And so it goes in our schools today. Rather than actually teaching kids, they're punishing them for things they should be rewarding them for.

Get back to teaching, folks. Please.

One student pulled a gun on another student in they hallway. My son and his friend tackled and disarmed him. They were suspended for fighting. The school had zero tolerance on fighting. No compromise.

Zero tolerance? How about zero tolerance for stupidity on the part of administrators?

It apparently is a prerequisite of the job that the candidate must demonstrate that he/she possesses the IQ of a freakin' doorknob.

WHO KEEPS INSTITUTING ALL THESE DAMN ZERO TOLERANCE POLICIES???

Bake

He was involved with an incident with a weapon, he suffers the results of the policy. The nature of his involvement make no difference, since there is no leeway allowed in Zero Tolerance.






<Side note> I love the picture they chose for the story... I guess that is to represent the .22 revolver.

School districts have an overriding concern: Shifting responsibility/liability/tough decision-making AWAY from school administration, no matter who is trampelled on in the process.

No heros, only zeros.

Dud I mention that they will brook no self-defense measures?

isn't that the standard tactic???

The article does not say what happened before the gun was pulled and there could be a lot more to the story than we are seeing here. Certainly no matter what happened beforehand the person who pulled the gun was in the wrong and needs to face major consequences, but without having more info it is impossible to know if the kid who tackled him may have done wrong as well as there likely was a larger conflict. I don't know what really happened here and I don't want to make any judgments on the school's decision to suspend him without more information.

Why can't you just jump on the outrage wagon like everybody else?

From the story:

Lee County School District spokesman Alberto Rodriguez said the students involved in the rescue were given an “emergency suspension,” which is standard protocol:

“If there is a potentially dangerous situation, Florida law allows the principal to suspend a student immediately pending a hearing,” said Rodriguez.

This has "PR Fail" written all over it. The principal bungled this very badly.

Gets the kid who took down the potential shooter out of the school for a couple of days and away from the potential shooter's friends who might, just might, decide to go after the good kid.

Who was a good guy without a gun.

In most districts, the student loses credit for those days and is not supposed to be given time to make up missed work.

In some place it is but I think in most it isn't. My district requires us to send work home with the student or the parent and to take the work when it is done, plus let them make up any quizzes and tests.

"My district requires us to send work home with the student or the parent and to take the work when it is done"

Exactly the same procedure in my school's district.

It's not like the school throws them out and sends them on their way. In fact, that's considered illegal in most states as it violates a student's right to an education.

is to persuade the teacher to allow the student to get 50% credit for the work, tests, et als the student missed.

When teaching full time, I always ignored that rule and allowed the student to make up any work s/he missed with full credit. Then, it was up to the student.

But I know many teachers who didn't even allow the 50% credit.

And you of all people should know that.

Disarming someone else?

Nowhere in the section you quoted does it tell what happened before the gun was pulled, there is almost certainly more to the story. I am not saying the suspension was justified or not, but this article does not give nearly enough info for anyone to determine that.

...Are you looking for some kind of justification as to why the kid pointed the gun at another kid's head?

Never once did I defend the gun toter, so please stop with that bullshit strawman argument, I have always opposed gun violence and it pisses me off when you try to suggest I support it. I am however able to recognize that not everything is black and white, there are lots of shades of grey and just because one person was wrong does not automatically mean the other party is totally innocent. We don't know what happened, there may be good reason to suspend the kid based on details that are not reported. Unless you know all the details of the case you can not say one way or another whether or not the suspension was justified.

....I feel that I know enough of the story at the current time to express an opinion, and my opinion is that the kid who disarmed the kid pointing the gun may have saved at least one life by his actions.

To be honest, I really don't care what you think of my opinion on this or any other issue. Additionally, unless DU tells me otherwise, I can express my personal opinion on this board unless I violate the TOS.

But please feel free to go off on someone else, because we're done here.

You should be prepared for me to call you out on your bullshit, I will not have people try to claim I support kids pulling guns on other kids.

"...Are you looking for some kind of justification as to why the kid pointed the gun at another kid's head? " There is a very strong implication in that question, if you ask loaded questions like that don't be surprised when someone takes offense.

But it's so much easier for many of us to jump on the outrage wagon.

Many of these types of stories are meant to create outrage. They may not have all the evidence, or be one sided.

We are believing this story 100%.

Lee County School District spokesman Alberto Rodriguez said the students involved in the rescue were given an “emergency suspension,” which is standard protocol:

“If there is a potentially dangerous situation, Florida law allows the principal to suspend a student immediately pending a hearing,” said Rodriguez.

Do you know any of the details of the story beyond what this article reports or are you just assuming this article contains all the relevant details? Was there any sort of larger conflict that led to the gun being pulled? Do you know as a fact that the kid was suspended only for tackling the kid with the gun and not for something else related to the larger conflict? This article contains very few details and I just don't know how you can know the school made the wrong decision without knowing the details that were not presented in the article.

disarmed a person who was aiming a loaded pistol at another student. The rest is of no interest. Where I'm from, we call actions like that heroism. At great risk to himself, someone disarmed someone who was in a position to shoot and kill another person. How would you define that?

I do think it is ignorant to say "the rest is of no interest" however because there could be details that are of interest. What if this was a gang fight and the kid tackling the gun wielder was from a rival gang? To be clear I am NOT saying that is what happened, I don't know anything about what happened apart from what the article says. My point is that there may be more to this story than we realize and we can not just assume that the kid was suspended for a heroic action.

I think there are a lot of explanations alternate to the one assumed. Kids do really dumb things sometimes. Some of the violent episodes have been about gaining fame. These guys have gained their 15 + minutes without doing severe damage or going to jail. They also "proved a point" that the NRA keeps trying to make.

I wonder what their relationship was prior to the incident.

And others are saying the story is incomplete.

And how many times have the media corrected previous stories? A whole lot.

so that things could settle down in the school. Imagine how much testosterone and rumours were floating around the school!

JFC, minds so open around here you couldn't drive a gnat through them.

The administrators have no idea who's lying, who's telling the truth, who was involved and who wasn't.

This removes the students from the environment until an investigation is completed.

"That does not change the fact the the suspension..."


I think that's less fact, and rather more opinion. Quite easy to confuse the two, sometimes...

If the student faced some sort of danger, a 3-day suspension will hardly remove that. In any case, the police should be involved.

Perhaps I'm missing something.

Once they had the time to talk to people involved and get the full story, they let him back to school and the other is in more trouble. Which also sounds good to me.

Glad no one got hurt and sometimes it takes a bit of time to figure things out.

...what most people accept as a simple fact: news gathering and reporting are dependent upon human beings, with all their shortcomings. Initial media reports are regularly subject to revisions and alterations, as facts are confirmed or discarded on the basis of more reliable sources. There is nothing inherently evil or conspiratorial about this process, it's just the way things naturally evolve. Most people understand this---why don't Gun Enthusiasts? Just because initial news reports don't describe a firearm with Ted Nugent-approved accuracy, doesn't mean that the Evil Mainstream Media are out to get you. Believe it or not....

...large and small caliber handguns.

Looks like somebody at the media outlet decided to add a picture of a larger handgun for "dramatic effect". The MSM is always doing crap like that.

in some accidental shootings, doesn't point) a gun, pulls the trigger (accidentally or purposely) and bullets come out the end with deadly speed. The speeding bullet, expelled with great force from the gun, then does great damage to whatever it impacts.

Whether the gun is a .22, a .45, a 9mm, a 357, or any other size doesn't affect the fact that all guns can kill. We may or may not be aware that the size of the gun and the distance involved can have a major impact on the deadliness of the gun.

I'm sure that the photo used to illustrate the article was chosen because it was a (hand)gun, not because the photo was an accurate dipiction of the size, make, and model of the one taken from the student.

a little sunshine and laughter today. You've made the world a better place, I'm sure.

They would be heroes then

Need to be suspended. A real teaching moment.

They'll probably suspend a student if they breathe too loudly.

Actually reading the linked story can be a source of information about the linked story.

There was a violent altercation involving a gun and people fighting.

The students who wrestled the gun away were suspended on an emergency basis in the same way all cops involved in a shooting, no matter how heroic their actions, are suspended pending investigation.

The school investigated the incident and said, okay, you three guys were just wrestling the gun away from the bad kid, and the kids who wrestled the gun away return to school tomorrow. (Monday)

A story about nothing.

The student who intervened said he was fearful of his safety. It makes perfect sense to get all of the actors out of the school situation until the police can do their work and counselors can make sure those who aren't in jail are safe to return to school.

The Principal was 100% correct in this move, and I am sure it is in the best interests of all of the students including the one who intervened and the students who will be in school the day after this incident.

Please, just stop with this gun promotion nonsense. America is fed up with this.

Remember the gunman was on the football team...in way too many schools the football team subscribes to the same "one for all, all on one" doctrine as the Hells Angels. This kid knew he was going to get the shit kicked out of him for doing the right thing; suspending him until they cooled off was the right thing.

He probably went home with his assignments for the next few days...and his "write a one-page essay on a time you faced a great challenge in your life" is going to be way more interesting than what they usually get.

What is hard to understand about that. Give everybody a few days to settle down and get some counseling.

Very wise move by the Principal to try to avoid escalation of the problems.

Cooling off periods make a great deal of sense. They don't guarantee there will no further repercussions, but it does give the authorities an opportunity to investigate and to speak with any students that are likely to make trouble. And it allows the school to get a heightened security plan in place if they feel that might be necessary.

I have no idea why you are struggling with these basic concepts, unless it is just because you want to make some point in favor of guns at schools.

It does not appear to be a 'cooling off' but a punishment:

And can you please cite a source for the quote that you attribute to the school in the final sentence of your post? Because the article I said did not say anything like that what so ever.

Go ahead and tell everyone here what happened before the gun was pulled, please make sure to present all sides of the story because the article in the OP really only gives one side of the story and I want to know the school's side of the story. Because you claim in your subject line that this is about "zero tolerance" please also cite where the school district said their actions were based on a zero tolerance policy. If you can not cite the details I have asked for then please realize that you do not know as much about this case as you seem to think you know.

it is usually pro-gun people who are saying 'don't rush to judgement without all of the details...'

As for the football team, haven't we noticed here that athletes seem to get preferential treatment? The gunman is being allowed to return after his three days...

From the available sources it appears the gunman and his target were arguing, two other students, otherwise uninvolved, took the gun away. The school story is mostly "privacy concerns" with some mention for failing to cooperate.

Since you do have such great knowledge, please explain why the student who allegedly aggravatedly assaulted with a deadly weapon without intent to kill (now there is an oxymoron for he ages) is being allowed back as well...
http://www.fox4now.com/multimedia/videos/?bctid=2198304678001 {I realize it is Fox, but sometimes they are a reliable source when they say what someone wants them to say. OTOH maybe none of this ever happened...}

The only "great knowledge" that I have is the realization that I can't know everything that happened based on a single article that omits key details. I never claimed to have great knowledge, in fact the point of nearly every post I have made in this thread is that I don't know what happened and neither does anyone else except for those directly involved.

from rushing someone to the guillotine here. To be clear, I cannot accuse you of being in that group as I do not keep lists of those that do.
My main point, as I have maintained in threads on bullying, is under current school admin, there is no difference between a victim and a perpetrator. One would think if there was a general fight or some such, the school would make it clear why the kids who disarmed a student pointing a loaded gun are receiving the exact same punishment as the gun wielder. If the suspension is for their protection, that should be admitted, no matter how embarrassing.
Without a clear statement either way, I admit I am making assumptions. I will give the benefit of the doubt until/if this story is updated.

The gun wielder is facing serious criminal charges of aggravated assault, the kid who tackled him got a short suspension for an unknown reason but will return to school on Monday. I don't know where you get the idea that they are facing the exact same punishment.

the gun wielder is facing charges. In the school, he can return Monday, the same as all other students involved- per the video I linked.
In the eyes of the school district, there is no difference between them.

If my understanding of the article is correct these are all emergency suspensions pending hearings. After the hearings the school can give them further penalties if there is evidence to do so, with the gun toter it is pretty much certain that he will face further penalties. The kid who tackled him is far more likely to successfully argue his case at the hearing, but again there may be details we don't know.

but I am cynical. I would think the gunman should be facing immediate expulsion.
A pastry gun is worth two days http://news.yahoo.com/second-grader-suspended-having-breakfast-pastry-shaped-gun-205636619.html
a bubble gun ten, reduced to four, reduced to two on appeal http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/kindergarten-suspension-pink-bubble-gun_n_2507017.html
but a real gun and threat to kill is at three- so far.

So stupid.

Hey... Zero Tolerance is Zero Tolerance.

Sounds logical to me.

We do not know the full reasons why the suspension took place, if you have this info please share it but I want an actual citation not just a claim that you think it is based on zero tolerance.

Although I do so with a few regrets, after all the student might have stopped a murder by disarming the gunman. Yet I do think he should be punished for his actions; the last thing we need to encourage are these so called 'heroes'.

Heroes get killed; they belong in books and movies, not walking around in society. Better to discourage these types of actions and remind people that it is better to rely upon the Government; if only for their own safety. To say nothing of the implications of allowing vigilantes to try and take up the roles that are the domain of the police.

I think we've overlooked the possibility that the hero of the hour might be traumatized by having to disarm the buffoon with the gun.

I think the other posters on this thread have it right: we don't know what went into suspending him. I sincerely doubt it was some weird type of 'retribution' for doing the right thing.

I have my doubts as to if he did the right thing after all. But perhaps you're right, he's likely traumatized from this ordeal. The young don't have the mental capacity to handle these situations, and ought to be shielded from them, and discouraged from these sort of actions.

Either way, it was right to remove him from school for a time.

you are saying it is better to watch one child murder another than to take action?

Violence is the domain of the state; not that of private citizens. I've often used that to support civilian disarmament, and I'm not going to change my opinion in light of this situation. If you encourage the young to take up violence for any purpose, then where do you draw the line?

I do not take to being a serf. Violence is not a privilege of the nobility and the criminal.

You'd be a private citizen under the protection of the State. If you want to carry a weapon and protect others then perhaps you should seek employment with the military or one of the many law enforcement agencies within the United States. Only those wearing the uniforms of the State ought to use violence, everybody else should be discouraged as much as possible.

Apart from the fact that even the Gunshine State has Gun Free School Zones, how old was the student with the rife? Was he 18 years old? Last I heard it was ILLEGAL, even in Florida, to have a weapon under 18.

I live in Collier County (Naples), 30 miles from this. There has been NO NEWS at all on this.

and that's saying something. We need to discourage heros? Seriously? So we need to discourage selflessness. I see. Either you're being snide and you're an under bridge dweller, or you're serious. I don't know which is worse.

gives me vibes of "under bridge dweller."

Next thing you know, every student will be coated head to toe in bubble wrap "for their own protection." Don't be a hero, don't have convictions, don't stand up for the weak - keep your mouth shut, get enough education to get a mediocre job, get laid off when they outsource your job halfway across the world, go home (if you haven't been evicted yet), put your feet up, and die.

Yes, I am on a tear, why do you ask?

Or was he suspended because he didn't shoot the gunman, but disarmed him.