Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

CousinIT

(9,151 posts)
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 02:39 AM Aug 2020

Trump exec order to cut soc sec funding coming Friday.

Since no agreement on COVID relief. He is set to - by exec order - eliminate FICA taxes - Soc security’s dedicated funding - Medicare too. Yep. Obama did a ‘tax holiday’ too, but he wasn’t evil enough to make it permanent. Trump is. And Trump DID say gutting social security & Medicare would be priorities in his 2nd term.

After it’s gutted and losing money - defunded by a ruse tax cut - then Mitt Romney’s “TRUST” act will install a secret commission to decide how to slice and dice the programs to pieces until they’re gone.

It’s the Republican dream and this COVID relief disagreement gives Trump license to get it started.

WHERE did I get this info? Social Security Works, Committee to Preserve Medicare and Social Security - both watchdogs over these programs.

Got 5 minutes tomorrow? Another good day to call your reps (including Republicans) and raise hell about this and their defunding/destruction of USPS too.

ANYTHING that serves the public good - is going into Trump’s wood chipper.

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Trump exec order to cut soc sec funding coming Friday. (Original Post) CousinIT Aug 2020 OP
Congress holds the purse strings, not sure he can get away with that Thekaspervote Aug 2020 #1
Unfortunately, that's been said about almost everything he's done.... BamaRefugee Aug 2020 #2
A lot of what he's done wasn't done, though. Not to Hortensis Aug 2020 #5
Thx Hortensis!! Took the words right out of my mouth..and so succinctly Thekaspervote Aug 2020 #7
+1 ProfessorGAC Aug 2020 #21
Wouldn't that be great regarding Tiktok? Microsoft's Hortensis Aug 2020 #23
I hope not, Kasper.. The wannabe DIC can stuff his Cha Aug 2020 #4
Indeed! Thekaspervote Aug 2020 #6
".. Obama wasn't evil enough.. "?! President is NOT "evil" Cha Aug 2020 #3
I had to look up whether trump would actually have the authority to cut the payroll tax. scarletwoman Aug 2020 #8
TY scarletwoman.. that is a relief! Cha Aug 2020 #9
You're very welcome - it's a relief to me, too! scarletwoman Aug 2020 #10
Thanks, Scarlet. He can postpone but not forgive the SS payroll tax. Hortensis Aug 2020 #11
It seems pretty obvious that this is a BAD idea, for lots of reasons. scarletwoman Aug 2020 #12
I tried the link to a WSJ piece and before it disappeared Hortensis Aug 2020 #13
Yeah, trump definitely had help with this particular bad idea. scarletwoman Aug 2020 #14
Lol, "Committee to Unleash Prosperity." Just looked, and Hortensis Aug 2020 #17
Love your anecdote about your professor and the economics textbook! scarletwoman Aug 2020 #19
Lol, "right wingnut supply side horror show." Yup, same here. Hortensis Aug 2020 #20
Gee, isn't "inserting ideologically 'correct' propaganda into education" something... JHB Aug 2020 #26
So temporarily social security & medicare would lose a LOT of money, allegedly to be paid CousinIT Aug 2020 #24
Great post, but scary as hell. scarletwoman Aug 2020 #25
All too likely. Good call. nt crickets Aug 2020 #29
Does that mean I get a HUGE deduction on my paycheck when the holiday expires??? Takket Aug 2020 #27
It sounded to me like the employer has to pay it back. scarletwoman Aug 2020 #28
But if he can only defer it Bettie Aug 2020 #31
Sorry - I don't know anything more beyond what it says in the CNBC article. scarletwoman Aug 2020 #32
That's what I thought too Bettie Aug 2020 #33
To do this with less than 90 days left before a general election BadgerMom Aug 2020 #15
trumps desperately looking into ways to hurt us, duforsure Aug 2020 #16
Yes, I suspect trying to hurt everyone is part of it. Hortensis Aug 2020 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Aug 2020 #22
"ANYTHING that serves the public good - is going into Trump's wood chipper." crickets Aug 2020 #30

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
1. Congress holds the purse strings, not sure he can get away with that
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 02:51 AM
Aug 2020

As far as mittens amendment the House Dems have already said NO!

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
5. A lot of what he's done wasn't done, though. Not to
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:08 AM
Aug 2020

minimize the damage, but he's gotten a lot of protection for himself but little cooperation otherwise from McConnell, whose agenda isn't served by much of Trump's narcissistic nutcasery. And who is now fully aware that his party is losing support every day. Threatening people's SS and Medicare is not a winning move, of course.

ProfessorGAC

(64,425 posts)
21. +1
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 06:35 AM
Aug 2020

Of course, self-immolating behavior isn't outside PINO's "style".
Not sure the tiktok ban isn't going to backfire, as it motivates the least ambitious voters.
Doing things to make chances get worse is not outside the realm of possibility when a moron is running things.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
23. Wouldn't that be great regarding Tiktok? Microsoft's
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 07:05 AM
Aug 2020

apparently in talks to buy before the shut-down date. Still, hopefully that'll have come home to some of "the least motivated" anyway.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
8. I had to look up whether trump would actually have the authority to cut the payroll tax.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:18 AM
Aug 2020

I found the following article about it:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/03/how-trump-could-force-a-payroll-tax-cut-without-waiting-for-congress.html

How Trump could force a payroll tax holiday without waiting for Congress
PUBLISHED MON, AUG 3 - UPDATED TUE, AUG 4
Darla Mercado, CFP®

President Donald Trump might not have to wait for Congress to pass his payroll tax cut. He may be able to do it on his own.

Rather than waiting for lawmakers to come around to a payroll tax holiday, the president could order the Treasury Department to stop collecting the tax, according to an Aug. 2 op-ed in The Wall Street Journal. (sorry, it's behind a paywall)

<snip>

He does have the authority to postpone the collection of the payroll tax under the Internal Revenue Code,” said Michael Graetz, a professor of tax law at Columbia University and author of The Wolf at the Door: The Menace of Economic Inmakesecurity and How to Fight It. “But it’s only the authority to postpone and not forgive.

“He doesn’t have the authority to forgive the taxes,” said Graetz. “Only Congress can do that.” (my bold)

I find it a relief to know that he can't make a permanent cut to the payroll tax, he can only defer it.

I recommend going to the link and reading the rest of the article for a more detailed explanation, as well as a discussion of what the real world effects would be.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
11. Thanks, Scarlet. He can postpone but not forgive the SS payroll tax.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:36 AM
Aug 2020

"Policy experts warn that jittery employers might be reluctant to let employees pocket the savings from a payroll tax deferral. Forgiveness may not be guaranteed, and firms know they’ll have to cough up those taxes at some point or else face penalties and interest. “There’s a reason why we don’t go to the employee payroll side tax for deferral,” he said. “That’s because there are more stringent guardrails and penalties for not paying those taxes.”

Otoh,

“Trump could say to employers that we want this money returned to the workers,” said Moore in an interview with CNBC. “If you had this tax cut and people didn’t give the money back to the workers, they’re going to get pretty upset.”

("Want?" )

At one time I ran a small business. What a delightful problem to pile onto all the rest. If this happens, I foresee a future upsurge in fines and prosecutions of desperate business owners who stole ("diverted" ) the money to try to keep their operation afloat, including its employment.

"When sorrows come, the come not in single spies, but in battalions."

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
12. It seems pretty obvious that this is a BAD idea, for lots of reasons.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:41 AM
Aug 2020

Unfortunately, trump seems to love bad ideas.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
13. I tried the link to a WSJ piece and before it disappeared
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:44 AM
Aug 2020

just had time to realize it was giving advice for Trump to carry this out.

He does have an amazing fondness for really bad, destructive ideas, doesn't he? Given his severe cognitive limitations, I can only assume he has help identifying them so consistently.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
14. Yeah, trump definitely had help with this particular bad idea.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:55 AM
Aug 2020

From the CNBC article I linked to:

The (WSJ) opinion piece was authored by Stephen Moore, a member of the president’s economic recovery task force, and Phil Kerpen, president of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity.

Bad ideas are a Republican specialty. That's why they have to cheat to win elections.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
17. Lol, "Committee to Unleash Prosperity." Just looked, and
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 04:22 AM
Aug 2020

Kerpen was formerly VP of the Kochs' "Americans for Prosperity." And Stephen Moore, of course.

I see Arthur Laffer's with Unleash also. Decades ago, as his first action on the first day of my microeconomics course, the professor, without a word of explanation, instructed us to open our brand-new $50 textbooks to page X and cross out the entire Laffer curve section. Apparently political agents had gotten it inserted in the latest edition of a widely used text of accepted theory.

+1000 to that last. Though McConnell has consistently refused to go along with Trump's enthusiasm for a SS tax cut. Trump's apparently persuaded would help get him reelected, but McConnell doesn't seem to think it'd help him get reelected.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
19. Love your anecdote about your professor and the economics textbook!
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 05:14 AM
Aug 2020

Thanks for looking up the "Committee to Unleash Prosperity" - I just knew with a name like that it would have to be right wingnut supply side horror show. So, no surprise there.

I really don't understand why trump thinks that a payroll tax cut would help get him reelected. It's no help at all for all the people who are unemployed, and certainly not much of a help to the lowest wage earners.

I really hate that we're all at the mercy of such horrible beings as trump and McConnell...

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. Lol, "right wingnut supply side horror show." Yup, same here.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 05:36 AM
Aug 2020

Might as well laugh, tho. So far most of us have survived and we only have 6 more months of the worst attacks to get through. What's 250K, or 500K, whatever the real number is, among 330M?

JHB

(37,132 posts)
26. Gee, isn't "inserting ideologically 'correct' propaganda into education" something...
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 11:49 AM
Aug 2020

...they routinely accuse us of? Loudly, often, and with great outrage and rancor, usually.

CousinIT

(9,151 posts)
24. So temporarily social security & medicare would lose a LOT of money, allegedly to be paid
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 11:13 AM
Aug 2020

back later. (which you can never count on with Republicans' meddling).

I heard on one of the MSNBC shows that employers would not spend that 'saved' tax money or give it to employees - they'd put it a way knowing they have to pay it back after the "holiday" is over. And the article you cited is probably why.

If that's the case, then WTH is the point in that bullshit?

Well it's Donald freaking TRUMP, a 5 and a half year old in an old man's body. Jeeze.

Here's what soc security watchdogs suspect will happen:

Trump orders a 'tax holiday' so no payroll taxes are paid (including FICA). Employers stash the dough until the "holiday" is over, knowing they'll have to pay it eventually.

Then Biden gets elected and stops the "holiday", forcing employers to pay the money over a period of time.

Republicans scream like stuck banshees that Biden is "raising taxes!!" ( You KNOW they will sell it to an ignorant public that way and millions will swallow it whole ).

Of course Biden isn't "raising taxes", he's just restoring the taxes that were held off for a period of time. Dumb Americans won't understand this or care. Especially the Trump / Q Anon cult.

Republicans will stir up poutrage and DEMAND that those tax cuts be made permanent ie: employers no longer pay FICA taxes.

THAT removes 50% of social security and Medicare's funding.

THEN, Mitt Romney's TRUST act or something like it is put into place to essentially destroy social security and medicare, cut the benefits to damn near nothing or do away with them altogether since - like the USPS and for the same reason (Republican meddling) - they would be "insolvent" by that time. Nevermind that REPUBLICANS ENACTED POLICIES AND LAWS THAT CAUSED THEM TO BE INSOLVENT.

Mitt Romney is NOW calling social security "insolvent" (IT. IS. NOT.) -- but like the USPS, Republicans will make that claim a Republican-fulfilled prophecy. First they SAY it's insolvent, then they work to MAKE it that way.

They're evil.

E V I L.

And they've been after these programs to dissolve them since the moment they were created. Much like the ACA. ANYTHING that serves the public good will be destroyed by Republicans. Any chance they get.

Call your representatives. Don't get complacent or feel safe. Because you're not. The biggest thing that will back these bastards off of OUR money, is MASSIVE hell-raising by the electorate.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
25. Great post, but scary as hell.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 11:28 AM
Aug 2020

Somehow we need to destroy the Republicans and make the laws and policies of our government work for us, not the kleptocrats.

Will that prove to be impossible? Are we doomed to serfhood?

You're right, of course - we need to relentlessly raise hell.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
28. It sounded to me like the employer has to pay it back.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:06 PM
Aug 2020

I don't recall there being anything like a "huge deduction" when the payroll tax holiday instituted by Obama, ended.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
32. Sorry - I don't know anything more beyond what it says in the CNBC article.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 01:08 PM
Aug 2020

But it seems likely it would have to come due by the end of the year.

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
33. That's what I thought too
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 01:32 PM
Aug 2020

and that would be an utter disaster for a whole lot of people and businesses.

I guess that would be a "fuck you" to the next admin who would have to figure out how to deal with it AND start to collect it again.

BadgerMom

(2,766 posts)
15. To do this with less than 90 days left before a general election
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 03:56 AM
Aug 2020

seems to be the height of stupidity. The electorate already wants Republican blood, this would turn even more voters against all of them. If McConnell has any hope of retaining a majority in the Senate, he will block this. Trump is pretty dumb; the evil McConnell isn’t.

duforsure

(11,882 posts)
16. trumps desperately looking into ways to hurt us,
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 04:18 AM
Aug 2020

Expect it to escalate as he sees no chance of winning. He does this often in business when he can't get what he wants , he looks at ways to hurt people for revenge. He wants to destroy SS , which will only make more turn on him and republicans, turning them blue for life. Just like his Post Office folly is backfiring on him too.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
18. Yes, I suspect trying to hurt everyone is part of it.
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 04:34 AM
Aug 2020

We've all failed to serve Der Narcissist as he requires. Failure to elect him with an overwhelming popular vote and to show up for his inauguration, which burn, and new betrayals virtually every day since.

Response to CousinIT (Original post)

crickets

(25,896 posts)
30. "ANYTHING that serves the public good - is going into Trump's wood chipper."
Fri Aug 7, 2020, 12:46 PM
Aug 2020

Truth. The next few months are going to be long.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Trump exec order to cut s...