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milestogo

(16,829 posts)
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 07:46 PM Jun 2020

The militarization of the police is not unrelated to the citizen arms buildup.

I believe that there should be a clear distinction between guns available to law enforcement, and guns available to the public. If there is no distinction, then police forces and communities end up spending their resources on heavily armed SWAT teams and training.

When I was growing up there were no school shootings, no police in schools, no neighborhood SWAT teams. Now we have active shooter drills at schools, a police presence, and military equipment ready to be used at a moment's notice. The police are trained for war instead of for conflict resolution and diplomacy.

The gun problem is part of the law enforcement issue. If the police are afraid of citizens, they aren't going to perform well in lots of situations. I'd be scared to death to be a LEO, with all the guns out there now.

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The militarization of the police is not unrelated to the citizen arms buildup. (Original Post) milestogo Jun 2020 OP
ok partly.... Locrian Jun 2020 #1
Wow. Thanks for posting. milestogo Jun 2020 #2
Aside from the police having fully automatic weapons there hasn't really been a distinction between Dial H For Hero Jun 2020 #3
I had read somewhere.... Locrian Jun 2020 #4

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
1. ok partly....
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 07:51 PM
Jun 2020

but more due to the general surplus and proliferation of the military industrial complex


Thanks primarily to the Pentagon's 1033 program, which allows law enforcement agencies to get their hands on Department of Defense technology, and the Bush-era War on Terror, American police have received a startling amount of heavy-duty, military-grade hardware.

In fact, between 1998 and 2014, the dollar value of military hardware sent to police departments skyrocketed from $9.4 million to a startling $796.8 million.


https://fee.org/articles/the-militarization-of-americas-police-a-brief-history/

Crime in general has gone DOWN. US imperialism and expansion, war on terror however - along with MASSIVE increases in defense spending are record highs

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
3. Aside from the police having fully automatic weapons there hasn't really been a distinction between
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 08:15 PM
Jun 2020

the guns available to the police and those commonly owned by civilians for some time. In the 1970's (just for instance) police commonly had a .38 or .357 revolver for a sidearm, and a short barreled shotgun if things really went south. At the same time, the guns commonly used for self defense by civilians would be the same (AR-15's were available then, but not nearly as popular as today).

Today, a police officer will almost invariably carry a high capacity 9mm pistol, and have an AR-15 in their patrol cruiser. Civilians will have the same.

So things haven't really changed much in the last 50 years, in that law enforcement and the public were armed similarly to each other then, just as they are now. If anything, things have tipped slightly in law enforcement's favor, given that many states have bans on assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

In 1967 you could order an AR-15 through the mail without the slightest bit of paperwork, and we didn't have school shootings (to speak of) then. So whatever's changed, it's not the availability of guns.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
4. I had read somewhere....
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:22 AM
Jun 2020

That part of the issue was how they fund the police.

The actual drop in a lot of crimes left them with trying to find ways to justify their cost etc.
Hence the rise in "revenue" based activities like arresting and processing people en mass to generate funds.
Also the increase in laws designed to allow them to seize assets etc.
Then the "gifts" from the military of surplus (excessively funded military) equipment.
Increase of military style training vs negotiation, decrease in standards of hiring cops, etc
Add in the infiltration of the white power movements into the cops, "bad" apples, bad training, bad leadership, etc

I would say as well an ongoing lobbying or propaganda that we have to be "tough on crime" which led to a further shift in the way we think of police. GOP of course the worst but Dems also guilty of not wanting to appear "soft".

All rolls into an organization designed to prey on the average citizen, not "serve and protect".


Now the gun proliferation and gun DEATHS (shootings, etc) etc - that's a separate issue. I remember when you could buy an M1 at Sears off the shelf (not locked up!). However even given the large number of guns in US the google search I did shows it going down. Maybe the past was people who really did hunt and now ?? I do think it's changed 'culture-wise' but that can get into a whole deep discussion. I also think that it's far easier to buy guns than it used to be (aside from "hunting rifles" - which aren't much different). The way they're marketed now is much more "accessible" and "friendly" for the average person than it used to be.





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