In my own district there have been moderate population declines over the past decade or so - people don't have as many kids as they used to. Three schools have been closed, and it has saved a great deal of money.

Why is it necessary to insist that schools have thousands of children enrolled cramming 30 kids per class or forced to be closed? Cram 30 children in your class and you get funding. Not enough funding but some. If you can't cram 30 children in your class then you must close. It doesn't make any sense to me.

...maybe somewhere that's "high", but in California where I grew up 40 years ago, 30 was normal. In my kids school the last few years, 30 is normal.

If you look at private schools the class sizes are much smaller. I remember as what was called a latchkey kid, I was always quiet and reserved because I was depressed. I didn't always come to school. I got good grades when I did my work but I didn't always do my work, and I was too shy to ask for help. Most of my teachers never even knew I was there. The seemingly happy and outgoing kids were all on a first name basis with the teachers. The teachers knew what was going on in their life, knew when they needed help and got them help. I don't blame the teachers. I blame the way the system is set up. We need smaller class sizes.

...we had, always, 30-32 kids in the class. I went to a public high school after that, and it was always at least 30; the classrooms were pretty large. My friends mostly went to private (catholic) high school; their classes were all about 30-35 students.

I wouldn't argue that a smaller class size might be more appropriate, especially if kids are having trouble, but 30 has always been the norm in my experience. I don't remember it ever being an issue when I was younger.

The one certainty is that smaller classes are more expensive, and its hard to see advocating a more expensive path for a school system struggling on its existing budget, as almost every school system has been.

My husband struggled so much that he had to go to an alternative public high school. Not a charter but your classic alternative school where at risk kids who are dropping out of school or are flunking out of school are sent. There were smaller class sizes there and the teachers were actually able to give more attention to the kids who were struggling. It does work. My husband succeeded at the alternative school where he failed at the regular school. Yes, it is expensive. That's the point. We need to fully fund our school. We have been decreasing how much we spend on public education for a long time now. We need more money, lots more money.

the ed system. It is poorly allocated-not to the benefit of children.

I don't hear much out of them when it comes to education.

Of course, before it was defunded it had way too much money.

So - teachers are overpaid? There are too many administrators? Schools waste too much money on classroom supplies? They waste it on the arts? Or is it sports that its wasted on?

I'm not an authority on school systems everywhere, but here the answer to every one of those questions is NO.

Get the money to the classrooms and teachers, not to the paper-pushers.

And I do remember it being an issue when I was a kid. My parents took me out of the Santa Monica public school I was attending and put me in private school largely because of it. From thereon out, through high school, I was never in a class of more than 20.

My son was never in a class of more than 15 throughout his primary and secondary education. Except for 2 years, he was in public school.

is BS. I know in my school district they factor in administrators (and other non-teaching school staff) to make it seem like the student to teacher ratio is better than it really is.

that said they do that. It's hard to pick the right schools when the information is misleading and the performance comparisons are usually done by comparing state standardized test score. I don't consider that a good measure of how well a school is performing.

means more classrooms. That means more facilities which, in turn, means more construction, more personnel, more maintenance, more utlities.

I'm not saying it's what's best for kids, just that it is an economic and logistical reality; and with a billion dollar deficit, even a city like Chicago can't crawl out from under that monster reality.

I know, it stinks.

law.

the utilization survey is bunk.

Here we are closing many elementary and high schools. My own family has several teachers in it, and some of their schools are closing. And yes, some of the schools are under capacity by a lot. But if one looks closely at the numbers, it looks like the amount by which those schools are under capacity can largely be explained by the number of students who have been migrated to neighborhood charter schools.

To a suspicious mind, this looks like a manufactured crisis.

...then shut the public option down. It's been repeated over and over again. And the result is always the same: lower quality, higher cost.

Honest question.

But the deficit (in Philadelphia) isn't the sole reason for these migrations.

Underutilization is. And a declining tax base for neighborhood schools. And the fact that offshoring education to non-union charter schools is much cheaper for a financially beleagured school district.

I'm certain that no one *explitcly* planned the current trajectory for Philadelphia schools. But I am also certain that particular scenarios were game theoried out with respect to their outcomes on organized labor and traditional public schooling and that policies were enacted in order to optimize equally particular likelihoods.

I'm envisioning a policy debate whereby the architects of the charter school movement notice budget and funding trajectories and notice that enhanced promotion of charters might well accelerate the district along that trajectory and lead to a set of outcomes that the architects may regard as more-or-less favorable.

Not so much a conspiracy as a posture.

There's no point in maintaining services for 50,000 if the local population could only produce 30,000 (I'm just spit-balling numbers). If outlays exceed receipts then the service provider will go bankrupt; as certain as the Law of Gravity. For something as politically based as taxes, it would be political suicide to demand more money for a a shinking client base. Either they shed overhead or the client base will desert them which in turn exacerbates and accelerates the gravitic pull.

Yeah, that means jobs -- in the effected districts -- have to adjust accordingly. But the client base isn't shrinking, it's moving, and service provision should move with it. The demand still exists, just in a different geographic location. When I was growing-up my dad moved us from one town to another to another and finally to a different state following the construction jobs. I suspect, in time, my husband and I will move for similar reasons (but not to Chicago. The place sounds like a man-made disaster area).

We shouldn't be applying a business model to a public service.

If taxes are high and services are down then people move away because they have their family incomes, safety and prospects to consider first. No one will choose to live in a community whose services are stunting their family's prospects. Fewer people will move in and the death spiral will begin. People aren't stupid and truth be told the government owes them the most efficient and proficient services possible. We own the government, they operate at our pleasure. We don't owe them jobs they owe us for allowing them to have the authority to serve on our behalf.

we don't owe the government jobs. I think this conversation is over.

I have a very strong interest in autistic children and how they relate to math and science.

I'm autie myself, work in math and sciences fields. I want to see autistic kids succeed.
You probably know all the resources at hand, but if I can help out, I'd love to.

Thanks.

I'm not begrudging your son every possible educational opportunity. Nor am I begrudging the people who help your son their professions.

Those who teach do wonderful work; the Lord's work, but reality is still reality. If too many demands are put on those who fund the service they will break. Working class families only make so much.

And again, taxes and public services are political creatures. That we have schools and tutors and whatnot are expressions of the electorates' willingness to constitute these services. Rile them enough and they can just as easily change their minds. Bankrupt them, destroy their savings and then fail to teach their children and they will rebel at the ballot box or simply move away. If there is no Divine Right of Kings how less so any other government functionary, regardless of how noble we view their service. Some people may wish to fly but this isn't the Matrix.

I consider myself a liberal and only vote democrat because I don't want crazies to win, but the more and more democratic politicians side with corporations and not with people the more and more I lean more toward socialist democrat or Green Party. There are a lot more of us that are fed up withe the system as it currently is than some think. It is time for the 99% to take the power back from the 1%, and if the democratic party won't help with that then I won't be a democrat for much longer.

And yes, it is a manufactured crisis indeed.

Remember when Arne Duncan said the best thing that ever happened to New Orleans was Katrina.

Then they went in with all their billionaire power to build their little school utopia.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

And yes it IS the Democratic policy.

1/4 of chicago schools.

then they reopen them as charter schools.

That is how low our "Democratic" Party has sunk.

I am sick of the whole bunch of fakes.

than to steal money from the public schools. This is why it is a favorite scam of the Republicans. But nobody here will be surprised that Rahm Emanuel is cutting in on that action.

in Chicago!

it's no secret to anyone paying attention... political affiliation doesn't matter anymore.

No help there from...well...we know.

Forgive me ignorance on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school#Debate_over_funding

There are 96 of them currently in the City.
http://www.cps.edu/Schools/Find_a_school/Pages/SchoolSearchResults.aspx?Type=4&Filter=CPSSchoolType=Charter

Rahm has been ripping away at the public schools in the city since he became mayor.
There is even a well documented case where his minions hired astroturf protestors to undermine public education and promote privatization.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10168010

Parents have more choices.

Horrible.

And with an aging population, or a population declining in a region, there are fewer school age residents. And when these trends are long-term, it makes sense to consolidate because there are considerable fixed costs in running separate facilities. I worked in this field for a few years, determining attendance boundaries and researching the associated demography. There are trade-offs. Better to consolidate sites and free up resources for other measures to improve education.

mayor if attendance is down then it is wise to consolidate schools to reduce overhead coasts.

Rebel Diaz - Chicago Teacher

Published on Sep 12, 2012

Free download at http://rebeldiaz.bandcamp.com/track/chicago-teacher

(CHORUS)
Homey I was taught by a Chicago teacher!
Chicago teacher, Chicago teacher!
I learned to read and write from a Chicago teacher,
So I’m inspired by the fight from our Chicago teachers!


The teachers are tired, the students dumbfounded,
the budgets get cut so classes are overcrowded.
Streets full of violence, the blue code of silence
so imma keep rhyming til salaries start rising!
The unions uprising! takin to the streets!
The workers are United so the Mayor's got beef!
Rahm's a fake pretender with a corporate agenda
Neo Liberal Offender, of course you offend us!
This aint about money! That’s far from the truth,
they want better work conditions to teach the youth.
Politicians, I don’t trust em, its all in the name
the president, the mayor all want political gain.
Theyd rather put the kids in jail, shackle em wit chains,
then provide an education that challenges the brain.
Top down education..Chicago- the birthplace
And now its spreading nationwide all over the place
They don’t teach us how to think they teach us how to test!
they teach us how to work to put money in they check!s
The CEOS need to get up out the classroom
before these streets get hotter than the sand in cancun!
so join the picket line like mr pickett in his prime,
put on ya red shirt like the bulls in 95.
hit the streets with a sign that says im fightin for mine
IT’S A FORK IN THE ROAD AND U GOTTA CHOOSE A SIDE
And yes im proud to say I was a public school student
IT WAS PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER THAT FIRST TAUGHT ME MUSIC (2x)

(CHORUS)

Went to lil Lincoln School in a lil school bus
DEsegregation. Paid 20 cents for lunch
Reduced price ticket
For the lower income children
Art and music classes
In between Math and English
Now its different
They just teachin to the test
Forced by the feds
Or they losin that check
Too many children left behind
by this corporate assembly line
how they privatize?
education is a humam right!
and they kids gon be fine
they send em to private schools
while ours get sent to prison
or given a job servin fast food
cash rules
so it gets treated like a business
bought and sold
by businessmen turned politicians
so if Rahm was the chief of staff
and Arne Duncan got his start
in Chicago sellin off
the education system
then Obama gotta respond
the teachers or the corporations?
Which side is he on?
The streets is getting hot
They blame the heat on Chief Keef
But it’s a million others like him being created every week
If we don’t teach we don’t learn
And the streets is gon burn
Before it gets worse
I put on my red shirt

(CHORUS)

released 12 September 2012

Although they legally weren't allowed to . But the numbers being touted as underutilized schools are above national averages: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-06/news/ct-met-cps-school-closing-class-size-20130306_1_class-size-state-records-high-schools


"CPS documents outlining cutback plans refer to the number 30 as both the "ideal" and "average class size recommendation" for a Chicago classroom. All the ciphering about empty desks and underused schools derives from the assumption that all homerooms in a perfect world would be occupied by 30 children.

But state records show that actual classroom numbers are all over the map in Chicago, with some above 30 yet most well below. Last school year, for example, Chicago classes ranged from an average size of 23.8 in second grade to 25.1 in sixth grade, according to the state data. City class-size averages have been in the same ballpark for several years, the state records show.

Thirty is not the norm in most suburbs or downstate school districts either, according to state statistics that show most class sizes substantially below that.

The statewide average class size ranges from 20.9 in kindergarten to 22.8 in fifth grade."