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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn Norfolk, evidence of climate change is in the streets at high tide
NORFOLK At high tide on the small inlet next to Norfolks most prestigious art museum, the water lapped at the very top of the concrete sea wall that has held it back for 100 years. It seeped up through storm drains, puddled on the promenade and spread, half a foot deep, across the street, where a sign read, Road Closed.
The sun was shining, but all around the inlet people were bracing for more serious flooding. The Chrysler Museum of Art had just completed a $24 million renovation that emptied the basement, now accessible only by ladder, and lifted the heating and air-conditioning systems to the top floor. A local accounting firm stood behind a homemade barricade of stanchions and detachable flaps rigged to keep the water out. And the congregation of the Unitarian Church of Norfolk was looking to evacuate.
We dont like being the poster child for climate change, said the Rev. Jennifer Slade, who added that the building, with its carved-wood sanctuary and soaring flood-insurance rates, would soon be on the market for the first time in four decades. I dont know many churches that have to put the tide chart on their Web site so people know whether they can get to church.
On May 6, the Obama administration released the third National Climate Assessment, and President Obama proclaimed climate change no longer a theory; its effects, he said, are already here. This came as no surprise in Norfolk, where normal tides have risen 11 / 2 feet over the past century and the sea is rising faster than anywhere else on the East Coast.
more
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/in-norfolk-evidence-of-climate-change-is-in-the-streets-at-high-tide/2014/05/31/fe3ae860-e71f-11e3-8f90-73e071f3d637_story.html
daleanime
(17,796 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Most homes don't have basements because the water table starts at 5 feet. My father and I put a well in for watering the grass and we were able to install it by hand by beating a pipe down with sledge hammers to 30 feet.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)The streets would always flood even after a modest rain so as the effects of climate change increase, I can't imagine that Norfolk will be habitable in 20 years unless some effort of monumental proportions is undertaken.
CatWoman
(79,295 posts)and Olde Town is so much more prone to flooding now than in the past.
demigoddess
(6,640 posts)it worked for holland.
House of Roberts
(5,168 posts)jimlup
(7,968 posts)Will read the full article later - thanks!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)had contracted the Dutch government to come up with a plan to protect the Hampton roads area for a possible 1 foot height increase in the sea.
But then it was realized that they would need over a five foot protection so gave up that plan..
hatrack
(59,583 posts)They kind of, uh, shelved that idea for now.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)they need consider the cost of abandoning the area if they are truly thinking beyond 50 years. (Which is politically unlikely.)
janlyn
(735 posts)how long before a ban is put on climatologists and meteorologists from speaking to media about climate change as they have done in Canada?
Because everyone knows that if you quit talking about it it will go away!
progree
(10,901 posts)carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)after Katrina, whenever I've gone back to Norfolk I've been unable to avoid picturing it all submerged.
Recent flooding pictures here.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)Many parts of Florida go underwater frequently.
progree
(10,901 posts)A new law in North Carolina will ban the state from basing coastal policies on the latest scientific predictions of how much the sea level will rise, prompting environmentalists to accuse the state of disrespecting climate science.
The law has put the state in the spotlight for what critics have called nearsightedness and climate change denial, but its proponents said the state needed to put a moratorium on predictions of sea level rise until scientific techniques improve (or until we're up to our arses in alligators).
The law was drafted in response to an estimate by the state's Coastal Resources Commission (CRC) that the sea level will rise by 39 inches (1 meter, ya know, 1 yard and 3 inches) in the next century,
Democratic Gov. Bev Perdue had until Thursday to act on the bill known as House Bill 819, but she decided to let it become law by doing nothing.
More: http://abcnews.go.com/US/north-carolina-bans-latest-science-rising-sea-level/story?id=16913782
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)SwankyXomb
(2,030 posts)progree
(10,901 posts)KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)will be destroyed by totally foreseeable events.
Billion dollar sand castles.
dballance
(5,756 posts)How climate change won't be a factor in our 2014 elections is a shame, a disgusting lack of responsibility.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)MIAMI BEACH The sunny-day flooding was happening again. During high tide one recent afternoon, Eliseo Toussaint looked out the window of his Alton Road laundromat and watched bottle-green saltwater seep from the gutters, fill the street and block the entrance to his front door. This never used to happen, Mr. Toussaint said. Ive owned this place eight years, and now its all the time.
Down the block at an electronics store it is even worse. Jankel Aleman, a salesman, keeps plastic bags and rubber bands handy to wrap around his feet when he trudges from his car to the store through ever-rising waters.
Sea level rise is our reality in Miami Beach, said the citys mayor, Philip Levine. We are past the point of debating the existence of climate change and are now focusing on adapting to current and future threats. In the face of encroaching saltwater and sunny-day flooding like that on Alton Road, Mr. Levine has supported a $400 million spending project to make the citys drainage system more resilient in the face of rising tides.
And yet there are still high rise apartment/condo buildings going up in Miami. Guess the developers count on enough clueless retirees who deny climate change to buy them while the developers leave with their profits. At some time sooner than later - probably after the next super-hurricane, the property insurers will pull out and that housing market will collapse.
progree
(10,901 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 1, 2014, 11:10 PM - Edit history (2)
... With just three feet of sea-level rise, more than a third of southern Florida will vanish
... Even worse, South Florida sits above a vast and porous limestone plateau. "Imagine Swiss cheese, and you'll have a pretty good idea what the rock under southern Florida looks like," says Glenn Landers, a senior engineer at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. This means water moves around easily it seeps into yards at high tide, bubbles up on golf courses, flows through underground caverns, corrodes building foundations from below. "Conventional sea walls and barriers are not effective here,"
... Given how much Florida has to lose from climate change, the abdication of leadership by state and federal politicians is almost suicidal when it isn't downright comical. Watson recalls attending a meeting on natural-hazard-response planning in South Florida, funded by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the state: "I mentioned sea-level rise, and I was treated to a 15-minute lecture on Genesis by one of the commissioners. He said, [font color=brown]'God destroyed the Earth with water the first time, and he promised he wouldn't do it again. So all of you who are pushing fears about sea-level rise, go back and read the Bible.'[/font] "
More, much more (sigh): http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-city-of-miami-is-doomed-to-drown-20130620
bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)kmlisle
(276 posts)It happened on the Gulf Coast where some very expensive vacation homes disappeared when a hurricane storm surge passed over them and left only sand behind about 10 years ago. This is the fate waiting to happen to much of Florida ocean front from Cocoa Beach to Miami to Clearwater inthe next centrury. Sad but true.
Heard a talk last year by a geologist who works for NASA on Merritt Island where the space port is and he predicted that sometime in the next 50 to 100 years the barrier Islands there would be overrun in a big storm surge and disappear - that would be Cocoa Beach and the Cape.
For me personally it means the beaches I grew up on - playing with my family will be gone but it is a much larger disaster for folks with property on a barrier Island. My sister inlaw is grew up in Cocoa beach in a wonderful home between the Beach and the Inland waterway. It would not be practical to plan to leave it to her children. I live inland on a fairly high former sand dune, but millions live in the zone that will be inundated.
Of course if you take the long view South Florida as it is today is only 10 thousand years old. And going back a little further, 30 million years ago Florida was an island inhabited by Lemurs - until the comet hit Greenland and wiped them out - allowing for guess who to evolve to their present day state of glory and stupidity.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)but then the rich have never been known for being smart.
My brother just spent his life savings on a bead and breakfast across the street from a canal. I understand he has it heavily insured for flooding.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)buy land down here in Florida, I have 5 acres on the western side of Florida that is a little more inland than Miami!! LOL
valerief
(53,235 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)And the plutocrats who fund the deniers are making money off of all this.
In the next decade I predict that there will be multi-trillion dollar initiatives to 'save' Miami, DC, NYC
And the plutocrats will be right up front taking their cut.
valerief
(53,235 posts)mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)just at that location? Something ain't right...
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Some of that is caused by pulling too much fresh water out of the aquifer, some is natural. Climate change just piles on top.
Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)it has a "perfect storm" location in regards to global warming's impact.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/in-norfolk-evidence-of-climate-change-is-in-the-streets-at-high-tide/2014/05/31/fe3ae860-e71f-11e3-8f90-73e071f3d637_story.html
The problem is particularly urgent in Norfolk and the rest of Tidewater Virginia which the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has ranked second only to New Orleans in terms of population threatened by sea-level rise due to a fateful convergence of lousy luck. First, the seas are generally rising as the planet warms. Second, the Gulf Stream is circulating more slowly, causing more water to slosh toward the North Atlantic coast. In 2012, the U.S. Geological Survey declared a 600-mile stretch of coastline, from North Carolinas Cape Hatteras to Boston, a sea-level rise hotspot, with rates increasing at three to four times the global average.
Third, the land around Norfolk is sinking, a phenomenon called subsidence, due in part to continuing adjustments in the earths crust to the melting of glaciers from the last ice age. Plus, the city is slowly sinking into the crater of a meteor that slammed into the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay 35 million years ago.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Hekate
(90,645 posts)Glumly,
Hekate
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--put a big whammy on this area:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay_impact_crater
The Chesapeake Bay impact crater[1] was formed by a bolide that impacted the eastern shore of North America about 35 million years ago, in the late Eocene epoch. It is one of the best-preserved "wet-target" or marine impact craters, and the largest known impact crater in the U.S. Continued slumping of sediments over the rubble of the crater has helped shape the Chesapeake Bay.
Formation and Aftermath
During the warm, late Eocene, sea levels were high, and the Tidewater region of Virginia lay in the coastal shallows. The shore of eastern North America, about where Richmond, Virginia, is today, was covered with dense tropical rainforest, and the waters of the gently sloping continental shelf were rich with marine life that was depositing dense layers of lime from their microscopic shells.
Boundaries of the crater
The bolide impacted at a speed of many kilometers per second, punching a deep hole through the sediments and into the granite continental basement rock. The bolide itself was completely vaporized, with the basement rock being fractured to depths of 8 km (5.0 mi), and a peak ring being raised around it. The deep crater, 38 km (24 mi) across, is surrounded by a flat-floored terrace-like ring trough with an outer edge of collapsed blocks forming ring faults. The entire circular crater is about 85 km (53 mi) in diameter and 1.3 km (0.81 mi) deep, an area twice the size of Rhode Island, and nearly as deep as the Grand Canyon. Numerical modeling techniques by Collins, et al. indicate that the post-impact diameter was likely to have been 40 km (25 mi), rather than the observed 85 km (53 mi).[2]
The surrounding region suffered massive devastation. USGS scientist David Powars, one of the impact crater's discoverers, has described the immediate aftermath: "Within minutes, millions of tons of water, sediment, and shattered rock were cast high into the atmosphere for hundreds of miles along the East Coast." An enormous seismic tsunami engulfed the land and possibly even overtopped the Blue Ridge Mountains[citation needed]. The sedimentary walls of the crater progressively slumped in, widened the crater, and formed a layer of huge blocks on the floor of the ring-like trough. The slump blocks were then covered with the rubble or breccia. The entire bolide event, from initial impact to the termination of breccia deposition, lasted only a few hours or days. In the perspective of geological time, the 1.2 km (0.75 mi) breccia is an instantaneous deposit. The crater was then buried by additional sedimentary beds that have accumulated during the 35 million years following the impact.
Another article at:
http://www.virginiaplaces.org/geology/bolide.html
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)or potential flooding worse in urban areas is paving. Roads, sidewalks, parking lots, and all the many, many buildings on top of the ground. I remember reading some years back that Houston now experienced worse flooding whenever it rained because that land is very flat and a lot of it is now paved. The original un-paved, un-built on land, can absorb quite a bit more water which now, after all the build up, can only run off some where looking for a sewer or real land.
An aspect of the problem that's never talked about is that there are too many people, too much development everywhere. The sheer numbers of people lead to building in places that shouldn't be built on, or in places that are prone to various disasters such as fire, tornadoes, hurricanes, and so on. Add to that global warming which brings about rising water levels, more intense storms, and severe drought in various places and we have exactly what is going on these days.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Here's a detailed article about the flooding/ocean level rise in Norfolk:
(a few excerpts)
Flooding has become so common in this city, where water is the lifeblood, that residents talk about it in the supermarket. Home to the world's largest naval base, Norfolk sits on flat land much of it filled-in marsh that's now at sea level and sinking. Add to that the sea-level rise from global warming, and the city faces what it deems a $1 billion-plus problem.
Sea level has risen nearly 8 inches worldwide since 1880 but, unlike water in a bathtub, it doesn't rise evenly. In the past 100 years, it has climbed about a foot or more in some U.S. cities because of ocean currents and land subsidence 11 inches in New York and Boston, 12 in Charleston, 16 in Atlantic City, 18 in Norfolk and 25 in Galveston, Texas, according to a USA TODAY analysis of 2012 tide gauge data collected by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).
ww.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/17/sea-level-rise-swamps-norfolk-us-coasts/3893825/
If you read the whole article, you will see that many people are desperate, but don't feel they can leave - either because they are underwater with their mortgages (the value of their homes are less than what they owe on their mortgages), or that potential purchasers are (rightly) being warned off from buying in these frequently flooded areas, and/or "But this is where I raised my kids. I love my house. I love my neighbors." Etc. Basically, many people who live in these areas are unable to face the realities of global climate change, take their losses and get out of Dodge before the next hurricane's storm surge destroys their low-lying homes and they can no longer get any property insurance. I can understand that - the reality is so horrifying, difficult to comprehend and accept, and they don't see anyway out other than writing off their homes and way of life.
What may help turn the tide, figuratively, is the coming surge in flood insurance costs, says Leonard Berry, director of the Florida Center for Environmental Studies at Florida Atlantic University. He says higher premiums might do more than hurricanes to change people's attitudes about living by the water.
Congress passed a 2012 law that, in October, began phasing out subsidies for the debt-ridden federal flood insurance program. More than a million homeowners could see sticker shock.
"There will be a slow exodus" from the coasts as property values gradually sink, predicts oceanographer John Englander, author of High Tide on Main Street. By century's end, he says, sea-level rise could dramatically transform U.S. coastlines, pushing them inland by hundreds of feet.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)I think it has something to do with CLIMATE CHANGE and melting polar ice caps, just to name ONE thing! Huge chunks melting that can be seen if you research the issue. There's much, much more but maybe you could start there, Ya Think???
Forgive me is I misunderstand your question, I really hope you're talking "tongue in cheek."
DFW
(54,349 posts)Republicans and their propaganda arm, Fox Noise, will no doubt say the waters will recede as soon as the Republicans take over again. They will cite irrefutable evidence to back themselves up: God told Pat Robertson it was so.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Sunset Beach, California, where I spent much of my childhood. It is surround by the Pacific Ocean on one side and the Huntington Harbor on the other. During extreme high tides, sometimes referred to as "king tides", the water will cover the town and lap over the Pacific Coast Highway. Any increase in that threat can't be good for their future.
malaise
(268,930 posts)Marco Rubbio told me it's not real
heaven05
(18,124 posts)global warming? rising sea levels? Nah!! LW conspiracy.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)lovely area, or it was
Divernan
(15,480 posts)The way he told it, if you can pronounce Norfolk without blushing, you're not saying it right.
And the high school cheer: We don't smoke! We don't drink! Norfolk, Norfolk, Norfolk!
I do take Norfolk's problems seriously, witness my posts above, but can't read the name without recalling that cheer.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Maybe it's a linguistic quirk in the black community...
carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)Noffik is the best rendition I can give of how natives say it. Definitely no "nor" in there, and the second syllable does not have any recognizable u sound in it, (nor an o, and absolutely no l.)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)(I have relatives there)
"Nawfik" IS how they say it (with an "i"
virgdem
(2,124 posts)there goes Virginia Beach as well. I live about 10 miles from the ocean. I'm sure that by mid to late century, my house will be at or very near the beach. I always wanted to have beach front property!
deafskeptic
(463 posts)My parents owned a vacation apt in the Oceans building on the fourth floor. That building is right next to Caviler hotel. I wonder what the boardwalk must look like at high tide.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)At one point, before I ever moved there, I decided that I was going to buy a house and settle down.
A couple of bad hurricanes and flooding on the Peninsula really changed my outlook about settling down there.
So I sold the house and moved back home to Michigan.
Global Climate Change is a pain in the ass.
FSogol
(45,476 posts)seveneyes
(4,631 posts)How does that work? Localized sea level? I'm having trouble picturing a regional sea level. Gravity is relatively constant along the East coast. Perhaps the moon pulls harder in Norfolk? Maybe all the Navy ships raise the water level? Crab piss?
Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)which normally sends ocean water north and eastwards and is now sloshing toward the west which is where the eastern coast is located.
The ocean's circulation pattern is changing and not for the better.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/in-norfolk-evidence-of-climate-change-is-in-the-streets-at-high-tide/2014/05/31/fe3ae860-e71f-11e3-8f90-73e071f3d637_story.html
The problem is particularly urgent in Norfolk and the rest of Tidewater Virginia which the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has ranked second only to New Orleans in terms of population threatened by sea-level rise due to a fateful convergence of lousy luck. First, the seas are generally rising as the planet warms. Second, the Gulf Stream is circulating more slowly, causing more water to slosh toward the North Atlantic coast. In 2012, the U.S. Geological Survey declared a 600-mile stretch of coastline, from North Carolinas Cape Hatteras to Boston, a sea-level rise hotspot, with rates increasing at three to four times the global average.
Third, the land around Norfolk is sinking, a phenomenon called subsidence, due in part to continuing adjustments in the earths crust to the melting of glaciers from the last ice age. Plus, the city is slowly sinking into the crater of a meteor that slammed into the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay 35 million years ago.
Response to n2doc (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Botany
(70,490 posts)raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Without your donations to the corporate power structure, we might be forced to address this in reality. Luckily all that money will keep the deniers well fed and the propaganda flowing like wine.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)The high tide line is the boarder between public and private property. All coastal beaches in Texas are publicly owned. One of our few great laws. If Norfolk and Miami were in Texas all those buildings would no longer be privately owned and subject to tear down.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)Among many other evident reasons of course. Can't tell you how very frustrated I am when I try to tell people, some in my own family who just DON'T GET IT!! Referring to my family, most but not all are life long Democrats!!
Sickens me!
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Don't say anything, just let the see the water over the sidewalks and such.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)As the saying goes, YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!