He's 19, this comes down on him squarely.

And sorry, but his parents raised him and his father set the example of lashing out at paparazzi.

Sean didn't say a word or lash out at the paparazzi once.

bothered him. You know I do feel their kids should be off limits. Of course he shouldn't of used bad language. That is what they look for as their money shot. That is sad.

Condoning or supporting attacking photographers is not cool nor liberal.


Check out http://www.photographyisnotacrime.com/ run by a DU member.

issue. Goodness, your making a mountain out of a mole hill to suggest a political issue. All am saying is that I wouldn't want someone I don't know taking pictures. His son isn't a actor and is entitled to privacy. That's all am saying. Maybe you would be fine with a stranger taking pictures without asking.

Doesn't matter if you are a public figure or not. Black letter law BTW.

It is a political issue in that cops, building owners, schools, and others actively try to stop pictures being taken of them, buildings, etc. The photographs are legal, the tactics being used are not. Illegal censorship and hiding of things is a conservative not liberal tactic.

Read through some of the stories on PINAC. You might want to reconsider your position that its not political at some level. Checkout http://www.carlosmiller.com

Unless young Penn is ignorant about Youtube, he's seen it before...

His father isn't above chasing and kicking paparazzi.

Young people largely act in the same ways they've seen their parents act. His father isn't blameless.

...harmful racist/sexist/heterosexist slurs to do so (and yes, physical violence as well). At this point I have no indication that Sean Penn has used slurs such as this in previous dealings with the paparazzi scum; as such I don't hold him accountable for his adult son's actions. If evidence proving me wrong comes out, then consider this statement retracted.

Physically assaulted while verbally abusing. A YouTube search isn't that hard to do...

So, if I read you correctly, you don't mind a 1%er physically or verbally abusing a paparazzi?

As for me, I'm pretty much dead set against ANYONE instigating physical contact in a confrontational way and Mr. Penn has been filmed numerous times doing so. Paparazzi are people trying to make a living just like anyone else. If Mr. Penn or his progeny don't like it, they can avoid any and all publicity, which we know they will NEVER do. Fuck them both. Young Mr. Penn is simply exhibiting behavior he's seen his dad exhibit before.

Lastly, if you watch the video of Young Mr. Penn's encounter with the paparazzi, HE physically assaulted the man with the camera WITHOUT being provoked. The situation caught on film and his seeming apology are as if they happened in two different worlds.

There are lots of famous people who handle paparazzi gracefully. Penn has not been one of them. That's the example he set for his kid.

Only because I haven't lived in their home, and haven't seen their day-to-day interaction. I'm not a parent but I think it's fair to argue the glimpses we see -- good or bad -- may not necessarily reflect the entire picture.

As for the paparazzi in general: Who gives a fuck. I doubt you will find many bleeding hearts for their cause and rightfully so.

Your OP implicates him in the use of hate speech. Why is his name attached to this if he himself did not do so?

And yes I am certain that this is on the front page of FR. He's a Liberal after all.

I have no knowledge of his son, or his politics, for all we know he is a Republican.

But unless Sean Penn, who has spent years in Haiti helping that country to recover from the disaster that destroyed it, actually used that language himself, his name should not be associated with it.

As for parents being responsible for what their adult children do, that is ridiculous. At what point is a 'child' responsible for their own actions?

All things being equal, a 19 years old possesses enough self-awareness to choose to either accept or deny all but the most subtle examples set before them.

I used the excuse of my father teaching me by example when I was that age, but I also realized it was just that-- an excuse, and that I and I alone constructed my actions, my words, and even the example I set for others.

If he was raised in Sean's house, Sean has to take some responsibility for it.

According to you and the other sanctimonious nags on this thread, any liberal parents who end up with a conservative child has to take responsibility for that too.

Unless it's an apple falling from tree kind of thing. If I've heard it once on DU, I've heard a dozen times...children are taught to hate.

"I'm sorry I said it,but they made me do it". If that was my son,I'd be mortified and would have stopped him right there and told him to apologize for using racist,homophobic language or apologized myself for raising an asshole for a son.

Following in his father's footsteps.

ranting at paparazzi, no one would have much of a moral objection.

Junior had to learn that somewhere.

surreptitiously record it.

in our society--he must have learned it at home.

Sociologists for several decades have been pointing this out.

he was angry at someone,my first response would be "what the fuck is wrong with you ?". I'm not accusing Penn of being a bad parent,his sons excuse for using those terms is pathetic. There's lots of nasty words you can call someone without using hate speech.Personally,I would be mortified as a parent by both his use of those words and his lame apology.

"Junior had to learn that somewhere..."

I imagine we all of us learn quite a few things from many, many people other than our fathers.


Unless of course, one has specific and relevant information that Sean Penn is in fact, homophobic himself; idle speculation is just that-- merely idle and speculative, holding no more validity than assigning the blame to his third grade teacher or the clerk at the nearby McDonald's...

My point is that Sean Penn taught his son to be a raging asshole. Once you unleash that sort of hatred in a child you can't control where it is aimed.

Sean Penn fined in 1985 for assault and battery of a papparazzi- threatened to break someone's back with a rock:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1892685_1892691_1892748,00.html

YouTube video of Sean Penn kicking a papparazzi:

doesn't necessarily make you either a saint or a good parent.

See also: Roman Polanski
See also: Alec Baldwin

We all have angels and demons. The point is that Sean Penn's demons are very public and well-documented. It is very plausible that his son picked up from Dad that it is OK to treat people with subhuman contempt when they have a camera in their hands. Penn Jr may have picked up the language at school, but the anger and the excuse to use violence are clearly all from his father.

shot at a helicopter on his wedding day to Madonna. I can see being annoyed, but shooting a shot gun at a helicopter? That's just crazy.

Sean has quite the rap sheet when it comes to violence and furious outbursts.

Not too surprised to hear his son is displaying the same type of behavior.

I don't know if he learned the "N" word from dad, but he certainly inherited the short fuse.

And racism is one of them.

People can pick up racism as a reaction against their parents, they can pick it up from their peer groups, etc. I know parents whose daughter basically joined a polygamist cult as an adult; they certainly didn't raise her to do that but she did. If someone raised in a normal family can develop such radical religious beliefs as this young woman did, I think they can develop racism as well.

Her mom was extremely embarrassed. I pointed out how often she uses it. Point taken - vocabulary modified

On the other hand she has a cousin who is a year older and acquired speech and other skills very quickly from being around her cousin. And is in an advanced program in school.

Kids learn from their parents and peers and they apply successful and unsuccessful skills in their learning.

Who knows what went on in the Penn household that would inspire this incident. It is true that Sean Penn behaved antagonistically toward the press in the past. How that affected his son is not known, but he did behave similarly.
Thus it may have had some influence, but we don't know.

As far as I'm concerned the 'insulted' paparazzi does far worse things than Sean's son's racist remark. Anyone defending the paparazzi who use anything to spread shit about the famous should become famous and see what it's all about.

with a camera.

sean penn and famous people like him are compensated adequately for their lack of privacy. if they didnt want to be famous they should have a different career.

just saying.

being able to go everywhere in the world and be treated as though you still own it is adequate compensation for some lack of privacy

the mom who was literally driven to her death by the paparatzi.

Being famous isn't something to be punished for by having paparazzi stalking you in every possible way.

No. I'm not kidding.

that's some screwed up priorities

None of those two things is to be commended or praised. But all I see here is people claiming the paparazzi are poor little victims of racism. That's fucked up.

but the whole group of people that the words represent.

jeez. so my sympathy for a spoilt asshole and so little for groups of people that have been severely oppressed by these words

I hope Sean took his son aside and straightened him out. Sean is a prime example of someone who has worked tirelessly for the Haitians after the earthquake. I assume he doesn't teach racism.

and how powerful entitled kids seem to think this behavior is perfectly appropriate and half-assed apology

But it's also about paparazzi who I don't see as victims when they stalk people. I think they're a scummy lot.

so why should the black one have to suffer more?

or the gay one? or all gays because he likely used faggot as an insult in general. as though being a faggot is the worst thing there is

I just don't see the paparazzi as victims. I didn't defend the kid. But everyone else seems to see fault only in the kid. I think there's plenty of fault to go around.

The only reason we even heard about this is that some paparazzi is using it to further their career. Maybe even the one who Sean's son insulted. He/she probably got paid for this.

And no one should be subjected to that no matter what their profession.

You just blamed the victim. Congratulations. I guess if the victim has a lot more money then you do, then who cares.

it really blows my mind

what exactly was the paparazzi doing that makes this kid the victim?

chose to use that language, but there are other things he could have said. If it were me, the "n" word or the "f" word (gay slur I mean) would never have been a consideration because I don't think those are nice things to say. The worst I might say is "fuck off". Why he felt that was ok, who knows. Could have been anyone in his family or friends. However would it surprise me if he learned from dad? No, but it could have been his bad choice in friends. All I know is if that were me, and my son spoke like that to them, I would have disciplined him on the spot, in front of everybody. I don't know what Sean did.

I know the press are a pain, but it doesn't give someone carte blanche to use slurs and hate speech.

It is an attack on an entire race of people.

But I'm not ever going to defend the paparazzi. They're invasive to the point of death sometimes. Some people may think that's OK because they stalk and pursue the privileged, but I don't. Stalking is stalking.

.

They're great at creating the story by being the catalysts of the stories yet somehow people give them a pass. It's the famous people losing their tempers or putting themselves out there or demanding attention. People eat it up and never give the paparazzi a second thought.

Being in front of the camera is the only thing that counts, because if you're behind it you're invisible. It's like cameras wander around on their own like busy little drones, unmanned, pursuing the famous.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

What an unfortunate name his parents have given him.

Yeah, celebrities and their weird choice in names

i mean, seriously.

i get REALLY angry at people sometimes, but when i yell at them i have never ever even in the greatest anger thought of using the n-word

fucking little shit

His neighbors. His friends. His associates. His family. His extended family. Books. The Internet. School. Work, and about a thousand other sources.

i am just actually shocked that he thinks that under any circumstances this was ok to say.

I prefer being shocked than being jaded, and just shrugging our way through the day as the world goes to hell around us.

who has done tireless work in New Orleans after Katrina and then started a foundation in Haiti to help after the earthquake. I wouldn't think a racist would do that sort of thing but as I said, I could be naive.

it doesn't seem logical based on some things he has done for people. I don't recall him ever using slurs in his encounters with the press, I just know he does get angry and sometimes has lashed out physically. He's a bit of a hot head for sure, and I don't know his heart but I've never noticed him using slurs. It's entirely possible Hopper learned this from other people. I do hope that Sean explained to him that it is not acceptable.

I find it intriguing that only bad behavior is attributed to dads.

men are oppressed. at no point did i imply it, infact i stated clearly in this thread that i dont necessarily think its his father

this could be the dad is because Sean has exhibited unacceptable behavior in the past - but however I've never heard about him using a slur. I don't know much about Robin, I mean she seems nice but of course I do not know the family. It's not always attributed to just the dads, many people in this thread have said "parents" too.

some of the guys at work call each other "black" or "joe" or "nigga" or "folks" and a bunch of other stuff, but they are mostly chicago latino and african american street guys, several with gang/prison histories.

i would catch bits and pieces of conversations:

"hey folks, what you on?"

"i'm fiddin to cut those bitch ass cards"

"nah, nigga, they need UV coat"

etc. etc.

it's street argot/slang to them, a language they spoke because of common background.

if i tried to interact with them on that level, i'd look like the biggest square on earth and it would be disrespectful because of my position and because i have authority/responsibility over/for them.

but i don't look down on them and they don't take as disrespectful among themselves because of shared culture.

Seemed to make the situation a bit more intolerable...

1- Paparazzi are rude troublemakers.
2- Penn's son is a jackass.

His father is a Liberal who has worked for the past several years in Haiti. He is well known, is wealthy and as far as I know, has used his position to do good in this world.

His son? I didn't even know he had a son. The son as far as I know, is not a well known, powerful figure. Attaching the name of a person who has, as far as I know, never been known to use hate speech, on the contrary, is something I would expect to see done to a Liberal Democrat like Sean Penn, on FR.

Ron Reagan, eg, does not support his father's policies or party. By the logic here, he should be connected to his father's terrible policies, and NOT to his own independent work and opinions.

So just how is Sean Penn, any more than Ronald Reagan, responsible for what his adult son does?

Kids don't always learn unacceptable behavior from their parents, of course. Him getting angry with the paparazzi is just like Sean, he may have inherited that short temper which is a genetic trait. However, am I to assume he learned the slurs from either of his parents? No, I can't assume that. I wouldn't be surprised really if dad has some influence there, but I kind of doubt it. I think what makes it interesting to people is that you would expect better of someone who's father helped out after Katrina and Haiti and also played a gay politician and seemed fairly supportive in Harvey Milk's freedom to be what he was. But I don't know his real heart either. Again though, he could have learned this from anyone, not just mom and/or dad.

The USA Today just sunk lower than the paparazzi who invade peoples private lives.

For those of you who indigent, welcome to the all about nothing trap.

Alllllllll rinsed away by the fact he's a liberal.

All is right with the world.

Glad you replied... I enjoy riling you.

to know your opinion of Liberals.

We mustn't offend the delicate sensibilities of the oh-so-polite paparazzi.

They are such wonderful examples of the very best humanity has to offer.

When applied to certain people.


Noted.

Assume stupid falsehoods much?

The story is the slur. You assailed the victim of the slur.

I said nothing even close. Welcome to gone. the next words I'll see from you will read, "You are ignoring this member." Have a nice life. Bye Bye.

everybody's sensibilities. It's not OK to use those words no matter who they are directed at.

... to provoke you is okay?

Whatever you say, pal.

But so what? Are racist,homophobic insults OK if they're being used against an unsavory person?

Funny thing that selective outrage, eh?

in your space you would be OK with calling him a n_____r or a f____t ? What does selective outrage mean in this case ? Am I supposed to agree that the situation called for racial,homophobic insults? Is there a list of situations in which it's OK to hurl n____r and f_____t at someone?

with the person holding the camera... and then tell me physical contact was unavoidable.

Had the lowlife paparazzi not initiated the entire incident by invading someone else life, it wouldn't have happened, period. Furthermore, this scumbag paparazzi is now cashing in on the conflict it caused. I don't believe in rewarding despicable behavior from a despicable person.

So, Sean Penn gets the free pass card?
Okay...
http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/06/09/harvard-researcher-says-children-learn-racism-quickly/gWuN1ZG3M40WihER2kAfdK/story.html
Children learn attitudes about race at home
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/19/doll.study.reactions/index.html?_s=PM:US
http://www.babble.com/toddler/racism-is-a-learned-behavior-in-children/

The little shit

anger issues his entire life that stem from being named Hopper.

Why not just say f'ing f? The N word wasn't necessary. Btw, I hate the f'ing papparazzis.

Things have sure changed since I was a young'un.

No judgment, just an observation.

I would venture a guess that the F word and the N word are used rather freely among them and the pals.

Two qualities I HATE in a person.

There's no excuse for his behavior.