where a reporter went up to people, read part of the Declaration of Independence, without telling them what it was, then asked if they would sign it. Many did not recognize the document and even felt it was "too radical" for them to sign.

Bet not much has changed since you saw it.

were without the context that intelligent evaluation requires, but the fun segments themselves.

After all, grabbing people on the street and setting them up, plus discarding any responses that didn't come across as stupid and reactionary enough to be entertaining, isn't exactly a contextual representation. The same people could have been "set up" to be far more supportive, even embracing.

But of course your point's too valid anyway. Democracy, human rights, all advances have always been the active creation of minorities, with lagging majorities accepting and wanting but not bothering to monitor and protect. You can't force people whose nature is to be far, far less interested in democracy than cars to pay attention. That's still and always the job of active minorities whose nature is to be interested.

to everyone although the list of grievances against George III is less so. I found it amusing that a good number of people thought it was "too radical" to sign.

but it's not in the nature of everyone to care about, or even really understand or agree with, such things. Those who think it's too radical now are counterparts of those who felt the very same way 250 years ago. This isn't all about ignorance. Many people do not agree with liberal principles.

We're learning that the embedding of important political principles in popular culture that conflict with people's own natures is far more shallow and fragile than realized. In any case, the less that liberal ideas feel right in people's guts and minds, the less they're likely to listen to, understand, and remember what they were assumed to learn in school.

Btw, the Dec is nothing to holy books. Probably a billion people know lack of capacity for religious faith is a dreadful, crippling flaw at best, something critical to being a worthy, moral person missing. Religious people would feel elevating the Dec above the Bible revealed a tragic lack of understanding and wisdom, and/or was amusing, according to their natures.

haven't read it through in a while but I remember that there is a list of grievances against abusive rulership.

Without abuse of power, we would probably still be a part of Great Britain. That is a major reason we are a country, in my opinion.

Remind folks what we're about.

I doubt many want to see the whole thing played out again against a new tyrannical leader.

Recited it as part of our local Bicentennial celebration.

As a student of political philosophy, I understand full well that we fought our Revolution over abuses of power by the king. "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it...when a long train of abuses and usurpations evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their DUTY, to throw off such forms..."

And conservatives went nuts with “whats this communist shit”?

I will never forget going to vote last election, the Trump supporters in the parking lot:

Vote wisely! Our constitution is at risk!

They didnt know how prophetic their warning

..... has been shown to be a lie, lie, lie.

(I actually got one reply, "Do you mind if I repost this on another board? I'll be sure to give attribution to you.&quot

Many years ago, a group of students took it around to different places as a "petition", and asked people to read it and sign the petition. They were amazed at the number of people who wouldn't sign "that revolutionary communist garbage. Overthrow the government, ideed!"

on Morning Edition.

reading specific passages. It literally does read like an "airing of grievances" against Georgie 3!

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/04/623836154/a-july-4-tradition-npr-reads-the-declaration-of-independence

A pretty pointed reminder that our Founding Fathers also had grievances they had to answer for.

A must hear moment

... my pocket sized constitution.

I bought 50 copies from the government printing office and handed them out to friends and family who I thought could use some "brushing up" on where this country came from, just so they'd know where it was heading. I don't believe any of them actually read it, since none of them ever remarked upon it or changed their political tune one iota.

especially in the south, could have had no idea that its "all men created equal" flight of rhetoric would actually be taken seriously by the lower classes or they would never have approved it. Quite a shock to a lot of them when they realized that the ordinary soldiers who'd fought over 9 years came home actually expecting to be equal under the law, able to vote as equals and even run for the offices ordained by god and nature for their betters.

And when they had to continue to fight to make that real, some of it was done with guns and rebellion, but most of it was written into law through the liberal Democratic-Republican Party begun by Madison and Jefferson et al.

Both seem to be ignored by Republicans.

Last edited Fri Jan 31, 2020, 10:06 AM - Edit history (1)

The idea that abuse of power is somehow not impeachable infuriates me to no end.

When Dershowitz let that bullshit fly out of his mouth he should have been immediately wrestled to the ground and jailed. That kind of stupidity can't be in the public interest...

It's why they were so broad on the reasons for impeachment. Abuse can take many shapes.

If the government no longer is a Democracy, that we have the right to remove and replace it?

I seem to recall that.

One of my favorite movies and a July 4th ritual with is watching 1776... It is a brilliant document and yes those grievances are basically impeaching George III for being a terrible ruler to the subjects he only wanted to exploit not really recognize! It should be noted he was also crazy, just sayin' . . .

[link:https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript|

In Congress, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Thanks for posting the whole thing.

Thank you for posting the entire Declaration. It still makes me misty-eyed to read and realize the American colonists were setting aside everything they knew and held dear to stand for their beliefs.

I call my Arizona Senators EVERY DAY! I know Martha McSelected-NOT-Elected is a tRump* handmaid and will never do the right thing. I always choke up when I tell whoever takes my call in Senator Sinema's office that this great democratic American experiment is fragile and needs to be treated with ultimate care.

And I cannot believe that this Republic could be brought down by the likes of tRump*. What a fucking scumbag.

I need to post some of this on facebook.

The long list of grievances were exaggerated to make a stronger case against the King.

I tend to put the kids in groups, and I assign 8-10 lines from the document. They are to rewrite the lines in today's english. When finished, one student from each group stands up in the order of the lines they have. In front of the class they read their new lines in order. Once you hear it spoken in familiar words it is pretty easy to understand.

It was required reading in Grad School. Finals in one class included detailed questions about who wrote (or was primarily responsible) for certain passages.

If you belong to the ACLU, they send copies every election year. I carry one of mine with me. It is always interesting to see the looks on peoples' faces when they see what I'm reading.