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calguy

(5,222 posts)
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 10:55 PM Aug 2020

If the VP choice is narrowed between Rice or Harris .....

I think Kamala will be the choice. As good as Susan Rice is, she has never been battle tested on the campaign trail as Harris has. Harris is perfectly suited to play the attack dog role, and she has legislative experience to help push Joe's policies on Capitol Hill. Susan Rice is perfectly qualified to be Secretary of State to repair the damage trump has done to our relationships with our allies around the world.

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If the VP choice is narrowed between Rice or Harris ..... (Original Post) calguy Aug 2020 OP
Harris IMO is the better choice. EOM TruckFump Aug 2020 #1
Agree. grantcart Aug 2020 #2
Agree with every word. Bleacher Creature Aug 2020 #3
I fourth that sentiment Sugarcoated Aug 2020 #4
Joe Isn't Just Choosing A Running Mate; He's Choosing The Next President ChoppinBroccoli Aug 2020 #5
And Harris with her Presidential run Proved she could win? judeling Aug 2020 #21
Not a valid argument. Many don't succeed. Biden himself, didn't prior to this run. themaguffin Aug 2020 #48
In times of crisis America runs to old white men. radius777 Aug 2020 #85
The problem is she proved it by attacking Biden. ucrdem Aug 2020 #86
It was her right as a candidate to 'attack' him. radius777 Aug 2020 #88
It didn't look like a concern, it looked like an ambush, and it clearly was intended to be. ucrdem Aug 2020 #90
The party has needed that type of 'ambush' at white fragility radius777 Aug 2020 #91
She bet the farm and lost. Biden seems willing to forgive ucrdem Aug 2020 #92
excellent assessment Skittles Aug 2020 #124
2024??? Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #33
Why would he? PTWB Aug 2020 #36
Because most Presidents do Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #37
I wouldn't want a Republican running the country at 85 years old either. PTWB Aug 2020 #40
Yes it is Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #41
That's ridiculous. PTWB Aug 2020 #43
No it's not Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #45
You didn't answer the question. PTWB Aug 2020 #47
I don't answer Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #49
Not answering is an answer. PTWB Aug 2020 #52
No Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #53
Anyone's extreme age diminishes their ability to be President. PTWB Aug 2020 #55
That is ageism Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #56
That's crazy talk. PTWB Aug 2020 #57
More ageism Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #64
No one is diminishing Biden except for you. PTWB Aug 2020 #68
I think Biden will make a great President Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #69
You're suggesting Biden is incapable of handling his succession properly. PTWB Aug 2020 #70
No I'm not Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #72
Those words are the logical conclusion of the argument you've chosen. PTWB Aug 2020 #73
No they are not Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #74
They are indeed. PTWB Aug 2020 #75
No it isn't Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #76
You still can't account for that position. PTWB Aug 2020 #77
Please Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #79
The issue is what would be better for party and country. PTWB Aug 2020 #81
No the issue is winning in November Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #82
Be carefull, he's baiting you. n/t demmiblue Aug 2020 #65
Biden at 86 is better than any wingnut at any age ucrdem Aug 2020 #58
You know what would be better than an 86 year old Biden? PTWB Aug 2020 #59
It would turn the second half of his term into a circus. ucrdem Aug 2020 #62
He doesn't need to announce anything. PTWB Aug 2020 #67
He said that from the git-go secondwind Aug 2020 #96
No he hasn't Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #101
Link, please (nt) muriel_volestrangler Aug 2020 #117
Convincing statement, and I agree. peacebuzzard Aug 2020 #6
Harris is a no-brainer choice AmericanCanuck Aug 2020 #7
Actually some African America's have issues with her Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #34
Naw, it's white Bernie progressives that have a problem with her... Callado119 Aug 2020 #61
I hope you're right Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #66
+1. The 'movement against Kamala' is irrational fear radius777 Aug 2020 #87
"some African America's(sic) have issues with" greyl Aug 2020 #89
Really? Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #93
You're feigning ignorance, adios. nt greyl Aug 2020 #94
No I'm not Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #95
Lol... PunkinPi Aug 2020 #97
So Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #99
Who is that?! PTWB Aug 2020 #102
No one Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #103
There were 12 people on that list. PTWB Aug 2020 #104
Maybe/Maybe not Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #105
Who did they prefer over Kamala? PTWB Aug 2020 #106
No one obviously Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #107
You're being disingenuous. PTWB Aug 2020 #108
Sure it would Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #109
It's overwhelmingly more than any other contender. PTWB Aug 2020 #110
Yes Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #111
31% seems like a lot when you consider that there were 12 choices to divide the support PTWB Aug 2020 #112
A lot Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #113
Definitely the most overwhelming support amongst the potential choices. PTWB Aug 2020 #114
Yet Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #115
Nope. PTWB Aug 2020 #116
Yes Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #118
I would say the support is overwhelming ... PTWB Aug 2020 #123
You can say whatever you like Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #125
And I do. PTWB Aug 2020 #126
Yes it is Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #128
So you are *obviously* making a shit argument muriel_volestrangler Aug 2020 #119
Sorry Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #120
When she is the VP candidate, she'll have overwhelming support from our black brothers and sisters. calguy Aug 2020 #127
I hope so Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #129
It will be Harris. MrsCoffee Aug 2020 #51
Both are fine choices Lithos Aug 2020 #8
I like them both. Kamala Harris has run for public office and Rice has not. Harris ran for... EarnestPutz Aug 2020 #9
Either is fine Delarage Aug 2020 #10
Lady Gaga is 66 days too young to be constitutionally eligible. Celerity Aug 2020 #26
Well poop. Delarage Aug 2020 #54
Completely agree. smirkymonkey Aug 2020 #11
Post removed Post removed Aug 2020 #12
I would much prefer Rice. Jeebo Aug 2020 #13
Fiona Hill (a British born, of British parents, dual citizen, who did not become a US citizen until Celerity Aug 2020 #28
Why do right wingers hate Rice so much? Jeebo Aug 2020 #78
the RW hates Rice due to her closeness to Clinton and Obama. They desperately wanted Celerity Aug 2020 #83
Number 4 is so low down the list, it means nothing muriel_volestrangler Aug 2020 #121
So do I. Susan Rice is best qualified to be Head of State Martin Eden Aug 2020 #80
Harris FTW TeamPooka Aug 2020 #14
It's gotta be Harris. SunSeeker Aug 2020 #15
I prefer Susan Rice. PurgedVoter Aug 2020 #16
Kamala is much better. Rice is stiff/boring radius777 Aug 2020 #17
:) They're not interviewing to host MSNBC shows, though, Hortensis Aug 2020 #24
I think Biden should hold a Zoom meeting and ask us LeftInTX Aug 2020 #18
Might be, but I sure as hell hope not. DFW Aug 2020 #19
What a gross post. MrsCoffee Aug 2020 #20
Somewhat agree tman Aug 2020 #23
I can live with that DFW Aug 2020 #42
Strongly agree. ucrdem Aug 2020 #31
I'm so happy it's Harris. MrsCoffee Aug 2020 #130
I'm not sure Harris will even be in the Administration. judeling Aug 2020 #22
Kamala is the one. nt PunkinPi Aug 2020 #25
Maybe Susan Rice is too much like Biden so with Harris he would add something more different JI7 Aug 2020 #27
Rice is perfectly competent, but.... Happy Hoosier Aug 2020 #29
Rice is a strategic thinker trusted by Obama to work in his inner circle for 8 years lostnfound Aug 2020 #30
It's Susan Rice. Confidently predicting her. berni_mccoy Aug 2020 #32
The VP choice will be Trumpocalypse Aug 2020 #35
Knope. nt PunkinPi Aug 2020 #98
If it's down to these two TuxedoKat Aug 2020 #38
Rice would make a quality Secretary of State. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2020 #39
Agreed about Harris Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2020 #44
Exactly. MrsCoffee Aug 2020 #46
I think Rice could put Benghazi to rest quickly. ucrdem Aug 2020 #50
I think so too. Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2020 #71
I'm still holding out hoping for Keisha Lance Bottoms. ❤ nt littlemissmartypants Aug 2020 #60
+1 ucrdem Aug 2020 #63
I also agree. NNadir Aug 2020 #84
Harris-yes.nt CatLady78 Aug 2020 #100
Has anyone who has never run for office become vice president? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2020 #122

Bleacher Creature

(11,235 posts)
3. Agree with every word.
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:03 PM
Aug 2020

Part of me would love to see Rice simply because it sends a message that we don't care about the Republicans' crazy conspiracy theories about Benghazi, but at the end of the day she's never been on the campaign trail.

Sugarcoated

(7,707 posts)
4. I fourth that sentiment
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:07 PM
Aug 2020

Rice will give crooked Donnie and the RW freak show a target, ie: Hillary and Benghazi. Fair or not.

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,764 posts)
5. Joe Isn't Just Choosing A Running Mate; He's Choosing The Next President
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:13 PM
Aug 2020

He HAS to pick someone who is capable of winning a Presidential campaign in 2024. Susan Rice has never run a campaign for anything, and couldn't be counted on to win. That's why it HAS to be Harris.

judeling

(1,086 posts)
21. And Harris with her Presidential run Proved she could win?
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 06:06 AM
Aug 2020

Her presidential run is the largest mark against her. Basically she could do set pieces extremely well and everything else poorly. When challenged she had a hard time defending her own positions, let alone someone else's.

radius777

(3,624 posts)
85. In times of crisis America runs to old white men.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:12 AM
Aug 2020

Trump's election was/is a national emergency to many that causes voters/media to flock to the old white guy candidates, hence Sanders and Biden finishing in the top two, despite they themselves having run poor campaigns. Kamala, Warren, Booker, Beto - imo all ran better campaigns and did little wrong yet failed to catch on due to be clouded out by the 'need to nominate old white guy' sentiment. The fact that the primary schedule begins in the white Iowa and New Hampshire also doesn't help.

Note that Biden himself has never been successful at presidential politics, yet did well as VP for Obama - because choosing a VP is all about demographic balance and the ability to the defend the President. Kamala, in this light, is the best choice by far for Biden as she's a woman of color, highly accomplished and willing to fight/play the attack dog role required of the VP.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
86. The problem is she proved it by attacking Biden.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:24 AM
Aug 2020

Not a good idea if you want to be Biden's veep. That was actually my first thought when I saw it. What the HECK was she thinking??

radius777

(3,624 posts)
88. It was her right as a candidate to 'attack' him.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:47 AM
Aug 2020

Both Harris and Booker, as candidates of color, would obviously be concerned with Biden's (and really the Dem party's) past record on race and coziness with Dixiecrats.

If they didn't bring it up and get it out in the open - and note they could've brought up much more - Trump/RW would obviously bring it up now to try to suppress the PoC/AA vote.

Note that Biden himself critized Obama yet was still chosen. Many VP's have had prior contentious relationships with their future running mate - Poppy Bush comes to mind. In the 1980 presidential primaries it was Poppy who coined the phrase 'voodoo economics' to (accurately) describe Reagan's supply side theories.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
90. It didn't look like a concern, it looked like an ambush, and it clearly was intended to be.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:55 AM
Aug 2020

She wanted to leave Biden for roadkill and swipe his constituency. It didn't turn out that way, but that's what it was, and it wasn't even honest in that her Berkeley busing program was voluntary and Biden opposed compulsory busing. It was a cheap shot aimed at the completely wrong target. That's not a very promising beginning.


radius777

(3,624 posts)
91. The party has needed that type of 'ambush' at white fragility
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 01:15 AM
Aug 2020

for years now, as its base is far more diverse than the type of (mainly white) candidates/narratives that dominate national politics.

Politics is hardball, and she's being held to a double standard that a white guy would not be.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
92. She bet the farm and lost. Biden seems willing to forgive
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 01:24 AM
Aug 2020

and I imagine that as a longtime pol he has less trouble than others understanding that politics is hardball. But it's still politics, and perception is all, and to people watching like me, it looked like a grotesque blunder. As others have said, if Biden thinks she's the one, fine, I'm behind him. But if I were advising him I'd urge him to look elsewhere.

Skittles

(152,964 posts)
124. excellent assessment
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:39 PM
Aug 2020

I am very disappointed in how things played out but.....well, it is what it is......this VP pick is absolutely critical, it really needs to be Kamala Harris.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
36. Why would he?
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:10 AM
Aug 2020

Biden is already pushing the age envelop for this term. Do we really want someone in their mid-80s as President? The best thing Joe could do is dedicate himself to a one term presidency while grooming his successor.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
37. Because most Presidents do
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:19 AM
Aug 2020

And anything regarding Biden's age is just pushing a GOP talking point.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
40. I wouldn't want a Republican running the country at 85 years old either.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:53 AM
Aug 2020

It isn't a GOP talking point. Trump is nearly as old as Biden.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
41. Yes it is
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:01 AM
Aug 2020

Anything that diminishes Biden’s ability to be President is. I’m sure Trump and the Republicans appreciate you carrying water for them.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
43. That's ridiculous.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:17 AM
Aug 2020

They’re nearly the same age. Both of them are already old for the Presidency.

When do you think age should be a factor? 85 clearly isn’t it, what about 90? Should age be a factor at 90? No? What about 95? 100?

The simple fact is that age does affect humans.

Biden is going to make an excellent President. But he should position his successor to lead from 2024-2032.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
53. No
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:06 PM
Aug 2020

It’s ageism and bigotry. And anything that diminishes Biden’s ability to be President helps Trump and the GOP.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
55. Anyone's extreme age diminishes their ability to be President.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:27 PM
Aug 2020

That’s why you refused to answer if you’d support a 90 or 100 year old President.

That doesn’t mean Biden won’t be an excellent President (he will be) but it does mean he ought to consider how to manage his legacy and his successor.

I’m curious - do you have a logical argument that supports the idea of Biden running for a 2nd term - entering at 82 and exiting at 86 - would be better for our party than Biden selecting and grooming successor to take the reins in 2024?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
56. That is ageism
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:30 PM
Aug 2020

Pure and simple. Ability is ability.

Biden has the ability to be President for 2 terms. Saying anything less just helps Trump.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
57. That's crazy talk.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:36 PM
Aug 2020

Ability can diminish extremely rapidly with advanced age.

I think Biden will be a great President. If he chooses to run in 2024 I will hope for the best with his health and support him as I do now.

But god, man, don’t bury your head in the sand because you don’t like the reality above ground.

You’re doing our party a disservice by trying to focus on a second Biden term instead of encouraging Biden to lead for 4 while mentoring his successor.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
75. They are indeed.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 01:25 PM
Aug 2020

It's why you couldn't explain how attempting a two-term Biden presidency would be better for our party than Biden selecting and grooming a successor for 2024.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
77. You still can't account for that position.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 01:49 PM
Aug 2020

That's telling. Suggesting that Biden is incapable of determining an obviously preferable course of action for our party - and country - is the same as trashing Biden.

You've been unable to provide any argument whatsoever in support of your position.

Why would it be better for our country and our party for Biden to run for two terms - finishing his second term at age 86 - instead of selecting and grooming his VP to be his successor in 2024?

Until you answer that question the only logical assumption is that you're trying to disrupt and mislead. Biden will be an excellent President. He's more than capable of helping our country dig out of the mess that Trump has made. And he's also competent and politically savvy enough to know what's best for 2024.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
79. Please
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:21 PM
Aug 2020

You're trying to change the subject. Biden has the ability to serve as many terms as he wants. That is the issue.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
81. The issue is what would be better for party and country.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:37 PM
Aug 2020

As you've refused to state why you think Biden running for two would be better for party and country than Biden selecting and grooming his successor to take over in 2024, you've left me no choice but to assume your reasoning. And the only assumption I can make is that you want to disrupt and damage our party and our chances down the road.

Luckily Biden is competent and savvy. He knows he's going to be selecting the person to take the reins, whether you accept that or not is another matter.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
58. Biden at 86 is better than any wingnut at any age
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:36 PM
Aug 2020

They are all horrible, or have horrible veeps to do the horrible stuff (thinking of Ike). If Biden wants a second term he'll have to earn it, like any other president, but I'd far far prefer a Biden term 2 than another wingnut nightmare.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
59. You know what would be better than an 86 year old Biden?
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:37 PM
Aug 2020

A strong Democrat mentored by Biden to take the reins in 2024.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
62. It would turn the second half of his term into a circus.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:45 PM
Aug 2020

And that wouldn't help his mentee much. We'd basically repeat the last two years of primary season while Biden limped along as a lame duck. It wouldn't help much in 2022 and that too could hurt his veep. Biden can always demur on a second term if he has to but I think it's not a good idea to announce it any sooner than necessary.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
67. He doesn't need to announce anything.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:59 PM
Aug 2020

A well selected VP is the first step. Positioning that VP to take an significant and active role in his administration is the second step.

peacebuzzard

(5,123 posts)
6. Convincing statement, and I agree.
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:14 PM
Aug 2020

I think whoever Biden feels comfortable working with is the best choice. But the two candidates mentioned were my personal two finalists.

 

AmericanCanuck

(1,102 posts)
7. Harris is a no-brainer choice
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:15 PM
Aug 2020

She has name recognition, the right credentials and she appeals to AA's as well as Asians. She has executive experience being the AG of the most populous state in the nation.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
34. Actually some African America's have issues with her
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 10:05 AM
Aug 2020

most stemming from her time as a prosecutor. But some personal issues as well.

Callado119

(171 posts)
61. Naw, it's white Bernie progressives that have a problem with her...
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:45 PM
Aug 2020

...because she dared to run against Bernie. The primary proved once again that Bernie and his supporters have no idea what black voters think. Harris is the most popular choice among black voters according to the latest polls, and they’re not going to be fooled by misinformation about her record..

radius777

(3,624 posts)
87. +1. The 'movement against Kamala' is irrational fear
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:35 AM
Aug 2020

of a self-determined, attractive and ambitious woman of color - similar to the irrational fear of Obama that led to birtherism.

Historically PoC are only 'allowed' to succeed in America if it's in service of white interests.

greyl

(22,990 posts)
89. "some African America's(sic) have issues with"
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:55 AM
Aug 2020

all of the potential VPs. Your post has no point, only blunt negation.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
103. No one
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 11:07 AM
Aug 2020

but she is still only favored by 31% of African Americans. I wouldn't call that overwhelming support.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
104. There were 12 people on that list.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 11:09 AM
Aug 2020

31% is great. That no one else garnered more support is telling.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
108. You're being disingenuous.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 11:45 AM
Aug 2020

It would be just as accurate to say there isn’t a single VP contender with more support than Kamala.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
116. Nope.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 02:53 PM
Aug 2020

69% spread their support amongst 11 others someones - not just one.

Kamala received significantly more support than any other candidate.

Kampala’s support is staggering. Just go back a few months to look on the DU primaries forum when support was split so evenly amongst the various candidates. 31% when there were 12 candidates would have been an incredible lead.

No matter how you and others try to spin this, the fact remains that Kamala is the first choice - by far - of Black voters in that poll.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
118. Yes
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:06 PM
Aug 2020

That’s true. But still not overwhelming support for Harris. And it doesn’t disprove my original statement.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,149 posts)
119. So you are *obviously* making a shit argument
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:08 PM
Aug 2020

She is picked as first choice by more than twice as much as anyone else. You're wasting people's time in this thread with such a crap argument.

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
51. It will be Harris.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:55 AM
Aug 2020

She is an excellent choice. All the armchair analysts need to learn the let the unimportant shit go. Jill has.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kamala-harris-once-went-after-joe-biden-but-now-theres-only-bonhomie-as-the-vice-presidential-tryouts-continue/2020/06/26/9b525566-b6f9-11ea-a8da-693df3d7674a_story.html

On Friday, a far different dynamic was on display. Harris (D-Calif.) smiled broadly as she introduced Jill Biden as “our next first lady.” Jill Biden closed her eyes and put her hands over her heart as she recalled how Harris’s op-ed on black maternal health touched her.

"Both Dr. Biden and Valerie have nothing but the utmost respect, admiration and affection for Senator Harris,” Biden campaign spokeswoman Elizabeth Alexander said in a statement. “Any rumors or conjecture to the contrary are not true and have zero basis in reality or fact.”

Lithos

(26,397 posts)
8. Both are fine choices
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:15 PM
Aug 2020

I think both will draw attacks from the Trump crowd, mostly because they are women. I do agree that Susan Rice would make a great Secretary of State.

Also, I think both would mince Pence in the debate and hand back various body parts to him. Yes, I realize the VP debate is more a formality, seeing either up against Pence would be must-see TV.

EarnestPutz

(2,085 posts)
9. I like them both. Kamala Harris has run for public office and Rice has not. Harris ran for...
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:33 PM
Aug 2020

....President and took some shots at Joe on the debate stage. If he picks her he shows that he doesn't hold a grudge and compares it to Trump who is all about grudges.

Delarage

(2,182 posts)
10. Either is fine
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 11:38 PM
Aug 2020

He could change his mind and pick Missy Elliot or Lady GaGa and I'd still vote for him.

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
26. Lady Gaga is 66 days too young to be constitutionally eligible.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 08:06 AM
Aug 2020

She was born March 28, 1986. Buttigieg (January 19th, 1982) would have made it by ONE day to be eligible to run in 2016. AOC (October 13, 1989) makes it by 99 days to be eligible in 2024. To REALLY get down into the legal weeds, you technically attain your age the day BEFORE your birthday, so if Pete (or anyone) was born on January 21st (ie attained the age of 35 on January 20th of the swearing in year) they would be eligible, although I am sure the opposing party would try and challenge it in court (and lose). I know this to be the case, as one of my friends was born on November 9th, 1998, and her father (an attorney) made sure that she was allowed to vote in the 2016 elections (as she was legally considered 18yo on election day, November 8th, 2016).

Just some trivia.

Delarage

(2,182 posts)
54. Well poop.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:09 PM
Aug 2020

Maybe Janet Jackson? She could insist at the debate that Pence call her "Miss Jackson" because he's nasty.

Response to calguy (Original post)

Jeebo

(2,005 posts)
13. I would much prefer Rice.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 12:38 AM
Aug 2020

I want all the sitting U.S. senators to stay where they are. I know California is a solid blue state with a Democratic governor, but still, weird things sometimes happen in the real world. I want all the sitting U.S. senators to stay where they are.

Susan Rice is more of a bureaucrat than a politician, but she's brilliant and capable and really knows her stuff. That's what I have noticed about her every time I have seen her interviewed. Yes, there's Benghazi and also her crazy right wing son, but that will only resonate with people who are not going to vote for the Democratic ticket anyway. And they'll find something to go after any Democrat for, whoever Biden's pick is.

Susan Rice is so smart and so knowledgeable and so articulate that I think she'll make mincemeat of Pence in the debates.

I want Susan Rice. Somebody mentioned her for secretary of state. I want Fiona Hill for secretary of state in the Biden administration and Sally Yates for attorney general.

One more thing: Susan Rice is cool as igloo ice. Have you seen that picture of her throwing out the first pitch at a major league baseball game? That woman is cool as igloo ice. (I just made up that phrase "cool as igloo ice". I hope it goes over.)

And I repeat, I want all the sitting U.S. senators to stay where they are.

-- Ron

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
28. Fiona Hill (a British born, of British parents, dual citizen, who did not become a US citizen until
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 08:27 AM
Aug 2020

2002) presents the issue that she is not eligible to be in the POTUS line of succession. SoS is number 4. I would think, as that is a very high level, her being picked there would give pause, although there is a fairly recent precedent to still appoint her in Madeleine Albright (not POTUS-eligible either.)



Also, I HIGHLY doubt, if she is not chosen as VP, that Harris will be completely frozen out and not even offered a VERY high position in the Biden cabinet. AG is obviously the natural one. I think she would take it.

Finally, if we do not take back the Senate, good luck getting Rice (if she is not VP) approved by a Rethug Senate for any position. They will do anything to block her. In fact, if they maintain control, they may well go full stop scorched earth and try and block Biden on damn near every pick, for the full 4 years (or 2 if they lose control in 2022).

Jeebo

(2,005 posts)
78. Why do right wingers hate Rice so much?
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:17 PM
Aug 2020

If they hate her that much, there must be something REALLY good about her. Which makes her a GREAT choice for vice president, in my humble opinion, or for any position that requires senate confirmation.

Also, I don't think the line of succession is much of a concern at this point, because the probability is so low that it will ever get down as far as No. 3 or 4.

I want Susan Rice as vice president.

But, of course, I will support whoever Biden's pick is. If she's Amy Poehler, as somebody else in this thread suggested tongue-in-cheek, shucks, if she's a yellow dog, I'll support her. Because four years of that loathsome orange thing in the White House has turned me into a yellow dog Democrat.

-- Ron

Celerity

(42,643 posts)
83. the RW hates Rice due to her closeness to Clinton and Obama. They desperately wanted
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 07:15 PM
Aug 2020

a big scandal on Obama and Clinton, and so they hitched their wagon to Benghazi. Rice became a principal face of it. Many on the left do not like her because they see her, Samantha Power, and also Sec. Clinton, etc. as the face of empiric wars (the Democratic side, obviously Bush, McCain, Graham, etc are RW faces) and the 'humanitarian bombing' (their description of 'responsibility to protect' being, in their eyes, abused) doctrine. Power is the principal pusher of that type of military interventionism (she literally wrote the book on it), but they see Rice as her compatriot in it, along with Clinton, and ultimately Obama (as he was the head of the military as commander in chief at the time).

The RW (the ultra hawk ones like mad bomber Bolton, the now passed on McCain, et al.), in regards to Rice, are pure hypocrites, as they love military interventions when they are done by THEM.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,149 posts)
121. Number 4 is so low down the list, it means nothing
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:16 PM
Aug 2020

beyond the scenario in "what if..." dramas. Number 2 in that list - Nancy Pelosi - would only get it if Trump and Pence were both indicted on undeniable criminal charges (or Trump really does something stupid to prevent the official recognition of Joe Biden; in which case she could be president for a few minutes, while she sorts it out). Once there is no longer a criminal as president, it wouldn't happen. And the senior senator getting it wouldn't happen either.

Martin Eden

(12,802 posts)
80. So do I. Susan Rice is best qualified to be Head of State
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 02:28 PM
Aug 2020

Like it or not, that's a consideration with a president who will turn 80 halfway through his term.

Kamala Harris really turned me off in the debates. I think she will hurt the ticket more with swing voters than Rice would.

radius777

(3,624 posts)
17. Kamala is much better. Rice is stiff/boring
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 03:39 AM
Aug 2020

and was already in the Obama admin along with Biden - we need new blood.

Kamala is much more in tune with middle aged and younger people: she's feisty, sharp and attractive and has a good sense of humor.

She's also a battle tested politician who has won several difficult statewide races.

Rice has no such experience - which is important to have as the VP's main job is to defend the president and sell his agenda.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
24. :) They're not interviewing to host MSNBC shows, though,
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 07:14 AM
Aug 2020

so, so what to all the fun, entertaining stuff?

As for needing "new blood," says who? Which hostile agents chose that hackneyed, highly negative term, instead of "highly experienced" say?

But again, why is old blood bad and should we allow ourselves to be so easily jerked around? Is it "boring"? Has someone been insinuating there's something tainting about Obama admin associations? Shouldn't that be an impressively good qualification?

Anyway, as Vice President of the United States, both would dealing from a position of great power almost entirely with other people in top positions. Now and then they'd make public statements, and when they did it'd be as the VP. The power of that position changes how a person is seen and eliminates all need to entertain audiences. And no one would think the VP should be "feisty."

As for the campaign, fwiw, a lot of people think that. But Biden himself is enough of a star and doesn't need carrying by a better campaigner. A former Democratic campaign manager said they need 3 things from the running mate: a competent acceptance speech, a competent performance at one debate, and something else, another competent speech I think. Everyone considered could handle those.

My problem with Rice is that awful son. Impossible to believe he wouldn't use her spotlight to try to advance his arch-conservative ideas; he is talented and would be titillating enough to get in the news a lot. But if Biden chose her, he'd obviously believe that wasn't disqualifying.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
19. Might be, but I sure as hell hope not.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 04:05 AM
Aug 2020

There is no guarantee that Harris even WOULD push Joe's policies on Capitol Hill or elsewhere. She is one of the few names under consideration who, if past performance is any indication, would only have Biden's back with a knife in her hand.

She gives me the distinct impression that she would be prone to manoeuvering Biden out of office at her earliest possible convenience, in order to grab the presidency that the Democratic voters in the primaries overwhelmingly did NOT want her to have.

With Trump and Pence being their own worst enemies, and Trump is at his "best (if one can call it that)" when attacking or answering an attack, I don't think we need an attack dog as VP candidate any more than Obama did in 2008. Calm, deep intelligent reason with an undercurrent of steel (ask Lindsey Graham) is what Biden needs as a counterbalance to the Republican ticket, not an attack dog the Republicans can point to as a mirror image of their own boorish aggressiveness. That is exactly what voters are tired of. Otherwise, someone with an attack dog nature would have beat Joe in the primaries long ago. We had enough of them.

If it comes down to Rice or Harris, and Harris wins, I'll obviously support the ticket no matter what, but I sure as hell won't be placing any bets on a smooth completion of Biden's first, and probably only term, or a unified primary season in 2024. And that is assuming that a VP Harris is smart enough to not ruffle so many Democratic feathers as to exclude her from having a chance in the first place. If she wins, I'll be the first to cheer her on to prove me wrong, but I'd prefer Rice in that position from the start, and not take the risk.

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
20. What a gross post.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 05:45 AM
Aug 2020

Last edited Thu Aug 6, 2020, 06:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Those comments about Harris are way out of line and don’t belong here.

tman

(983 posts)
23. Somewhat agree
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 06:49 AM
Aug 2020

Biden should choose who he trusts, personally and professionally.

There's a massive misreading of Harris that she somehow commands big support in the among African American community. I don't know where this comes from as I can tell you first hand that's not really the case.

During the primary she had very low Black support which got even lower after she implied Biden was a racist.

Both women are competent, but I hope Biden goes with his gut feeling, whoever it may be.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
42. I can live with that
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:02 AM
Aug 2020

My hope is that his gut feeling leads him elsewhere, but at the end of the day, he has to work with his choice, not any of us. This is not a Dan Quayle or Sarah Palin situation. Biden has had plenty of time to study his options, and should know enough by now about all of them to be confident about his decision. If he's torn between several of them, well that's probably an indication that he has studied their attributes at least as well as their negatives. His choice, whoever it is, will be an informed one, and that's what counts.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
31. Strongly agree.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 09:55 AM
Aug 2020

Harris showed us who she is and what she wants to do in the first debate. She was completely frank and clear. Why anyone would doubt what their eyes and ears told them that night I don't know, but that was Harris in fine. As you point out, she faltered quickly in the primaries and didn't demonstrate any particular appeal to primary voters. I think Jill Biden mistrusts her and I hope Joe takes her misgivings seriously.

judeling

(1,086 posts)
22. I'm not sure Harris will even be in the Administration.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 06:42 AM
Aug 2020

The way this seems to be rolling out makes me think it is Rice. First it is only two names, normally the actual leaked short list would have three or four. But it is two with the rational that they had a close relationship with Biden. But, with Rice it is the relationship forged working in the White House together, with Harris it is the connection with his son. Also it is certainly also being reported that Biden promised a black woman to the Supreme Court.

Tea leaves I know, but tea leaves put in an arrangement.

Happy Hoosier

(7,073 posts)
29. Rice is perfectly competent, but....
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 08:39 AM
Aug 2020

She has never held elected office and never campaigned. She offers foreign policy expertise, but she could offer that as SoS. In short, she doesn’t bring anything to the ticket that she couldn’t offer In another capacity even better.

Not sure why the Harris hate here, and somewhat amused by the idea that she’d try to pack Joe off before 2024. She has politically sharp elbows. Nothing wrong with that. We need someone willing to throw an elbow when necessary.

lostnfound

(16,138 posts)
30. Rice is a strategic thinker trusted by Obama to work in his inner circle for 8 years
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 09:49 AM
Aug 2020

After Biden is elected, and especially in a failed economy, the trump cult is going to go off the deep end. We will have armed marauding gangs, home invasions, and domestic terrorism. It could evolve into “”The Troubles” like in Ireland.

We need strategic decision makers.

I think that as NSA, Rice had to understand the full range of security threats including domestic terrorism. She certainly understands the Russia threat. She was also engaged with the pandemic response plan.

Rice seems steady in character, knowledgeable and a deep thinker. She’s quieter but I don’t think that’s a negative.
I don’t think having a Republican son is bad either. It’s an experience in bridging the divide.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,355 posts)
44. Agreed about Harris
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:20 AM
Aug 2020

I would be happy with either but I hate that Susan Rice would be constantly dogged about Benghazi

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
50. I think Rice could put Benghazi to rest quickly.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 11:54 AM
Aug 2020

Hillary had to take responsibility and keep quiet about it, or saw herself carrying that burden, but Rice doesn't have to, and a little truth-telling could prove very embarrassing to the RW and its allies.

NNadir

(33,368 posts)
84. I also agree.
Thu Aug 6, 2020, 08:58 PM
Aug 2020

I also believe that Senator Harris has the experience to do the job if called upon to be President. I'm sure Susan Rice does too, but I just feel more confidence in Senator Harris in that role.

But what we really need is a President and Vice President who can rise to the occasion. Our country has nearly been destroyed and we need someone who can bring it together.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,149 posts)
122. Has anyone who has never run for office become vice president?
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:36 PM
Aug 2020

If so, how long ago?

It seems to me an experienced campaigner is a good asset. It's not just the presidential race - there are senatorial races that Democrats need to win, for the future of the country. Harris would be good at that; Rice is an unknown quantity for getting out the vote, and so on.

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