but when the same people that I pretty much disagree with on anything started up with the personal attacks, I knew that I should probably take a second look.

I thought he was an ass before all the "anti-Snowden propaganda", and I still think he's an ass.

Sid

The biggest whistleblower this decade? Why you no like?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

At first, I understood why he felt he had to do what did, but I really thought he should have tried going through channels -- not at NSA, but with the liberal side of Congress. (I do think that Sanders, Udall, Polis and a few others would have been on his side.) I definitely picked up a first impression of the type of geek that annoys the hell out of me -- entitled Glibertarian Millennial faux-anarchist with l33t mad skillz and probably more hype than content.

But. More than a year in, partly thanks to the anti-side, I've read more and more deeply, found alternate sources, considered the scope and scale of the issues, thought a lot about power, control, secrecy. I've watched the intelligence side handle themselves like amateur stock villains in vaudeville and headdesked that this is what controls SIGINT, and the courts be useless or worse. I've run some personal experiments with data collection and tracking, and with my tech. I'm still not sure which is worse, the spying I pay my government to do, or the spying I volunteer for, but I get it, as much as a stats geek who is mostly a user, not a programmer or hacker, can.

I've come to the opinion that Snowden did a great and terrible thing, and that it was the only practical option because the Master's house needed to be demolished, and can only be destroyed with the Master's own tools. I still see the Glibertarian sometimes, but this last year has polished and tempered away much of what I picked up early on. I see more empathy and less aggrievedness. Less entitlement and more communitarianism. Less 4chan anarchism and more David Graeber social democratic anarchism. I think he was right to be afraid for his life. And I think this year is just the beginning of a very long, cold cultural battle.

Some new things to think about.

It's hilarious how many people actually think a number of DUers critical of Snowden are paid to post here.

Truly fascinating.

either make their living in the privacy data-mining cottage industry or otherwise have family who do.

Their talking points became stale, and I could easily pick them out when posted by the latest sockpuppet.

"I'm glad he exposed the NSA, but I'm much more concerned with the secrets he gave to the Russians."

I think that's the one that was judged to me most palatable to the casual observer on DU. It's been coming up quite frequently for some time now, pretty much verbatim, from a dozen or so posters.

They never seem to reply when you point out that none of Snowden's files were on the laptop he took to Russia, and he had dispensed all the files to journalists prior to flying to Moscow.

Because he said so? And giving it to the Chinese that gets a pass

Freepers rejoice!

Their very 24/7 presence and behavior here only underscore the sickness and corruption of the system.

complete with the trademark derisive, mocking smiley.

Thank you for that immediate illustration.

He/She actually thinks there are loads of government funded infiltrators on DU.

The paranoia is astounding.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

Where do I collect my check?

It was considered wrong when Bush did it, and it's still wrong now that Obama is doing it. It's a shame that 25% of Democrats have proven incapable of distinguishing between policy and personality. It's hard to fathom why they would be enablers of this policy that violates our Constitutional right to privacy.

Throughout the world.
Stating that, it is good that domestic surveillance is being talked about and given more credence.

However, I feel like, the only reason it is such a big thing, is because it is one of the few things the left and the right agree upon.
The left has always been critical of it.
The right found another thing to hate Obama on.

Don't get me wrong, I do not support NSA's surveillance. However, lionizing Snowden to me is wrong, as for me he is merely an opportunist who mentioned a program that has been discussed in a more explicit manner.

I think he did a disservice to the conversation since he inserted himself as a personality in it, rather than it being discussed properly. Wait, I am sorry, actually, I am conflicted in that point. In certain ways, I feel like a front man is needed for many things to run through, I fear I just don't trust his motivations, and feel like he is taking us all in a ride. Either way, the conversation is more in regards to Snowden rather than the actual topic of domestic surveillance. As we discuss Snowden, it has not changed the situation, in fact it hardened it.

Perhaps it is why I don't really go for these sorts of threads. It is pointless to me, as people go on and on about the merits of Snowden or his faults, muddying the issues.

I don't support prosecuting him either. To me, exile from the US is more than enough punishment.

So no, it hasn't changed my mind, but then again, I never had a favorable view of Snowden or the NSA. I don't have to take a side, I just don't like either of them.

I don't say much about this, because I know a majority here support Snowden, I respect people's view on this, if people find him brave, fine, I still don't trust his reasons, and I feel like much of the justifications that he now mentions are all after the fact.

Still, the one thing about all this that does matter to me, is that they need to strengthen whistleblower protections. Which is probably why I don't mind him just staying away, and leave well enough alone.

So, long story short... No, none of the things said here has swayed me either way.

The story continues to change and he keeps trying to change the actions he has taken.

I'm with him even more

Is Snowden really a spy. What an interesting question. If he was a trained spy, they he was far more important to the Government than a mere tech guy who fixed computers. But if he wasn't, then how did he manage to evade everyone in Hong Kong for so long and make it to Russia while the entire US Government was hunting him like nobody else. If an amateur dolt can do that with no more training than is found in old James Bond books, then what the hell is all those billions of dollars going for?

So if he is a Spy, the NSA lied again. If he isn't a spy, then the Intelligence Agencies are not only performing unconstitutional actions and still failing to stop any terrorist attacks, but they're as inept at chasing spies too. In fact, other than spying on girlfriends and wives, we can't find anything they have done well.

what the government is doing in secret?

At least people are being taught a lesson not to stick their nose into the business of the security state and the intelligence services!

beneficial to people and planet.