Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,705 posts)
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:00 PM Sep 2012

By Blaming The Film Aren't we Inadvertently Falling Into "They Hate Us For Our Freedoms" Argument?

The film was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back but the resentment has been building for decades if not generations. They hate us for our support for the state of Israel. They hate us because we prop up dictators like Mubarak, the Shah Of Iran, and the House Of Saud. They hate us because we are on their land.

I am not endorsing their hatred or countenancing it. I am just reporting an objective reality. If we weren't there some other great power would be because of the resources.

If "we" weren't there I doubt they would get angry about some crappy Islamophobic film and even if they did get angry "we" wouldn't be there for them to vent their anger on.

I don't know what the answer is. We need their oil at this time and they need someone to sell it to. That's what American presidents have to deal with. Try navigating through that thicket.

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
By Blaming The Film Aren't we Inadvertently Falling Into "They Hate Us For Our Freedoms" Argument? (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2012 OP
yes it's pretty similar. "They can't handle our free speech" limpyhobbler Sep 2012 #1
It's more like ... surrealAmerican Sep 2012 #2
Incitement to riot isn't covered a geek named Bob Sep 2012 #3
The film was an excuse for a professional attack. It's a red herring, though it's... porphyrian Sep 2012 #4
Not to mention we destroy their currency & inflate their food prices. JaneyVee Sep 2012 #5
The Ironic Thing Is If We Left They Would Miss Us DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2012 #6
They'd miss our money most of all. geek tragedy Sep 2012 #8
Eh, one doesn't see rioting in Central America over Piss Christ etc. geek tragedy Sep 2012 #7
+1000000000. This really needs to be its own OP. nt riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #9
but less invasion, occupation and bombing. HiPointDem Sep 2012 #14
We also fall into the trap of conceding philosophical ground to an imperialistic religion that RadiationTherapy Sep 2012 #10
Or our arrogance? loyalsister Sep 2012 #11
That has always been a weak argument. progressoid Sep 2012 #12
"If we weren't there some other great power would be..." TrollBuster9090 Sep 2012 #13
No quaker bill Sep 2012 #15
If someone doesn't like what you're saying CJCRANE Sep 2012 #16
K&R Carolina Sep 2012 #17

surrealAmerican

(11,340 posts)
2. It's more like ...
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:07 PM
Sep 2012

... "they hate us for abusing our freedoms." It sounds similar, but there's a big difference in that.

 

porphyrian

(18,530 posts)
4. The film was an excuse for a professional attack. It's a red herring, though it's...
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:09 PM
Sep 2012

...stirring people up.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,705 posts)
6. The Ironic Thing Is If We Left They Would Miss Us
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:15 PM
Sep 2012

At least parts of our soft power like dress, food, entertainment, and music.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
8. They'd miss our money most of all.
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:21 PM
Sep 2012

Morsi caved to Obama because the next aid disbursement was in grave doubt--as it should be.

Egypt's tourism industry will likely never recover its appeal for Western travelers.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
7. Eh, one doesn't see rioting in Central America over Piss Christ etc.
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:18 PM
Sep 2012

And they have a bigger reason to resent the USA.

Decades of political and economic underdevelopment, poor educational systems, and an oversized influence of religion in public like makes this kind of thing inevitable.

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts)
10. We also fall into the trap of conceding philosophical ground to an imperialistic religion that
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 09:41 PM
Sep 2012

forces its mythology on others via violent, murderous tantrums if they perceive they are inadequately catered to.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
11. Or our arrogance?
Sat Sep 15, 2012, 10:10 PM
Sep 2012

We have free speech and say everyone who doesn't is "backward" or "primitive." Maybe some aren't hating us for our freedoms or the film, but by reacting inappropriately to a basic insult to who they are.

I find our response to the idea of any reaction to the film to be naive at best mostly insensitive and degrading.
A culture where censorship is part of the government operation and everyday life may not be one where we want to live. But, it is one where people do live and try to raise a family and contribute where they can. Why do we Americans think it's okay to classify those people as primitive?
I think our presence arrogant though it may be is valued by the majority. But the people who resent it are ready to see anything as an extension of that arrogance and they become easy recruits for smaller angry groups and larger terrorist networks. I once read that contrary to the belief that poor uneducated people in the Middle East have not been the recruits for terrorist groups, but educated people who are financially better off.

They are the ones who are aware of the history and attitudes of their "opposition." Combine that with the "truth" as they come to know and internalize it and they are prepared to call up all acquired anger to what is offered as incentive.

progressoid

(49,827 posts)
12. That has always been a weak argument.
Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:47 AM
Sep 2012

There are a lot of counties that are as free or freer than the US. But they are rarely at the top of the hatred list. We always are, and it doesn't have anything to do with our freedoms.

"They Hate Us For Our Freedoms" is easy for RWers to grasp. And it fits on a bumper sticker.

TrollBuster9090

(5,953 posts)
13. "If we weren't there some other great power would be..."
Sun Sep 16, 2012, 12:59 AM
Sep 2012

Yes, some OTHER great power that doesn't have the foresight to start investing in alternatives to oil.

Which is why we should, as we've done historically, SHOW SOME FORESIGHT, start developing new energy technologies, and then pull out of the middle east. If China (my guess) wants to be the next energy hog, wasting its resources and throwing its people into one geopolitical struggle after another just to secure cheap sources of oil...LET THEM.

The bottom line is this: The United States BECAME a wealthy, powerful country by riding the wave of a NEW technology. Internal combustion, oil, gasoline. It wasn't a cheap energy source at first, but ironically WWI brought in ECONOMY OF SCALE to make it cheap.

Well, we've GOT the wealth at the moment...it's time to REINVEST IT! Reinvest it in the NEXT technological wave, and be the first in if we want to MAINTAIN our position in the world. We've been COASTING on the success, hard work and foresight of our grandparents for 70 years now. It's time for us to find out whether we actually have the drive they did, or if we're just a bunch of lazy, spoiled brats.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
16. If someone doesn't like what you're saying
Sun Sep 16, 2012, 07:24 AM
Sep 2012

they're going to want you to stop saying it.

It's a natural reaction for some people to call for something to be banned if they don't like it.

Carolina

(6,960 posts)
17. K&R
Sun Sep 16, 2012, 07:47 AM
Sep 2012

I couldn't agree with you more.

Their hatred is justified. The US had meddled in their countries for years, ever since WWII... installing and/or propping up dictators, invading and stealing resources, and supporting Israel, right or WRONG. If any of us lived in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt and now droned Pakistan ... we would likely have a simmering hatred for the US that could easily erupt in protests or worse. With impunity and without concern, the US has killed untold innocents in other lands.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»By Blaming The Film Aren...