But facts do not matter

...in the benighted state of Georgia.

Bill, if they can read at all. They heard that their gov signed it into law, probably watched the signing ceremony on TV, and that was enough for them, especially after the media circus.

They're perfectly willing to promulgate a faith-promoting rumor or six.
It's for a good cause, dontcha know?

I was responding to the post that said it was about guns everywhere that is not in effect yet. Quite a jump you made there. Death penalty will be too good for this asshole.

CCW holder? Law abiding citizen, if you will,

you should not be lecturing anyone on facts....

Is the law in effect yet? I was not lecturing anyone, I was just stating fact. Even when this law goes into effect next month guns will not be allowed everywhere right or wrong?

yes, "the law" is not in effect yet and this shit is already happening.

so I agree facts matter.

was able to end it with his own legally carried weapon. To bad for him he could not help his brother out before he was shot. I bet Bowman was not legal to own a weapon but time will tell. Criminals generally do not obey laws.

eom

Just blow me away.

And especially the family


Outside of the uniformed officer, who was openly carrying a firearm?

Meth is a hell of a drug.

Trying to arrest three beligerent drunks by himself was probably a mistake, especially given Georgia's "everyone's armed" policy.

RIP

There is no mystery, no question as to who committed this vile murder. There is no chance of executing an innocent man. Here we have a Black policeman (hero!) trying to arrest a drunk and disorderly. The drunks use racial slurs and shoot the Hero execution style in the back.

Cases like this, where there is literally zero doubt about guilt and where the crime is especially heinous, should be fast tracked for the DP. It should be a trial, one automatic appeal upon conviction, and once that appeal is exhausted, execution should be carried out within 30 days.

Someone like this, someone who is going to commit a hate crime and murder a Black policeman in cold blood, well, deserves to die -- quite frankly.

He's dangerous. He's ruined so many lives.

I am pro-DP, along with slightly more than half of my fellow Democrats. I don't support the DP in it's current state and would modify it, which we have already discussed. But the DP definitely has a place in our system.

You know it will be an embarrassment how long we did it.

Other progressive companies do some bone headed things; that doesn't mean we should automatically do them either. The ONLY flaw with the death penalty is that it requires the same burden of proof as a mere conviction. Seeing that the death penalty is irreversible once administered, I think the burden of proof should be raised to a new level that removes any chance of it being administered to an innocent.

A case like this one, where there is zero doubt about who executed this Black Policeman, which was also a hate crime, is an ideal candidate for the death penalty.

No reason except for revenge. Britan, France, Canada, etc.

How does society benefit by allowing this racist murderer to sit in prison for the next 50 years? Give him a trial, one automatic appeal, and then carry out the execution within 30 days. He taunted a black Policeman with racial slurs and then executed him! He deserves to die.

Being civilized!

And more civilized, too. The DP isn't inherently uncivilized. Executing innocents is wrong but executing vile racist murderers is acceptable. That's why I propose we modify the DP.

Loved the Tower of London days! Read about it on Wiki!

It's easier to ignore hard questions.

How does society benefit by allowing this racist murderer to sit in prison for the next 50 years?

more of less countries will continue to use the death penalty in 2020, 2030, 2050? Be honest.

It's about a permanent solution to a serious problem. The death penalty needs reform. But I think it could prove to be a serious deterrent if properly implemented. In it's current state, criminals know that even if they are sentenced to death, they'll likely never be executed and will have many years before they have to face the ultimate consequence.

If we can eliminate the chance of executing an innocent by raising the burden of proof, and once we've done that, if we can hasten the timeline so 20 years on death row becomes 3 months, I think the prospect of execution would be more of a deterrent.

To answer your question, if things continue the way they are going, fewer countries will use the death penalty. But in 50 years I think there will be so many global crises between climate and economics and overpopulation that the world will be unrecognizable. We may very will live in a world where executions are more common than they are today.

how many people are executed a year? Does the average person? No they do not.
People do not kill people assuming to get caught. Or worry about the DP before killing someone.

Civilized people do not kill people unless it is self defense.

3 months is a joke. Want a list of people released off death row after 3 months?

You have not really put much thought into this.

That's why it isn't a deterrent.

And you completely ignored my requirement for raising burden of proof. 3 months wouldn't be acceptable given our current system. The DP isn't acceptable at all given the current system.

3 months on death row would be just fine if we could guarantee guilt.

"well I would shoot that gang banger if I thought I would only get life in prison with no parole, but if it is the DP then I don't think I will"

Yea, that will happen.

If the thought was "if I shoot that policeman in front of this dash camera I'll be dead in a few months..." it may actually give some pause. That's a lot more powerful than "if I shoot this policeman I'll maybe sit on death row for 20 years or longer.."

they might be dead in 1 minute. You must not know the desperation of some of these people. You are thinking like an average citizen, not a criminal.

Done discussing this with you officer.

I prefer to be the Gentleman.

Hayyyyy

Just making the point that it's a common view.

Just one of these deaths should be enough to persuade any decent human being that this is the wrong policy. Just one. And there have been many. Our "justice" system is corrupt at times. Prosecutors are bought off. Stuff happens. And it tends to happen to poor people and non-white people disproportionately. And they pay the price. You'd better hope one of your friends or loved ones is never falsely accused in a death penalty case.

Just one of these jailings should be enough to persuade any decent human being that this is the wrong policy. Just one. And there have been many. Our "justice" system is corrupt at times. Prosecutors are bought off. Stuff happens. And it tends to happen to poor people and non-white people disproportionately. And they pay the price. You'd better hope one of your friends or loved ones is never falsely accused in a life in prison case.

paid compensation.

There is no going back from a death penalty, once you're dead, you're dead.

And I have no doubt if you took a poll from among those people that have been released and most likely those still in prison, I would wager none of them would be happier had they been wrongfully executed.

Can't believe this nations' gun stupidity.

repeat this, SHOT IN BACK.

gun cowards are sooooooooo tough!

according to the local news this morning. Five times in the back.

with a gun -- until he wasn't. More guns = more gun death and violence.

I didn't say "law abiding citizen," I said "good guy with a gun." See NRA talking points for explanation.

explanation...

I guess people are upset about the officers brother having a firearm is this what this story is about?

is committed. In fact, it is required by him to act.

Public Intoxication and being Drunk and Disorderly are two good reasons to arrest.

The officer was doing his duty.

It is the merger of corporations and the state.

Please cite the laws which creates a legal requirement that off-duty police officers try to arrest people for trivial crimes. It is my understand that no such requirement exists.

It has been adjudicated many times in this country when an off-duty police officer exercises his authority to arrest. The defense is that the officer was not on duty, or was hired as private security, therefore he does not have the force of law behind the arrest.

Neither argument is accepted.

Here's just one of many: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-6th-circuit/1339194.html , Swiecicki vs Delgado, which, coincidentally involves a D&D and PI arrest by an off-duty LEO working private security.

The argument made by the defense was that the officer was not entitled to make the arrest, that the free speech rights of the arrestee were violated, the officer used excessive force, etc.

They lost.



You characterize D&D and PI as 'trivial'. People get arrested for those violations every single day in this country.

And as for "the merger of corporations and the state", private businesses are allowed to protect their employees and patrons in this country.

Just like private citizens are allowed to do.

I said

"the local police force pays for shit and this guy was moonlighting to feed his seven kids", I'd say.

And a police officer who witnesses a crime, even off duty, has the authority (and probably, the duty...after all, part of being a sworn peace officer? Includes swearing an oath to uphold the laws) to arrest. And this is behaviour that would probably have resulted in the police being called to the location anyway. Disorderly conduct and public drunkenness are both arrestable offences in the state of Georgia.

This person who shot the officer should sit in jail for the rest of his life the DP should not be sought that too much of an easy out. Plus it cost millions more to put a person to death than incarcerate them for life...don't waste the money.

I can't even determine what is what in this story....really hard to follow the line of events.

Bowman shot off duty officer Griffin...

The part that involved Raymond Jordon is unclear...

Was Bowman open carrying??? I can't find that in the story.

Gungeoneer logic

More guns = more pretend undeaths