General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone out there who's never broken the law?
What brings this topic up was my involvement earlier in another thread about felons owning guns.
Apparently a poster was insulted at my premise that they have broken the law, as I believe everyone has, at some point and is therefore a criminal, too.
Ironically, I was writing this (see below), but never got a chance to post it before I was blocked:
Never been arrested and never broke the law are two different things.
It never ceases to amaze me when I bring up the premise (not just to you but to countless others over the years) that everyone has broken the law at some point in their lives and is therefore a criminal, people are shocked, SHOCKED! And defensive... "How could wonderful me be one of THOSE people??!! I'M not a criminal!!"
When/if contemplated, rationalization usually sets in... "I was young, I didn't know (try that one on a judge), I didn't mean to (again, try that one on a judge), everybody does it, it was a different time," etc., etc., etc...
Then, when realization begins to settle in, it usually goes to 'levels' of crime... "But I'm not as bad as THEY are; I didn't do what THEY did!!."
It's all an egocentric attempt to assure ourselves we are who we believe ourselves to be: Honest, upstanding, trusted, respectful/respected. And while these are noble goals, no one is/has been that way at all times all their lives.
A truism sang by the great sage Mick Jagger states:
"Just as every cop is a criminal, and all the sinners saints."
Peace, my friend.
So, I want to know... Is there anyone out there who's never broken the law?
Brother Buzz
(36,364 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)please don't tell my children
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)When I took the labels off the pillows, too!!!
The Magistrate
(95,241 posts)"Enquiring minds want to know!"
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)but I was young and everybody did it.
)
The Magistrate
(95,241 posts)The sort of thing where a fellow sits behind a screen at a brothel with a view of the bed.
If you want anybody to show you theirs, you are going to have to show yours....
11 Bravo
(23,925 posts)You have a true gift for language that I both envy and admire.
Ellipsis
(9,124 posts)*grin*
riqster
(13,986 posts)But I'd say the commission of that crime was its own punishment.
Southpaw07
(82 posts)Good times. Malt liquor. Mess you up fast.
olddots
(10,237 posts)back to the question in the O.P why yes and no .
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Does that make me a potential rampage killer?
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)WITH ALL DUE RESPECT (emphasized so I don't get blocked again) it does make you, and me, and countless other DUers, criminals.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)There are traffic violations, civil infractions, misdemeanors and felonies- just to name a few. However, a traffic violation such as speeding no way equates criminally to a felony such as murder. If one were to ask if I were a criminal, I can honestly say no, I have no criminal record. Ask me about my driving record and I'd have to say I have had a ticket or three over the course of my life.
FSogol
(45,435 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)nearly everyone has at some point broken a law. Jaywalking, speeding, spitting in public, public fornication ; ) however breaking a law does not necessarily make you a criminal in the legal sense. An arrest and conviction needs to have occurred to identify someone as a 'criminal'.
If you take a strict dictionary definition and not a legal one, and wish to parse words, and offend people, then you might be correct.
A criminal is a criminal.
One who commits crimes is a criminal.
A convicted criminal is a convicted criminal.
One who has been convicted of a crime is a convicted criminal.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You're then not then using legal definitions in discussing the law, but rather contemporary definitions to discuss the law. I can see the convenience in that...
Iggo
(47,534 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I too would rationalize the two standards are the same if I needed to justify a position I could not justify. Well, I would if I were less honest than I am...
But, we can all safely presume that if an idiot is unaware that legal definitions are germain to a discussion of the law, his idiocy lies with him and him alone.
Good luck!!!
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)crime - /krīm/Noun
1.) An action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law.
2.) Illegal activities: "the victims of crime".
criminal - a person who has committed a crime.
"An action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law" says nothing that an arrest needs to have occurred.
My goal is a healthy discussion on this topic - I contend those offended (no offense to you, personally) might wish to ask themselves why.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)fizzgig
(24,146 posts)nothing that's going to land me in jail or result in any type of criminal conviction.
TygrBright
(20,753 posts)Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)fizzgig
(24,146 posts)i also drive an old volvo with all its lights. however, speeding in colorado does not become a criminal offense until you're going more than 25 miles an hour over the posted limit and the most i might hit is ten. as far as pot goes, everything under an ounce and paraphernalia has been a petty offense for longer than i can remember. hell, the fine for underage smoking was higher than petty possession. doesn't matter, at least for the time being, because it's legal here now.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)But they all become criminals sooner or later, sometimes without realizing it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)violations of traffic ordinances or smoking a joint.
Good grief.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Is it willfull?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Second offense marijuana possession in any amount is a FELONY, punishable by 2 to 10 years in state prison.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)has probably gone one or at least five miles per hour over the speed limit at SOME point in their driving history. Whether they actually have gotten a speeding ticket or not. I notice when I am driving that many people seem unaware that state law in this (and probably many other states) requires them to turn their headlights on when their windshield wipers are in use.
Of course, the only reason that I know this is because when I was driving to my grandmother's house entering Lewis County, NY there was a sign at the county border which said "State law: headlights are required when wipers are in use". Which I found to be a very strange sign to put up at a county border.
My guess is that there was a Lewis County sheriff who loved to give out tickets for that, and after the fiftieth case where the citizen said "I never heard of this law" a judge ordered him to put up some signs. "welcome to Lewis County, if it rains, you may be compelled to make a contribution to the county budget if you are not careful."
But is "breaking the law" really no different than "being a convicted felon"?
Cleita
(75,480 posts)There is a difference between breaking the law, traffic tickets for instance, or shop lifting, or getting busted for pot, but when you commit a felony like armed robbery or assault or murder, then it's time for scrutiny.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think his goes far beyond the safety ratings for a red herring, and becomes a... purple trout?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)But, I was fleet of foot then and outran the cops who wanted to break my skull.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)aikoaiko
(34,160 posts)Until married I was habitually guilty of:
§ 16-6-18. Fornication
An unmarried person commits the offense of fornication when he voluntarily has sexual intercourse with another person and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)i think all my illegalities are misdemeanor quality
i do support allowing felons to vote and think its really unfair when we dont allow them to vote as voting is not crime related.
however guns are crime related, so allowing felons to buy guns is just practically stupid.
although as with most things gun related, i just dont care that much
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)my point is that even if was caught and prosecuted and found guilty it would only be of misdemeanors not felonies
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Trying to help. You insulted me! I believe that you knew that from the onset!
28. With all due respect,
Did you think about it before you broke the law?
And, regarding people with addiction problems and mental health issues, there's often not much rationalization going on in the first place.
With all due respect, Are you out of your fuggin mind!
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)My premise is everyone has broken the law, and I stand with that premise.
The question is, "Anyone out there who's never broken the law?" Twenty-four replies thus far and not one "no."
Feel free to join in the debate.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon.
I can travel freely into Canada.
Now do you see exactly who you insulted.
You Owe Me An Apology!
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)Thank you.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)Maybe we should distinguish between violent felons and non-violent felons, but in general, felons shouldn't own guns. To dismiss felonies with "everyone has gone over the speed limit" is silly. What felony did you commit, if felonies are no big deal?
edited to add: I have no problem with drug users with no history of violence not being lumped with with other felons, but I think the right way to handle that would to stop making drug possession a felony.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)but that's it.
Generation_Why
(97 posts)But nothing came of it.
appleannie1
(5,060 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Since merely possessing those drugs is a felony.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)all it takes is one hit of acid. Ridiculous.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)And I don't like many of them!
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)It is virtually impossible to exist for long without committing a crime of some kind. I don't think everyone can possibly be aware of all the laws, even lawyers.
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)KG
(28,751 posts)But I never touched nothin' that my spirit couldn't kill...
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)I never got caught.
(4 years sober now)
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I was stopped by a cop once after I had been drinking. I sprayed some perfume into my mouth, and when he asked if I had been drinking, I said no. Luckily, I got out of that one.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)felons by definition are persons convicted of things like rape, murder, manslaughter, first-degree assault, grand larceny, armed robbery, and so on. We aren't talking about speeding, or drunk and disorderly, or misdemeanor drug possession. The law in every US jurisdiction I know of strips convicted felons of many civil rights; they may not vote, are not liable for jury duty, may not be licensed in the professions (medicine, accountancy, the law), and are not eligible to obtain a passport. Given all of this, why should convicted felons being barred from owning firearms be a problem?
uselessobot
(43 posts)If the majority of the people in a state want felons and the insane to have guns I say why not.
I think it is a bad idea but I also don't live in a state that wants to let felons and the insane have guns either.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)for a rolling right stop. Other than that, no, I haven't committed any crimes.
Montezumasdaddy
(10 posts)Minor in possession 20 + years ago (convicted)
Open intoxicant
Possession of weed
DUI
I've accidentally trespassed while hunting a few times
Driven my ATV on the road
Speeding
Operating left of center (convicted)
Operating on suspended license (convicted)
I've left my treestand on public property overnight
Ran a few stop signs/red lights
Hunted a few minutes too late
I'm sure there's many more, I'm tired of thinking.
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)...marijuana, of course, speeding, yep (but never ticketed, as I don't get all flamboyant about it - you know, weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, all that).
But I was mugged once, so that balances it.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... what's your point?
Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:08 AM - Edit history (1)
Wait, is lying against the law?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Of course, the states can write laws that are more strict than those for NICS.
Breaking the law isn't the issue.
Millions smoke pot. "USING" an illicit substance will also get you on the NICS. But it takes a conviction to get there, too.
talkingmime
(2,173 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)So what's your point?
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)I work with non-violent felons coming out of the criminal justice system.
All they want to do is get on with their lives, but they have to deal with condescension, contempt, stigma, denial of food stamps, housing, jobs, loans, and much more. And they are being judged/snubbed/punished by a vast majority who have broken the law themselves but are loathe to admit it.
I have, more than once, listened to unconvicted drunk drivers, weed buyers, tax frauds, disability frauds, trespassers, thieves, voyeurs, road ragers, batterers, litterers, sex offenders - on and on ad nauseum - have a serious discussion about the merits of letting "the criminals" (anyone other than them) have this or that right back.
My goal was not to preach, condemn, or offend. I am not a religious man, but this is the best way I've heard it put:
"Let he without sin cast the first stone," not, "Let he without an equal or greater sin cast the first stone."
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Or are you so dogmatic that you have become completely stupid!
treestar
(82,383 posts)Even those with no traffic tickets have still probably been speeding from time to time.
But that doesn't make everyone a "criminal." We could reserve that term for those who commit felonies, I suppose. There are people who deserve the term, whereas though the rest of us have broken a law at some point, we don't merit the term "criminal."
Comatose Sphagetti
(836 posts)crime - /krīm/Noun
1.) An action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law.
2.) Illegal activities: "the victims of crime".
criminal - a person who has committed a crime.
RKP5637
(67,083 posts)never realize it ... in the US it's very difficult not to break the law ... there are so many F'en laws. And, point in fact is congress, Many there sit on their fat asses contemplating more and more laws often with resulting duplicity. ... it's how they earn their keep!
Hell, in KS just being gay is against the law, you are automatically a criminal in the eyes of the law in the entire state of Kaaannnsas.
bluedigger
(17,085 posts)doc03
(35,293 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)On the other hand I felt too guilty to take my mother's Cheratussin and mine had expired so I just suffered with my cough.
pampango
(24,692 posts)2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)May have been physically possible a long time ago. May.