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ACLU @ACLU : Today, the South Dakota House will vote on this bill. (Original Post) BeckyDem Jan 2020 OP
Gosh! A young person trying to understand who they are leftieNanner Jan 2020 #1
Seems like they open their book called (WE don't give a fuck) bluestarone Jan 2020 #2
Sometimes I honestly don't know. It is so hateful, beyond the imagination. BeckyDem Jan 2020 #3
That doesn't seem so surprising when you consider... Dr. Strange Jan 2020 #4
Omg. What the hell? BeckyDem Jan 2020 #7
The bill is a little more subtle than that Azathoth Jan 2020 #5
January 29, 2020. Ahead of today's full chamber vote on House Bill 1057, BeckyDem Jan 2020 #6
Not exactly an unbiased description Azathoth Jan 2020 #9
You believe that is a fair comparison? Who should make the choices given the bias by the state BeckyDem Jan 2020 #11
It's a principle that parents' discretion over their kids' medical treatment doesn't allow them to Azathoth Jan 2020 #13
There are risks inherit in medical procedures, so who gets to make that choice? BeckyDem Jan 2020 #14
That's somewhat disingenuous Azathoth Jan 2020 #15
Not at all. Someone decides and the ACLU is correctly stating, its the parents right. BeckyDem Jan 2020 #16
Then I assume it's also the parents' right to send their gay kids to conversion therapy? Azathoth Jan 2020 #17
The ACLU cites their differences but the rights are not in question except by states. BeckyDem Jan 2020 #19
Right, so it's fine to ban parents from harming their kids as long as it fits your social agenda Azathoth Jan 2020 #20
wow. ok BeckyDem Jan 2020 #22
Right. Huge culture wars issue, both about what's right for minors Hortensis Jan 2020 #8
Thank you. Some things I've seen make it sound like any medical treatment is illegal. Patterson Jan 2020 #18
Kentucky is going to do something similar dustyscamp Jan 2020 #10
Outrageous. BeckyDem Jan 2020 #12
Russiapublicans want to turn U.S. into Putin's Russia. Enough evidence yet? Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #21

leftieNanner

(15,070 posts)
1. Gosh! A young person trying to understand who they are
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 08:53 PM
Jan 2020

is difficult enough. So now let's take away their healthcare!!!

WTF! Really? Do these people sit around trying to find new way to be cruel, or what?

bluestarone

(16,872 posts)
2. Seems like they open their book called (WE don't give a fuck)
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 08:55 PM
Jan 2020

Just to see who they can hurt today and every tomorrow!

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
5. The bill is a little more subtle than that
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 09:46 PM
Jan 2020

It bans puberty blockers, hormones and reassignment treatments for kids under 16. The theory being that adults shouldn't perform permanent life-altering procedures on kids before they are old enough to understand the true consequences of what they are doing and be reasonably sure that it is what they want.

It's a thorny issue. I've heard more than a few fairly liberal friends tell me that while they support trans rights, they think it's crazy for parents and doctors to medically transition kids.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
6. January 29, 2020. Ahead of today's full chamber vote on House Bill 1057,
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 10:07 PM
Jan 2020

legislation that would criminalize doctors for providing medically necessary care for transgender youth, some South Dakota legislators continue their attempts to codify discrimination against trans kids.

The ACLU of South Dakota opposes Senate Bill 88 and Senate Bill 93.

Senate Bill 88 would mandate that school counselors, school psychologists or social workers disclose to a parent any young person’s identification as transgender, exploration of gender identity or reference to potential symptoms of gender dysphoria. This bill could result in forced disclosure of someone’s trans or questioning status to a non-affirming parent which could result in the young person becoming homeless or physically harmed.”

“When transgender youth face discrimination and victimization at school, it can often lead to serious negative health and mental health consequences,” said Libby Skarin, policy director for the ACLU of South Dakota. “Senate Bill 88 infringes on the rights of privacy of youth and deters young people from seeking support from trusted adults in positions to counsel them.”

Senate Bill 93 would give a parent the right to refuse to consent to a range of health care treatment options, including mental health treatment, for transgender young people. Parents, however, already have broad constitutional and common law powers to make decisions about medical treatment for minor children in their care and custody that cannot be limited by legislation.

“Transgender youth are among society’s most at-risk populations,” Skarin said. “Senate Bill 93 just amounts to a proclamation of government disapproval of transgender young people and contributes to the already dangerous rates of family rejection for transgender youth.”

Like House Bill 1057, Senate Bill 88 and Senate Bill 93 would hurt transgender youth, violate federal law and expose South Dakota to legal liability. The ACLU of South Dakota is committed to ensuring that transgender South Dakotans can live openly without discrimination remains strong and urges South Dakota lawmakers to stop hurting transgender youth.

“It's time to stop these attacks on transgender youth and focus on issues that really matter to the people of South Dakota,” Skarin said.

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-south-dakota-urges-lawmakers-stop-hurting-transgender-youth

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
9. Not exactly an unbiased description
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 11:39 PM
Jan 2020

Not going to comment on the first bill because I don't know anything about it. The second bill, which I assumed the tweet was about, is opposed by the ACLU because

Parents, however, already have broad constitutional and common law powers to make decisions about medical treatment for minor children in their care and custody that cannot be limited 


This is patently wrong and the ACLU knows it. Just ask Jehovah's Witnesses who try to prevent their dying kids from receiving blood transfusions.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
11. You believe that is a fair comparison? Who should make the choices given the bias by the state
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 11:52 PM
Jan 2020

regarding transgenders?

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
13. It's a principle that parents' discretion over their kids' medical treatment doesn't allow them to
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:00 AM
Jan 2020

harm their kids.

It is definitely *not* an established fact that medically transitioning young kids is not harmful, or at least not highly risky.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
14. There are risks inherit in medical procedures, so who gets to make that choice?
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:03 AM
Jan 2020

A state that already discriminates against them in every other area?

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
15. That's somewhat disingenuous
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:21 AM
Jan 2020

The entire point of modern medical regulation is to protect patients from irresponsible treatment and/or unkown risks.

Imagine if parents came to a doctor with a child who had diarrhea and asked the doctor to cure her by removing her colon. The risks and potential for permanent harm to the child would far outweigh the alleged curative value of the procedure. No one asks "Well who gets to make that choice?" in a situation like that.

This is a thorny issu which is why the GOP are exploiting it. It is definitely not clear-cut that parents should have the right to block their children from entering puberty and permanently alter their sex characteristics.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
19. The ACLU cites their differences but the rights are not in question except by states.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:02 AM
Jan 2020

Exodus - Positions Against "Reparative Therapy" and the Ex-Gay Movement
https://www.aclu.org/other/exodus-positions-against-reparative-therapy-and-ex-gay-movement

Banned in many states. https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/conversion_therapy


( excerpt ) Prepubescent kids don't take hormones, and minors never get genital surgery.

A lot of scaremongering about health care for trans kids falsely suggests that doctors push kids into making permanent changes to their bodies. Every pediatrician who spoke with Live Science for this story emphasized that this isn't true and that they don't know of any doctors who would do that.

Kids who haven't yet reached the stage of puberty in which physical changes begin don't receive medication of any kind, Cronyn said. For kids who want them, those treatments don't begin until puberty begins in earnest. And the first stage of treatment isn't hormones. Instead, doctors prescribe kids puberty blockers, which can safely put those changes on "pause." That's the standard of care endorsed by both the Pediatric Endocrine Society (PES) and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH). (A representative for the American Academy of Pediatrics told Live Science that it has an official policy statement on the subject in the works, which it will publish later this year.)


There is some limited evidence that puberty blockers can impact height and bone density, but Cronyn said those risks are low enough that he's never encountered issues in his practice. More recent research has cast doubt on the idea of bone density issues.

In his clinic, Cronyn said, no child ever receives any medication related to transitioning unless they've been demonstrably "insistent, consistent and persistent" about their gender for at least six months. (Again, this in keeping with PES and WPATH guidelines.)

https://www.livescience.com/62893-transgender-kids-puberty-blockers-hrt-hormones.html

Azathoth

(4,607 posts)
20. Right, so it's fine to ban parents from harming their kids as long as it fits your social agenda
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:14 AM
Jan 2020

Trans activists and the ACLU are on precisely the wrong side of the issue here. LGB activists spent decades trying to prevent parents from being able subject their kids to potentially harmful treatments based on culturally-influenced views.

Now the push is for the exact opposite.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
8. Right. Huge culture wars issue, both about what's right for minors
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 11:27 PM
Jan 2020

and using minors as a wedge for attack on all transgender rights.

WaPo: A proposal to ban doctors from prescribing hormones or performing sex-reassignment surgery for transgender youth in South Dakota cleared a committee vote on Wednesday, the first state to take action on a wave of bills that restrict medical interventions affecting young people’s gender expression.

The bill makes it a misdemeanor for doctors to provide puberty blockers or other treatments affecting gender expression to children under the age of 16, carrying a maximum penalty of one year in jail and a fine of up to $2,000. The nearly four-hour hearing ended with an 8-to-5 vote of the House State Affairs Committee, with three Republicans breaking with their party to oppose the bill.

Lawmakers in several other states are hoping to follow suit with bills that punish doctors, and in some cases parents, who provide treatments for transgender or non-binary youth, with legislation pending in South Carolina, Colorado, Florida, Oklahoma and Missouri. Some of the bills equate providing the medical treatments to child abuse, allowing parents to be reported to child welfare agencies and doctors’ licenses to be suspended or revoked. State lawmakers in Kentucky, Georgia and Texas also have announced plans to file bills that limit transgender youths’ medical options.

The debate mirrored the nation’s culture wars, with Republican and Democratic lawmakers disputing not just medical facts, but also morality, parenting and the role of doctors in American life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2020/01/22/3ec1c824-3d26-11ea-8872-5df698785a4e_story.html?arc404=true

This is why we belong to the ACLU, though. We'll see them all in court.
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