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live love laugh

(13,009 posts)
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:31 PM Jun 2020

I went to buy a gun yesterday.

I hate guns.

I'm in Illinois. I got a required Firearm owner’s ID card about three years ago but never took the classes for conceal carry or tried to buy a gun.

After all of the looting, and violence I became scared. So after doing my weekly grocery shopping very early in the morning--I was done by 8:30 AM--I decided to stop in the nearby gun store. The lot was full so when I entered and saw about 50 people waiting in line that early in the morning, I immediately turned around and left. Crazy. It felt like I was in a Covid incubator.

I drove to a Cabela’s sports store much farther away. When I took number 75 they were waiting on number 31. l settled in for a long wait while I observed the customers--old, young, men, women and their kids, I was surprised at the diversity of buyers.

Two hours later when my number was called, the sales person told me that they were out of most pistols that he recommends to first-time female users like myself. He didn’t know when they’d get more. Besides, he said, even if they were in stock there’s an ammo shortage. He showed me two guns that were available. I held one as he showed me how much strength is needed to cock the gun, or pull the thing back to load the bullet (I don’t know the name). The other was bigger and heavier. Did I mention that I hate guns? Just holding the heavy weapons is indescribably revolting.

I talked to friends and one level headed person reminded me that she’d read somewhere that a high percentage of gun owners end up being shot with their own weapons and that I might rethink the investment. Im doing just that. There is a class coming up in July that the salesperson told me about. I may attend.

My takeaway is that people everywhere--even the ones who look the meekest are buying guns. If I were a criminal I’d be scared. America is armed.

I hate guns.

146 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I went to buy a gun yesterday. (Original Post) live love laugh Jun 2020 OP
If you hate guns, I wouldn't buy one. roamer65 Jun 2020 #1
That is very true. dware Jun 2020 #4
America is heavily armed and it's not hunters captain queeg Jun 2020 #2
The 3% owns 50% of the guns" is totally made up. former9thward Jun 2020 #55
US study charts rise of hardcore super owners mercuryblues Jun 2020 #67
Total BS "study" former9thward Jun 2020 #88
I would recommend taking the class, dware Jun 2020 #3
For home defense... albacore Jun 2020 #70
Not if you want to live there afterwards. ManiacJoe Jun 2020 #132
With a shotgun or something, you'd be cleaning blood and guts off the walls and such... albacore Jun 2020 #133
I don't think you should get one. Get some good pepper spray. Patterson Jun 2020 #5
My heart goes out to you... BlueIdaho Jun 2020 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author CentralMass Jun 2020 #7
Not going to join you. Warpy Jun 2020 #8
If it is for home defense.. Squidly Jun 2020 #9
The biggest gun myth ever sarisataka Jun 2020 #11
Whatever.... Squidly Jun 2020 #13
Do tell- are you an FBI ballistics technician? sarisataka Jun 2020 #17
Are you? Squidly Jun 2020 #20
Nope, I can't quote muzzle velocities or the effects of bullet spin on terminal ballistics sarisataka Jun 2020 #28
This video will prove my point... Squidly Jun 2020 #30
Wow 😮 the video really shows the differences. nt live love laugh Jun 2020 #36
It also shows Squidly Jun 2020 #41
Pretty sure that's the Hague Convention(s), not Geneva. n/t sl8 Jun 2020 #69
You are correct Squidly Jun 2020 #76
Excellent video. Thanks. Owl Jun 2020 #37
That argument got killed pretty quick! Nature Man Jun 2020 #46
Ah shredded chicken for breakfast... sarisataka Jun 2020 #62
Lol Squidly Jun 2020 #68
I was not aware of that sarisataka Jun 2020 #90
I know absolutely nothing about guns LeftInTX Jun 2020 #81
Happy to answer your questions. Dial H For Hero Jun 2020 #86
It all comes down to what state and where in that state you are hunting Squidly Jun 2020 #97
I think only a handful of areas in a few states in the midwest still mandate shotguns for deer. Dial H For Hero Jun 2020 #102
A good video, it helps illustrate sarisataka Jun 2020 #92
In fairness, in the movie "Death Becomes Her" this happens to Goldie Hawn's character after Dial H For Hero Jun 2020 #38
Oh wow... Squidly Jun 2020 #42
Love that movie sarisataka Jun 2020 #63
You certainly know this... albacore Jun 2020 #134
not really into guns at all (and they are basically illegal to own and keep in your house here in Celerity Jun 2020 #52
Were shotguns responsible for all the amputations in the civil war? LeftInTX Jun 2020 #82
No EX500rider Jun 2020 #96
Especially if they were using round balls and smooth bore rifles Squidly Jun 2020 #100
No, it was because the Minie ball bullet was a large diameter and slow moving. NutmegYankee Jun 2020 #144
While a shotgun loaded with buckshot will do plenty of damage, PTWB Jun 2020 #107
I should have said Squidly Jun 2020 #120
I didn't know that about 38 special.. PTWB Jun 2020 #125
A shotgun has one serious drawback as a primary home defense weapon. Kaleva Jun 2020 #145
Think of a home defense gun as if it were a kitchen fire extinguisher Kaleva Jun 2020 #146
Wise choice at this time sarisataka Jun 2020 #10
Best advice ever. Thanks 🙏🏽 nt live love laugh Jun 2020 #12
You are welcome sarisataka Jun 2020 #24
This is why I don't buy a gun LeftInTX Jun 2020 #84
Very well said. Caliman73 Jun 2020 #27
Best answer. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2020 #54
That is such good advice Maeve Jun 2020 #61
Very grounded and sensible post, thanks for writing this up sarisataka Devil Child Jun 2020 #65
Unfortuately many people think just owning a gun is sufficient self defense ripcord Jun 2020 #74
Wow. Can't believe I'm typing this on DU. But understand GulfCoast66 Jun 2020 #14
Well said Squidly Jun 2020 #15
Best post in this thread kcr Jun 2020 #108
You hate guns and you bought one anyway? PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2020 #16
No I didn't buy because they were out of stock live love laugh Jun 2020 #33
I'm going with good locks, a reliable security system and an always-charged cellphone StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #18
Someone breaking down my door at 2am...what will the cel phone do? EX500rider Jun 2020 #98
I doubt anyone will be able to kick in my steel security door StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #103
Assuming you have no other points of entry like windows that should help. EX500rider Jun 2020 #105
Yeeeeah, if hate guns u probably shouldnt get one, u have to practice a lot with a handgun to learn Baclava Jun 2020 #19
I dislike guns Olafjoy Jun 2020 #21
I think you''re in the wrong area rockfordfile Jun 2020 #22
Huh? live love laugh Jun 2020 #34
I have a super soaker to smite my enemies with. hunter Jun 2020 #23
Paintball would probably be better..LOL LeftInTX Jun 2020 #85
I hate guns too..My husband was in the military for helpisontheway Jun 2020 #25
Get A Dog Instead ChoppinBroccoli Jun 2020 #26
I hate guns too, but I have used a shotgun to kill a big snake. Never txwhitedove Jun 2020 #29
In 1966 I qualified on everything the Army had up to the Ron Green Jun 2020 #31
Simpler this way G_j Jun 2020 #32
That's the same argument many who refuse to wear masks make. Kaleva Jun 2020 #51
Are you equating wearing a mask with owning a gun? Ron Green Jun 2020 #58
Do you equate wearing a mask with living in fear? Kaleva Jun 2020 #83
I certainly wear a mask, and I don't see how that's living in fear. Ron Green Jun 2020 #94
I do both and I do not live in fear. Kaleva Jun 2020 #119
+1 - "I choose not to live in fear." I was going to recommend a class in meditation. c-rational Jun 2020 #71
Are you asserting that every person who chooses to own a firearm does so out of fear? Dial H For Hero Jun 2020 #95
No. People own guns for target shooting. Perhaps some young people Ron Green Jun 2020 #124
"I would never own a gun now, because I choose not to live in fear." EX500rider Jun 2020 #99
No one ever stole a smoke detecter to murder anyone kcr Jun 2020 #109
It's not that hard to properly secure a weapon. Also I was responding to it being out of fear. EX500rider Jun 2020 #110
If it's properly secured, then how is it effective? kcr Jun 2020 #111
Biometric safes are fast opening. nt EX500rider Jun 2020 #115
It's still opening kcr Jun 2020 #116
Someone kicking in my front door is not near my bedroom, I will have time, thxs. nt EX500rider Jun 2020 #118
Well, hey, I guess if you're lucky enough to live in a 12,000 sq ft mansion kcr Jun 2020 #126
Didn't say I did, but someone getting from my front toor to my bedroom in the dark will be all... EX500rider Jun 2020 #129
You mentioned "being prepared," but you may have a different Ron Green Jun 2020 #128
I never heard of a suicide from a smoke alarm or fire extinguisher or a kid killing themself...... Patterson Jun 2020 #112
Again, that has zero to do with whether all gun owners have a gun out of fear. nt EX500rider Jun 2020 #113
Im sorry Squidly Jun 2020 #122
... kcr Jun 2020 #127
And yet practiaclly gun free Japan has a higher rate then the US. nt EX500rider Jun 2020 #138
True, but in all honesty, Japan has an odd-ball counting system. ManiacJoe Jun 2020 #143
Don't feel bad vercetti2021 Jun 2020 #35
They do make alternate self defense kaotikross Jun 2020 #39
For protection on the street, pepper spray. safeinOhio Jun 2020 #40
At my previous job the head of security was an ex NYC police. He said he defused more problems mitch96 Jun 2020 #59
a cannister of bear spray and onethatcares Jun 2020 #43
Have you ever had to take a human life? Nature Man Jun 2020 #44
That is why I favor something that won't kill a person. Blue_true Jun 2020 #123
Guns are for killing. Nature Man Jun 2020 #130
Many people think that complete strangers will harm them. Blue_true Jun 2020 #131
IF you buy a gun, DO get trained on how to use it. cwydro Jun 2020 #45
I love it when all the gun nuts come out on the DU..... where's the popcorn......... mitch96 Jun 2020 #47
I resent that you lump us liberal gun owners into the gun nut category Squidly Jun 2020 #73
As you said in your previous post mitch96 Jun 2020 #89
Anybody thinking of buying a gun ought to read sarisataka's post #10 Kaleva Jun 2020 #48
I hate Guns, too The Finn Al Analysis Jun 2020 #49
When I tell you I still have no interest in buying a gun... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #50
Don't buy a gun if you hate guns. You'll never use it safely. WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2020 #53
Don't buy one if you hate it that much. Happy Hoosier Jun 2020 #56
Yes plenty of 1st timers are buying guns - been since early March. If your revolted... jmg257 Jun 2020 #57
Good for you, you are wise to take steps to protect yourself as no one else will Devil Child Jun 2020 #60
Lol! Nt USALiberal Jun 2020 #93
Save your money. Really. MineralMan Jun 2020 #64
"If I were a criminal I'd be scared. America is armed.' Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #66
Sorry, intentional murder rates are way higher then accidental homicde. nt EX500rider Jun 2020 #139
Intentional murder can easily be carried out by an evildoer Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #141
I have firearms to protect my life, not my home. EX500rider Jun 2020 #142
What looting and violence has been inflicted on private homes? brooklynite Jun 2020 #72
None that I know of. MineralMan Jun 2020 #79
People that have not used guns should not buy guns. What do you think a gun will do? A mob is Demsrule86 Jun 2020 #75
Yesterday, I decided to get one before election day ecstatic Jun 2020 #77
I also hate what's been done with the second amendment. live love laugh Jun 2020 #80
"It was much better. " EX500rider Jun 2020 #101
That reminds me of an argument I've had on more than one occasion wherein someone asserts Dial H For Hero Jun 2020 #104
I question the validity of your data. live love laugh Jun 2020 #136
The chart goes back to the 1700's nt EX500rider Jun 2020 #137
See my comment - #71. I would suggest trying a class in meditation or philosophy. Learn to c-rational Jun 2020 #78
A firearm can be a great self defense tool with proper training of course madville Jun 2020 #87
I'm seeing a lot of posts like this, and I'm not criticizing them at all Polybius Jun 2020 #91
I actually hate guns kcr Jun 2020 #106
I'm curious as to what they recommended to you. aikoaiko Jun 2020 #114
It does seem to be mainly cowardly types that want to feel tough that want guns JI7 Jun 2020 #117
Just buy a can of bear spray and make sure that you Blue_true Jun 2020 #121
Just from reading your post, may I recommend Dan Jun 2020 #135
If I were any sane American I'd be scared. lagomorph777 Jun 2020 #140

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
1. If you hate guns, I wouldn't buy one.
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:35 PM
Jun 2020

You will probably never be comfortable with it, IMO.

If you do buy one, educate yourself on the possible liability problems using it can create.

dware

(12,092 posts)
4. That is very true.
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:42 PM
Jun 2020

Even if you clearly shot someone in self defense, you are still going to be put through the wringer and spend thousands of dollars on attorney's fees.

captain queeg

(10,036 posts)
2. America is heavily armed and it's not hunters
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:38 PM
Jun 2020

The thing that scares me is 3% of the people own 50% of the guns, so a lot of people own multiple guns. I have a gun in my storage room that I haven’t shot in 25 yrs.

mercuryblues

(14,491 posts)
67. US study charts rise of hardcore super owners
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:48 AM
Jun 2020

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/19/us-gun-ownership-survey

Americans own an estimated 265m guns, more than one gun for every American adult, according to the most definitive portrait of US gun ownership in two decades. But the new survey estimates that 133m of these guns are concentrated in the hands of just 3% of American adults – a group of super-owners who have amassed an average of 17 guns each.

The unpublished Harvard/Northeastern survey result summary, obtained exclusively by the Guardian and the Trace, estimates that America’s gun stock has increased by 70m guns since 1994. At the same time, the percentage of Americans who own guns decreased slightly from 25% to 22%.


Large increase in handgun stock
The new survey, conducted in 2015 by public health researchers from Harvard and Northeastern universities, also found that the proportion of female gun owners is increasing as fewer men own guns. These women were more likely to own a gun for self-defense than men, and more likely to own a handgun only.ian.com/us-news/2016/sep/19/us-gun-ownership-survey

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
88. Total BS "study"
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:48 PM
Jun 2020
"The unpublished Harvard/Northeastern survey".

Wow, I wonder why its unpublished? Maybe because there is no credibility to how they got their data. How did they get their data? By having college kids call up strangers and ask them how many guns were in their home and a bunch of other personal information. What person in their right mind would answer those questions? Why didn't they just ask them the combination to the home safe and all their credit card info? Just as useful.....

dware

(12,092 posts)
3. I would recommend taking the class,
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:39 PM
Jun 2020

but if you hate firearms as much as you say, please, don't buy one, if it ever came to the point where you were forced to use it, you would probably hesitate and then the firearm would probably be taken away and possibly used on you.

There are other ways to defend yourself with non lethal weapons, like pepper spray.

albacore

(2,387 posts)
133. With a shotgun or something, you'd be cleaning blood and guts off the walls and such...
Fri Jun 5, 2020, 02:30 AM
Jun 2020

"If you're wondering how to clean pepper spray off your walls, be grateful - the immediate threat to your safety is over and now your biggest worry is cleaning. Fortunately, it's possible to clean up pepper spray with the right techniques.

First, make sure you're wearing gloves, safety glasses and something to cover your nose and mouth. Open doors and windows to increase ventilation, then use oil-free soaps such as dishwashing liquid to clean the pepper spray off walls. For rugs or furniture, scrub the area, let the soap sit for 15 minutes and then rinse it off with cold water. If you happen to get any pepper spray on your exposed skin, use milk followed by oil-free soap to wash off the spray.

Protecting yourself means being prepared no matter what the circumstances. Pepper spray can be just as effective indoors as it is outdoors, if you know what you're doing."

https://www.sabrered.com/blog/using-pepper-spray-indoors#:~:text=Open%20doors%20and%20windows%20to,it%20off%20with%20cold%20water.

BlueIdaho

(13,582 posts)
6. My heart goes out to you...
Wed Jun 3, 2020, 11:58 PM
Jun 2020

If you are not prepared to live the rest of your life with the knowledge that you shot and killed another human being, this may not be your best option.

Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
8. Not going to join you.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:00 AM
Jun 2020

I'll never own one, not with my eyesight. I know somebody would just take it away from me and shoot me with it. Or I'd shoot myself. Those things are dangerous to have around, and stuff is just not that important that I'm all that invested in defending it with deadly force, YMMV.

I live in the city, where problem bears are dealt with by a call to animal control. Outside the city, people need those shotguns to get bears away from any garbage. I'm not anti gun, some people need them.

I just won't have one in my home. No thanks. Too high a risk.

Squidly

(783 posts)
9. If it is for home defense..
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:01 AM
Jun 2020

..forget the pistol and get a shotgun, open choke and load it with 00 buckshot. It will stop anything and you really do not need to aim like you do a pistol. Availability of shotguns and ammo are better than most pistols.

If you are set on a pistol, stay away from .380 and .38 special since those rounds are almost impossible to find right now. Your best bet would be something in 9mm since although its getting scarce, that round is still fairly easy to find.

Im not advocating for violence, but if you really do feel like you need protection, that is what I would reccomend.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
11. The biggest gun myth ever
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:19 AM
Jun 2020

is how far a shotgun will spread the shot.

After reading many articles, some friends and I when up to a cabin where we could experiment.

We used a Remington 870 with an 18 inch barrel. The most typical shotgun you can find with the shortest legal barrel length.

What we found was at 12 feet or less (what you would be at in a home defense situation) the most the buck shot spread was 4 inches. 90% of the time you could cover the whole pattern with the palm of your hand.

We needed 50 feet before the shot was spreading 6-10 inches.

Now obviously 3-4 inches is much more than 9 millimetres but to use a shotgun effectively you definitely need to aim it.

Squidly

(783 posts)
13. Whatever....
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:34 AM
Jun 2020

I know a little more about these things than your weekend experiment will ever know.

Put it this way...you shoot someone in the leg or arm or even body with a pistol round they more than likely will keep coming at you...you hit them ANYWHERE with buckshot and its going to stop them dead in their tracks...it will blow that arm or leg off and leave a hole in their body the size of a volleyball.

A pistol round you need to be much more accurate....and that is a fact. So, aiming with a shotgun is much more insignificant.

And let me add...
Its not about the spread of the pattern, its about the energy behind the load. Theres a reason the military has used shotguns for close quarter combat since WWI.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
17. Do tell- are you an FBI ballistics technician?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:45 AM
Jun 2020

have you ever seen a person with their arm blown off or a hole the size of a volleyball? I have seen people who were hit with weapons more powerful than a shotgun and did not have wounds like that.

I have also seen wounds like that but it took something much bigger than a shotgun.

Are you of the school that believes a shotgun can knock a person back 5 feet? Yeah, that won't happen either.

Self defense depends far more on the person than the weapon.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
28. Nope, I can't quote muzzle velocities or the effects of bullet spin on terminal ballistics
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:07 AM
Jun 2020

But I have been around such people and picked up a few things. They taught me how to set up tests to evaluate some basic properties.

I have been handling firearms for over three decades and have been an instructor for much of that time. I seen first hand what firearms can do to the human body.

I am glad you do not believe that myth. Many people do not understand the physics of why it only happens in Hollywood

Squidly

(783 posts)
30. This video will prove my point...
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:22 AM
Jun 2020

Warning...dont watch this if you like whole fryer chickens...

[link:

|

Taking the AR-15 out of the equation, I think I know what platform I would rather go with IF I felt the need.

Squidly

(783 posts)
41. It also shows
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:50 AM
Jun 2020

Why hollow point rounds are deemed illegal in the Geneva Convention...not saying it doesn't happen, but almost all military rounds are full metal jacket, meaning the lead is fully encased in copper.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
62. Ah shredded chicken for breakfast...
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:20 AM
Jun 2020

I have to go to work. I'll watch this later and we can continue the discussion

Squidly

(783 posts)
68. Lol
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:14 AM
Jun 2020

You know, they actually made a shotgun round for bird hunting at one time that had salt and pepper and seasonings loaded in the shell along with the shot...hahaha...diddnt last long after people figured that all the spices pretty much burned off in the initial blast anyway, but it was a funny novelty nonetheless

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
90. I was not aware of that
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:12 PM
Jun 2020

Combine that shell with a dragon round- in one shot you kill the bird, season it and cook it. Ready to eat

LeftInTX

(24,560 posts)
81. I know absolutely nothing about guns
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 11:23 AM
Jun 2020

I fired one, only once in my life. It was 50 years ago, when a neighbor kid was duck hunting - he let me fire his gun. (I lived in WI and we had lakes in our neighborhood)

It think it was some sort of shotgun with red ammo.

Now I was a nurse and I know that needle gauge number runs opposite of barrel diameter...So it the same with guns? Is 12 gauge larger than 22 gauge?

Would a shotgun be preferred for deer hunting?

Let's face it, I wouldn't want to shoot deer with that hollow AR-15, mainly because of all the internal damage. Are all AR-15 bullets hollow? What does the 15 stand for in AR-15?

(I know that AR-15 is the preferred firearm for feral hogs, but that's a different story..LOL)

How about millimeter in pistols There is 9 millimeter...are there others?

OK....I'm probably driving you nuts with stupid questions...LOL



 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
86. Happy to answer your questions.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:08 PM
Jun 2020
Now I was a nurse and I know that needle gauge number runs opposite of barrel diameter...So it the same with guns? Is 12 gauge larger than 22 gauge?


Exactly so. The gauge of a shotgun is defined as the number of lead balls of size equal to the approximate diameter of the bore that it takes to weigh one pound. The exception to this is the .410 shotgun, which has a bore of .41 inches.

Would a shotgun be preferred for deer hunting?


Typically not, since shotguns are very short ranged. A rifle would normally be used, although exceptionally powerful handguns are sometimes employed. Exception: In a few states, shotguns are actually required for deer hunting, the idea being that because the states in question are densely populated, only a short range weapon is safe. This sort of regulation is becoming quite rare, though.

Let's face it, I wouldn't want to shoot deer with that hollow AR-15, mainly because of all the internal damage. Are all AR-15 bullets hollow? What does the 15 stand for in AR-15?


Actually, most AR-15's aren't legal for deer hunting because they aren't powerful enough. The exception being those chambered in cartridges more powerful than 5.56x45mm, the original and still most common cartridge for that gun. A typical deer rifle has twice (or more) power than a typical AR-15. As for hollow points, they're actually pretty uncommon in rifle bullets.

AR-15 stands for Armalite Rifle Model 15. The "15" was just the 15th model in a sequence of rifles.


How about millimeter in pistols There is 9 millimeter...are there others?


Yes. Lots and lots of them.

The 9x19mm Parabellum (commonly referred to as simply "9mm" these days) has become the most popular handgun cartridge in the United States.

OK....I'm probably driving you nuts with stupid questions...LOL


Not at all. Those of us who are a bit, um, enthusiastic about this subject can ramble on indefinitely on it. It's a bit like asking some basic question about cars to a gearhead. An hour later, you're thinking "Shut up shut up shut up!"




Squidly

(783 posts)
97. It all comes down to what state and where in that state you are hunting
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:44 PM
Jun 2020

Shotguns for deer are actually quite lethal. You do not use shot, but what they call a slug. Its a single bullet that fires from the shotgun. Slugs are accurate out to around 100 yards, which is more than enough if you are hunting in woods or heavy brush areas. You are correct though in saying shotgun only zones are getting more rare, but they are still quite effective.

As for the .223 or 5.56 (AR rounds mainly) some states allow them, but not many. Same goes with a .17 HMR and your .22 firearms.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
102. I think only a handful of areas in a few states in the midwest still mandate shotguns for deer.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:55 PM
Jun 2020

Most of them that used to have such restrictions now allow straight-walled cartridges such as the new .350 Legend, which is proving quite popular. I'd certainly pick an AR-15 in .350 Legend over a slug gun were I to want to hunt deer in such an area.

But hunting is too much like work for my taste.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
92. A good video, it helps illustrate
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:28 PM
Jun 2020

What firearms do to tissue.

Reading over our conversation, I think I may have given you the impression I believed a handgun did more damage than a shotgun. Nothing could be further from the truth; shotguns are devastating

My point was that a hit from the smallest gun will do more than a miss from the largest. As the video showed, he did not fire from the hip to blow the chicken away but took aim.

Shotguns are intimidating to novices so may not be the best choice for home defense. On the other hand, it may be an excellent choice if the wielder is comfortable using one.

And to further elaborate, often no gun is the best choice. I believe many people buy out of emotion and there are too many armed people out there.

As I indicated below to our OP, after the questions I ask to a potential gun buyer many, if not most, say 'that's not for me'. Good, I have done my job as a responsible firearms instructor. Regardless if they decide to proceed with learning and perhaps buying a gun, we will also discuss alternative active and passive security options. If a gun is the last option of defense there definitely need to be options that came before.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
38. In fairness, in the movie "Death Becomes Her" this happens to Goldie Hawn's character after
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:46 AM
Jun 2020

being shot with a shotgun:

v

The film's practically a documentary.

albacore

(2,387 posts)
134. You certainly know this...
Fri Jun 5, 2020, 02:36 AM
Jun 2020

..but, at night or low-light conditions, the muzzle flash would blind you after the first shotgun round anyway. Most other firearms, too.

Celerity

(42,666 posts)
52. not really into guns at all (and they are basically illegal to own and keep in your house here in
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:24 AM
Jun 2020

Stockholm and London anyway) BUT after watching your video and then looking around I know what I would get for home protection IF we ever lived in a place where it was legal and we felt we needed it.

Simple, basic tactical shotgun (and they go for only 750, 850 USD, not the MSRP)

Mossberg 12-Gauge 930 Tactical - 8 Shot SPX - Pistol Grip


#85370

https://www.mossberg.com/product/930-tactical-8-shot-spx-pistol-grip-85370/



or

#85223 (different colourway, but all black would probably be best)

https://www.mossberg.com/product/930-tactical-8-shot-spx-pistol-grip-85223/




thanks for posting the video and all the info

cheers

LeftInTX

(24,560 posts)
82. Were shotguns responsible for all the amputations in the civil war?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 11:31 AM
Jun 2020

I know the ammo they used basically ripped extremities.

EX500rider

(10,532 posts)
96. No
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:43 PM
Jun 2020

The Springfield Model 1861 was the most widely used rifle of the civil war. It is a rifled musket.
They mostly amputated to avoid infection and gangrene I believe.

Squidly

(783 posts)
100. Especially if they were using round balls and smooth bore rifles
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:50 PM
Jun 2020

Those rounds will tumble and roll through the air, so when they hit flesh and bone they cause all sorts of nasty damage and wounds. You are right about the infections, also if a soldier came into the field hospital with shattered bones from being hit, they really did not have a way to repair that damage then they would just amputate and not even try in most cases.

NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
144. No, it was because the Minie ball bullet was a large diameter and slow moving.
Sat Jun 6, 2020, 12:59 AM
Jun 2020

The large slow moving bullet would just shatter bones into fragments, and without the medical technology to fix such damage, amputation was the only choice. Modern bullets are actually less damaging to bone, and the higher velocities also make modern gunshot wounds more sterile.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
107. While a shotgun loaded with buckshot will do plenty of damage,
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 06:29 PM
Jun 2020

It is a myth that you don’t have to aim, or have to aim less, than with a handgun or other firearm .. at least for home defense purposes.

A shotgun’s spread will not come into play at home defense purposes. If grab the shotgun next to your bed and fire at the intruder coming through your bedroom door, you’re going to need to be just as accurate as if you were firing with a small caliber handgun or rifle.

I think the AR-15 with frangible ammunition is best for a home defense scenario - plenty of ammo capacity, less wall over penetration with proper ammunition selection, low recoil, easy to equip with a light so that your target is illuminated and you can see what you’re shooting at, etc.

I own a 12 ga and an AR-15 amongst several others including handguns and hunting rifles. I’d grab the AR every time.

I think a 38 special in a well made revolver would be adequate for a beginner who didn’t want to take the time to learn and become proficient with the AR platform.

Squidly

(783 posts)
120. I should have said
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:50 PM
Jun 2020

That you dont have to aim as much...meaning not as accurately as a hand gun.

Maybe im a crack shot, idk, but I can hit a silhouette target much easier and quicker from the hip with a pistol-grip shotgun than I can with a handgun. Maybe its just me.

Also, stay away from .38 Special since the ammunition is almost impossible to come by right now. My work gives me unique knowledge on this, and trust me, there is very little of it to be found in the marketplace.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
125. I didn't know that about 38 special..
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:05 PM
Jun 2020

I have a few boxes for one revolver but haven't been shopping for it in years.

Kaleva

(36,147 posts)
145. A shotgun has one serious drawback as a primary home defense weapon.
Sat Jun 6, 2020, 01:22 AM
Jun 2020

It's impractical to have it on your person or within reach 24/7 while at home.

Now, a shotgun or any long gun may be a good choice if one believes that the the threat is very minimal and the chances of having to use a gun for home defense is so low that having the primary home defense weapon locked in a gun safe would be adequate.

I'm carrying a .38 special revolver in a holster hooked on my belt right now as I type this. When I go to bed, I'll put the gun and holster in a the gun box beneath my bed. When I get up, I'll retrieve the gun and bring it with me when I go to the bathroom. Afterwards, I'll get dressed and I'll carry the gun on me all day, concealed by wearing an extra tall shirt. I couldn't do this with a shotgun.

Kaleva

(36,147 posts)
146. Think of a home defense gun as if it were a kitchen fire extinguisher
Sat Jun 6, 2020, 11:56 AM
Jun 2020

If on thinks there may be almost no chance of a fire in kitchen while cooking, then it'd be okay to keep the fire extinguisher up in a closet in the bedroom or down in the basement or even out in the garage. Stored in a closet, the basement or garage, one could have a large model fire extinguisher. Now, if one thinks there may be a chance of a fire in the kitchen, you'd want one located there so one can quickly get to it if needed.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
10. Wise choice at this time
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:04 AM
Jun 2020

When people ask me about which gun they should buy I ask the following questions:

How familiar are you with guns? If it is a novice (and it usually is) I tell them you must be willing to learn to handle a gun confidently. It is not necessary to like them nor it is a bad thing if they still make you a little nervous. You just cannot be fearful. It is like handling a dangerous power tool, say a chainsaw. It may make you nervous to use it but you must handle it with confidence in yourself that you are in control.

Why do you want to buy a gun? Assuming the answer is self defense the follow up is are you prepared to handle the consequences of causing the death of a person? A gun is not to scare people off (though it is ideal if that happens) it is to stop and attack on your person. In stopping that attack you very well may end up killing them. There will be blood on your carpet, blood on your wall and quite likely blood on you. Expect to be arrested and have to go to trial where your every action will be questioned and second guessed. There will be nights you will lay awake rerunning that mental movie through your head second guessing yourself. You will find yourself a good therapist.

Not you may own that gun for 50 years, shoot it several times a year to keep the confidence in handling and never have to point it at a person ever. Congratulations, your life is good. But someday you may find you are pointing that gun at a person. You need to be mentally prepared to judge if your life is in danger, you are in the right to pull the trigger and there is no other option- you will have less than a quarter second to answer these affirmatively.

Oh and one last thing. You must invest in a device to secure your gun so absolutely no one else can touch it without your permission. If there is a worse scenario than having to defend yourself, it is knowing that another person used your gun to cause injury or death because you had not taken every precaution to prevent them from getting your gun.

I would recommend taking the course. It will help you decide if the choice is right for you. If the instructor is preaching faux badass bullshit that you must buy a gun, the commies are coming for you or it will somehow much you tough, leave and find a different instructor. A good one will teach you the skills but let you form your own opinions of what is best for you.

sarisataka

(18,220 posts)
24. You are welcome
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:00 AM
Jun 2020

You decide what is best for you; no one knows you better.

Either way, may you have a peaceful life

LeftInTX

(24,560 posts)
84. This is why I don't buy a gun
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 11:47 AM
Jun 2020

Knee jerk fear reactions are normal and common.

In the 70's there were movies and classes about self defense for women. (Charlies Angels etc) It was all the rage for awhile, and you heard of women buying guns, but I was warned about the dangers of gun safety from my dad. In the 80's, keychain mace came out. I had the mace, but I had to spray it every so often to prevent it from clogging. I had a few accidents with it too. I eventually tossed it.

In 2013, a woman was killed in a local park, I armed myself with a ski pole type, hike pole. This was the first time, there had been a fatal attack on a woman in a San Antonio park. They caught the guy within a week. Self defense classes were offered. The city also enlisted and trained volunteer trail watchers. (The trail watchers are unarmed to the best of my knowledge, and they are a god-send...they mostly ride their bikes...and they are people who were already on the trails daily) I eventually left my ski pole at home.

This crime wave will pass.

Caliman73

(11,694 posts)
27. Very well said.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:07 AM
Jun 2020

A gun is a tool, a very dangerous tool. A lot of people glorify them and venerate them. They are almost fetish objects and the culture of gun owners can be pretty gross.

There are a lot of liberals out there who do own firearms and they tend to be more serious about it but the gun culture permeates all ideologies.

I don' think that guns should be "hated" nor "loved". They should be owned like other tools but with the same mentality as a fire extinguisher where you learn how to use it, understand the purpose, and hope that you NEVER have to use it.



Great post saristaka.

Maeve

(42,224 posts)
61. That is such good advice
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:19 AM
Jun 2020

And why I won't own a gun.

I do, however, plan to learn to shoot one, just for the life experience--my military son and DIL will take me to a shooting range and let me use their weapons.

ripcord

(5,084 posts)
74. Unfortuately many people think just owning a gun is sufficient self defense
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:44 AM
Jun 2020

If you don't know how to shoot it, aren't comfortable and never practice a pistol is basically a paperweight. I live out in the middle of the desert, my theory is if you can't shoot or pee off your back porch you neighbors are too close, and my ex wife couldn't stand the sound of a pistol and wasn't comfortable shooting one. I let her try a short barrelled 20 gauge shotgun and she was set, I felt much better leaving her alone at home after that.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
14. Wow. Can't believe I'm typing this on DU. But understand
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:35 AM
Jun 2020

I’m a lifelong hunter and gun owner.

Owning a firearm is a huge responsibility. Or should be. Where to start...

If you have a child in the house you absolutely must have a totally secure place to lock it up. And I don’t mean a locked drawer. But some kind of safe.

But my main concern is if you purchased a handgun. Real shooting is not the movies. If you have never shot I guarantee you could not hit a target 10 feet away. Even on a range with no pressure. In a panicky defense situation you are just not going to hit what you are shooting at. Unless you are prepared to spend hours practicing ditch the handgun. With my deer rifle I can humanly kill a deer at 250 yard with one shot. With a hand gun I can’t quickly hit something at 10 feet.

Just sell the damn gun. Or if you must buy a 3 shot shotgun like my grandfather used. It’s much easier to learn to use and you aren’t likely to shoot yourself.

But really, buying a gun out of fear is just a bad idea all the way around.

Invest in a security system. Or something.

I’ve shot and hunted my entire life. You can’t learn it in one 2 hour class. No way in hell am I using a handgun to defend my life. I have my dad’s auto loader shotgun loaded under my bed. It holds 3 shots. But here is the deal. We don’t have kids. Anytime a child is coming over; anytime, it sets put in the safe. Even if they only here for a quick visit.

I think you need to rethink your decision. Those made out of fear never work out.







live love laugh

(13,009 posts)
33. No I didn't buy because they were out of stock
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:56 AM
Jun 2020

fortunately of what I “needed.” So I may take a class in July and rethink it in the meantime.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
18. I'm going with good locks, a reliable security system and an always-charged cellphone
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:52 AM
Jun 2020

Those make me feel much safer than a gun ever would.

EX500rider

(10,532 posts)
98. Someone breaking down my door at 2am...what will the cel phone do?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:46 PM
Jun 2020

The Police are unlikely to be parked around the corner waiting.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
103. I doubt anyone will be able to kick in my steel security door
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:58 PM
Jun 2020

And while they try, I'll have plenty of time to get the police there. But more likely, they'll just give up in the meantime.

EX500rider

(10,532 posts)
105. Assuming you have no other points of entry like windows that should help.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 06:14 PM
Jun 2020

I live in a mobile home with aluminum doors. 15 mins for the police to arrive would not be much help.

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
19. Yeeeeah, if hate guns u probably shouldnt get one, u have to practice a lot with a handgun to learn
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:53 AM
Jun 2020

Just having a gun wont magically protect you, and u need to shoot alot to be proficient with any handgun, to feel you can handle it safely

Better get something you feel comfortable to shoot with too, if you do, maybe try a local gun range to see if you can try out some different guns before you buy?

Olafjoy

(937 posts)
21. I dislike guns
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:55 AM
Jun 2020

I took The handgun class for women at my local gun range. I wanted to understand guns better. I wanted to be familiar with them, the different types, ammunition and how you load and unload them. I didn’t want to be afraid of them. We spent the last 90 minutes of the class at the indoor range. I’m really glad I took the class. Didn’t buy one. I have a hand held taser, a shooting taser, and pepper spray.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
23. I have a super soaker to smite my enemies with.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:58 AM
Jun 2020

And a cell phone camera.

I don't let anyone I'd care to punch bloody bullet holes in live in my head.

Gun fetishes are disgusting.

We can destroy the Republican Party and all the rotten cops without firing a shot.

helpisontheway

(5,004 posts)
25. I hate guns too..My husband was in the military for
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:03 AM
Jun 2020

20 years. Ironically one of his jobs was as a gunner’s mate. We agreed that we would not have weapons in the house back when our kids were little. We stuck to that for 27 years until Covid. He was concerned how bad things could get and worried that he would not be able to protect us. So we agreed to get one for protection. It does not bother me much now. In fact, I forget about it most of the time. Guess it will be good to have just in case.

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,764 posts)
26. Get A Dog Instead
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:04 AM
Jun 2020

Any loud noise is likely to deter a potential intruder, and if it's a big dog, seeing it will likely deter them too. Plus, you get a friend out of the deal.

My parents once asked me what I would do if someone ever broke into my house (I was living by myself at the time). I told them if anyone broke into my house, the first thing they would see is a 90-lb. dog barrelling down the hall at them and a 6'6, 300-lb. former college offensive lineman holding a baseball bat right behind him. So I've never felt the need for a gun.

txwhitedove

(3,922 posts)
29. I hate guns too, but I have used a shotgun to kill a big snake. Never
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:08 AM
Jun 2020

felt need to have one at home. Recommend a dog more. I have 2, one medium size lab mutt and one huge Husky/Malamute who scares people when he stares at them from the window. He's a teddy bear to us. ❤

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
31. In 1966 I qualified on everything the Army had up to the
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:46 AM
Jun 2020

.50 caliber machine gun. I would never own a gun now, because I choose not to live in fear. It’s just so much simpler this way.

Kaleva

(36,147 posts)
51. That's the same argument many who refuse to wear masks make.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:40 AM
Jun 2020

They laugh at those of us who live in fear.

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
58. Are you equating wearing a mask with owning a gun?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:07 AM
Jun 2020

I don’t think you and I have much to discuss.

🤪

Kaleva

(36,147 posts)
83. Do you equate wearing a mask with living in fear?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 11:35 AM
Jun 2020

Back in January, a few of us here were discussing the dangers of the virus and the need for acquiring masks and hand sanitizer. We were ridiculed by a few who thought we were over blowing the situation. below is a typical response:

"Meanwhile, the flu is said to have killed 10,000 people in this country alone.

If each and every flu death were reported the way each and every death from the corona virus is being reported, there would be panic in the streets every winter.

And keep in mind that fatality rate of 2% is based simply on the reported cases. I keep on reading that most people who get sick from the corona virus don't get very sick at all, don't go to a doctor, and aren't counted in the official numbers. So I'd guess (and yes, I'm guessing) that the true fatality rate is well under 1%. Maybe close to that of influenza.

Plus, once again, most of those who die are elderly or have underlying health conditions."

So I'm wondering if you do feel that those of us who advocate the wearing of masks are living in fear and if so, why? If not, why not?

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
94. I certainly wear a mask, and I don't see how that's living in fear.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:17 PM
Jun 2020

Keeping a gun, on the other hand...

Kaleva

(36,147 posts)
119. I do both and I do not live in fear.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:50 PM
Jun 2020

The only people who are afraid are those who know they are not prepared.

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
124. No. People own guns for target shooting. Perhaps some young people
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:00 PM
Jun 2020

with families to protect, who somehow live in areas where there seems to be a real danger to their lives, a danger that can be addressed by having a firearm, are not living in fear - although this gets into definitions.

But I choose to go through the world unarmed; as I said earlier it’s a simpler way to be, and I don’t have to fear that my firearm might kill someone.

EX500rider

(10,532 posts)
99. "I would never own a gun now, because I choose not to live in fear."
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 04:49 PM
Jun 2020

Are smoke alarms and fire extinguishers "living in fear" also, or just being prepared in case something bad happens?

kcr

(15,300 posts)
109. No one ever stole a smoke detecter to murder anyone
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 06:40 PM
Jun 2020

No one has ever killed themselves with their smoke detector.

EX500rider

(10,532 posts)
110. It's not that hard to properly secure a weapon. Also I was responding to it being out of fear.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 06:43 PM
Jun 2020

Which has nothing to do with firearms theft.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
116. It's still opening
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:02 PM
Jun 2020

Unless you somehow luck out and get an intruder who will stand there and wait for you to get your gun out of its fast-opening safe so it can be a fair fight, then I don't see how a locked up gun is effective.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
126. Well, hey, I guess if you're lucky enough to live in a 12,000 sq ft mansion
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:06 PM
Jun 2020

Then what can I say?

EX500rider

(10,532 posts)
129. Didn't say I did, but someone getting from my front toor to my bedroom in the dark will be all...
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:47 PM
Jun 2020

..the time I need.

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
128. You mentioned "being prepared," but you may have a different
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:13 PM
Jun 2020

idea of preparation from mine. There’s always a risk that someone will mean us harm, but in my case that doesn’t mean “preparing” in such a way that I’ll have in the house a dangerous weapon with a statistical likelihood of killing the wrong person.

I could make the decision that “preparation” means being OK with someone robbing me of some property, and making the effort to counsel him against it. Or being prepared to die, if that’s what goes down. But for me, living in fear would involve keeping a firearm, not living without it.

Patterson

(1,525 posts)
112. I never heard of a suicide from a smoke alarm or fire extinguisher or a kid killing themself......
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 06:44 PM
Jun 2020

...or someone else with one.

Squidly

(783 posts)
122. Im sorry
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:56 PM
Jun 2020

But if someone is to the point of suicide or murder, they are going to find a way gun or no gun.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
127. ...
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:10 PM
Jun 2020
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/

A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
143. True, but in all honesty, Japan has an odd-ball counting system.
Fri Jun 5, 2020, 05:56 PM
Jun 2020

Murder-suicide of family
USA: 3 murders, 1 suicide
Japan: 4 suicides

vercetti2021

(10,150 posts)
35. Don't feel bad
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:07 AM
Jun 2020

I own two guns, but when I became extremely suicidal. I locked them up so I would never touch them. I went and bought new ammo because of the shit happening.

I'm not worried about protestors. I'm worried about the right wing nutjobs

kaotikross

(246 posts)
39. They do make alternate self defense
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:47 AM
Jun 2020

Like guns that shoot pepperballs and rubber bullets. That being said, if it comes down to an armed insurrection of trump cultists liberals having guns isn't such a crazy idea. The founding fathers were quite liberal for the day. It's a scary thought but when you realize they'd shoot us it makes more sense.
Hopefully once we get the wannabe dictator out it will take the wind out of any kooky sails and then law enforcement, once properly restored and with newfound appreciation for civil rights, can round up any remaining fringe elements. It shouldn't be too difficult considering they're all out in the open. Those types will fade away for the most part once they know they're on the radar of the federal government agencies, because they're cowards at heart.
My final advice is if you do get a gun learn to use it at a class. There will be a lot of right wing nonsense- ignore that and listen to the parts that matter. Practice. Secure the weapon if there are kids or the mentally unfit coming over. Nobody needs to you you even have it. It's not something to show off, when I see "gun nuts" doing that stupid stuff it makes me question their sanity. It's not a substitute for staying away from trouble or bad areas.

safeinOhio

(32,531 posts)
40. For protection on the street, pepper spray.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:48 AM
Jun 2020

At home, google "cheap home security". Many ways to stay safe without a firearm. My advice to everyone is, try to be home when the street lights come on and nothing good happens after midnight. Or, never go any where you don't feel safe.

More fun and better exercise would be to take a self defense course from a martial arts person. Learn 2 or 3 self defense moves, that's all it takes. Don't act like a victim and you won't become one.

good luck and stay safe.

mitch96

(13,821 posts)
59. At my previous job the head of security was an ex NYC police. He said he defused more problems
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:07 AM
Jun 2020

with pepper spray than anything else.. One shot and everything goes tilt with the perp.
YMMV
m

Nature Man

(869 posts)
44. Have you ever had to take a human life?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:23 AM
Jun 2020

Do you know what it's like to live with the consequences of that on your psyche?

I'd hazard a guess that someone could easily disarm most of the "fearfuloids" who most likely couldn't squeeze off one round when the moment of truth comes.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
123. That is why I favor something that won't kill a person.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:57 PM
Jun 2020

If they can't see for a while after being hit with bear spray or pepper spray, at least I can live with that.

Nature Man

(869 posts)
130. Guns are for killing.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:39 PM
Jun 2020

Full stop.

But yeah, I see your point, but on the other hand, you shouldn't live in fear of things that probably will never happen.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
131. Many people think that complete strangers will harm them.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:44 PM
Jun 2020

It happens infrequently, but far more people get harmed by people they know.

To be somewhat fearful for one's personal safety is human. To prepare to kill a person in response to that fear throws me for a loop, I just don't understand the logic.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
45. IF you buy a gun, DO get trained on how to use it.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:25 AM
Jun 2020

If you have difficulty handling it, that's probably a red flag, though you could learn.

I have a .22 rifle that I keep on my land in the country. Learned how to use a rifle at summer camp a hundred years ago. Much easier to use.

Never felt the need for a handgun, though my father taught me how to use one years ago.

mitch96

(13,821 posts)
47. I love it when all the gun nuts come out on the DU..... where's the popcorn.........
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:32 AM
Jun 2020

It's like oil discussion on motor forums
Endless and re occurring... but fun!!!
YMMV
m

Squidly

(783 posts)
73. I resent that you lump us liberal gun owners into the gun nut category
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:37 AM
Jun 2020

I will venture to say that those of us here who do own guns are the responsible type who dont flaunt them, carry them around on our person when we go out...unlike the RW gun nuts.

I own guns...lots of guns...I do not own a hand gun, dont see the need. Dont own an AR-15 type either...also, dont see the need and think they should not be in the hands of the general public anyway. I dont own vast stockpiles of ammunition either like many of the RW gun nuts do. All of mine are for hunting (which probably does not sit well with some here either, but to each their own) and a few military firearms from wwII being the history nut that I am.

I doubt you will ever see any of us here parading a firearm around, proclaiming our 2nd amendment rights like the TRUE gun nuts do.

Like the saying on Mr Larsons shirt in Happy Glimore said "Guns dont kill people, I kill people" its the person you need to worry about, not a tool which guns are. Ban guns, if that person wants to kill someone they will use a knife...ban knives they will use a rock, ban rocks they will use a stick...ban sticks and they will use their bare hands. The core problem isnt guns, its the people behind them and what drove them to that point in their life where they felt the need to harm someone.

So please dont put us in that category.
Peace

 
49. I hate Guns, too
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:36 AM
Jun 2020

But I have several. The Racist Right has been jonesing for Civil War II since Obama was elected, and now they have Faux Man Donnie egging them on.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,085 posts)
50. When I tell you I still have no interest in buying a gun...
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:40 AM
Jun 2020

...I’m telling you I still have no interest in buying a gun.

I’ve got a baseball bat within easy reach if there’s ever an intruder and that’s fine for me right now. Never had to use it for such purposes.

Maybe my mind’s just not wired that way.

Happy Hoosier

(7,081 posts)
56. Don't buy one if you hate it that much.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:56 AM
Jun 2020

To use a gun safely and effectively you must comfortable enough to handle it deliberately. If you treat it with contempt, the chances for an accident go up and the likelihood you use it effectively goes way down.

Taking a class before you buy is a good idea.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
57. Yes plenty of 1st timers are buying guns - been since early March. If your revolted...
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:57 AM
Jun 2020

#1) If your revolted don’t bother.

Especially a handgun. It’s not just a gun, it’s a system...holsters belts mags ammo training practice safety storage mindset awareness law.

You dress different (concealment) you act different (responsibility) - you avoid trouble and arguments and confrontations and things like protests. You concern yourself with storage re: visitors I.e. kids CONSTANTLY. You put it on take it off load unload - often.

You practice - often. drawing shooting unload reload on safe off safe (if applicable) jams movement cover.

Sure you prepare to defend you and yours - safely.
Bottom line though is You prepare to kill some one.

If you can’t invest in all this don’t bother.

You can likely learn to shoot in a couple hours - it’s ALL the rest that matters.

As a note: it’s the slide - if you have trouble push out with the gun hand as you pull back with the offhand. Or get a revolver.




 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
60. Good for you, you are wise to take steps to protect yourself as no one else will
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:14 AM
Jun 2020

I recommend immersing yourself in as much practice and training as your budget and schedule allow. Wish you success in your endeavors.

Take care!

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
64. Save your money. Really.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:35 AM
Jun 2020

Unless you plan to learn to use your new firearm, it is going to be useless to you, and a danger to you and those around you.

Before you buy a firearm of any kind, take some shooting classes somewhere and learn how they work, how to handle them safely and how to hit the thing you want to hit with one.

Unless you take the time to learn those things, you will be wasting your money and could easily harm someone you don't want to harm.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
66. "If I were a criminal I'd be scared. America is armed.'
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:47 AM
Jun 2020

I'm not a criminal, and I'm more scared of people like you, or the poster who bought a gun because of COVID 19, than I am of the threats you are trying to defend against.

Impulse buys by people who expect to use them in self-defense put everyone they come in contact with at risk of being misinterpreted as a threat. If you make a mistake with pepper spray I'm still alive. If you make a mistake with a gun I may well not be.

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
141. Intentional murder can easily be carried out by an evildoer
Fri Jun 5, 2020, 03:10 PM
Jun 2020

who grabs the gun from someone who bought it out of fear.

Beyone that, buying guns out of fear will only increase the number of deaths by firearms. Dead is dead. It doesn't really matter to the person killed, or their grieving relatives, that their life was an accidental sacrifice so you could protect your home.

EX500rider

(10,532 posts)
142. I have firearms to protect my life, not my home.
Fri Jun 5, 2020, 03:13 PM
Jun 2020

So it's "easy" to grab a gun away from someone who has it loaded and pointed at you? I suggest you not try that, bound to have a low and possibly fatal success rate.

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
72. What looting and violence has been inflicted on private homes?
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:33 AM
Jun 2020

You seem to be buying into the fear that the Trump people are pushing.

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
75. People that have not used guns should not buy guns. What do you think a gun will do? A mob is
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:45 AM
Jun 2020

likely to take it away and use it on you. Take it from someone who was around guns her entire life and learned about guns from her Grandfather...if you are not experienced with guns don't buy one. A gun saved my life. I was protecting my oldest daughter and myself against some really bad good old boys. I pulled the trigger with the intention of killing as many as I could...lucky for them I had grabbed the shot gun which I never really used and it bucked. Had I grabbed the rifle, the ones in the middle would be dead. But can you pull the trigger and kill someone? Don't point a gun at someone unless you are willing to use it. There is nothing in my house worth killing for and there wasn't then either...buy my kid was that important. Think carefully. If you are in real danger from riots or mobs...then leave. One gun won't save you.

ecstatic

(32,567 posts)
77. Yesterday, I decided to get one before election day
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:49 AM
Jun 2020

And also a conceal carry license. I don't know, I probably won't go through with it, but we'll see.

I hate guns and I want the 2nd amendment to be severely overhauled and limited. I think every gun buyer should be required to undergo extensive psychological screening, counseling, and safety training prior to purchasing.

However, none of those provisions are in place and right now the deck is stacked with rethugs owning the vast majority of guns in this country. Meanwhile, trump still has a tweet up that features a video where a guy says the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat. For me, it will be a temporary protection until the threat from trump's deplorable thugs subsides.

live love laugh

(13,009 posts)
80. I also hate what's been done with the second amendment.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 11:04 AM
Jun 2020

I remember the pre-gun crazy era. It was much better. I can’t believe we’re here.

 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
104. That reminds me of an argument I've had on more than one occasion wherein someone asserts
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 05:06 PM
Jun 2020

that the 21st century is a horrible time to live in, and that things were so much better in the past. At which point I'd say "Really? Do you think you'd be happier being a farmer in the 12th Century?".

One person kept insisting that they would have been happier as a Medieval peasant because they would have had a more "spiritual" life. I asked them to describe how they would spend a typical day were they that peasant. Oddly enough, their description didn't include hour after hour of tedious backbreaking labor.

live love laugh

(13,009 posts)
136. I question the validity of your data.
Fri Jun 5, 2020, 08:20 AM
Jun 2020

Who exactly was able to get their hands on “murder” data from the 13th century?

c-rational

(2,581 posts)
78. See my comment - #71. I would suggest trying a class in meditation or philosophy. Learn to
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:49 AM
Jun 2020

control your fear thoughts. I was on both my Junior High and Senior High rifle teams, shot skeet and handguns but would not own one today. If you are not comfortable with a gun do not get one - it will only make you uncomfortable. If you need take a a class - it may get it out of your system. I do think the poster I responded to was on the right track when he said he chose not to live in fear, and do believe the practice of meditation can help.

madville

(7,397 posts)
87. A firearm can be a great self defense tool with proper training of course
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:30 PM
Jun 2020

I went through basic and combat pistol and rifle courses every year I was in the military and also had to go through annual re-qualification and Use Of Force training.

Most people don’t get such training but should, you understand just how fast things happen in use of force simulations, especially how fast people can cover distance before you can barely draw your firearm. You have to train for your reactions to be instinctual because if you pause to think or double check, it’s often too late.

Also, a “high percentage” of firearms owners don’t get shot with their own guns, that’s false, it’s a small fraction of a percent with the most common cause in that statistic being self-inflicted by suicide.

Go through a training class and then see how you feel about it if still on the fence.

Polybius

(15,239 posts)
91. I'm seeing a lot of posts like this, and I'm not criticizing them at all
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:16 PM
Jun 2020

I completely understand. Gun-control legislation is dead for the next 15 years.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
114. I'm curious as to what they recommended to you.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 07:21 PM
Jun 2020

Last edited Sat Jun 6, 2020, 01:25 AM - Edit history (2)

Do you remember their names? Did you end up buying one of them?


For people who are new to guns, a little uncomfortable, and probably not going to get to the range on a weekly basis, I usually suggest:
Smith & Wesson 627 PRO (about $900) https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/52370/smith+%26+wesson+627+pro+357+mag+4%22+adjustable+sights+stainless+8+round

Get some quality ammo like Hornady Critical Defense. Sold in boxes of 25 they run about $25. You can get cheaper target practice ammo, but I recommend shooting one cylinder full of defense ammo each time you practice.

Fort Knox Pistol Safe (About $260) -- for peace of mind - safe storage is key.
https://www.amazon.com/Fort-Knox-FTK-PB-Pistol-Handgun/dp/B004H6MKI8

I also recommend getting a simple, but high-quality holster and belt. Combined they shouldn't cost more than $150.

I also recommend getting 8 snap-caps (fake ammo) that you can put into your gun and practice pulling the trigger.

As other's have said, enroll in a gun handling and safety course. Practice at the range.

Just my 2 cents on a new gun for a novice.

But also invest in quality locks, security lights, and alarms as well as good firearms.







JI7

(89,182 posts)
117. It does seem to be mainly cowardly types that want to feel tough that want guns
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:26 PM
Jun 2020

I have a business in the greater los Angeles area . many businesses are boarded up.

i have had my car broken into and my times stolen. but i still would not get a gun . only way i would want one is if i was going to join law enforcement.

I have imagined the worst things happening to whoever stole my things but i also understand reality when it comes to guns and how there who thing if stopping a criminal with their gun is mainly fantasy and they are more likely to be used in things like domestic violence .

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
121. Just buy a can of bear spray and make sure that you
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 08:50 PM
Jun 2020

keep a can that has strong propellant. At least then, you won't get killed with your weapon, or kill someone and regret it for life.

Dan

(3,524 posts)
135. Just from reading your post, may I recommend
Fri Jun 5, 2020, 02:47 AM
Jun 2020

that you not buy a gun.

Consider something non-lethal, maybe gas canister, pepper spray, dog whistle, or a couple long hair-pins, but just from my read of your post - you appear to be temperamental unlikely to use a gun.

P.S. this is not an insult, actually a compliment.

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