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Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:16 AM Mar 2013

(GRAPHIC) Gabrielle Giffords' husband tries to free sea lion pup being attacked by dog (VIDEO)



From L.A. Now:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-dog-kills-sea-lion-20130325,0,350671.story

A dog that belongs to a relative of former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords attacked and killed a sea lion along the Laguna Beach shoreline, police said Monday.

A video of the violent encounter shows Giffords’ stepdaughter and husband trying to pull the canine from the limp mammal as the surf rolls in. A copy of the video was sent to The Times.

Laguna Beach police received a call at 2 p.m. Saturday and arrived to find that the 65-pound American bulldog mix had broken free from its 18-year-old owner and attacked a beached sea lion on a public beach near the exclusive Montage Laguna Beach, Capt. Jason Kravetz said in an email.

The video taken by a local resident shows Giffords’ stepdaughter struggling to free the sea lion. Giffords’ husband, Mark Kelly, appears later in the video, running down and pulling the dog off the sea lion, both police and a senior advisor to Giffords confirmed.


Awful situation.

PB
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(GRAPHIC) Gabrielle Giffords' husband tries to free sea lion pup being attacked by dog (VIDEO) (Original Post) Poll_Blind Mar 2013 OP
I don't understand why the people acted that way. ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #1
Dog should obey the owner. LisaL Mar 2013 #6
Exactly. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #9
And the owner can not handle it. LisaL Mar 2013 #20
I had a dog like that once... ReRe Mar 2013 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #30
Many marine mammals are protected. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #14
exactly. cats are an unnaturl addition veganlush Mar 2013 #26
Don't blame the dog. No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #2
It's normal for sea lion pups to hang out on the beach. Gormy Cuss Mar 2013 #3
She likely won't No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #4
Dog looks like a pitbull. LisaL Mar 2013 #8
It is a pit mix, not a bulldog. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #10
I never said it was a bulldog. LisaL Mar 2013 #13
The video description calls it an American Bulldog. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #16
Apparently pit bulls and american bulldgos look very much alike. LisaL Mar 2013 #18
They are pretty easy to distinguish. The American Bulldog has a face/jowls like a Boxer. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #22
To a lot of dumb people RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #32
American Bull Dog, an AKC breed DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #15
APBT's are not AKC recognized. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #17
If only that sea lion pup adieu Mar 2013 #5
I wonder if it being beached had anything to do with this. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #7
Finally, someone (Kelly) pulled their head out of their collective asses DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #11
What are you trying to say here? LisaL Mar 2013 #12
She had no business with that dog DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #19
Video shows her trying to pull him off. Obviously she didn't have enough physical strength to LisaL Mar 2013 #21
Can't really know what happened before the video started rolling AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #23
She is holding the dog by its neck pulling it one way, while another female is pulling on the seal LisaL Mar 2013 #24
Well, she refuses to put the dog's head into the surf. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #25
The LA news said the dog's wounds to the sea lion were superficial. MADem Mar 2013 #28
Well, if it wasn't a distressed animal before the dog got ahold of it, it sure the fuck was after.nt Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #31
I find that very hard to believe. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2013 #36
All I know is what the animal control-guy said, with absolute clarity, on the news. MADem Mar 2013 #40
A single shot to the dog's head, early in the attack, would have ended it nikto Mar 2013 #29
This would not be proper use RandiFan1290 Mar 2013 #33
That damn little gun... nikto Mar 2013 #39
That would be practically impossible to carry in Cali. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #35
All I could think was what if that baby seal was a kid. nt justiceischeap Mar 2013 #34
I couldn't help but think that too. Although it was disturbing enough as-filmed, when... Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #37
bad dog, worse owners riverwalker Mar 2013 #38

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
1. I don't understand why the people acted that way.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:37 AM
Mar 2013

Do they attack cats for killing birds?

Seems like they overreacted.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
9. Exactly.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:27 AM
Mar 2013

Again, I have nothing against Pits, but that particular one is problematic. How do you train that out of him, after an event like that? What will he decide is prey, next?

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
27. I had a dog like that once...
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:28 AM
Mar 2013

... a black lab. She was very protective of our kids. Sometimes other kids would sneak up on her and she bit a couple of them. Later, she mauled a toy dachshund who belonged to my best friend. She was just playing with the dog and didn't kill it, but the toy dachshund had to have 39 stitches. I had to make the decision then and there, and realized I could not control my black lab, no matter how innocent or justified she might have been to bite. I had my black lab put to sleep 30 minutes later. To say the least, I was not popular in my family for a couple days. If your dog is a biter and you can't control it, it's the only choice you have.

Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #9)

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
14. Many marine mammals are protected.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:33 AM
Mar 2013

So it was prudent to end the attack regardless, even though it appears to be a California sea lion, and probably just a finger-wag from the DFW.

Could have been a serious crime with another species though. And in general, dogs should obey humans. Part and parcel of the whole 'domesticated' thing. Any dog that will do that is highly suspect.


There are several studies that show housecats are damaging the ecosystem as well, by destroying enormous numbers of birds, so that's probably a bad comparison, and thread-worthy on its own.

No Vested Interest

(5,157 posts)
2. Don't blame the dog.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:43 AM
Mar 2013

It's his natural instinct.
It's not his owner's fault either, except that it got away from her, which can happen, especially when a dog is excited .
It's abnormal for a sea lion to be beached .
It's called survival of the fittest.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
3. It's normal for sea lion pups to hang out on the beach.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 01:51 AM
Mar 2013

Young sea lions on the beach are common this time of year. It's unfortunate that the owner couldn't control the dog. I hope that she doesn't take this dog onto a beach ever again.

No Vested Interest

(5,157 posts)
4. She likely won't
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:01 AM
Mar 2013

She sounded very upset.
The dog is probably too much for her - too strong.
Many people don't realize how large and strong the dog will become when deciding which type dog to adopt.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
8. Dog looks like a pitbull.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:27 AM
Mar 2013

I assume the blonde woman is the owner-she clearly couldn't handle this dog. Dog completley ignored her. This is not a good thing-to have a strong powerful dog that completely ignores its owner and attacks other living things.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
10. It is a pit mix, not a bulldog.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:30 AM
Mar 2013

Maybe has some bulldog in it, but predominately pit. Which will of course cloud the issue because of the breed's reputation, where in this case, it was the individual dog and the owner, not the breed.

Not like people bred pits to fight off the seal scourge from our beaches. Not exactly natural prey for that animal.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
22. They are pretty easy to distinguish. The American Bulldog has a face/jowls like a Boxer.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:44 AM
Mar 2013

A big, drooling, slobbering, disgusting Boxer. :/


(I kid, I kid)

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
7. I wonder if it being beached had anything to do with this.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:25 AM
Mar 2013
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-usa-sealions-california-idUSBRE92D00T20130314

In either case, unfortunately the dog should be destroyed. I have nothing against pit bulls, but that one can't be controlled. Sad, because it's not the dog's fault. It was the incompetent owner.

Owner is DAMNED lucky that was only a zalophus californianus. That could easily have been a protected species like a Harbor Seal. They pup pretty far south this time of year, and are a federally protected species. And there are plenty of other threatened/protected species about.

DollarBillHines

(1,922 posts)
11. Finally, someone (Kelly) pulled their head out of their collective asses
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:30 AM
Mar 2013

"Oh, my God!" just doesn't cut it.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
12. What are you trying to say here?
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:32 AM
Mar 2013

Dog clearly didn't obey his female owner. Presumably the male had enough physical force to pull the dog off.

DollarBillHines

(1,922 posts)
19. She had no business with that dog
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:41 AM
Mar 2013

She just stood around, screaming.

Some people shouldn't have animals.

That woman did not 'own' that dog, she was merely a 'keeper'.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
21. Video shows her trying to pull him off. Obviously she didn't have enough physical strength to
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:44 AM
Mar 2013

do it.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
23. Can't really know what happened before the video started rolling
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:49 AM
Mar 2013

but the claims 'from the family' in the huffpo article are ludicrous. The leash is intact, not broken. You can see it clearly.

As for the owner, it's possible she tried before the video started, but in the video she doesn't even attempt to pull the dog off, so the question of upper body strength seems moot.

In all likelihood, the dogs behavior frightened her too badly to even try. And frankly, that wouldn't be unreasonable. The dog clearly decided Kelly was an ok Alpha. Otherwise, he could have been in deep shit too. The dog was 'in a mood'.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
24. She is holding the dog by its neck pulling it one way, while another female is pulling on the seal
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:57 AM
Mar 2013

the other way in the video. So I am very confused by the claims that she doesn't even try. She appears to be trying but dog just ignores her.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
25. Well, she refuses to put the dog's head into the surf.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:04 AM
Mar 2013

That would probably work. The dog isn't going to drown himself hanging on, but whatever, she chose not to.

She seems to be mostly talking to the dog (I would call that 'not trying') not bringing any strength or leverage to bear. Seems to be just sort of hanging on to it. He's only about 70lbs. My wife would have picked his ass up by the scruff, just like Kelly did. Only have to lift the front half, and the owner in the video does not appear weak to me.

She's tugging on it I guess, but not bracing against the rocks, kneeling next to it, instead of getting her legs into it, etc. Highly ineffective.

Can't really reason with a dog in that state. People always seem to try though, anthropomorphizing the dog.

Edit: Risky to get down there and talk to the dog right in it's ear while it's doing the predator thing too. She's kinda lucky she didn't end up with the dog latched onto her face.

Edit 2: Not having any shoes on kinda put the owner behind the curve in dealing with this too, I think.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
28. The LA news said the dog's wounds to the sea lion were superficial.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:47 AM
Mar 2013

The sea lion was tagged by environmental/wildlife officials as a "distressed animal" that they were keeping an eye on because it was sick on the beach. It was the stress that did the animal in; not the injuries. That's what the news reports said, anyway....

Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
31. Well, if it wasn't a distressed animal before the dog got ahold of it, it sure the fuck was after.nt
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:08 AM
Mar 2013

PB

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
36. I find that very hard to believe.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:35 AM
Mar 2013

They were playing tug-o-war with the pup's head in the dog's mouth.

Not to mention the dog's first instinct prior to the "owner" getting involved was probably to shake the pup by the neck and kill the pup.

That's what dogs do. Unfortunately, I've seen it happen at the dog park to a small dog.

That girl had no business handling that dog.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
40. All I know is what the animal control-guy said, with absolute clarity, on the news.
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 02:39 PM
Mar 2013

And that is what was said--that the animal was sick already, it was on a "watch list" (I guess they don't interfere, they check 'em but let nature take its course), and the precise words that they used were that the "wounds" inflicted by the dog were "superficial" and were not the cause of death. The reporter said that the animal died from the stress.

Here:
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/bizarre&id=9042469&rss=rss-kfsn-article-9042469

...Officials say the sea lion had been tagged earlier in the day as a beached animal in distress.

"It was actually the stress of the attack that killed the sea lion and not the actual dog bites. The wounds from the teeth were only superficial in nature,"
said Jim Beres with Laguna Beach Animal Control.

Police say no crime was committed. A spokesman for Mark Kelly and his wife, former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, issued a statement calling it "a sad accident."
 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
29. A single shot to the dog's head, early in the attack, would have ended it
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:59 AM
Mar 2013

(Baretta Bobcat--shoots 22LR rounds)

People who take dogs with a natural killer instinct to the beach are pathetic.
PBs are not the same as other breeds, especially with the great number of lame-ass owners around
who have then for the wrong reasons.

Lethal dogs are like SUVs or assault weapons to some people.
A substitute for...?

The whole event was so unnecessary.

RandiFan1290

(6,206 posts)
33. This would not be proper use
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:30 AM
Mar 2013

of your precious little gun. It would get you into a lot of trouble. I hope you don't carry.

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
39. That damn little gun...
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 03:59 AM
Mar 2013
http://www.universalexports.net/Files/sounds/Beretta.mp3



Actually, the best solution of all would be to put a muzzle on the pooch...



Much better than that damn Beretta. I agree.





Actually, I kind of like the "Dr Lecter" look.


Or, for a more "all-American", Football-type look...





But the 1st Prize winna' is...


AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
35. That would be practically impossible to carry in Cali.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 10:11 AM
Mar 2013

You'd have to open carry it, unloaded. Concealed permits are like hen's teeth, and open carry requires it not be loaded.

Doesn't seem like the right solution to this particular case anyway. If it had latched onto a human child maybe. But then shooting it in the head runs the very real probability of shooting the child as well.

I wouldn't go up against a pit bull's skull with .22LR coming out of a 1.5 inch barrel if I could avoid it anyway. The dog might notice it. Then *I* would be in deep shit.

Edit: I disagree with your 'breed' comment as well. I know plenty of pits that are entirely controllable around strange wildlife. It has a lot to do with the dog's training early on, and background. (I would not take in a rescue pit, sadly, because the odds of it having been mistreated are too high)

Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
37. I couldn't help but think that too. Although it was disturbing enough as-filmed, when...
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:35 AM
Mar 2013

...I started thinking that that's what it would look like if a dog was attacking a baby or really small child...I dunno. Horrified, sick, scared. I couldn't get it out of my head for a while. Really scary.

PB

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
38. bad dog, worse owners
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:19 PM
Mar 2013

a dog should be trained to obey, a hunting dog has instincts too, but drops the bird immediately after retrieving it. He doesn't kill it, or chew on it and play with it.
That is one dangerous dog.

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