The people who attack Greenwald are employed by the government propaganda machine?

And Ta Nehisi Coates' article in the Atlantic was about white people paying reparations to black people.

[font color="white"]Damn. And it's always the first response in the thread. For some reason.

It would be naive to assume it wasn't at work at DU.

Just look for any anyone expressing skepticism of Greenwald or Snowden!

This thread is utterly fascinating to me.

are long.

Always attacking the messenger and trying hard not to talk about the message. And the poster is quite correct about propaganda. Who they are is anybody's guess. The biggest laugh I got today though was seeing someone trying to make the connection of these sock-puppet, contractor paid for managed profiles to those who are liberals but disillusioned with Obama not reeling in the surveillance state. They actually claimed the good liberals here were racist fakes. Nice try NSA. That's so over the top it showed themselves. Believe me if it actually were republican racists and not republican branded military contracted NSA supporters then I believe they wouldn't be focused on the topic of whether we should allow NSA to molest us with surveillance. Many people are afraid to even comment online against the NSA now and polls have shown Americans are biting their lips with regard to conversation in general due to fears of surveillance. Good job NSA. You and your paid contractors are turning our society into the sick, twisted failure exhibited in 1984. Do these people even read? It made it worse for everyone eventually...even government supporters.

Some people will believe anything and have no other motive. But whoever they are they definitely are against Snowden and GG by definition.

talking points, and they definitely do NOT continue to use lies that have been debunked, such as 'he represented skinheads, he's a racist' when it has been debunked so often only someone who is paid to use those talking points would do so.

If you don't like a public figure for good reason, it isn't hard to explain your reasons without using what become KNOWN talking points.

There are likely many different groups at work. Some are single issue, some are military, others are law enforcement. The Leo are interesting in extremist political types, drugs or child exploitation.

The military types are promoting humanitarian wars, social media coups, the empire and defense
projects. Protecting military projects like the NSA. The single issue peeps GMO or certain nation states. All are active at DU.

When persona management is done properly we won't know it's at work. Over time some patterns develop that may turn into suspicions, but done properly its never going to be obvious or provable.

Even MIRT won't be able to tell.

If you google HBGARY and persona management, youll understand the depth and power of these systems. The reason DU is targeted is it's got great page rank on google.

and wild conspiracy theories depend on the flatly absurd suggestion that governments and corporations do not spend millions, billions, to advertise, propagandize, and shape public opinion.

That the programs already exist is not in dispute. That the motivation to use them is strong is not debatable. Nor are the deep pockets of those whose interests they serve.

A primary goal of any group that seeks to impose major policy against the will and interests of the majority is to manage public opinion and public response so as to reduce the likelihood of pushback and revolt. Millions of us are being driven into poverty, and our Constitutional protections are being stripped. Of course great attention and money will be poured into managing public opinion and creating the illusion that the people support what is being done to them.

We already know these programs exist and are being used, not only within smaller political groups but also at the very highest levels of government, thanks to Sunstein's writings and the leaks by Snowden. They are a wholly predictable extension of the advertising and propaganda that already deluge our media and that are inherent in any major political struggle for power. Before we had the technology for interactive propaganda on the internet, we saw the cable news channels twisted into a steady diet of distractions, misrepresentations, and corporate talking points.

History shows that the tactics available to be used, will be used, in the struggle for political power and wealth. We have been carefully taught as Americans that it couldn't happen here; we are taught to associate these kinds of direct manipulations of citizens with totalitarian states, not ostensibly "representative" governments like our own. But we really aren't special, and what is happening in America right now is just one more example of the battles for power we have seen throughout history, by those who invariably claimed they were working in the best interests of the people.

Of course it exists, and of course it is here.


.

corporate propaganda machine here. We have GE, which is a defense contractor, among many other things, owns a network. They didn't buy it for the ad dollars, they bought it for leverage on the Hill.
It used to be the Soviet Union that tortured and spewed propaganda while we thought we wore the white hats. Now we attack other countries for their resources and so our MIC can get our tax dollars and "Propaganda" has become our middle name.
Here is yet another issue that can be rectified down the road if we all fight for Publicly Funded Elections and Complete Campaign Finance Reform. All 3 branches of government and our media are owned by the Plutocracy so that they always get their way at our expense. (Sorry for the overused phrase but here goes), We must fight to get our country back! We do not have Representative Democracy any longer because we do not write the big campaign checks (bribes)!
I hate to say this, but almost as many Democrats are bought off as Republicans. If something is not done very soon it will be too late!

Not that I would love someone just because FOX hates them though. I'm disappointed with Obama and it would be stupid to not be just because FOX hates him. But FOX does hate GG and Snowden as FAUX News has always hated the Truth.

The corruption of money in the system. Because you're right. It's the root of every single problem we face.

And the irony of the silence about it is that it's also the issue that could cross party lines and transform us into the 99 percent that could throw off these parasites.

Republicans are just as angry as we are about the state of the country, and just as disenfranchised. Their corporate-purchased candidates lie to them just as much as ours lie to us.

If we could unite across party lines on this single issue, it would go a long way toward returning control of this country to ordinary voters.

them from supporting Publicly Funded Elections. I guess they realize that without the big money RW donors, their party would always lose

Jeremy Scahill from 2009

He authored papers to infiltrate the web and mock and repress people who opposed the government. He labeled them all conspiracy theorists. One mans conspiracy theory is another mans truth. One mans babykilling rebel is another mans freedom fighter is what we used to say when criticizing Reagan's out of control contras.

seems to be the pattern from these people. Corporatists sell products. They don't represent the people.

You see it here, with Obama's choice of Rahm. You see it in the elections, when we are lectured to shut up and not rock the boat rather than demand what candidates stand for. You see it in Obama's comments on NSA, that Americans merely need to be made "comfortable" with spying. And you see it in his disgusting choice of Cass Sunstein, the author of online manipulation and smear campaigns directed against America's own citizens.

It's a twisted version of our system, in which lockstep obedience to the party and some corporate-manufactured illusion of democracy are more important than democracy itself. America won't survive it much longer.

conspiracy theorists, which found agreement from some DUers as soon as it was posted here?

....it also would not surprise me if the Obama Administration itself trolls this and other liberal message boards. They have every interest in trying to "control the message" being put out on the left side of the spectrum.

Dare I say he sounds like another happy graduate of the Karl Rove Charm School?

Interesting how the article accuses MoveOn of having become a mouthpiece for the administration. They are the group that co-ordinated the peace groups and antiwar marches marches. It certainly is true that the movement was gutted after Bush left office. Cindy Crawford vilified, Code Pink discredited, MoveOn silent...And the treatment of Occupy is not easily forgotten.

Rove tactics. Seems they actually admired that little weasel, apologies to weasels btw. I remember wondering if they were kidding at the time. That was around 2005 or so. They became 'prominent' and I use this word lightly, 'liberal' bloggers so I guess their ideas were acceptable to some in the Dem Party. I thought we were working to stamp out that kind of bullying, despicable attack mode politics but I was wrong. I've been wrong about a lot of things, I am finding out.

the accusations of talking points. So much drama! It is exactly like what Rove and Ari and Rummy used to pull daily in the Bush years.

I guess they need to get value for whatever they paid to come up with 'let's imitate Rove, he is so successful'.

...and no surprise at all that Rahmey Baby is helping in the effort.

We don't need the Obama Administration's FUCKING help. We need them to listen to US.

That is another Big Lie. Center for American Progress is the think tank Podesta started. He is a Clintonite, not a liberal. MoveOn started to defend Clinton (though I believe it has "moved on" from that original purpose, I think it is still establishment.)

Dubbing the center right, or New Democrats, as "liberal," facilitates pretending that traditional Democrats are a fringe group and liberals are practically bomb throwers.

I hate Big Lies and the lying liars who tell them.

On the specific subject of message control, though, I agree. The Obama administration has done a lot of it. Not the first administration to do so, though.

and yet in post after post support the corporate agenda. Personally I dont think they are on the corporate payroll, I think they are merely afraid of fighting for our freedoms and liberties. They are comfortable with the status quo and will fight tooth and nail to keep it.

We are well into a bitter class war. We are out-monied and losing. The poverty rate and unemployment rates are killing the middle and lower classes, in some cases, literally.

We need the help of all the 99% and wonder why any would bow down to the oligarch overlords.

on this, I am damned well going to assume they are either a paid troll, or an unpaid idiot.

But before I call them "idiots" i want to make the case that they are sad authoritarians, which, I point out, doesnt excuse them. They, as many Americans, were raised to trust authority to a fault. When children it's necessary, but young adults should be taught to be skeptical of authority. That of course is harder than telling them to obey blindly, their parents, teachers, uncles, priests, etc.

By-the-way, you can get away with calling someone an asshole here, but will get the big hide if you call someone an authoritarian.

These idiots, as you call them, are in my books, frightened authoritarian followers.

Sorry, I got a bit random.

They might be very bright, and a good progressive in many other regards; I stand corrected.

It has gone way past just embarrassing.
I believe some are in it just for the Two Minutes of HATE,
because that is their nature. They certainly aren't competent or literate enough to get paid for their "work".

but as long as we all channeled our hostility and rage properly, the machine hummed smoothly. Now, some of us refuse to check our principles at the door and stop fighting for things we have always believed were important. In fact we are dumbfounded that this is the price we must pay to prove ourselves worthy. This is the crux of the problem. We are seen by the ultra partisans as saboteurs rather than freedom fighters. I don't know how this attitude can be corrected. When criticism implies treason and legitimate objections are labeled obstructionist, denounced as the arguments of the enemy, I feel as if I have entered Orwell territory for sure.

They are embarrassed Republicans. I know them well. They are the kind that voted for Reagan the 1st & 2nd time, if they weren't old enough to vote in that election they voted for Bush Sr. After that they voted for Bush II the first time and really got embarrassed. They will never admit they voted for Bush II, but they did. When they became so embarrassed that they were such "marks" they voted for Obama the 2nd time....not the first time, but the second time.

They are nothing but shills, whether paid or not....

They have not one original thought or principle among the lot of them. NOT ONE FUCKING PRINCIPLE OR ORIGINAL THOUGHT.

I've never seen so many zeros in my life.

add to DU. Trolls that claim to love Obama get a pass.

If the shoe fits..................wear the fucking shoe and quit being such a pansy about it. Own it! Love it! It's your shoe

this all works into one sentence.

A one sentence synopsis is simply not possible for anyone who actually read the OP, so I am assuming you didn't get around to reading it yet.

to spend so much time here, have posting numbers in the 10,000s,
ready and able to shit upon the US Constitution at a seconds notice
spewing worthless "copy and paste" word salad from their vast
supply of horse shit?

Of course, being piss fucking ignorant, could factor in.