even much of what is labelled "wild caught" was started in commercial hatcheries. Tilapia would not be available at all without farming.

Why do the alarm ringers always seem to make it about the distant future? 2050 is a year pulled out of their butt -- large wild fish are already mostly gone. The oceans are now a giant heat sink for climate change and therefore they aren't going to "recover" during our lifetimes.

http://www.fishwatch.gov/features/top10seafoods_and_sources_10_10_12.html

Anyone who's seen an urchin barren off South California knows this. Sea urchins being otter food.

Watch those 8mm home movies from the 1950's of guys piling abalones on their surf boards. And they're standing in four feet of water.

Its a marvel we have whales at all. Oh yeah, they eat krill and we're not competing for krill.

Entomophagy, anyone?

One quarter of the Japanese catch of E. superba is used in the form of fresh frozen krill as fish bait and half the E. pacifica catch is used as chum for sport fishing. About 43% of the Japanese catch of E. superba is processed for human consumption. The Japanese industry produces boiled, frozen krill and peeled tail meat. Other uses include krill pastes or processed krill as food additives, e.g. in the form of krill oil gel capsules.

Freeze dried blocks of krill are also fed to animals.

There are too many humans now.

meaning for every 100 Americans alive today there will be only 65 in the next generation.

But the birthrate has almost nothing to do with ecology -- there is very little carbon emitted during child birth. The issue is about using dirty and wasteful means of producing cheap energy and doing almost nothing to make systems cleaner and more efficient.

It's not the isolated process of childbirth that's killing the planet. After that singular event, you've got a person who will be using resources and producing waste. For about 75 years.

It's the ever increasing numbers of us, globally, each one of us looking to survive at best, be comfortable and live a "first world" lifestyle, westernizing influence, global corporations ....

Mass production, to satisfy ever growing masses, worldwide. First world countries, and emerging industrialized countries.

Population may be declining in a few countries but that is not true overall.

The birthrate in the US has gone way down but we are still #1 in greenhouse gas per person so it isn't the number of peoplethat is the problem. We have to get cleaner energy sources online ASAP.

The problem is carbon, not babies.

Human population is global. We are not the only industrialised nation.

Unlimited growth of one single species is the philosophy of a cancer cell.

People are driving the mass extinctions going on. Global population is rising.

People are the problem. Babies are people, we have a lifespan, we each use resources and create waste over that span.

I need to go right now. Work.

If there are less people in need of assistance.

n/t

due to acidifying the oceans. see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1127&pid=70278

god Fucking dammit.........

In the last episode of Cosmos, Tyson pointed out that the oceans absorb a lot of that excess CO2 we pump into the atmosphere and it's killing the oceans. Killing the oceans totally screws the whole life cycle for the planet. It's not just the fish . . .

Last edited Wed Jun 4, 2014, 12:59 PM - Edit history (1)

the early 90s.

Poppy Bush repaying his NWO crony.

Let's see who will pop up to defend the Korean cult leader who developed the RW propaganda media machine.

over the last 3 decades, Leme?

If you had you would.......

perhaps....

know more.......

and that....

your intentions to prove....

that there is no difference...

between the parties....

is based in ....

utter Horsesh!t.

Horsesh!t = RandPaul2016

Last edited Wed Jun 4, 2014, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Go ahead.

I've been paying attention to Rev Moon's political adventures for nearly 3 decades.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/unification-church-leaders-vow-to-complete-rev-moons-mission/2012/09/03/ae8c23f4-f5ec-11e1-91cb-58c92a8a140e_story.html

Moon-affiliated companies in the United States and around the world, however, continue to be among the largest players in the fishing industry, supplying much of the sushi served in U.S. restaurants, and are profitably engaged in producing cars in North Korea, helicopters in South Korea and religious icons in Japan, along with Moon’s resorts and real estate operations throughout Asia and South America.
>>>>

made that supports what you wrote. You stated :

Rev Moon's Unification Church controls more than half this nation's fishing industry and has since the early 90s.

I found they were connected with large enterprises such as True World

The links between True World's various companies (including crystal tschotchkes as well as foods, specialty grocery stores, various restaurants in the Northeast/Midwest, and boats) and the Unification Church are not noted on any of the websites. And just how directly they're linked is a matter of dispute. The Trib quotes the Rev. Phillip Schanker, a Unification Church spokesman that True World is "not organizationally or legally connected" to the church, but simply "businesses founded by members of the Unification Church."
-
I saw they did have more than 50% of the SUSHI market, which is a far cry from "Rev Moon's Unification Church controls more than half this nation's fishing industry"... which is what you claim.

"According to a 2006 Chicago Tribune investigation, Mr. Moon’s True World Foods provided most of the raw fish consumed at sushi restaurants in the United States."
-

so either you don't do this, or you are doing that.
-
Either way you were way, way incorrect. this or that..your choice. : )

I know better, Mr 'No difference between the parties' Leme.

I've also known since an early Frontline documentary that Moon was gaining control of the US fishing industry. It was over 1/3 at the time. His business and control GREW since then.

I find your presence here to be amusing - I expected you'd jump in to play your game.

And...you did.

of the sushi selling with over 50 % of the fishing industry. That is just plain goofy... even using your sources.

Last edited Wed Jun 4, 2014, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

is you trying to pretend there is no dominance by moonies over this nation's fishing industry.

Your RandPaul2016 efforts compel you to try and cover for RW propaganda machine and the Korean cult leader who developed it, eh Leme?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/info/1009.html

could have happened without first controlling fishing industry. Controlling the fishing industry was/is a huge part of Unification Theology.
http://www.tparents.org/library/unification/books/40years/40-4-40.htm

You're just plain silly for trying to defend RW propaganda empires that you rely on for your silly proRandPaul views. You'll defend any propagandist who supports your views - even the Moonies. Or...you are a moonie, yourself.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/unification-church-leaders-vow-to-complete-rev-moons-mission/2012/09/03/ae8c23f4-f5ec-11e1-91cb-58c92a8a140e_story.html

Moon-affiliated companies in the United States and around the world, however, continue to be among the largest players in the fishing industry, supplying much of the sushi served in U.S. restaurants, and are profitably engaged in producing cars in North Korea, helicopters in South Korea and religious icons in Japan, along with Moon’s resorts and real estate operations throughout Asia and South America.
>>>>

you prove it.

and I and others are aware of that game.

Your predictable attempts to protect your RW propaganda system are kinda funny, though.

you cant force me to look for something NOT there. lol

You just want to play your RandPaul2016 games.

Keep it up....this is fun.

and I am now sure of that.
-
you really should do a better fact check and not spout outlandish claims and try to hope people will not catch you.
-
none of your sources support the claim that:

"Rev Moon's Unification Church controls more than half this nation's fishing industry and has since the early 90s."
-
that statement is garbage.
-
when one makes fraudulent claims like that, your entire message becomes suspect.
-
and implying personal attacks also weakens your case/agenda.

in those links that support Moon's Unification Church's dominant role in the fishing industry. Yeah - and let's not pretend you saw the Frontline documentary. You didn't.


So - are you a moonie? Or, rather, Moonist as you call yourselves these days? Or, just a plain, old runofthemill RandPaul supporter who needs to protect the credibility of the RW propaganda media that supports you?

but foremost you promote an untruth...as shown in your post #18

And you are invested in protecting the RW propaganda machine that serves your interests.

interests in the years after. It is also evident in Moon's theological teachings that it was important for Unification Church to focus on the fishing industry. You just refuse to apply logic. You are invested in the illusion that Moon's reach into the US has been benign.


Controlling the fishing industry was/is a huge part of Unification Theology.
http://www.tparents.org/library/unification/books/40years/40-4-40.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/unification-church-leaders-vow-to-complete-rev-moons-mission/2012/09/03/ae8c23f4-f5ec-11e1-91cb-58c92a8a140e_story.html
>>
Moon-affiliated companies in the United States and around the world, however, continue to be among the largest players in the fishing industry, supplying much of the sushi served in U.S. restaurants, and are profitably engaged in producing cars in North Korea, helicopters in South Korea and religious icons in Japan, along with Moon’s resorts and real estate operations throughout Asia and South America.
>>

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_09/rip_sun_myung_moon039624.php
>>
The preacher also built a vast seafood enterprise that includes fishing boats, processors and distributors from Alaska to Gloucester, Mass. According to a 2006 Chicago Tribune investigation, Mr. Moon’s True World Foods provided most of the raw fish consumed at sushi restaurants in the United States.
>>

Yeah - there is nothing in those links that indicate Moon's dominance of the fishing industry. LOL - Especially if you don't WANT to see it.

your claim in post # 18:

"Rev Moon's Unification Church controls more than half this nation's fishing industry and has since the early 90s. "


the closest you come to that is: "True World Foods provided most of the raw fish consumed at sushi restaurants in the United States."

Sushi is not the nation's fishing industry.

industry that Moon developed from building the boats to fishing the waters to distribution and processing plants, the trucking fleets, and supplying most of the sushi to restaurants and food store chains all across America. Sushi is just ONE PART of it.

http://spitfirelist.com/news/sushi-and-rev-moon/

You are just desperate to cling to your internet game of pretend. Moonist, eh?

Transcript of NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw - August 1990. Jamie Gangel reporting from Washington D.C..

Tom Brokaw: Over a decade ago Rev. Sun Myung Moon was accused of controlling the minds of young people - creating so called "moonies." Well, he's avoided public controversy since that time but quietly, he and his organization have been building a powerful business empire and some of his former top aids say that makes him even more dangerous now.
The latest from NBC's Jamie Gangel:

(scene: Moon mass wedding with participants at Moon's direction raising hands and yelling "mansie" in unison three times)

Gangel: Sun Myung Moon, 1982, this is what most people remember; the mass weddings, the moonies, young people sent out to sell flowers and give all their money to the church. Since then, Rev. Moon and his followers have built an empire but critics still charge the UC is a destructive cult.

Steve Hassan: It's an international conglomerate of people who are completely under the control of Moon and his leadership. It's an organization that wants to take over the world and has been working to do so, relentlessly.

JG: They own - prime real estate in all fifty states, one third of the U. S. fishing industry, banks, hotels, a weapons factory, even this fancy French jewelry company (show Christian Bernard Jewelers) and now the Moon organization is focusing on television. In a rare interview we spoke to Moon's right hand man, Bo Hi Pak. He told us, their goal is a national cable network.

Bo Hi Pak: It's going to be a America's television, promote America's ideology, America's worldview, which is God centered world view, traditional values, that is what America needs.

JG: And the point man for the TV operation is Jonathon Park, Bo Hi Pak's son. Funded in part by Church related businesses, in the past five years Park has bought virtually every independent television production company in Washington DC. He's built this $90 million dollar complex and now controls five companies, including the largest state of the art studio in town. He's even bought into Nostalgia cable, a system that reaches almost 11 million viewers. It's made competitors nervous.

Joe Rothstein: I think the immediate danger in the Washington area is that they would get a lock on all the means of television and video production.

Jonathon Park: There is no other motive, no other hidden agenda. These businesses are run for profit and they're operated very much like any other well run company.

JG: And the church will not influence them?

Jonathon Park: Absolutely, no.

JG: In fact, Park's clients say there has not been any influence and very few of his employees are even church members but critics say there is another agenda.

Warder: If you want to be the second coming of Christ, you want all the power you want all the money, you want control of all the media. That's the objective.

JG: And if the names of your clients are a measure of your power and prestige, Jonathon Park and the Moon organization can now claim they are accepted by a virtual who's who of the TV industry.

(video of CNN lead in) CNN is one of the most visible. It rents many of its crews and technical staff from Park. NBC, ABC, CBS, and many of their affiliates also give Park business.

James Whelan: People are cooperating willy nilly throwing their money at them, throwing their reputations, their prestige, their honor even, at the moonie cause and choosing not to look. See no evil, hear no evil....

JG: Others are Ted Koppel communications, many foreign networks and Entertainment Tonight.

SH: Doing business with Moon is giving credibility and legitimacy to a man who is, in my opinion, a total demagogue, who runs a destructive cult that uses deception, mind control, and hurts thousands and thousands of people.

JG: The Moon organization vehemently denies these attacks.

Bo Hi Pak: They're the liars, they're liars and premeditated to destroy our church and I know one thing, we're speaking the truth. And I know who Rev. Moon is, he's a man of God. (...unintelligible) God is truth. I know we shall prevail because "truth" shall prevail.

JG: Should anyone be worried about this? Critics say "Yes" - that Moon's agenda is power, taking over the world. But the church insists that's absurd, that it's just investing in legitimate businesses.

Jamie Gangel NBC News Washington.

I claim you didn't provide any proof...and you still have not, except that that True World supplied more than 50 % of the sushi... which is not the same as controlling most of the fishing industry in the USA.
-
and your new link doesn't show or prove that your original statement in #18 is true.
-
sadly for you, I doubt there is anything even close that shows that one company controls over 50% of the USA fishing industry.

Sadly for you, I doubt there is anything even close that shows that Moonies shrunk their dominant hold on the US fishing industry.

your links have nothing showing validity of your statement.
-
Only your magic math supports you. That just will not do.

and all the links speaking to his dominant role in the fishing industry don't matter to you - so - it's apparent your role here is to protect the benign image that Moonies, or Moonists as you prefer to be called, like to portray outwardly even as you rev up your RW lie machine to catapult the propaganda.

became less.
-
You made the claim he/moonies controlled over half the fishing industry in the USA, You showed some evidence that he perhaps had over half of the sushi market. lol

You need to pretend that Moon never acquired anything more than that, go ahead. You're still not fooling anyone.

I don't need to pretend anything. You claimed they controlled over 50%. and you show yourself now to pretend that Frontline made a claim of 1/3... and they did not. Or NBC had a claim they had 33 % of the fishing industry... and I saw no such claim. But somehow you get to add 17% in any case. lol

Sorry your logic cells are not engaging - perhaps you're not exercising them enough at this site?

It's probably already occurring. Most of the planet will die, and the survivors will live on to evolve into new species the way they did in prior extinctions. Whether or not humans will survive this extinction is up in the air, but it's unlikely we will (unless if we have mastered interstellar travel).

Could be one hundred years, could be one thousand or more - who knows? Imo, humans are much too stubborn and arrogant to change anything. We'll continue stabbing holes in the sinking ship until we all drown.

I would love too but my problem is that Linda McCartney ate very well on a plant leaf diet and ended up getting cancer and died. It is too scary to just eat plant-based and expect to live a long life. Had that not happened, I might have been able to get on board, but I think we all need some animal products as well just not the huge amount most humans take in.

There are hundreds of millions of vegetarians in this world. They are not dying from cancer.

Linda McCartney died from breast cancer. No one knows what causes it, and there is certainly no known link between breast cancer and vegetarianism.

I love how nice you are. I give my reason and you stomp all over me. You are just way too nice. Thanks!

They all live to be be 98!

I can't believe I've been overlooking that!

We actually have a pretty good idea of what things increase and decrease one's chances of cancer:

1. Heredity. Some families are at risk for certain cancers. Nothing you can do about this one, except in a few cases where there's a genetic test to identify risk. Some women with BRCA genes get their breasts and/or reproductive tracts removed as a precaution.

2. Diet. Plant based diets are protective, there's a great deal of data to back this up for many different cancers.

3. Lifestyle factors like smoking and excessive alcohol use.

4. Other factors: For example with breast cancer we know that the fewer menstrual cycles one has lifetime, the lower their risk. So late menarche is protective (and slightly effected by diet, but mostly genetic, as well as varying wildly among human populations) and pregnancy and breastfeeding are protective.

Any one individuals' disease generally can't be blamed on one specific cause. But we understand populations and their risks pretty well. Deciding to engage in risky behavior because one famous person engaged in a safer one and died makes about as much sense as deciding to commute on a motorcycle at high speed because you once heard of died in a crashed Volvo.

for not only are the oceans being increasingly over fished, as the water turns more acidic, there will be fewer fish, the entire food chain gets adversely affected.

Coral reefs are vital for fish and they are being hammered by global warming.

Thanks for the thread, onehandle.

I became a vegetarian over two years ago, but make very occasional exceptions at restaurants for seafood. Maybe 2-3 times a year. The gulf oil spill has made me especially leery of shrimp etc.

to help put an end to this. Hmmmm...

Don't let my DU handle give too many hints.

I'm sure they will use it to find a solution and not to mask reality. Otherwise, what legacy would an investor leave behind but one of shameful acquiescence in the face of the greatest evil life on earth has faced?

"When we are no longer able to change a situation - we are challenged to change ourselves."