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(19,768 posts)
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:07 PM Mar 2013

Kids shoot and kill baby in stroller because mom didn't have money to give them.

Georgia Police Hunt Killers of Baby in Stroller

Georgia police are going door-to-door in search of two young suspects who are accused of shooting and killing a 1-year-old boy as his mother pushed him in a stroller.

Sherry West, the mother of the child, told police she was walking her 13-month-old son, Antonio, in a stroller Thursday morning through their Brunswick, Ga., neighborhood when two African-American boys approached her and demanded money. When she told them she didn't have any money, West said one of the boys pulled out a handgun.

"He said, 'I'm going to kill you if you don't give me money,' and I said, 'I swear I don't have any,"' West told WAWS-TV in Jacksonville, Fla.

West said she tried to shield her child with her arms, but the gunman shoved her and shot the baby in the head. West was shot in the leg.

http://news.yahoo.com/georgia-police-hunt-killers-baby-184607088.html

---

WTF?

208 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Kids shoot and kill baby in stroller because mom didn't have money to give them. (Original Post) Skip Intro Mar 2013 OP
I don't understand why she didn't just give up her purse. Mika Mar 2013 #1
Wow. One post and it is the victims fault. joeglow3 Mar 2013 #2
Police are not ruling anything or anyone out cali Mar 2013 #3
check your nose, because they arrested the boys. bettyellen Mar 2013 #83
based on what? demwing Mar 2013 #85
This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Mar 2013 #120
What doesn't smell right? Life Long Dem Mar 2013 #187
I agree with you Cali. FarPoint Mar 2013 #205
Do you often put words in other people mouths/posts? Mika Mar 2013 #4
She has every right to say "hey you piece of fucking shit, this is my purse. joeglow3 Mar 2013 #7
sure, but honestly what sane person would put themselves and their baby at risk cali Mar 2013 #14
Honestly, it is impossible that she actually had no money to give joeglow3 Mar 2013 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Mar 2013 #39
Well, the police apparently buy it. There have already been arrests. pnwmom Mar 2013 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Mar 2013 #96
Oh FFS. Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #97
It never fails to amaze me how some people are so quick think the worst about people Downtown Hound Mar 2013 #105
Who gives a ---- marions ghost Mar 2013 #108
What makes you think that the poster is in any way, shape, or form, related to a "gun culture"? AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #178
Gun Culture means that people marions ghost Mar 2013 #182
This message was self-deleted by its author marions ghost Mar 2013 #180
She pretty much did that. And look where it got them. Mika Mar 2013 #16
And women should not wear "slutty" clothes joeglow3 Mar 2013 #22
Step back. Take a breath. Mika Mar 2013 #27
At a minimum, your response is odd joeglow3 Mar 2013 #30
No pontificating on my part. Just asking why she valued her purse more than her baby. Mika Mar 2013 #36
Did she have a purse? leftynyc Mar 2013 #42
Yes. Here ... Mika Mar 2013 #44
Maybe it was just a reflex to pull away Rex Mar 2013 #50
There are probably other things in that purse besides any money she might have had slackmaster Mar 2013 #53
Even after they threatened to shoot your baby if you didn't hand it over? Mika Mar 2013 #58
I have been trained to fight back in that situation, if escape is not possible slackmaster Mar 2013 #60
Oh Lawd! alcibiades_mystery Mar 2013 #87
Go gitt'im Tiger! Downtown Hound Mar 2013 #106
Unless you have been in that situation yourself Aerows Mar 2013 #159
My martial arts instructor told our class. ... spin Mar 2013 #157
Um... bitchkitty Mar 2013 #163
"The eyes are the mirror of the soul" is a Yiddish proverb. (n/t) spin Mar 2013 #172
Yea, let me know how that works out bitchkitty Mar 2013 #186
Since my situational awareness has never failed me ... spin Mar 2013 #203
MAYBE marions ghost Mar 2013 #109
Maybe because she's a human who never imagined someone could kill a baby? pnwmom Mar 2013 #51
They threatened to shoot the baby if she didn't hand over the purse. Mika Mar 2013 #55
Why should anyone believe a word they say? slackmaster Mar 2013 #62
Well, they did do what they said they'd do if she didn't hand it over. Mika Mar 2013 #63
Very good point. Rex Mar 2013 #65
I think I know why some people had the strange knee-jerk reaction, and it isn't pretty. slackmaster Mar 2013 #67
The police have already arrested teens fitting the description, so apparently they believe her. n/t pnwmom Mar 2013 #71
Exactly, google "never trust your assailant." nt raccoon Mar 2013 #102
You can't be seriously arguing that she's culpable. So what is your point? pnwmom Mar 2013 #64
I AM NOT making any such argument. Mika Mar 2013 #66
Shock. Rex Mar 2013 #68
Yes. Exactly. nt pnwmom Mar 2013 #70
Maybe because her body was surging with stress hormones so her brain wasn't functioning pnwmom Mar 2013 #69
This message was self-deleted by its author Mz Pip Mar 2013 #78
+++++duh marions ghost Mar 2013 #110
By asking the question, you make the statement riqster Mar 2013 #76
Knee jerk all you want, but, I'm not. Mika Mar 2013 #77
How is saying the 'mother is in shock' from having her life threatened Rex Mar 2013 #80
Wrong. I'm saying that you accusing me of blaming the mother is knee jerking. Mika Mar 2013 #88
Point out where I accused you of blaming the mother. Rex Mar 2013 #90
Sorry, Rex. I should have referred to riqster in post #88, and not you. Mika Mar 2013 #92
NP Mika...these sub-threads are getting tedious Rex Mar 2013 #94
I'm not blaming her in the slightest. I'm trying to explain to you why her reaction pnwmom Mar 2013 #98
"I'm just askin'" is a tired, pathetic cliche muriel_volestrangler Mar 2013 #119
It's always so easy to critique and second guess Downtown Hound Mar 2013 #104
Absolutely marions ghost Mar 2013 #112
+1 Rex Mar 2013 #173
My sis in law marions ghost Mar 2013 #176
Running around with the wrong crowd at 15 Rex Mar 2013 #195
I had it happen, large handgun at point blank also marions ghost Mar 2013 #199
The cops were waiting for us. Rex Mar 2013 #206
This message was self-deleted by its author marions ghost Mar 2013 #175
Its very possible.. sendero Mar 2013 #127
Nobody outside this situation has HappyMe Mar 2013 #161
Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #144
Honestly, you should be ashamed theHandpuppet Mar 2013 #155
I read the ops link and there is no mention of a purse. rainy Mar 2013 #142
I posted the link in this thread several times. n/t Mika Mar 2013 #143
She probably couldn't think what to do. She was accosted and threatened with a gun... Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #197
Criminals don't recognize your rights. That's why they're called criminals. nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #111
Well, we know that guns don't kill people. pnwmom Mar 2013 #49
And not wearing slutty dresses can stop u from being raped joeglow3 Mar 2013 #103
Maybe they would've shot the baby anyway... love_katz Mar 2013 #6
maybe you should wait to see if the mother's account holds up cali Mar 2013 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Mar 2013 #21
I'm not blaming the mother. I'm saying her account of it doesn't cali Mar 2013 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Mar 2013 #31
Well, it does ring true. RebelOne Mar 2013 #81
Thank you, CreekDog. love_katz Mar 2013 #54
Are you embarrassed yet? They have arrested two boys MineralMan Mar 2013 #52
Maybe you should wait to see the evidence that law enforcement has on the guys Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #198
What purse? slackmaster Mar 2013 #12
I heard her say it in an earlier vid on TV. Here ... Mika Mar 2013 #28
where does it say she even had a purse? Beaverhausen Mar 2013 #47
Who said she didn't? Who said she even had a purse? pnwmom Mar 2013 #48
I posted the link several times, yet you ignore it. Mika Mar 2013 #183
Oh my god. liberalmuse Mar 2013 #56
Where did I blame? Fer christs sake, i asked why she didn't just hand the purse over. n/t Mika Mar 2013 #61
keep digging. you're burying yourself dionysus Mar 2013 #158
what purse? demwing Mar 2013 #82
Read thru the thread. I've posted the link here 2 times. eom Mika Mar 2013 #84
thanks /nt demwing Mar 2013 #113
When I go for walks in my neighborhood - which is almost every day - I never, ever carry my purse. patricia92243 Mar 2013 #107
Again ... Mika Mar 2013 #184
I'm sure a lot of people wondered that. I'm guessing she couldn't think fast enuf what to do. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #114
It wasn't theirs. Deep13 Mar 2013 #131
I don't understand why they executed a baby. joshcryer Mar 2013 #150
Message auto-removed chocolatewatchband Mar 2013 #174
Gun nuts shrug and return to their gun porn. nt onehandle Mar 2013 #5
Dehumanizing people is what lead to this atrocity. Try not to contribute. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2013 #33
"Gun nuts" think she should have a right to shoot back. Deep13 Mar 2013 #132
This message was self-deleted by its author onehandle Mar 2013 #8
This would be shocking in another country Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #9
It's shocking here slackmaster Mar 2013 #15
No....gun violence is not shocking in America. Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #19
If it wasn't shocking then why the outcry? NutmegYankee Mar 2013 #25
I suppose people have different reactions. Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #43
That's bullcrap. slackmaster Mar 2013 #32
Is it a gun problem, or a bad parenting problem? Skip Intro Mar 2013 #38
There may be some truth to this. AverageJoe90 Mar 2013 #41
"If the woman in this story had had a gun, her baby might still be alive" Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #45
Maybe a GOP talking point, but I sure haven't seen anyone post that on DU slackmaster Mar 2013 #57
Wow, great answer. Skip Intro Mar 2013 #95
This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #149
Why does it have to be either or? wryter2000 Mar 2013 #75
Duh duh duh --Bad parenting and bad society marions ghost Mar 2013 #118
Right marions ghost Mar 2013 #116
Yes, it's shocking here for someone to shoot a baby in the face. nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #115
Most people will forget about it tomorrow marions ghost Mar 2013 #122
Well, I'm shocked. So it's shocking. That is different from what to do about it. Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #125
Not shocked enough to really care marions ghost Mar 2013 #128
Back to culture war again, eh? Can't let one opportunity to cast moral aspersion pass? Eleanors38 Mar 2013 #153
You're damn right I blame... marions ghost Mar 2013 #160
I blame the half-hearted manner in which our 49-year War On Poverty has been conducted slackmaster Mar 2013 #164
Yeah I agree but marions ghost Mar 2013 #165
Anyone could buy a rifle, shotgun, or handgun by mail-order with no questions asked in 1964. slackmaster Mar 2013 #166
We are an anomaly among civilized nations marions ghost Mar 2013 #168
I'd like to see the root problems of violent crime addressed. slackmaster Mar 2013 #169
Yep marions ghost Mar 2013 #170
Heard it live, which confirms what I said: Culture war... Eleanors38 Mar 2013 #167
The fact that someone else thinks there's a solution different from yours makes Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #193
did they have the 2nd press conference with updates yet ? based on CNN JI7 Mar 2013 #10
Well...I'll wait and see what comes out before deciding what I think. TwilightGardener Mar 2013 #13
I am in the corner with you. Something doesn't seem right about this situation. I may bluestate10 Mar 2013 #141
This one doesn't pass the smell test kudzu22 Mar 2013 #17
I know what you mean, but in this case, they've arrested the guys, and I saw her on tv.... Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #117
Yes, I'm very glad I was wrong kudzu22 Mar 2013 #171
As I did yesterday, I'll just wait and see what develops here MineralMan Mar 2013 #18
According to her. I'm not 100% convinced. Quantess Mar 2013 #20
CNN reporting that police have arrested two youths in this case. BlueCheese Mar 2013 #23
A $10,000 bounty. Mika Mar 2013 #34
Sorry-- what does that mean? BlueCheese Mar 2013 #37
The person who gave the tip will get $10k if the tip leads to arrest & conviction.nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #192
17 and 14. nt Skip Intro Mar 2013 #35
Exactly as I guessed. Get the records of which sterling youth weren't in schools. alphafemale Mar 2013 #72
This... doesn't smell right. Marr Mar 2013 #29
Jesus nt. lefty_mcduff Mar 2013 #40
Not sure what does not smell right about this timdog44 Mar 2013 #46
There are NO extenuating circumstances here! marions ghost Mar 2013 #126
Absoultely timdog44 Mar 2013 #129
I haven't been in the multiple threads marions ghost Mar 2013 #134
It is just as ugly timdog44 Mar 2013 #135
That is my Number One question also-- marions ghost Mar 2013 #137
What exactly does NOT SMELL RIGHT? Why question the victim's story? How fucked up can you get? KittyWampus Mar 2013 #73
Susan Smith.. HipChick Mar 2013 #89
The cynics should realize that the police have already arrested two teens. pnwmom Mar 2013 #99
So I wonder why the Police are still saying they are investigating all aspects of the story HipChick Mar 2013 #101
Diane Downs and Charles Stuart, too REP Mar 2013 #138
Thank you for mentioning those cases. nt raccoon Mar 2013 #162
Also, the victim's other son was killed as he was trying to kill someone REP Mar 2013 #204
Notice how they make sure to mention the race of the murdering pricks first? REP Mar 2013 #74
I think public safety is served by releasing as much descriptive information as possible... slackmaster Mar 2013 #79
As I mentioned, when giving the BOLO info, age/race/sex makes sense; in that para, it didn't. REP Mar 2013 #136
On our local Atlanta WSBTV report of the arrest RebelOne Mar 2013 #86
It doesn't matter now. I mattered a lot before they were arrested. slackmaster Mar 2013 #91
Maybe it was a hate crime. Zax2me Mar 2013 #147
Does not compute. Sorry. Catherina Mar 2013 #93
what does not compute ? they arrested 2 in this case JI7 Mar 2013 #100
One thing: public street, plain view, several people heard the shots. If this were fake, Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #123
The police would have done a GSR test on the mother's hands, first thing. Ikonoklast Mar 2013 #130
Do you have a link, please. I would like to read all the article "not the mother's first loss of a patricia92243 Mar 2013 #133
She lost an older son to a knife attack. Here is a good link with fuller story: NYC_SKP Mar 2013 #145
Her son was the armed mugger. The victim got the better of him & killed him.nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #194
I edited the post to add it Catherina Mar 2013 #146
I have been on every thread I can find on this. timdog44 Mar 2013 #121
+1 It's shocking even for DU. nt Union Scribe Mar 2013 #151
Evil people do harm. Sometimes they can't be stopped. They have the element of surprise, Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #202
Every thing is fine in our inner-city.... lib2DaBone Mar 2013 #124
Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were 10 when they murdered a 2 year old in Liverpool, UK REP Mar 2013 #139
Wow. This is Israel's fault? Warren DeMontague Mar 2013 #201
My take on this: America is going insane. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #140
Stone. Cold. Gone. Zax2me Mar 2013 #148
Things are different.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #152
I don't know what happened here, but in the 80's, I was visiting my sister at Christmastime... MiddleFingerMom Mar 2013 #154
and nothing is going Niceguy1 Mar 2013 #156
I can't believe the people here that are blaming the mother. appleannie1 Mar 2013 #177
Maybe, for some, it's easier than believing America's youth are really this lost. Barack_America Mar 2013 #179
With the love of guns and lack of humanity there is now in this country this horrorific appleannie1 Mar 2013 #181
...and your suggestions are... Keefer Mar 2013 #191
I don't think the majority of America's youth would murder a baby like this octothorpe Mar 2013 #208
A few people made a knee-jerk association with the Susan Smith case slackmaster Mar 2013 #185
The Charles Stuart Case.. HipChick Mar 2013 #188
I noted the differences between the two cases. nt Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #200
This message was self-deleted by its author Honeycombe8 Mar 2013 #196
I'd want the lying family members prosecuted as well. Zax2me Mar 2013 #189
Mugshot of 17 year old suspect released madville Mar 2013 #190
I saw the mother being interviewed. She said she wouldn't mind if the kids died for this applegrove Mar 2013 #207
 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
1. I don't understand why she didn't just give up her purse.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:09 PM
Mar 2013

If they threatened to kill the baby if she didn't hand over her purse, why didn't she?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
3. Police are not ruling anything or anyone out
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:13 PM
Mar 2013

the mother's account just doesn't smell right.

Response to cali (Reply #3)

 

Life Long Dem

(8,582 posts)
187. What doesn't smell right?
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:07 PM
Mar 2013

I don't think the mother was stalking the boys for a stand your ground law.

FarPoint

(12,207 posts)
205. I agree with you Cali.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 07:11 PM
Mar 2013

Mom in interview was way too calm. My senses were alarming. I'll say I'm finding mom a person of interest.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
4. Do you often put words in other people mouths/posts?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:13 PM
Mar 2013

Get some reading comprehension lessons.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
7. She has every right to say "hey you piece of fucking shit, this is my purse.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:16 PM
Mar 2013

Get your lazy fucking ass out of my face." and not have to worry about her baby being killed by said pieces of shit.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
14. sure, but honestly what sane person would put themselves and their baby at risk
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:18 PM
Mar 2013

like that?

Frankly, I'm not buying Mom's account of this.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
26. Honestly, it is impossible that she actually had no money to give
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:31 PM
Mar 2013

Maybe the facts turn out to be false. However, that was NOT addressed in the post I responded to. The comment was that since she refused to turn over something she did not have, she is to blame. That is disgusting and bull shit.

Response to cali (Reply #14)

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
59. Well, the police apparently buy it. There have already been arrests.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:10 PM
Mar 2013

BRUNSWICK, Ga. (AP) — Police arrested two teenagers Friday who are suspected in the shooting death of a 13-month-old baby in a stroller and wounding the baby's mother during an attempted robbery.

Seventeen-year-old De'Marquis Elkins is charged as an adult with first-degree murder, along with a 14-year-old who was not identified because he is a juvenile, Police Chief Tobe Green said.

Police announced the arrest Friday afternoon after combing school records and canvassing neighborhoods searching for the pair. The chief said the motive of the "horrendous act" was still under investigation and the weapon had not been found.


Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/article/Police-arrest-2-teens-in-Ga-baby-killing-4375946.php#ixzz2OIzEgSnN

Response to cali (Reply #14)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
97. Oh FFS.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:36 PM
Mar 2013

"not buying Mom's account of this".

Lets contort ourselves into pretzels to find a way to make this not the fault of the people who shot the baby.

It's not like they're truly bad people, like the people who watch porn.

Downtown Hound

(12,618 posts)
105. It never fails to amaze me how some people are so quick think the worst about people
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:46 PM
Mar 2013

Especially those that have just suffered an enormous trauma. Please do yourself and the entire planet a huge favor and just STFU.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
108. Who gives a ----
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:51 PM
Mar 2013

what Mom's account is. Two kids kill her child.

And you say "what Mom would put her baby at risk like that"?

Wow--this is what gun culture does to people.

 

AnotherMcIntosh

(11,064 posts)
178. What makes you think that the poster is in any way, shape, or form, related to a "gun culture"?
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 02:16 PM
Mar 2013

Seriously, how does a "gun culture" have anything to do with a poster saying:

"what Mom would put her baby at risk like that"?

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
182. Gun Culture means that people
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 02:24 PM
Mar 2013

are so used to living in a climate of acceptance of gun violence that they don't even see the point--that nothing the mother did was responsible for her child getting killed. The problem is the access to guns. Anyone in a culture NOT saturated with guns would agree with me. No child should die this way no matter what the mother's reaction was.

This is what living in a gun culture does to people. They don't see the issue correctly. I'm sure you do, tho.

Here's some thoughts on the subject--

---http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/23/opinion/nocera-saving-children-from-guns.html?hp&_r=1&

Response to marions ghost (Reply #108)

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
22. And women should not wear "slutty" clothes
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:28 PM
Mar 2013

Proof is in the pudding (rape statistics).

You are disgusting.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
27. Step back. Take a breath.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:31 PM
Mar 2013

Your knee jerking over something I never said surely must be tiring.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
30. At a minimum, your response is odd
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:35 PM
Mar 2013

A baby is shot and killed and your immediate thought is to pontificate on handing a purse over to a piece of fucking shit.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
36. No pontificating on my part. Just asking why she valued her purse more than her baby.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:39 PM
Mar 2013

Even the police advise handing over a purse to avoid injury or death during a robbery.

Seems as though it is you who is doing the pontificating over her right to tell them to F off, damn the torpedoes, not seeming to care what tragedy resulted.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
50. Maybe it was just a reflex to pull away
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:05 PM
Mar 2013

from the guy grabbing for it? She said she has no money, I personally would have handed it over to prove it myself - but we all do things differently. Maybe she thought it wouldn't matter, they grab for her and the rest we all now know.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
53. There are probably other things in that purse besides any money she might have had
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:07 PM
Mar 2013

Driver's license, credit cards, medication, phone, address book, family photos; all kinds of things that the owner might value but a robber wouldn't care about destroying.

If someone made a grab for my bag I'd fight like hell to keep it.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
60. I have been trained to fight back in that situation, if escape is not possible
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:12 PM
Mar 2013

Because you have no assurance that a wacko kid with a gun isn't crazy enough to shoot you even if you do cooperate.

I'd go for the gun.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
159. Unless you have been in that situation yourself
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 08:42 AM
Mar 2013

you have no idea how you would react. If someone pulls a gun on you and threatens you, it is an unpredictable situation to say the least.

And it is all speculation whether or not they would have shot her anyway if she HAD handed over her purse. These thugs shot a baby, for heaven's sake. If they would do that, whose to say they wouldn't shoot her anyway?

spin

(17,493 posts)
157. My martial arts instructor told our class. ...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:50 AM
Mar 2013
You only use the tricks I will teach you when absolutely necessary.

Suppose you are on a lonely street and your situational awareness fails you. You find yourself facing an armed person who asks for your wallet.

Look into his eyes as the eyes of the mirror of the soul.

If you feel that all he wants is your wallet just give it to him. You can always replace your money, your driver's license and your credit cards. You can't always replace your health and dead is dead.

However if you feel your attacker plans to hurt or kill you then you have absolutely nothing to lose by fighting.


I have always considered him to be a very wise sensei.

bitchkitty

(7,349 posts)
163. Um...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 11:37 AM
Mar 2013

Look into his eyes as the eyes of the mirror of the soul? You sound like George Bush seeing Putin's soul.

spin

(17,493 posts)
203. Since my situational awareness has never failed me ...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 05:28 PM
Mar 2013

I have never been the victim of a mugger.

Of course the eyes are only one part of judging the aggression level of a person who might attack you.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
109. MAYBE
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:52 PM
Mar 2013

she didn't know they'd pull out a gun and kill her kid????

Good god, somehow this is the mother's fault?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
51. Maybe because she's a human who never imagined someone could kill a baby?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:06 PM
Mar 2013

And in the stress of the moment just said the true thing -- that she had no money in it?

How do you know they wouldn't have killed the baby anyway?

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
55. They threatened to shoot the baby if she didn't hand over the purse.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:09 PM
Mar 2013

They had a gun. Used it on her for not handing it over. Threatened to shoot the baby if she didn't hand it over. The shooter proved that he will escalate if she didn't comply.

The odds at that moment were far greater that her baby would be shot if she didn't hand it over.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
63. Well, they did do what they said they'd do if she didn't hand it over.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:14 PM
Mar 2013

So, I guess on that, they did tell the truth.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
65. Very good point.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:16 PM
Mar 2013

Why do so many here think the mom is involved? Was it something the police said?

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
67. I think I know why some people had the strange knee-jerk reaction, and it isn't pretty.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:17 PM
Mar 2013

Other than being pretty hypocritical.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
71. The police have already arrested teens fitting the description, so apparently they believe her. n/t
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:22 PM
Mar 2013

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
64. You can't be seriously arguing that she's culpable. So what is your point?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:14 PM
Mar 2013

That she made a mistake?

Even though we'll never know if the baby might have been killed anyway. She didn't have the money they wanted.

"He asked me for money and I said I didn't have it," she said. "When you have a baby, you spend all your money on babies. They're expensive. And he kept asking and I just said 'I don't have it.' And he said, 'Do you want me to kill your baby?' And I said, 'No, don't kill my baby!'"

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/article/Police-arrest-2-teens-in-Ga-baby-killing-4375946.php#ixzz2OJ0YKx57

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
66. I AM NOT making any such argument.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:16 PM
Mar 2013

Despite the multiple knee jerk reactions, I am simply asking why, if her baby was threatened if she didn't hand over her purse, why didn't she just hand it over?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
69. Maybe because her body was surging with stress hormones so her brain wasn't functioning
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:20 PM
Mar 2013

as well as yours is, while you're sitting and typing on your computer?

Response to pnwmom (Reply #69)

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
110. +++++duh
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:57 PM
Mar 2013


People who have never been on the wrong end of a gun have NO idea. I have --5 times--in very ordinary situations (no, I'm not a war correspondent).

You can't think. You go numb. You don't react "correctly"...

riqster

(13,986 posts)
76. By asking the question, you make the statement
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:43 PM
Mar 2013

Dodge all you want, but you are blaming the victim.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
77. Knee jerk all you want, but, I'm not.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:46 PM
Mar 2013

Other posts here do (by attributing some brain malfunction, hormones, stress, etc etc). I simply ask why.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
80. How is saying the 'mother is in shock' from having her life threatened
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:59 PM
Mar 2013

a knee jerk reaction AND since you are playing with syntax, the boys DID NOT ask her for her purse. They demanded MONEY. Why do you assume the two things mean the same thing? That is kinda knee jerky...but carry on.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
88. Wrong. I'm saying that you accusing me of blaming the mother is knee jerking.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:07 PM
Mar 2013

Nice attempted shift, though.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
90. Point out where I accused you of blaming the mother.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:11 PM
Mar 2013

I gave you reasons why she maybe didn't give them her purse.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
94. NP Mika...these sub-threads are getting tedious
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:18 PM
Mar 2013

and you cannot help but appear to be replying to whoever is right above you. I just wanted to make sure you knew I was NOT accusing you of blaming the mother.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
98. I'm not blaming her in the slightest. I'm trying to explain to you why her reaction
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:20 PM
Mar 2013

was well within the norms in that totally shocking, abnormal situation.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,150 posts)
119. "I'm just askin'" is a tired, pathetic cliche
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:11 PM
Mar 2013

that people use when they realise they've dug themselves into a shitty hole. You're not going to come out of this looking good; why not just stop now?

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
176. My sis in law
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 01:59 PM
Mar 2013

living in FL, drove into her own driveway and a guy jumped out of the bushes and pointed a gun at her head (her kid was in the back seat). She went completely hysterical batshit insane on the spot, threw everything in the car out at him. He picked up the purse and ran. She has never gotten over it. Paranoid to this day. And one of the things she says is how her brain turned to jello with fear.


 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
195. Running around with the wrong crowd at 15
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 05:08 PM
Mar 2013

long story short, cop with a HUGE revolver about 3 inches from my face yelling at all of us to get out of the car. We did and paid for our stupidity. NO ONE ever forgets it. I'm 41 but can call up the exact image in my mind of that moment like it happened 5 minutes ago. I can see every detail in my mind, all focused around the end of that huge revolver. The hole pointing right at my head.

Set my ass on the path of law abiding citizen, I can tell you that. Otherwise, I was scared shitless and waiting to be shot at point blank range. Thankfully we were not THAT bad. No one ever forgets a gun to the face. I am surprised I did not shit my pants that night.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
199. I had it happen, large handgun at point blank also
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 05:18 PM
Mar 2013

--old crazy man on meds, steroids, etc--out of his mind, with nobody responsible monitoring him. Long story. But I went completely numb, couldn't talk, move, nuthin. Froze. Somebody else talked him down.

Anybody who says they could "do the right thing" whatever that may be --when staring down the barrel of any kind of gun has never been there. Sounds like the cop was a little out of control? Or did he have to do that to get control? Anyway seems it made an impression, just as my experience did.



 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
206. The cops were waiting for us.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 08:01 PM
Mar 2013

And they had every right to be worried. The guns drawn and in our faces was, I believe, the cops (all of them) way of scaring the living shit out of teenagers that new better.

Ya...nobody understands until they are staring down the barrel of a gun and can see the bullets inside, ready to kill at a moments notice. I was waiting to die.

Response to marions ghost (Reply #112)

sendero

(28,552 posts)
127. Its very possible..
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:22 PM
Mar 2013

... that most folks do not think clearly when someone is waving a gun in their face.

Fact is, this is 100% the kid's fault if it went down as she said, and no punishment, I mean NONE in this country, is enough for the shooter.

Unfortunately the way most laws are written the accomplice is just as culpable as the shooter. His life is over because he hooked up with a monster.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
161. Nobody outside this situation has
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 09:06 AM
Mar 2013

any business second guessing the mom. Until you are in exactly this situation, you cannot tell me how you would react. You can say anything you want about what you might do. But what you actually do in this situation, I hope you never find out.

Response to Mika (Reply #55)

rainy

(6,083 posts)
142. I read the ops link and there is no mention of a purse.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:26 PM
Mar 2013

How did you come to conclude she had a purse?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
197. She probably couldn't think what to do. She was accosted and threatened with a gun...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 05:16 PM
Mar 2013

being waved at her baby, saying "give me your money." I'm guessing she panicked and just answered his demand for money by stating the obvious, that she didn't have any. He didn't ask for the purse. That's my guess...that she panicked and couldn't think fast enough what to do.

love_katz

(2,562 posts)
6. Maybe they would've shot the baby anyway...
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:15 PM
Mar 2013

even if she did give them her purse.

We seem to be experiencing an outpouring of all the foul and horrible social/mental/spiritual pollution that flows below the surface of our society. A disgusting surfeit of efforts to selfishly benefit by committing violence against others... ...I don't know really. These kinds of events just leave me floored, angry, and despairing. Just gross.

Response to cali (Reply #11)

Response to cali (Reply #24)

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
52. Are you embarrassed yet? They have arrested two boys
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:07 PM
Mar 2013

for the shooting. I'd be embarrassed at jumping to the conclusions you jumped to.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
198. Maybe you should wait to see the evidence that law enforcement has on the guys
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 05:17 PM
Mar 2013

before you accuse the victim.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
48. Who said she didn't? Who said she even had a purse?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:02 PM
Mar 2013

Who carries a purse when they're pushing a baby around the neighborhood in a stroller?

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
56. Oh my god.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:09 PM
Mar 2013

Were you there? Have you ever had a gun pointed at you and had your child's life threatened? It's easy to judge what someone should have done or not done after the fact, but blaming the mother who lost her child to this heinous crime, and questioning her reaction to having a fucking gun pointed at her baby's head is beyond heartless. You weren't there. I thought DUers had more compassion than this.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
61. Where did I blame? Fer christs sake, i asked why she didn't just hand the purse over. n/t
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:12 PM
Mar 2013

Try rereading my post (while not jerking your knee).

patricia92243

(12,590 posts)
107. When I go for walks in my neighborhood - which is almost every day - I never, ever carry my purse.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:50 PM
Mar 2013

I have never seen a woman walking in the park with her purse. May be different with baby in stroller, but I doubt it. She probably had a diaper bag and probably a cell phone but not necessarily a purse with money.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
114. I'm sure a lot of people wondered that. I'm guessing she couldn't think fast enuf what to do.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:02 PM
Mar 2013

She just responded with the fact that she didn't have any $ and didn't think to give the purse. That's just a guess.

What kind of awful person could shoot a baby in the face. Awful. Evil person. So horrible. That poor little baby.

I'm wondering, though, why she was walking alone with a baby and a purse. A purse is a flag that there may be possessions in it that may be worth stealing. I guess it was a safe neighborhood, so she didn't think about it twice. But I don't think I'd go strolling with a purse in view. But I live in a largish city.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
131. It wasn't theirs.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:31 PM
Mar 2013

Why didn't the murderers back off when she said she had no money? In fact, why didn't they decide not to be robbers?

Killing a baby point blank: maximum sentences. Death, if it's available.

I don't know who this woman is, but if she is really poor then that puts a whole different attitude on material loss. A small loss of money or time (such as taking a day off from work to get a new driver's license) can be catastrophic. So, "it's just a purse" which sounds sensible to a middle class person sounds like a crass, out of touch remark to a really poor person.

Response to Mika (Reply #1)

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
132. "Gun nuts" think she should have a right to shoot back.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:32 PM
Mar 2013

Maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it, but denigrating those who disagree will not win any converts.

Response to Skip Intro (Original post)

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
9. This would be shocking in another country
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:16 PM
Mar 2013

but not in America where guns are very easily accessible.

You can thank the NRA and their right wing enablers.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
19. No....gun violence is not shocking in America.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:26 PM
Mar 2013

20 kids slaughtered by an AR-15 is not shocking.

It just isn't shocking. Really, it isn't.

This is America, the gun nut utopia and world laughingstock.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
25. If it wasn't shocking then why the outcry?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:31 PM
Mar 2013

Why the statewide moment of silence? Why the memorials and tearful candle light vigils?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but as a resident of Connecticut, it was very shocking.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
43. I suppose people have different reactions.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:00 PM
Mar 2013

My reaction to Newtown was anger and outrage, but not shock or surprise because I know what kind of country this is.

Columbine, Newtown, Aurora, Virginia Tech....the list goes on.....

It no longer shocks or surprises me.

Sorry. Everyone is free to have their own reaction.

Skip Intro

(19,768 posts)
38. Is it a gun problem, or a bad parenting problem?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:41 PM
Mar 2013

What puts those kids on the street ready to threaten and kill for money?

Where did they even get that from?

Where are the parents?

Where are the morals?

They're emulating what they've seen their "father figures" or other mentors do.

Hell, they might have been trained to do this.

Or it could have been a gang initiation.

How does taking guns from those who have them from self protection stop this?

What gun law could you possibly pass to prevent this?

Chicago's got some of the toughest gun laws in the country. And the gun violence rate there?

If the woman in this story had had a gun, her baby might still be alive.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
41. There may be some truth to this.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:48 PM
Mar 2013

A lot of kids like this, sadly end up going sour thanks to crappy home and/or school environments, particularly where physical and/or psychological abuse is involved; really, in many, many, cases, it's just a tragic case of garbage in, garbage out(and also notice, on the flip side, how free-range kids usually don't turn out like this, unlike what some right-wing talking heads would like to claim).

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
45. "If the woman in this story had had a gun, her baby might still be alive"
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:01 PM
Mar 2013

Republican gun nut talking points are spouted by Republican gun nuts.

Response to Skip Intro (Reply #95)

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
75. Why does it have to be either or?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:29 PM
Mar 2013

It could be a parenting problem compounded by the presence of a gun. Both situations are necessary and neither is sufficient, unless you think he could have done this with a knife.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
118. Duh duh duh --Bad parenting and bad society
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:08 PM
Mar 2013

Kid kills another kid with a gun. And you have to nerve to ask if there was "bad parenting'? What is this but bad parenting? Where did they get the gun?

I really am amazed that anyone could bring up the right wing talking points in the face of this.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
116. Right
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:04 PM
Mar 2013

I agree. People are just not shocked in America like they are in other countries. I have relatives in Australia (who have lived there 30 years and married to Australians).

They DO NOT understand this. Why Americans want to live under these conditions.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
122. Most people will forget about it tomorrow
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:15 PM
Mar 2013

because killing is so ordinary here. Nothing unusual.

The Newtown kids were babies too. But people don't care enough to enact effective gun controls, do they?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
125. Well, I'm shocked. So it's shocking. That is different from what to do about it.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:18 PM
Mar 2013

To some, gun controls aren't the answer. That doesn't mean they are not shocked by someone shooting a baby in the face.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
128. Not shocked enough to really care
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:22 PM
Mar 2013

to get off the "gun controls aren't the answer" knee jerk Bandwagon. What DOES it take? Maybe when we're all afraid to go anywhere without a gun?

NPR did a good segment today--comparing gun controls in New Jersey and Virginia. Check it out. Amazing the difference --and the correlation with fewer murders and suicides in New Jersey.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
153. Back to culture war again, eh? Can't let one opportunity to cast moral aspersion pass?
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:20 AM
Mar 2013

your ideology and righteous indignation seem to outweigh your sense of "caring;" you just have to blame.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
160. You're damn right I blame...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 08:42 AM
Mar 2013

Too many people drink the koolaid from the gun manufacturers & NRA, just like they drank the koolaid about the Iraq War. Of course there's a cultural connection.

Please read this article:
http://www.npr.org/2013/03/21/173815829/on-gun-ownership-and-policy-a-country-of-chasms

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
164. I blame the half-hearted manner in which our 49-year War On Poverty has been conducted
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 11:41 AM
Mar 2013

We've never really pushed for victory, and now have more people and a higher percentage living in poverty than there were in 1964 when President Johnson declared war and introduced legislation.

If we were doing it right we'd have a smaller dependency class, not a larger one.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
165. Yeah I agree but
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 11:43 AM
Mar 2013

I was talking about guns?

Yeah America is messed up in many ways...I don't know why people put up with it.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
166. Anyone could buy a rifle, shotgun, or handgun by mail-order with no questions asked in 1964.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 11:48 AM
Mar 2013

There were no background checks, no classes of people prohibited from possessing firearms, no system of licensing for gun dealers, a much higher percentage of households had guns than do today; yet violent crime was near an all-time low.



Violent crime today is actually on a long downward trend in spite of the vivid reporting of every shooting in the media.

By all means talk about guns, but frankly I think the real problem is something else.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
168. We are an anomaly among civilized nations
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:00 PM
Mar 2013

The United States is responsible for over 80% of all the gun deaths in the 23 richest countries combined.

So you want to live in a Banana Republic?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
167. Heard it live, which confirms what I said: Culture war...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 11:52 AM
Mar 2013

How very tolerant you are, once you've been given a self-righteous license.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
193. The fact that someone else thinks there's a solution different from yours makes
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:59 PM
Mar 2013

them "not caring" and you...the "caring" one. Hmmm. That's just a little bit arrogant about your own opinions of things, isn't it? Only your solutions are the right ones?

BTW...most people, according to the polls, want assault weapons banned, high count mags banned, and universal background checks. But things like this situation - I don't see how an evil, screwed up person who takes a woman and child by surprise can be stopped, if he wants to kill a helpless baby.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
10. did they have the 2nd press conference with updates yet ? based on CNN
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:16 PM
Mar 2013

report seems like the story isn't as the mother claims to be.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
141. I am in the corner with you. Something doesn't seem right about this situation. I may
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:04 PM
Mar 2013

be wrong, but I am not getting the right vibes about this.

kudzu22

(1,273 posts)
17. This one doesn't pass the smell test
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:20 PM
Mar 2013

I don't want to say what I'm thinking but something with this story doesn't smell right.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
117. I know what you mean, but in this case, they've arrested the guys, and I saw her on tv....
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:08 PM
Mar 2013

Unlike the lady who drowned her kids years ago and was "crying" on tv...I didn't buy that. She sounded fake to me. I said that at the time. The cops were on to her from the start.

But this lady....real tears, sobbing, gulping while trying to speak.

This is true.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
18. As I did yesterday, I'll just wait and see what develops here
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 04:23 PM
Mar 2013

before drawing any conclusions at all about this. I have no idea. I wasn't there. I don't have enough information to even try to know.

Maybe I'll hear what happened someday. Maybe not.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
72. Exactly as I guessed. Get the records of which sterling youth weren't in schools.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:23 PM
Mar 2013

They will go for the Death Penalty on this one

For the older one that actually shot a baby in the face.

If the younger one cooperates and was little more than a witness he may still be tried as a juvenile.

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
46. Not sure what does not smell right about this
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:01 PM
Mar 2013

Other than the fact that two young boys shot and killed this mother's baby and shot and tried to kill her.

And the person who said that if she had had a gun, this would not have happened is in dream land. The statistics do not prove this out.

All kinds of things are coming out in this thread except what happened. Two boys killed a baby. Appalling. And this and only this is what should be addressed here.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
126. There are NO extenuating circumstances here!
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:19 PM
Mar 2013

This thread alone indicates a lot about how Americans have been conditioned to accept gun violence.

This is insanity. Two boys killed a baby and there is any way to look at it other than barbaric?

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
129. Absoultely
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:27 PM
Mar 2013

what I have been trying to say on all the multiple threads on this story. Two boys killed a baby. Period. No ifs and or buts. Nothing smells bad except the killing. Barbaric covers it, barely.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
134. I haven't been in the multiple threads
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:44 PM
Mar 2013

but am really shocked to read through this one...

Even some of the right wingers showed up to defend the gun uber alles. I am amazed. Things are even worse than I thought. Has DU been hijacked by the NRA? This would be one thread where you'd think they'd be too ashamed to show up.

And then the people questioning the mother of the killed boy rather than the parents of the killers--the likely gun owners (we don't know yet, but likely). It does not matter what she did or didn't do correctly. Her child is dead.



timdog44

(1,388 posts)
135. It is just as ugly
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:47 PM
Mar 2013

on the other threads. "If the mother had a gun, this would not have happened" and that kind of BS.

"We want to see pictures of the kids". I want to see the pictures of the people to whom the guns are registered or suppose to be registered, or should be registered.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
137. That is my Number One question also--
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:54 PM
Mar 2013

"I want to see the pictures of the people to whom the guns are registered or suppose to be registered, or should be registered."

++++++

Prosecute the owners if children commit gun violence.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
99. The cynics should realize that the police have already arrested two teens.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:21 PM
Mar 2013

So clearly the police believed her story, whether these teens are guilty or not.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
101. So I wonder why the Police are still saying they are investigating all aspects of the story
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 07:24 PM
Mar 2013

No handgun was found
and the boys were arrested, based on attendance records

REP

(21,691 posts)
138. Diane Downs and Charles Stuart, too
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:55 PM
Mar 2013

Charles Stuart especially, who blamed a fictional black assailant for killing his pregnant wife and inflicting a gunshot wound to himself, when he in fact did both.

REP

(21,691 posts)
204. Also, the victim's other son was killed as he was trying to kill someone
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 06:34 PM
Mar 2013

Her 18 year old son was trying to kill another teen, but his victim managed to get the knife away and kill his attacker in self-defense. If nothing else, it is a sad coincidence that her infant son was killed by a teen the same age as her other soon, who was also violent.

REP

(21,691 posts)
74. Notice how they make sure to mention the race of the murdering pricks first?
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:27 PM
Mar 2013

It makes sense later on, when the description of the two unsubs is given, but not when describing the crime. Saying two children under the age of 16 is more relevant than their race.

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
79. I think public safety is served by releasing as much descriptive information as possible...
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 05:51 PM
Mar 2013

...especially when the suspects are still at large. Everyone needs to be looking out for them.

 

Zax2me

(2,515 posts)
147. Maybe it was a hate crime.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 10:51 PM
Mar 2013

You can say it isn't?
Then race is relevant.
Unless they also have a record of shooting a non-white baby, in a stroller, in the face, then I'd like to know what they were thinking.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
93. Does not compute. Sorry.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 06:15 PM
Mar 2013

Last edited Fri Mar 22, 2013, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

"He asked me for money and I said I didn't have it," she said. "When you have a baby, you spend all your money on babies. They're expensive. And he kept asking and I just said `I don't have it.' And he said, `Do you want me to kill your baby?' And I said, `No, don't kill my baby!'"
...

Then he fired at her head and the bullet grazed her left ear - she has a small scab and bruising there. He fired again and shot her in the left leg above the knee. "I didn't know I was hurt."the mother was the only witness to what happened.

"The boy proceeded to go around to the stroller and he shot my baby in the face," she said. "And then he just shoved me when I started screaming and he ran down London Street with the little boy.

... the mother was the only witness to what happened.... It's not the mother's first loss of a child to violence.

...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/antonio-santiago-west-dead-georgia-baby-killed_n_2931273.html

"

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
123. One thing: public street, plain view, several people heard the shots. If this were fake,
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:17 PM
Mar 2013

it would have been possible for someone to see that it's fake, so she wouldn't have done it in plain view like that.

Second: she had real tears. Those are hard to fake.

Re the first loss of a child to violence...I looked that up. He was an adult, at 18, and he got stabbed when he and some other guys tried to attack and rob another young man, who was able to get the knife from her son and stab him with it. The guy who was attacked was not charged.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
130. The police would have done a GSR test on the mother's hands, first thing.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:30 PM
Mar 2013

And had obviously immediately ruled her out as the shooter.


Do you people blaming the victim think that there is no physical evidence from the crime scene, and the police are only taking the mother at her word?

Really?

patricia92243

(12,590 posts)
133. Do you have a link, please. I would like to read all the article "not the mother's first loss of a
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:36 PM
Mar 2013

child to violence" is blood curdling. I would like to read the whole article

Thanks

timdog44

(1,388 posts)
121. I have been on every thread I can find on this.
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:14 PM
Mar 2013

I find it disgusting that the people here on DU are blaming the victim. Or saying if she had a gun it would not have happened. Everything that progressives stand for is coming unraveled. And like I said on another thread, I am ashamed and disgusted. I even served on a jury to some hateful thing said in regards to the victim's position and voted to hide it. 3-3. Again I am ashamed.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
202. Evil people do harm. Sometimes they can't be stopped. They have the element of surprise,
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 05:20 PM
Mar 2013

and they pick those who are vulnerable. Evil, awful people.

 

lib2DaBone

(8,124 posts)
124. Every thing is fine in our inner-city....
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:17 PM
Mar 2013

This is the result of giving Billions to Israel and Egypt.. and not a penny to America.

And BTW.. the more they give to foreign countries.. the more they claim Social Security is at fault.

REP

(21,691 posts)
139. Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were 10 when they murdered a 2 year old in Liverpool, UK
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 08:59 PM
Mar 2013

This is not an exclusively American, nor "inner city" problem.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
152. Things are different....
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 11:45 PM
Mar 2013

But it's like the old Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times".

MiddleFingerMom

(25,163 posts)
154. I don't know what happened here, but in the 80's, I was visiting my sister at Christmastime...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:37 AM
Mar 2013

.
.
.
... and the big New York news was about somebody threatening babies in strollers with
a knife unless the mothers gave up their purses.
.
New Yorkers. Almost to a person, they told him to go fuck himself... and he ran away.
.
If I encountered someone sick enough to threaten a baby... let alone MY baby... I would've
given up EVERYTHING and asked if there were anything else I could do. Sir.
.
.
.

Niceguy1

(2,467 posts)
156. and nothing is going
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 12:50 AM
Mar 2013

To change until we quit obsessing over inanimate objects and focus on the human side of violence in America. Feel goodlaws wont stop this.

appleannie1

(5,043 posts)
177. I can't believe the people here that are blaming the mother.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 02:12 PM
Mar 2013

She was a single mom with a baby who walked to the post office pushing her baby in a stroller. She probably did not have money to give the brats that accosted her. After all, she was shot first. Just what was she supposed to do? Wave a wand? Wiggle her nose? She is the living victim that will never be able to watch her baby grow to adulthood and people here are blaming her. It is disgusting.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
179. Maybe, for some, it's easier than believing America's youth are really this lost.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 02:16 PM
Mar 2013

This is a simply horrific story.

appleannie1

(5,043 posts)
181. With the love of guns and lack of humanity there is now in this country this horrorific
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 02:24 PM
Mar 2013

story will get more common unless something is done about it.

Keefer

(713 posts)
191. ...and your suggestions are...
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:54 PM
Mar 2013

what, exactly? I have a few suggestions, but I want to hear yours first.

octothorpe

(962 posts)
208. I don't think the majority of America's youth would murder a baby like this
Thu Mar 28, 2013, 12:48 PM
Mar 2013

I don't even think most low-life criminals would murder a baby like this. This is like crazy psychopath shit, isn't it?

 

slackmaster

(60,567 posts)
185. A few people made a knee-jerk association with the Susan Smith case
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 02:31 PM
Mar 2013

Template = White single mom kills her own kid(s) and blames it on two black guys.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
188. The Charles Stuart Case..
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 03:30 PM
Mar 2013

He killed his wife,unborn child and shot himself in the leg...and blamed it on 2 black guys

Yes...there is a template for shifting blame, but typically LE will look at mother,father,parent,husband first anyway..

Response to appleannie1 (Reply #177)

 

Zax2me

(2,515 posts)
189. I'd want the lying family members prosecuted as well.
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 04:27 PM
Mar 2013

If De'Marquise Elkins is convicted, each and every family member who has spoken to police and claimed he was with them at the time he was shooting a baby in the face - should be prosecuted.
If they got 10 years each I'd be happy - death for the shooter, life for his flunkie that was on scene.

family members say he wasn't anywhere near the scene.
"He was with us the whole time," said Freeman, adding that she gave police the same account of her nephew's whereabouts. "There is no doubt in my mind that he is innocent."
http://www.theitem.com/news/ap_news/ga-woman-says-she-s-certain-suspect-shot-her-baby/article_eb15fe08-379a-598a-9786-57b442fb227d.html


applegrove

(118,012 posts)
207. I saw the mother being interviewed. She said she wouldn't mind if the kids died for this
Sat Mar 23, 2013, 09:09 PM
Mar 2013

crime. They won't. America doesn't kill kids I hope. But I don't blame her for feeling that way. I hope the press leaves her alone from here on in.

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