My rates dropped. I don't have high SALT taxes, so the cap on those didn't hurt. My income was lower last year. The net effect of everything was that my return went up a few thousand dollars. I haven't done the comparison to see the change in my effective tax rate.
livetohike
(22,084 posts)got started, but so far his clients are seeing about the same refunds as last year. He said the people who will see a bigger refund dont come to H&R Block. Theyre much wealthier than the clients he sees in our rural area.
exboyfil
(17,857 posts)My GOP leaning coworker asked me why I was so mad about Trump. I told him given the deficit that I did not expect to do better. I also told him it allowed me to send money to other Senate and House races (I normally never do that). I think he knows who I sent the money to.
He was also surprised that 2/3rds of my bonus was taxed at 12%. I told him that happens when you only have one person working in your family. He makes what I do as a mid-level engineer. His wife makes more as a real estate agent and appraiser.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)I point out to my Republican co-workers that it wasn't really a tax cut. It was a tax deferral. We still have to pay that debt sometime. They just opted to dump the tax burden on our children. How very patriotic of them.
exboyfil
(17,857 posts)the deficit as well.
I would prefer to see Democratic candidates talk about how they plan to pay for those things we have already committed to paying. I understand though that is not how you get elected. Additional taxes are a part of it. Also smarter spending of the money is also important. Boondoggles exist on both sides of the aisle.
llmart
(15,501 posts)We could pay for the deficit quite well if we'd just tax the wealthy, corporations and churches.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)The poster above is exactly right, someone needs to be honest with taxpayers about Debt.
Of course, the first one who says even some in middle class are going to have to pay more to solve the problem, theyll be the first to be removed from consideration. The debt really is a you cant handle the truth issue. Obama tried to discuss it, but got crucified by even Democrats.
karynnj
(59,475 posts)would be taxed. I agree that it would be a huge help and the economists behind her plan include people like Krugman. If she ends up the nominee, it will be good if everyone is careful when speaking of marginal rates on either income or wealth. The idea is to have money the government needs and to reduce income inequality which has skyrocketed since the 1970s.
jmowreader
(50,453 posts)IIRC the 70 percent rate (which is being promulgated largely by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who last I checked wasn't running for president) was earmarked for the "Green New Deal." It needs to go 100 percent toward deficit reduction - not elimination, we need about $100 billion worth of deficit to keep the Republicans from going nutzo - and retirement of public debt rather than some new program.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)Mine turned out way better this year and my struggling family will pay $0 taxes and get all of my withholding back, thanks to the new standard deduction and then doubling the child tax credit.
Lonestarblue
(9,880 posts)Because of high property taxes and a mortgage, I will still itemize but the loss of the old personal deduction will result in higher taxes. Of course, I never expected anything else because Republicans are always good at hiding the real results of the tax laws they pass.
3Hotdogs
(12,210 posts)I have no deductions. Mortgage is paid off. Health is good and I have no co-pay because of pension health care.
KentuckyWoman
(6,666 posts)We are both old enough for social security and he has the pension. We are both old enough to be forced to take a certain amount out of the NON Roth IRAs that were opened before Roth was avail. It is enough to pay taxes on SS. I expect to get hosed.
3Hotdogs
(12,210 posts)Mine is taxed at 13%
progree
(10,864 posts)dividends rate. It is taxed the same as earned income.
3Hotdogs
(12,210 posts)progree
(10,864 posts)Unemployment was and is an addition to regular income.
Social Security income is taxed above certain thresholds. In my case, 85% of my SS benefits are being taxed as ordinary income.
3Hotdogs
(12,210 posts)progree
(10,864 posts)E.g. if you earn $80,000 salary, your paycheck is reduced by the SS (6.2%) and Medicare (1.45%) for a total of 7.65%, leaving you with a $80,000 * (100%-7.65%) = $73,880 paycheck.
But you declare your income on your taxes to be $80,000. So there's no deduction for tax purposes.
In other words, the worst case scenario -- smaller paycheck, but taxes on the full salary amount.
mitch96
(13,821 posts)Same here, fixed income.. House almost paid off, no medical deduction (thanks god). I intentionally did not change anything from last year to see what the difference would be..
m
TexasBushwhacker
(20,044 posts)It used to be $6350 plus a personal exemption of $4050 for a total of $10400.
joewicker_TX
(73 posts)I make LESS than 60K a year and my effective tax rate is 19.24%...still have to pay at the end of the year. No break at all.
The rich keep on getting richer.
StatGirl
(518 posts)That effective tax rate seems too high, unless you are paying both sides of Social Security and Medicare.
(Or if you're declared as a dependent on someone else's return, but few adults are.)
nycbos
(6,033 posts)3Hotdogs
(12,210 posts)deductions, plus and extra amount.
nycbos
(6,033 posts)Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Withholding.
jpak
(41,742 posts)Just ask yer HR dept. for the form - 2 seconds to fill out - (maybe 10)
TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts)KelleyKramer
(8,851 posts)Why would the IRS be pissed you let them keep your money all year?
progree
(10,864 posts)standard deduction amounts. So the increase in the standard deduction didn't help me at all. But losing the personal exemption (it was $4050 in 2017) did hurt me.
My tax preparer back in March 2017 did a comparison of 2017 vs. expected 2018, assuming that I'd have the same income and expenses in 2018 as in 2017, and confirmed that.
George II
(67,782 posts)...families with children.
Standard deduction went up by 88% (not double) but the personal exemption went down 100%. A family of four had a personal exemption of $16,200 - that's GONE. The standard deduction went up only $11,300 - that's a difference of $4,900.
George II
(67,782 posts)Like you point out, the withholding rate was reduced, so people appeared to immediately "profit" by the tax changes, but you pay at the end of the year.
Working families are the ones screwed the most. republicans claimed that the "standard deduction has doubled", but that's not true - it's a little less than double. For a married couple it went from $12,700 to $24,000 (double would have been $25,400) But what they don't point out is that at the same time the personal exemption of $4,050 was eliminated! That's $4,050 per family member.
For a married couple with no children, the combination went from $20,800 to $24,000, which is good.
However, if you're married with TWO children, the combination went from $28,900 to $24,000 - a REDUCTION of more than 20%!!! And if you have three or four children the reduction is even greater.
And I'm not even getting into all the deductions that have been eliminated.
MichMan
(11,790 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...(I don't have children so don't know what those conditions/income factors are)
But even if it's the maximum, for that family of four the net results are:
2017 $30,900
2018 $28,000
A loss of $2,900.
progree
(10,864 posts)Example for one child:
E.g. our taxable income is higher by $4,050 because we lost the dependent exemption. At the 22% tax bracket, that costs us: $4,050 * 22% = $891.
But we gain an extra $1,000 (in the best case) child tax credit.
So we're $1000 - 891 = $109 less taxes. (best case)
In the next tax bracket (24%) it comes to a $28 tax savings. In tax brackets above that (32%, 35%, 37%), TCJA is a tax loss
(All of the above is considering just these two factors alone -- dependent exemption and child tax credit).
========================================================
If we're in the 12% tax bracket:
Our taxable income is higher by $4,050 because we lost the dependent exemption. At the 12% tax bracket, that costs us: $4,050 * 12% = $486.
But we gain an extra $1,000 (in the best case) child tax credit.
So we're $1000 - 486 = $514 less taxes. (best case)
========================================================
I don't have children and I haven't studied the conditions/income factors that affect the child tax credit.
duforsure
(11,882 posts)And they just thought the Mid Terms results for them was bad. 2020 will be an even worse disaster after trump gets done with them. Republicans best hope is to stand up and stop his every move, or their future , and their party is doomed. Republicans must be brain dead allowing him to do this to them now any longer.
Hangdog Slim
(80 posts)My accountant advised me to do the same and told my wife who is an independent contractor to pay more quarterly. Hopefully it's enough. I work with mostly Trumpers who aren't going to know what hit them. A lot of our deductions (I'm a trucker) were taken away. Someone on Fox or wing-nut radio will figure out some way to blame it on Democrats taking over the house and my colleagues will, of course, fall for it as they always do.
flying_wahini
(6,529 posts)Thankfully the deduction is 10k.
Worried we will lose even more with the new changes.
We are making it on savings but thinking we may need to return to work.
We have family that owns more than one home so this is gonna hurt a LOT of families here.
MichMan
(11,790 posts)Helps those who are working and don't own expensive property, but hurts retirees.
CrispyQ
(36,231 posts)safeinOhio
(32,531 posts)They will be counting on that tax return for a down payment on a large purchase like a car.
This will hit profits for many companies.
watoos
(7,142 posts)and I get SS, a pension, and investment income. I control my withholdings. I deduct a % from SS and a % from my investments and a % from my pension, so I will be fine.
Living in Pa. also helps since Pa. doesn't tax pensions, investment income, or SS. We do have the highest tax on gasoline in the nation.
Freddie
(9,232 posts)And yes PA does not tax retirement $$. I know our gas taxes are high but the wage tax (3.07%) has not gone up since the Rendell admin and sales tax has been 6% since the dawn of time. Pisses me off when Repugs complain about PA taxes. High property taxes? Blame your school district or municipality.
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)wishstar
(5,267 posts)Some people I know just accepted (and spent) their increased pay last year without even questioning the lower federal tax withholding and are just now finding out from their tax preparer that the nice big refund they usually get is not arriving this year.
I counseled one friend yesterday about how to fix her withholdings to a higher amount this year in order to get a bigger refund since she has great difficulty trying to save rather than spending everything she gets. Personally I prefer to owe a little and get to use of all of my money throughout the year, but for some people getting a refund helps as forced savings giving them needed money for big car and/or house insurance bills and to make up for the big January property taxes.
MichMan
(11,790 posts)I know several who believe that a big tax refund is somehow a "free" government windfall.
I try to explain that all it means is that they are getting their own money back because they overpaid.
I would rather have lower overall taxes and owe money on April 15th personally. Since we are a married couple with no dependents who haven't itemized for many years, I am hopeful that our overall taxes are lower this year.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)GOP voters will, of course, blame Obama.
Freddie
(9,232 posts)But I adjusted our W4s to have more taken out just in case. Not many people did, at least at my work (I do payroll). May be in for surprises.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)If I had not adjusted, guess who would be paying!
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)We had them withhold the same amount we were before the "tax break". We still owe around 500 but it could have been much worse. Smoke and mirrors is all this is.
MichMan
(11,790 posts)That way you would be getting an extra $2000 "refund" instead of paying $500
I personally only care what my total tax bill is, not how much of a "refund" I am getting.
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)I do not want a refund of my money, i just want it as close as possible. I adjusted our withholding or we would have owed 2000.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)dawnie51
(959 posts)took a powder. The whole scam was set to not go off until after the midterms, i.e. spring 2019, so Ryan sat on his ass for an entire year doing absolutely nothing, and just before the big explosion of tax season, he strolls off into the sunset.
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)ooky
(8,886 posts)Aw darn.
StTimofEdenRoc
(445 posts)Amishman
(5,541 posts)And the increased child credit.
I never quite had enough to itemize even under the old structure.
I know those with high state/property taxes will feel the pain though.
StTimofEdenRoc
(445 posts)I did with Turbotax. I can't believe they endangered my SS future this ....
And now my employer, while suffering under the weight of all that extra cash, gave us a 1% pool for this years raises.
The Polack MSgt
(13,159 posts)I did three separate calculators (the IRS Calculator, and 2 calculators put out by 2 of the investment companies holding pieces of my 401ks) when the law changed and all the calculators told me I would be fine the way my with holding was set up.
I put an extra $75 a month against my Federal taxes anyway.
So, If Trumpy was honest I should get round $2000 back from the Feds
I'll let everyone know how it worked out
jmowreader
(50,453 posts)This bill is going to cost me money. I know that right from the start. Call it schadenfreude, but it's going to be delicious watching the Trump supporters shit bricks when they realize Fearless Leader's "tax cut" has actually raised most people's taxes - ESPECIALLY people like the Quiverfulls who relied on personal exemptions that don't exist any more.
shanti
(21,672 posts)about $600 less, but my income has increased due to SS pushing me into a higher tax bracket now, so there's that. I forgot to withhold when I signed up, and only caught my error in December. Next year should be better. I was worried I wouldn't be able to use my MCC this year, but nothing changed there, so that was good.
Oh, and the new form sucks. That is all.
helpisontheway
(5,004 posts)My husband lost about 10,000 in work related deductions. We would have owed thousands if it wasnt for our credit for our sons tuition and a few other things.
Response to helpisontheway (Reply #87)
roamer65 This message was self-deleted by its author.
D_Master81
(1,822 posts)Less money withheld??? I'm no fan of Trump's tax cut, but "less withholding" means you got your tax break during the year in your paycheck. The withholding schedules all got updated by the IRS to reflect the new tax laws. Assuming you didnt change your withholdings your refund should be very similar to past years. If people want to get bigger refunds, claim "0" on your W4 and have the most taken out possible. That all said, yes the average person isnt going to see much of a difference. If you own a pass through business however, those are the people that will see the biggest changes. Them and corporate returns.
Gothmog
(144,005 posts)I am a partner in a law firm and so the tables do not help. I upped my estimated tax payments for the last two quarters just to be safe
roamer65
(36,739 posts)Those folks are gonna get hammered.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)It appears to be a very significant tax cut for me.