Because they turn us against each other while the enemy without laughs their ass off.

Or call us "fucking retards".

I guess you haven't seen this thread yet?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025036592

Seems to me that the "smearing" and the "purity" test is coming from your side, not the other side.

You know the side that wants to make sure we get rid of the republicans and tea party clowns so they don't destroy this country? The side that wants to see things change for the better, not take us back to the past. That's the side I am on, what about you?

We have far, far too many of them already.

The only way that is going to happen is if we find such progressive Democrats and get them to run in the primaries. The primaries would be the place to get this accomplished. Name calling, no matter who is doing it, on DU will not help get more progressives in office.

... expose and weed out the conservatives who are infiltrating our party at the behest of monied interests. Denying they exist, or even tolerating their presence, results in the Democratic Party being weakened in policy, which of course weakens support.

If we allow the conservatives to complete their takeover of the Democratic Party, most Americans will lose the only voice they have.

Which ones do you think are rally conservatives who have infiltrated the party?

The DEMOCRATIC candidate for Governor in Wisconsin, Mary Burke. Mary's famous for supporting charter schools, voting against the teacher's union and, as President of Trek Bicycle, outsourcing Wisconsin jobs to China. She describes herself as a "fiscal conservative" and has praised Scott Walker's union busting budget.


http://bloggingblue.com/2014/05/mary-burke-im-a-fiscal-conservative/

Enough with the attempts at short cuts. There's only one answer. Convince the voters. Which won't happen by acting superior to them.

Winning elections is a great thing, but it's greater to win for real and get good progressives in the office instead of "Blue Dog Democrats"...so watch your local Primary, which should be very soon. And inform, then VOTE.

instead of by people's memories of the 60's.

Boehner and Hatch are on the middle right, compared to their far right and Libertarian right pals.

There is no evidence to show that "we the people" is as progressive as "we on DU."

... but when polled on policy, they are far to the left of stances he's taken.

is far to the left of Obama on policy?

The posters you and I argue with dodge one simple reality - the voters choose. They want some other way around that. They don't want to have to convince the voters, they want the leaders to force the voters (or have some magic power over them). That is the bottom line.

a consistant and fully alternative vision.

The Democratic party is different, but it likes to express those differences as "tweaks" to the general right/center model. That is really what is dis-impowering the party.

We should be winning all over the place by default, because the Republicans have embarrassed themselves and their ideology all over the place. But it is almost as if the party is afraid to go all out on a consistent populist traditional democratic vision. But that is **exactly** what is needed.

Yet President Obama put chained CPI on the table.

Check polls on drone use.

Check polls on spying on our citizens.

Check polls on Wall Street, and compare the results with Jamie Dimons history of White House lunches.

here in NY Andrew Cuomo just barely held onto be the liberal working families party candidate because in many respects he has governed too far to the right. He promised this group to try and be more progressive if the party helps him by defeating more republicans in the NY congress.

Hard to argue with that and it's a great idea BUT Governor Cuomo helped make that more difficult because he allowed a controversial totally gerrymandered in favor of the Republicans redistricting plan slide. Not only did that hinder getting State Democrats elected but national ones as well.

He promised he'd challenge it and had the authority under the state constitution but instead he let it go through without more than a token whimper.

IMHO he doesn't deserve his own last name let alone the D behind it. I loved and admired his Dad as governor. Not a fan of the son.

That being said I will still vote for him over any Puke but if the candidates truly want to get the base energized again there actually going to at least have to show they are willing to work and stand up for some progressive goals and do better than "the other guy sucks worse so your stuck with me."

Parties of the centre-right generally support liberal democracy, capitalism, the market economy (though they may accept government regulation to control monopolies), private property rights, and a limited welfare state (for example government provision of education and medical care). They support conservatism and economic liberalism, and oppose socialism and communism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

"Conservatism as a political and social philosophy promotes retaining traditional social institutions. A person who follows the philosophies of conservatism is referred to as a traditionalist or conservative. Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The center-right in the US doesn't support economic liberalism.

Go Nancy!!

But it's very likely that you'd have to actually be a Democrat to feel that way

Two conservative "Democrats" in the State Senate joined the Republicans and trashed funding for education and transportation. One changed from Repub to Dem in 2005, and was welcomed with open arms by the state party higher-ups, who joined in opposing a real Democrat in the primary.

If a candidate does not stand for Democratic values, I don't give a flying fuck what letter they have after their name.

Which I am happy to support.

A hearty R&

Last edited Mon Jun 2, 2014, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

to defeat Republicans and bash the shit out of them

.

GOTV 2014!

One of the most vile of the vile persons on TV.

It's really difficult for me to think she actually believes the vile spew she says. I'm much more of the opinion that she's saying ridiculous stuff even she doesn't believe and then laughing all the way to the bank.

And plays the media like a fiddle. So outrageous but maybe there really are a lot of stupid people that believe her. That's hard to accept though.

What about the select few Democrats that have sabotaged us or betrayed our causes for personal gain or ascensions to higher power? Who's worse...the cop or the narc?

however she and other fall into the "every other right-wing nutjob blowhard "

She does fall into the category of every other blowhard. However, I think she has worked her way to the top of the list so effectively she needs to be called out by name.

Ann, Colter, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, anyone employed at fox are all the same. They are cynical people who do not believe anything they say. The use this cynical ploy to keep the limited information crowd worked up.

not shrivel up into a ball and die.

drawn and quartered in the town square (metaphorically speaking) .. well maybe not.

I would exclude him from this list

I met him through another gay news anchor at the local FAUX affiliate. That anchor was dating a good friend of mine.

Mister Smith was, in person, rather shy and reserved. Not at all what one would have expected. Very unlike Rick Shanchez, who, IMHO, is the exact sort of dick one would expect from someone who is on TV. I used to join him along with my friend, his partner
and the other anchors at a local bar for drinks after the news late at night. He always had an air of superiority about him. Shanchez never spoke directly to me - as if it was beneath him to do so. I quickly became UN-enthralled with TV personalities.

Shanchez worked for the local FAUX affiliate. I worked, as an IT nerd, at the local ABC affiliate WPLG.

The first 3/4 of you post I agree with.

So why the hell bash people who agree with that, but also have legitimate concerns about the performance of Obama and Democrats, but who -- when push comes to shove -- support them over the GOP?

And whether or not one gripes on a message board is not a measurement of what they do or don't do in the rest of their lives. Some people who you say are trying to "divide" Democrats are true-blue party loyalists, but who also feel it has strayed off course in various ways..... Some work in the poliical system as you say and/or donate to Democrats (including Obma)..... Others support the ideals they profess in ways that are not within the partisan context........And yes some are "armchair warriors" and there are scattered trolls.

But painting everyone with such a broad and shallow brush undermines the spirit of "unity" that you are claiming to want to inspire.

For what it's worth I have no problem with people posting their legitimate concerns on DU or any other site.
I do have a problem with name calling and blame and accusations of being paid provocateurs.
I also have a problem with people who think posting here is more important in the scheme of things than it really is.

You think it's shallow? Maybe so. No more or less than 90% of what is posted regularly on this site.

if your desire is to see more people turn out and pound pavement and generally get enthusiastic about supporting Democrats to beat back the GOP/Right, then why gratuitously undermine that by adding to the divisiveness you claim to be opposed to?

It adds to that when you add the little bit about people thinking posting here is more important than action? This is a freaking discussion board. People come here to discuss, debate....and yes vent. And sometimes peope go overboard and become needlessly personal in their arguements.

Obviously, you too are welcome to vent against people who post here who are not 100 percent supportive of President Obama and the Modern Democratic Party.

But I'm just sayin' it accomplishes the same divisiveness as those you complain are being divisive and undermine the sense of common purpose against the RW/GOP here.

I don't think you can find a post where I've vented against anyone who is not 100% supportive.
I'm not 100% supportive. However, I do think of myself as a Pragmatic Progressive.

But those last swipes negated that. I often vent here about President Obama and what I see as the failure of the Democratic Party to support the things I believe in -- which are nothing more than the principles that liberals generally believed and actively supported when I was a young pup.

So I winced and felt a bad taste in my mouth when you took an unnecessary swipe at those like myself who vent about that here, as well as venting against the GOP and the right-wing.

And therefore, it was one more chink in the wall against unity on our side....A personal, tiny sub-microscopic chink, but a chink nonetheless. And they add up.

I don't expect to agree with everyone here on everything. But it is frustrating to see all of us (yes, me at times) failing to acknowledge the distinction between disagreements on issues and policies, and making those differences cause for personal animosity and factionalism.

Is this the part you don't like? "My heroes do not seek to divide Democrats"

I can't see how that would bother anyone, unless they think they fall into that group. I don't see any accusations about who those people might be, but a general statement, which I agree with, that dividing democrats is not a good thing, no matter who you are.

I totally agree with everything that was posted in the OP.

Thanks.

He was a loyal true blue Democrat. He worked hard to help them win.

But he also disagreed with the Democratic Establishment and President Clinton on a number of things. And he was not shy abut expressing those disagreements, or occasionally filing bills that contradicted the "centrist" party line or called something the administration was doing to task.

But here on DU, too often people who have a similar attitude are blamed for "dividing" Democrats or not being loyal. I am not talking about actual trolls, but the people who support Democrats, want to enthusiastically support Democrats -- but get frustrated and angry when Democrats do things that seem more like satisfying the Corporate/Wall St. Agenda or fail to stand up and offer a clear alternatives to GOP policies and actions.

I agree that someone can "occasionally" disagree with things the president does, but for many here it seems to be a "daily" thing to bash the president, and those are the ones who I would question their motives.

I would disagree that so many get "accused" of dividing simply because they may disagree. It usually has more to do with the way they disagree and the fact that many of them are always posting negative remarks about the president, and those here on DU that support him. I would love to see more who disagree actually offer clear alternatives, but that seldom happens. I hear a lot of posters who disagree with the president say they want to discuss the issues, yet seldom do I see threads for such discussions coming from those that complain the most. Way to often it simply becomes name calling with no discussion at all.

Critique and praise with substance, please.

Thanks.

anything bad to say about anyone on that list in the OP

but seethe about how awful Obama or his swampy BOGgers are.

Plain as Nose On Face.

Oh they hate the Barack Obama Group on DU. Cannot handle a group where they can't go in and cheap pot shot the President.

Wetlands Gardens & Bog Gardens


"Are you unfortunate enough to have part of your property on a bog or marsh or to have a swampy ditch or large area of standing water? If your answer is yes, then your biggest landscaping challenge is going to be to change your perspective. Bogs, marshes, and swamps are all vibrant ecosystems that serve an essential environmental function, and you have become a custodian one of these treassures.

Besides being home and breeding grounds to many species of birds, fish, insects, mammals, and rare plants - bogs, marshes, and swamps are one of nature's primary water filters, removing pollutants and excess nutrients, and controling errosion. The quality of many lakes and some streams is heavily influenced by the quality of the bogs and swamps that feed them"

Delightful BOG

Whisp

so beautiful Cha! That picture is awesome!

Cranberries are the best, aren't they, she? Yumm!



Homemade Fresh Cranberry Juice

To the BOG.. cranberries and all

I love cranberries and the best natural homemade sauce on Thanksgiving.

Cranberries ground in a food processor. Fresh orange with skin and a small amount of sugar. Delightful!

Thanks Cha! Bog!

at Thanksgiving and Christmas time, she?

The rest have been nasty.

Thanks Cha! The cranberries are fabulous and so is the BOG.

that, she

Yum! I love that last picture, freshwest.

Morning!

. . . important points, well-stated, Nancy.

We've got folks complaining about schisms between DUers while they work furiously to divide the community into neat little ideological groups.

You nailed it..

It is something that seems to go with the territory.. the need to isolate people into groups ..

Pat Robertson
Ralph Reed
James Dobson
Tony Perkins
Phyllis Schlafly
Randall Terry
Franklin Graham

and so on...

all this kinda stuff is not unlike a call to not criticize or condemn racists, etc, in our ranks -- a call for the enabling of silence.

Nobody sets out to divide anyone or anything, it happens as a result of things beyond the control of those doing so.

Furthermore, there's nothing mutually exclusive about being an alleged "ODS-sufferer", etc, who does the criticizing and condemning and otherwise satisfying your "hero" criteria.

And besides, it was the "purists" around here and elsewhere that put those doing so on an "enemies" list going back well before the last election, and all of these efforts to project the guilt for the "dividing" onto those who are and have simply stuck to the things that historically has made a lefty a lefty is hilarious and disgusting, and nothing more than the makings of a self-fulfilling prophecy given the denial of being heard (under penalty of villification) it represents to so many.

If dem enthusiasm remains dampened and results in needless losses this Nov, you'll have no one to blame but yourselves, because you appear to think that the best time to try to hold the pols feet to the fire is after they already have the security of having gained office, as opposed to making that achievement conditional upon at least some rhetoric indicating they are responsive to the act of holding their feet to the proverbial fire.

disunity and division amongst Democrats.

Unfathomable.

Third Way ideals are far different from Democratic ideals. That's why they call themselves The Third Way.

Debbie Schlussel a evil hatefilled wench plastic surgery can't cover up this much ugly.

Not who is on it.

Attacking the Republicans: Not fair.

Attacking the Democrats: Ratfuck away!

It is bearing false witness to what was said...like saying Al Gore said he invented the internet...only even a bigger stretch.

Creating an enemy's list is wrong in principle and shows a vindictive nature, which is wrong no matter who does it or for what reason...the end does not justify the means.

When people replace policy as the targets of ire and destruction, you are lost. Regardless. That is a fundamental axiom of democracy and its values.

If he is their candidate, or is getting more facetime on TV I will not watch anything. His face and his voice nauseating me.

So many creeps, so little time

I agree with everything you said. I think the main goal for everyone who really cares about keeping republicans from taking over this country should be united in doing their best to get rid of as many republicans, and tea party nuts, as we can come election time in November.

United we stand, divided we fall.

The gop is the enemy.

So how you intend to deal with your enemies?

Where is unrec? This is truly nauseating, but not for the reasons you are likely to think.

Now everyone line up behind me and do as I say.

- AT&T (for enabling the NSA)
- Verizon Wireless
- HSBC (for laundering money to Mexican drug cartels)
- Merill Lynch
- Goldman Sachs (for tanking the economy)
- British Petroleum (for destroying the Gulf Of Mexico and covering it up)

Let me add the most important; this is a partial list, but these are the CEOs hiding behind the logos of the some of the most egregious multinational corporations.

Jamie Dimon (JP Morgan Chase)
Lloyd Blankfein (Goldman Sachs)
Brian Moynihan (Bank of America)
John Strumpf (Wells Fargo)
Rex Tillerson (ExxonMoble)
Bob Dudley (British Petrolem
John Watson (Chevron Corporation)
Bob Murray (Murray Energy)
Don Blankenship (Massey Energy)
Lynn Good (Duke Energy)
Ian Read (Pfizer)
Andrew Witty (GlaxoSmithKline)
Hugh Grant (Monsanto)

When all is said and done, these people (and Dave and Charlie Koch, of course) are at the top of the list. If we don't take them down, we won't change anything.

They aren't too big to fail -- they're too big for their breeches.

and leave it out of this tread? Just a friendly suggestion

What is the point of that?

Thank you, as Will Rogers said many decades ago and it still holds true today "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

We need to win in November 2014. Everything else is just a distraction from what we need to do. We let ourselves be divided in 1980 and every American(and lots of people in other countries) have paid a very steep price for that division. We need to unite and move forward. We did not get in this mess overnight and it will take an awful lot of work to fix it. It is so much easier to tear things down than fix and build.

These idiots would set back civil rights legislation adopted decades ago.

As Republicans like to say, they're the "good 'uns".

As Charles S. Pierce says, "the goggle-eyed homunculus hired by Koch Industries to manage its midwest subsidiary formerly known as the state of Wisconsin."

Bullshit.

Can you name one tea party member of congress that is not an asshole?

Yes, that's a good list.

Seems like an important distinction.

not anonymous posters on a discussion site.

This post was a personal post. If you have a different opinion and actually think other DUers who disagree with your position are enemies, then so be it.