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truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 02:41 PM Mar 2013

Forbes Mag lets us know that some tin foil hat wearers are sometimes right!

While we seniors are being told that we need tow atch our Social Security payments get cut, while schools across the country pink slip teachers, janitors and otehr personnel, Dept of Homeland Security is spending money like a house afire. (Which is rather dangerous, as fire departments are cutting back ont heir personnel also.)

Now this past month, Forbes contributor Ralph Benko has written about some massive purchases of ammunition - over one billion rounds - that DHS is purchasing. Here is the link:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

About "this perplexing outré purchase of ammo, DHS now is showing off its acquisition of heavily armored personnel carriers, repatriated from the Iraqi and Afghani theaters of operation. As observed by “paramilblogger” Ken Jorgustin last September:


"The Department of Homeland Security is apparently taking delivery (apparently through the Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico VA, via the manufacturer – Navistar Defense LLC) of an undetermined number of the recently retrofitted 2,717 ‘Mine Resistant Protected’ MaxxPro MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of the United States.”

"These MRAP’s ARE BEING SEEN ON U.S. STREETS all across America by verified observers with photos, videos, and descriptions.”

"Regardless of the exact number of MRAP’s being delivered to DHS (and evidently some to POLICE via DHS, as has been observed), why would they need such over-the-top vehicles on U.S. streets to withstand IEDs, mine blasts, and 50 caliber hits to bullet-proof glass? In a war zone… yes, definitely. Let’s protect our men and women. On the streets of America… ?” "
#### End of quotes from article, see link for full scope of article

So here's the thing - a lot of work needs to be done to limit the spending of DHS. DHS was designed during that 'patriotic burst of fervor" seen immediately after Nine Eleven. Remember that fervor? It was the same fervor that tied us into a Six Trillion Dollar war (A new book recently released has the exact figures) and I imagine that at some point over the next five years we will find that DHS has spent a similar amount.

The wars that the Nine Eleven brand of patriotism have tied us to have destroyed the economy. And now there is a tremendous parade of evidence as to how pointless these wars were. But DHS is after the "real terrorists" - you and me. Don't think you could be classified as a terrorist? Well, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft wanted environmental groups and their members put on government watch lists.




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Forbes Mag lets us know that some tin foil hat wearers are sometimes right! (Original Post) truedelphi Mar 2013 OP
Damn, I already threw my tinfoil hat away Progressive dog Mar 2013 #1
Funny, this rates right up there with Progressive dog Mar 2013 #2
There are plenty of Alex Jones/Matt Drudge 'leftists' here geek tragedy Mar 2013 #6
Yeah, I've seen them too Progressive dog Mar 2013 #9
+1000 Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #22
Rightwing bullshit repeatedly debunked and then geek tragedy Mar 2013 #3
Snopes is to truth as truedelphi Mar 2013 #4
You're spreading rightwing shit from Alex Jones and Matt Drudge geek tragedy Mar 2013 #5
So they're buying training rounds for the next 106 years? ZOB Mar 2013 #13
1.6 billion purchased figure is a lie. From the Thinkprogress link: geek tragedy Mar 2013 #14
OK, so they only purchased 160,000,000 rounds... ZOB Mar 2013 #23
Not enough for ten years. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #24
Plus another important consideration of all of this is the fact that these truedelphi Mar 2013 #26
Actually, DHS practices with duty ammo. ZOB Mar 2013 #29
so dhs is now our homeland military? spanone Mar 2013 #7
No, this is a lie peddled by Matt Drudge and the gun nuts. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #8
Uh excuse me, but the people at Homeland Security get approximately Hundred Billion truedelphi Mar 2013 #15
How does that relate to the lie you just peddled about DHS geek tragedy Mar 2013 #16
I have not listened to Drudge for over six years - and truedelphi Mar 2013 #17
Well, you should stop posting his propaganda here. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #20
And what link am I gonna get from ABC - if you truedelphi Mar 2013 #18
You kind of eroded your point geek tragedy Mar 2013 #19
Tim McVeigh is dead,you do know that, don't you! truedelphi Mar 2013 #25
Apprehending child rapists is not a waste of geek tragedy Mar 2013 #28
Ralph Benko writes for Townhall and sufrommich Mar 2013 #10
jury split 3-3 Mosby Mar 2013 #11
Thats too bad but I'm not surprised. nt sufrommich Mar 2013 #12
Where's that damn UnRec button gone?! n/t GoneOffShore Mar 2013 #21
Marin County just purchased an MRAP from DHS DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #27
Are you kidding? Mill Valley? truedelphi Mar 2013 #31
Actually, the thing is garaged in San Rafael DollarBillHines Mar 2013 #33
And these things were developed for use in Iraq - truedelphi Mar 2013 #32
How well will an MRAP plow snow? Mopar151 Mar 2013 #30
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that the world's not out to get you. razorman Apr 2013 #34
But of course, I am sure that truedelphi Apr 2013 #35

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
1. Damn, I already threw my tinfoil hat away
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:56 PM
Mar 2013

Can you tell me what color our alert is and would my old duck tape and plastic be okay.
I just stopped looking at those videos and photos of black helicopters and now you got me all worked up again.

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
2. Funny, this rates right up there with
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:05 PM
Mar 2013

the $2 billion trip to India. What is this BS doing her? Coming direct to you from Drudge, Free Republic, various survivalists sites--but not yet echoed by Faux news.
But you are right, this is tin foil hat stuff.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
6. There are plenty of Alex Jones/Matt Drudge 'leftists' here
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:12 PM
Mar 2013

at DU.

They routinely peddle shit dreamed up by the Timothy McVeigh right.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
22. +1000
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:29 PM
Mar 2013

Last edited Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Quite a few Ron Paul cultists joined back in '08 and some are still here...

Someone even posted a Lew Rockwell piece (lalz) earlier today...

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. You're spreading rightwing shit from Alex Jones and Matt Drudge
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:11 PM
Mar 2013

and Sarah Palin.

Congratulations on the fine company you keep.

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/03/25/1771591/oops-fox-news-pedals-conspiracy-theory-it-already-debunked/

In its letter to lawmakers, the agency explained that it regularly purchases ammunition in bulk to save money and noted that “the 1.6 billion number was misleading because the language of DHS’s purchase said it would need ‘up to’ a certain amount.” That letter came a month after DHS offered a detailed justification of its purchase to Coburn in February, who later claimed that he was satisfied with the reply.

As Krauthammer explained to Fox News viewers on March 22, “Senator Coburn who isn’t exactly a liberal said number one the amount of ammunition is less than in previous years. Number two, it’s about a tenth of the ceiling that the DHS has allowed,” he said, adding, that the ammunition is “being used for the training of agents like the border security agents who have to go to the range a lot and stay sharp.”

 

ZOB

(151 posts)
13. So they're buying training rounds for the next 106 years?
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:35 PM
Mar 2013

I believe 15 million rounds per year is probably a pretty good estimate of what would be needed for training.

If they purchased 1.6 billion rounds for training purposes, they've just met their needs for 106 years. That seems a little excessive to me.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
14. 1.6 billion purchased figure is a lie. From the Thinkprogress link:
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:38 PM
Mar 2013
In its letter to lawmakers, the agency explained that it regularly purchases ammunition in bulk to save money and noted that “the 1.6 billion number was misleading because the language of DHS’s purchase said it would need ‘up to’ a certain amount.” That letter came a month after DHS offered a detailed justification of its purchase to Coburn in February, who later claimed that he was satisfied with the reply.

As Krauthammer explained to Fox News viewers on March 22, “Senator Coburn who isn’t exactly a liberal said number one the amount of ammunition is less than in previous years. Number two, it’s about a tenth of the ceiling that the DHS has allowed,” he said, adding, that the ammunition is “being used for the training of agents like the border security agents who have to go to the range a lot and stay sharp

 

ZOB

(151 posts)
23. OK, so they only purchased 160,000,000 rounds...
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:33 PM
Mar 2013

...still enough for over 10 years of "practice". Still seems a little extreme to me.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
24. Not enough for ten years.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:41 PM
Mar 2013

15 million only covers one facility, the FELC, that it runs for other agencies. It doesn't include all of its other training.

DHS has about 134,000 armed agents, and figures 1000 round per agent per year for training.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
26. Plus another important consideration of all of this is the fact that these
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:57 PM
Mar 2013

Are Hollow point bullets. Rather expensive grade of ammo to use for practice! Like saying you'd rather use mom's top of the line department store china for ammo practice rather than clay pigeons. Something is rotten in Denmark.

Barb Boxer (Sen from Calif "D&quot used to be on top of things like this - but guess she was transferred out of Military Affairs or whatever committee where she watch dogged stuff like this.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
8. No, this is a lie peddled by Matt Drudge and the gun nuts.
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:15 PM
Mar 2013
In its letter to lawmakers, the agency explained that it regularly purchases ammunition in bulk to save money and noted that “the 1.6 billion number was misleading because the language of DHS’s purchase said it would need ‘up to’ a certain amount.” That letter came a month after DHS offered a detailed justification of its purchase to Coburn in February, who later claimed that he was satisfied with the reply.

As Krauthammer explained to Fox News viewers on March 22, “Senator Coburn who isn’t exactly a liberal said number one the amount of ammunition is less than in previous years. Number two, it’s about a tenth of the ceiling that the DHS has allowed,” he said, adding, that the ammunition is “being used for the training of agents like the border security agents who have to go to the range a lot and stay sharp.”


http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/03/25/1771591/oops-fox-news-pedals-conspiracy-theory-it-already-debunked/

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
15. Uh excuse me, but the people at Homeland Security get approximately Hundred Billion
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:54 PM
Mar 2013

Dollars of our money every two years.

I was watching Nightline - an ABC TV program - the other night before my bedtime. According to that TV show (And it is not run by Drudge!) We have Homeland Security personnel over in the damn Phillipines, making sure that 16 year olds don't work as prostitutes. The Network was very proud to f the fact that this was happening.

Now however glorious a cause that may be for some philanthropic company or person to undertake - with my neighborhood having to watch as its schools are cut back, the fire department is cut back, and now Social Security is under attack, I really don't think we need to have an agency over in the Phillipines hassling bar owners about 16 year olds working in the night life trade. And how exactly does that relate to the war on terrorists?: Is DHS suggesting that these bar owners are terrorists by having young girls work in the sex trades? Maybe we should clean up our own military,w which has recently come under attack for the harassment, sexual abuse and outright rapes that occurring, such that over 20% of our enlisted military women report having been victims of the above!

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
16. How does that relate to the lie you just peddled about DHS
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:57 PM
Mar 2013

buying 1.6 billion rounds of ammo and 2700 tanks?

And, yes, I will have to ask for a link from a person who believe everything Matt Drudge tells him.


truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
17. I have not listened to Drudge for over six years - and
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:09 PM
Mar 2013

I only used to listen to him because he would make me so mad I didn't have to worry about falling asleep when driving home while tired from working a 48 hour hospice shift with little sleep over those long hours.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
19. You kind of eroded your point
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:12 PM
Mar 2013

when you peddled an outright falsehood peddled by the Timothy McVeigh right about the government.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
25. Tim McVeigh is dead,you do know that, don't you!
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:54 PM
Mar 2013

Oh wait a second - there I am-- spouting another fact I might have gleaned from the far right!

Well here is the damn link for the ABC TV Nightline TV show I mentioned:

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1302/130228washingtondc.htm


February 28, 2013
Washington, DC
TOP STORY: Work of HSI Manila profiled on ABC's NIGHTLINE

Did you know U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) has 74 offices in 48 foreign countries around the world? HSI attachés – part of HSI's Office of International Affairs – direct operations and coordinate with local host government and law enforcement counterparts to further HSI investigations.

Did you also know that under U.S. law, U.S. citizens can be apprehended and prosecuted for engaging in sexual acts with minors in foreign countries? HSI is one of the lead federal law enforcement agencies that identifies, investigates and arrests child predators and sexual offenders worldwide – a priority investigative area.

This week on ABC's NIGHTLINE, correspondent Alexander Marquardt joined HSI Special Agent (and Deputy Attaché) Eric McLoughlin, as the staff of HSI Manila partners with a non-governmental organization and law enforcement officials in the Philippines to track down and arrest a child predator. The predator just happens to be a U.S. citizen living in the Philippines who is facilitating sexual crimes against numerous minors.

You can watch the nearly 20-minute NIGHTLINE segment here, which aired Feb. 25.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
10. Ralph Benko writes for Townhall and
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:20 PM
Mar 2013

Is what we used to call "a card carrying member of the John Birch Society". This right wing woo crap doesn't belong on DU.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
31. Are you kidding? Mill Valley?
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:52 PM
Mar 2013

I have seen some pretty unhappy people waiting in a long line at a local Starbucks, but nothing that would require a MRAP!

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
32. And these things were developed for use in Iraq -
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:59 PM
Mar 2013

As a way to ensure that our service people wouldn't be injured by IED's to the extent that they had been being injured when the unshielded Hummers were the only vehicles they had. Now we have them deployed in Marin County?

Jeeez Louise, and apparently reading half the entries at my discussion here, I am a right wing Bircher for even thinking about the expense and the pointlessness of it all. Must remember to preface all remarks at DU with "Homeland Security Uber Alles", or risk being called a RW fanatic!

They cost at least one million bucks a piece!

Mopar151

(9,975 posts)
30. How well will an MRAP plow snow?
Tue Mar 26, 2013, 06:11 PM
Mar 2013

Anybody working on sander or sweeper conversions? How about a "stinger" wheel lift for police towing?

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