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madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:08 PM Jun 2014

Moving DKos post. Bergdahl witnessed killing of child in 2009. It was covered up.

Bowe Bergdahl: "We Don't Even Care... About Running Their Children Down in the Dirt Streets"

Bowe Bergdahl witnessed a careless manslaughter in 2009. The killing of a child.

And then that killing was covered up by the officers in his Army unit: no report to Army Inspector General, no unit prosecution, no detention or reduction in pay grade, no punishment whatsoever for the MRAP driver who crushed the child.

..Bowe Bergdahl was raised as a devout Christian, a Calvinist, a follower of Jesus Christ, Son of God, Son of Mary, Lord of Lords, Messiah, Wonderful. As a Christian he refused to accept hateful delusions.

His last email to his parents made clear that his U.S. Army unit suffered a failure of leadership. This failure extended to support for an aggressive hatred of the local Afghan people.

It might as well have been Water Street in Manhattan in January, 2008. That's where a Wall Street CEO ran down Florence Cioffi, an office worker trying to hail a cab. He was recorded on video going 60 m.p.h. on that city street and kept going and was DUI and suffered not a whole lot more punishment than a strong talking-to. Nothing unusual.


The poster also links to a Rollings Stone article from 2011.

The Kill Team: How U.S. Soldiers in Afghanistan Murdered Innocent Civilians

Early last year, after six hard months soldiering in Afghanistan, a group of American infantrymen reached a momentous decision: It was finally time to kill a haji.

Among the men of Bravo Company, the notion of killing an Afghan civilian had been the subject of countless conversations, during lunchtime chats and late-night bull sessions. For weeks, they had weighed the ethics of bagging "savages" and debated the probability of getting caught. Some of them agonized over the idea; others were gung-ho from the start. But not long after the New Year, as winter descended on the arid plains of Kandahar Province, they agreed to stop talking and actually pull the trigger.

Bravo Company had been stationed in the area since summer, struggling, with little success, to root out the Taliban and establish an American presence in one of the most violent and lawless regions of the country. On the morning of January 15th, the company's 3rd Platoon – part of the 5th Stryker Brigade, based out of Tacoma, Washington – left the mini-metropolis of tents and trailers at Forward Operating Base Ramrod in a convoy of armored Stryker troop carriers. The massive, eight-wheeled trucks surged across wide, vacant stretches of desert, until they came to La Mohammad Kalay, an isolated farming village tucked away behind a few poppy fields.


Not an easy article to read..

The poppy plants were still low to the ground at that time of year. The two soldiers, Cpl. Jeremy Morlock and Pfc. Andrew Holmes, saw a young farmer who was working by himself among the spiky shoots. Off in the distance, a few other soldiers stood sentry. But the farmer was the only Afghan in sight. With no one around to witness, the timing was right. And just like that, they picked him for execution.


I am glad to see President Obama defending his decision on Bergdahl.
82 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Moving DKos post. Bergdahl witnessed killing of child in 2009. It was covered up. (Original Post) madfloridian Jun 2014 OP
I have assumed from day one he was reacting to horrific conditions, in a place we never randys1 Jun 2014 #1
Thank you for the information..now at least it is becoming more clear as to why the soldiers Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #2
Ding ding malaise Jun 2014 #7
I said something similar earlier. They protest to loudly...They want to discredit Bowe before he kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #56
Yea, very agressive and off the charts. It did not make sense why all this was happening Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #57
Too loudly and way too quickly and suddenly. Too organized. madfloridian Jun 2014 #75
Clarity ensues. WilliamPitt Jun 2014 #3
I have no doubt this will someday be a movie. trumad Jun 2014 #5
It basically was MohRokTah Jun 2014 #47
I think Bergdahl reminds them too much of this young soldier csziggy Jun 2014 #9
Sailor. geardaddy Jun 2014 #14
OOOh! I should have caught that! csziggy Jun 2014 #19
Heh. Easy to make the mistake when you're wearing green. geardaddy Jun 2014 #21
Oh...me too.... mylye2222 Jun 2014 #15
If you had read Brinkley's "Tour of Duty "...Kerry, to, has witnessed that same kind of tragedy. mylye2222 Jun 2014 #23
Small planes mindwalker_i Jun 2014 #37
You win a lollipop...because that is exactly what this is randys1 Jun 2014 #52
Bergdahl's platoon mates all really seem to hate him, and that's cast as TwilightGardener Jun 2014 #4
Who knows if those fellows are REALLY HIS PLATOON's? Remember SBVT assholes, who mylye2222 Jun 2014 #12
Serpico was also hated alcibiades_mystery Jun 2014 #18
some PR company is pushing them grasswire Jun 2014 #31
That's exactly right. madfloridian Jun 2014 #82
Sounds like he walked away to get far away from these neanderthals! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #59
I think something in his last several days on post broke him/set him off. TwilightGardener Jun 2014 #63
they were probably cheering that they got to run over or shoot children and he was religious VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #64
snip* But a review of internal Army records and investigative files obtained by Rolling Stone, Read Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #6
WOW! ( The platoon has a reputation," a whistle-blower named Pfc. Justin Stoner told the Army The Wielding Truth Jun 2014 #54
Yes, this information may explain a great deal, on many levels. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #55
Dead heroes nadinbrzezinski Jun 2014 #8
Did you see the NYT editorial? Very good one, urging common sense and caution. madfloridian Jun 2014 #74
Most enlightening dorkzilla Jun 2014 #10
Another Dkos diary that says his unit was not exactly full of exemplary soldiers gvstn Jun 2014 #11
Thanks for the link. madfloridian Jun 2014 #33
He was trying to escape these cretins.. VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #61
WOW Mr Dixon Jun 2014 #13
"bagging "savages""... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #16
Hate to say it, but that sort of thing wasn't just in Afghanistan Xithras Jun 2014 #17
Right. Same tactics in Iraq. madfloridian Jun 2014 #22
It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Xithras Jun 2014 #38
The Point Often Missed RobinA Jun 2014 #80
That former soldier that has been seen declaring Bergdahl a deserter on MSNBC ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #20
Two of them are discussed in this thread alsame Jun 2014 #24
Yes, those too. But I found the one I was looking for...Joshua Cornelison. I'd ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #28
"He's a deserter but he alsame Jun 2014 #35
And then there is this: ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #40
Jesus. He's probably part of the alsame Jun 2014 #41
Here's a link to an article which Skidmore Jun 2014 #25
Thank you, Skidmore. Here is the guy I was looking for: Joshua Cornelison. ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #29
More about what was done in our name there. Taxi to the Dark Side. madfloridian Jun 2014 #26
After Reading This Thread - Is There Any Wonder Why The GI Suicide Rate Is So High?......nt global1 Jun 2014 #27
GOOD POINT! Kick to you! mylye2222 Jun 2014 #30
That's what I thought too IronLionZion Jun 2014 #43
Not a new situation during war... Wounded Bear Jun 2014 #32
He was becoming The Wizard Jun 2014 #34
My take jaycrewz Jun 2014 #36
you say if the OP is true, it doesn't excuse desertion? CreekDog Jun 2014 #42
Nope. You should always continue to kill people, even if you think it's wrong. arcane1 Jun 2014 #44
The OP is not giving anyone a pass, it is information. Understanding more of what Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #49
Is this real or an opinion? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #39
Before we start erecting statues or gallows let's wait for actual facts... Demo_Chris Jun 2014 #45
I don't see any team picking, it is more information, period. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #48
"Cody" of course denies this riverwalker Jun 2014 #46
This adds important context to this story. I hope that this gets wide coverage. n/t totodeinhere Jun 2014 #50
So the rest of his platoon was a bunch of psychopaths mwrguy Jun 2014 #51
sigh DustyJoe Jun 2014 #53
This confuses me whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #58
I did not attempt an opinion. What we have done as a nation there are facts. madfloridian Jun 2014 #60
The military also covered up Bergdahl's history of going on walks (and coming back) riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #62
I did not know that. Interesting. madfloridian Jun 2014 #68
PTSD? KamaAina Jun 2014 #65
K&R nt FloriTexan Jun 2014 #66
Thanks. madfloridian Jun 2014 #67
This is why the Right is smearing him AnnieBW Jun 2014 #69
Don't know if you missed this Democracy Now Interview with his father.... KoKo Jun 2014 #70
Thanks, I did miss that. madfloridian Jun 2014 #71
Surprised to see this post is said to be "taking sides"... madfloridian Jun 2014 #72
Ha! Slate captures words of Charlie Daniels before and after on Bergdahl. madfloridian Jun 2014 #73
kick Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #76
Second Section is Disingenuous and Mis-leading 4Q2u2 Jun 2014 #77
Blaming suicides in the military on mental illness makes a vulnerable population scapegoats. madfloridian Jun 2014 #78
Kind of my response to a compilation of responses to the OP 4Q2u2 Jun 2014 #81
None of this is new to this or any other war smallcat88 Jun 2014 #79

randys1

(16,286 posts)
1. I have assumed from day one he was reacting to horrific conditions, in a place we never
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:14 PM
Jun 2014

should have sent him to do things he never should have been made to do...

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
2. Thank you for the information..now at least it is becoming more clear as to why the soldiers
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:18 PM
Jun 2014

are trying to get their spin on him before he comes home.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
56. I said something similar earlier. They protest to loudly...They want to discredit Bowe before he
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 05:28 PM
Jun 2014

discredits them. The GOP wants to cover up any atrocities our own soldiers may have committed. That's why they hate folks like Kerry who not only served, but came home to reveal some pretty nasty stuff.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
57. Yea, very agressive and off the charts. It did not make sense why all this was happening
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 05:33 PM
Jun 2014

prior to his return..but it is beginning to now.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
75. Too loudly and way too quickly and suddenly. Too organized.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 08:01 AM
Jun 2014

Someone group is organizing them.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2014/06/04/here_s_how_quickly_conservatives_turned_on_bowe_bergdahl.html

And article quotes Charlie Daniels from 2012 and now.


Here's Charlie Daniels—yes, he of "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" fame.

Obama its time to bring Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl home he's been a Taliban prisoner for 4 years Rescue him,it's more important than rescuing G M
— Charlie Daniels (@CharlieDaniels) June 12, 2012

And here he is after the controversy began.

Obama can trade five of the most dangerous men in the world for a soldier who may be a deserter and can't even make a call to save a hero
— Charlie Daniels (@CharlieDaniels) June 3, 2014




Amazing.
 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
3. Clarity ensues.
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jun 2014

So I'm just going to throw this on the stoop and see if the cat licks it up...but I'm beginning to develop a clearer sense of why the Right is going after Bowe Bergdahl with all cannons blazing. It's not because he's a "deserter," and though it has something to do with their constant imperative to take a dump on anything the President does, that's not the whole story, either.

Mr. Bergdahl appears to be a bright, sensitive individual...and once he gets his health back and gets in front of a camera, he is going to tell this snowblind country and the world entire about the horrors he saw while participating in the Afghanistan war.

Can't have that, can we?

 

mylye2222

(2,992 posts)
23. If you had read Brinkley's "Tour of Duty "...Kerry, to, has witnessed that same kind of tragedy.
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:28 PM
Jun 2014

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
4. Bergdahl's platoon mates all really seem to hate him, and that's cast as
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jun 2014

evidence against Bergdahl--but maybe people need to be investigating these soldiers' conduct as well. Maybe there's a reason they all wanted him...not coming back, let's say.

 

mylye2222

(2,992 posts)
12. Who knows if those fellows are REALLY HIS PLATOON's? Remember SBVT assholes, who
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jun 2014

clamed to have served at Kerry's side.....when the TRUTH was that they didn't....... I smell a big coup monté against this guy...yes.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
63. I think something in his last several days on post broke him/set him off.
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 06:03 PM
Jun 2014

He reached a breaking point, or got into an altercation with platoon mates.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
64. they were probably cheering that they got to run over or shoot children and he was religious
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 06:05 PM
Jun 2014

and couldn't square it...I am betting THEY are the reason he left....without anything....

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
6. snip* But a review of internal Army records and investigative files obtained by Rolling Stone, Read
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:28 PM
Jun 2014

including dozens of interviews with members of Bravo Company compiled by military investigators, indicates that the dozen infantrymen being portrayed as members of a secretive "kill team" were operating out in the open, in plain view of the rest of the company. Far from being clandestine, as the Pentagon has implied, the murders of civilians were common knowledge among the unit and understood to be illegal by "pretty much the whole platoon," according to one soldier who complained about them. Staged killings were an open topic of conversation, and at least one soldier from another battalion in the 3,800-man Stryker Brigade participated in attacks on unarmed civilians. "The platoon has a reputation," a whistle-blower named Pfc. Justin Stoner told the Army Criminal Investigation Command. "They have had a lot of practice staging killings and getting away with it."

K&R

The Wielding Truth

(11,415 posts)
54. WOW! ( The platoon has a reputation," a whistle-blower named Pfc. Justin Stoner told the Army
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 05:21 PM
Jun 2014

Criminal Investigation Command. "They have had a lot of practice staging killings and getting away with it." )

The persecution of Bergdahl is so harsh that there is not much doubt in my mind now that the radical Right would have been the first to have called for the head of Jesus, too. I hope that there is a major investigation into the state of things in that platoon.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
8. Dead heroes
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:36 PM
Jun 2014

are always better than live witnesses. This will be taken care off in silence. Too much embarrassment on all sides

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
74. Did you see the NYT editorial? Very good one, urging common sense and caution.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 03:01 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/opinion/demonizing-sergeant-bergdahl.html?_r=1

This duck-and-cover response is the result of the outrageous demonization of Sergeant Bergdahl in the absence of actual facts. Republican operatives have arranged for soldiers in his unit to tell reporters that he was a deserter who cost the lives of several soldiers searching for him. In fact, a review of casualty reports by Charlie Savage and Andrew Lehren of The Times showed there is no clear link between any military deaths and the search.

And a classified military report shows that Sergeant Bergdahl had walked away from assigned areas at least twice before and had returned, according to a report in The Times on Thursday. It describes him as a free-spirited young man who asked many questions but gave no indication of being a deserter, let alone the turncoat that Mr. Obama’s opponents are now trying to create.

If anything, the report suggests that the army unit’s lack of security and discipline was as much to blame for the disappearance, given the sergeant’s history.

....But the critics seeking political advantage don’t care about the life or mental state of a particular soldier, or of a principle of loyalty that should provide comfort to any soldier in danger of capture. They live only for the attack.

dorkzilla

(5,141 posts)
10. Most enlightening
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 02:58 PM
Jun 2014

Its all starting to make sense. Naturally anything the POTUS does is "wrong" or "impeachable" according to the RWNJ's but this just makes it crystal clear why this soldier is being tried in the court of public opinion. Many of us felt as though this newest manufactured "scandal" would blow up in the face of the GOP, and now the whole disgusting dirty truth will come to light.

Thank you for posting this. Most enlightening indeed.

gvstn

(2,805 posts)
11. Another Dkos diary that says his unit was not exactly full of exemplary soldiers
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jun 2014
2. According to the now famous article by Michael Hastings about Bergdahl, his unit was basically a bunch of undisciplined fuck ups who went out on patrol without helmets, lost weapons, totally lacked morale and respect for military authority, etc. At least two commanders were actually demoted! So, you have to take with a grain of salt the accusations being made against Bergdahl by these people. Especially now that we know they failed to report Bergdahl left the base without permission on a prior occasion, and are still telling the media that he is a "deserter" when they know damn well that's not true.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/05/1304556/-The-GOP-is-Heading-for-a-World-iof-Hurt-on-Bergdahl-here-s-why

Source Rolling Stone article: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607

Mr Dixon

(1,185 posts)
13. WOW
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:09 PM
Jun 2014

I HOPE HE GET'S TO TELL HIS STORY however this is nothing new war brings out the worst in people, Vietnam is a prime example only takes a little bit of digging to find out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
17. Hate to say it, but that sort of thing wasn't just in Afghanistan
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:20 PM
Jun 2014

My brother in law saw the very same thing happen in southern Iraq. His convoy was heading up the highway when a young girl ran out into the road and stopped. The gunner on their lead vehicle fired a number of shots over her head to get her out of the way, but she just stood there. The truck hit her, and every truck in the convoy ran her over. It gave him nightmares for years.

He explained why they do that. In the early part of the Iraq war, the insurgents figured out that the American troops would stop for a child in the road. Taking advantage of this, they kidnapped a couple of local kids and sent them out into the roadway (along with a threat along the lines of "run away and we'll shoot you/your parents/your sibling, or whatever&quot . When the Americans stopped for the child, the Iraqi's launched an ambush.

After that the directive went out stating that convoys were no longer allowed to stop for children in roadways. Problem was, the Iraqi's noticed that the American's were still reluctant to run over the children's bodies and would swerve around them. So the Iraqi's started burying IED's along the road shoulders, and would send the children out to stand in the middle of the road or in the lane on the opposite side than the IED. That way, the American vehicles would swerve around the childs body, and CLOSER to the IED. After that, they were instructed to assume that any kid in their path was part of a plan to steer them into a bomb or ambush, and to avoid swerving.

When that was implemented, the Iraqi's stopped using children that way because the tactic no longer offered any strategic advantage.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
38. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:22 PM
Jun 2014

My BiL never really tried to justify it, but he lived with it by reasoning that it actually saved more kids than it killed. As he put it, "If using kids as bait was an effective weapon, the Iraqi's would have been throwing children into firefights all over Iraq and even more would have died." By his reasoning, the killing of a few kids made the tactic ineffective, and saved the lives of a lot more kids.

And that, in a nutshell, is why humans should never go to war. It gives "justification" to the most barbaric and horrific acts we can imagine.

RobinA

(9,888 posts)
80. The Point Often Missed
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 12:19 PM
Jun 2014

in these discussions is that in large part atrocity-committers in the field are made, not born. Nobody goes off to war wanting to run over some kids or burn down some hooches with babies in them. THAT'S WHAT YOU TURN PEOPLE INTO IN A WAR. Fact.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
20. That former soldier that has been seen declaring Bergdahl a deserter on MSNBC
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:25 PM
Jun 2014

the past couple of days, or at least yesterday...I want him to be asked him some additional questions.

Does anyone happen to recall that young man's name?

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
28. Yes, those too. But I found the one I was looking for...Joshua Cornelison. I'd
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:56 PM
Jun 2014

like him (and the others) to answer some questions about their conduct while they were in Afghanistan, considering the tale in the OP.

Video link: http://player.theplatform.com/p/2E2eJC/EmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_hall_bergdahl_140604

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
40. And then there is this:
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:25 PM
Jun 2014
https://www.facebook.com/joshua.cornelison?fref=ts

https://twitter.com/JM_Cornelison - Created specifically to cash in on his association. Is he a lone party in his 15 minutes? Maybe. But, maybe not.

And I would still like to know about his conduct and the conduct of his platoon mates. I want him to answer questions about the war crimes they may have committed, like running over a child with an MCAC or assassinating a lone farmer while no one is looking.

alsame

(7,784 posts)
41. Jesus. He's probably part of the
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:30 PM
Jun 2014

group being represented by the GOP strategists.

I know that one of the others had a 'less than honorable discharge', I don't know about this one. I'll see what I can find.

ETA: Josh Korder:

Even more curious: WCCO reports that when he was discharged from the Army — apparently for less than honorable reasons, the TV station says — he had to sign an agreement that he would not talk about the Bergdahl case.

http://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2014/06/bergdahl-no-pal-to-former-minnesota-soldier/

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
29. Thank you, Skidmore. Here is the guy I was looking for: Joshua Cornelison.
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 03:58 PM
Jun 2014

I want to know about their conduct in Afghanistan, in light of the story in the oP.

IronLionZion

(45,427 posts)
43. That's what I thought too
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:36 PM
Jun 2014

I'm sure a lot of them saw unspeakable shit that would be very difficult to live with.

The Wizard

(12,541 posts)
34. He was becoming
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:08 PM
Jun 2014

demoralized and emotional numbing was getting the best of him. Cognitive dissonance.
Our whole lives we're told killing is a sin, and then the authority that claims the moral high ground rewards killing.

jaycrewz

(23 posts)
36. My take
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jun 2014

I think theres two problems here.

1. People too quick to condemn the guy.

2. People way too quick to say Bergdahl didnt do anything wrong.

How about we get all the facts first? And how about we stop talking certain things as gospel while ignoring other possible pieces of truth. I voted for Obama and I dont think he is above criticism or above my being suspicious of some things he does. Hes a politician just like everyone else...so I dont think Im always being told the truth by him...or by any media outlet.

Its possible Bergdahl was captured and didnt desert and that hes being thrown under the bus. Its also possible that he is very much a deserter and that his fellow soldiers are right to call him so. It seems many people are quick to condemn these other soldiers, just as much as other people wanna condemn Bergdahl.

Anyways, regarding whats in the OP...lets say these bad things are true....I dont think that excuses desertion (if he did desert). Seems people here are trying to find any way to sympathize with Bergdahl in the event his desertion is proven. And it seems many are trying to stay stuck on how bad of an idea the war turned out to be.

While I agree that the war was a dumb idea, disagreeing with war doesnt mean its ok to go against oaths youve made to your brothers and your country. Especially when we end up having to trade up bad guys to get back a soldier. Bergdahl may very well be an innocent dude who was captured...but I can see both sides to all this. I can understand not trusting our government and being bitter over an unjust war. I can also understand those who hate the idea of trading 5 guys who can harm more Americans.

I can be a pretty liberal guy myself, and I even have to admit that Bergdahl's dad isnt good PR for this move when hes rocking a beard, speaking a different language, and apparently sympathizes with those who dislike America.

I just wanna see a trial...though I have a feeling thatll never happen and we will have scores of unanswered questions.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
44. Nope. You should always continue to kill people, even if you think it's wrong.
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jun 2014

Or something.

















<--- in case it's needed

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
49. The OP is not giving anyone a pass, it is information. Understanding more of what
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:57 PM
Jun 2014

occurred is vital, this OP is helping meet that goal.

 

Demo_Chris

(6,234 posts)
45. Before we start erecting statues or gallows let's wait for actual facts...
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:39 PM
Jun 2014

And let's start with this: Obama's duty to bring this kid home has nothing to do with his guilt or virtue, so stop picking a team and wait.

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
46. "Cody" of course denies this
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 04:46 PM
Jun 2014

I doubt Cody Full is his real name (the Clive Bundy supporter). Tweets suggest he lives in Texas. Jake Tapper was fawning all over him, as other media. Presented his stories like the Oracle of Delphi. Vetting? Nah, not so much.

https://twitter.com/CodyFNfootball/status/472876978861641728

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
53. sigh
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 05:15 PM
Jun 2014

With the exception of a few posters that obviously served and have lived it
this
post
is
full
of
Unmarried Marriage Counsellors

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
58. This confuses me
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 05:48 PM
Jun 2014

As a pacifist I sympathize with Bergdahl. I don't know if he "walked away" as claimed, but if we're offering up witnessing an atrocity as a justification, and war is more or less a continuous atrocity (IMO), does that mean the rules for desertion should be changed for all soldiers?

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
60. I did not attempt an opinion. What we have done as a nation there are facts.
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 05:55 PM
Jun 2014

Are you aware of the other possibilities, the choices other military have chosen as a coping mechanism?

Looking at all the issues is part of who we are as Americans.

When I learned of the torture we were doing, my first response was our country does not torture. But it does, it really does.

Even reading of it is a shock to me as I am a sensitive person.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
62. The military also covered up Bergdahl's history of going on walks (and coming back)
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 06:00 PM
Jun 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014819538

The guys in his platoon knew Bergdahl had a history of heading out for walks.

Now of course THIS walk is "desertion"?

There's been a LOT OF covering up going on with this platoon imho...

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
65. PTSD?
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 06:12 PM
Jun 2014


I'm flashing back on an episode of M*A*S*H where Pierce witnesses a baby being strangled on a bus because his cries might have attracted the enemy. He ended up breaking down in front of the shrink guy.

AnnieBW

(10,424 posts)
69. This is why the Right is smearing him
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 10:00 PM
Jun 2014

When he gets out and tells all, they'll claim that he's unreliable, etc.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
70. Don't know if you missed this Democracy Now Interview with his father....
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 10:09 PM
Jun 2014

It was very interesting. Here's the link and Transcript I posted here on DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025044356

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
72. Surprised to see this post is said to be "taking sides"...
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 11:33 PM
Jun 2014

Actually it was about as much about the horrors our young men have had to endure in these two wars, about the changes in our country which now engages in torture. It is about wondering how in the world our military can heal from seeing such heartless things go on.

It's about how those with different innate qualities cope. There's nothing wrong with being sensitive to wrongdoings.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
73. Ha! Slate captures words of Charlie Daniels before and after on Bergdahl.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:28 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2014/06/04/here_s_how_quickly_conservatives_turned_on_bowe_bergdahl.html



Here's Charlie Daniels—yes, he of "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" fame.

Obama its time to bring Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl home he's been a Taliban prisoner for 4 years Rescue him,it's more important than rescuing G M
— Charlie Daniels (@CharlieDaniels) June 12, 2012

And here he is after the controversy began.

Obama can trade five of the most dangerous men in the world for a soldier who may be a deserter and can't even make a call to save a hero
— Charlie Daniels (@CharlieDaniels) June 3, 2014


Amazing.

More:

Here's the account of Shaughn Adeleye, one of the activists who stung NPR in 2011 by posing as a Muslim Brotherhood ally wanting to invest money for favorable coverage.*

@SenJohnMccain, after 4 Years in captivity in Afghan/Pakistan, let's #BringBoweHome! View Petition http://t.co/EapgRYJT #tcot #lnyhbt #ocra
— Shaughn (@Shaughn_A) December 25, 2012

And here he is this week.

#ObamaComesToTheRescueWhen Deserting "fellow citizens" for the waiting arms of the #Taliban makes no difference. pic.twitter.com/VsFRHp6FzF
— Shaughn (@Shaughn_A) June 2, 2014




 

4Q2u2

(1,406 posts)
77. Second Section is Disingenuous and Mis-leading
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:04 AM
Jun 2014

That second section of the article has nothing to do with Bergdahl. That was not his unit and he never witness any of the "Kill Teams" actions,(BTW they were found guilty and punished severely). So others in this OP are equating one with the other and that is not proper reporting. It is a cover smear that tries to taint your mind into sympathy toward Bergdahl. You are condemning people for hating on him without all of the facts but this author is and you are doing the same thing in the opposite direction. So only Bergdahl saw that child killed, only Bergdahl had a hard deployment. I see lots of others cutting him lots of slack but none to the others that were in the exact same places as him. They quote the RS article as it is Bible to smear all the other troops as screw ups, malcontents and mass murderers in the waiting while they all faced exactly the same situations that Bergdahl did. As far as we know, non of the other members of that unit has even got a ticket for J-walking since that time but we know they are no good some how.
Also pertaining to the RS article, Bergdahl comes off as a terrible Troop that enlisted for all the wrong reasons and probably would not have been deployed but for the fact of the Surge. He looks like a wannabe Tragic Hero that could not wait to get into combat. Anyone looking for War is an asshole that needs to carefully watched for signs of possible mental break down. That is where Bergdahl was definitely failed by his leadership. We also see his emails and it is only from his point of view, a PV1 who had about as much time in the Army to have a cup of coffee, but all of a sudden we are to take his word on these things like he is some kind of Military Expert. Not even close. He is what we used to call a General Private, knew everything and if only he was in charge the Army would be sooooooo much better.
All the Troops involved are neither Hero's nor Villains. Just men, some boys, sent to do a terrible job that lots of others could not or would not do. Sent there by a Government who's civilian population did not control it and thus failed to do it's Civic duty to those men and woman in Uniform. "It was not their War, It was Bushes" You want to know who the real 1% is. That is the percentage of the population that bore the brunt of the fighting

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/opinion/americans-and-their-military-drifting-apart.html
http://www.cohenresearchgroup.com/media/ciav_201006.pdf
The other false info believed even by Vets themselves is that we are tragically damaged and kill ourselves from what we have seen. That is not true. Suicide rate increase among the Military has numerous factors not excluding economic factors as well as previous mental health problems.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/military-suicide-study_n_3719850.html
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130806/NEWS/308060037/New-study-Suicides-not-linked-combat-exposure
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/17/majority-of-military-suicides-never-saw-combat.html

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
78. Blaming suicides in the military on mental illness makes a vulnerable population scapegoats.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:43 AM
Jun 2014

I took a glance at the studies, and they in effect blame all the suicides on those who are mentally ill. They seem to not include that even normal people would be sickened by some of the careless attitudes toward the civilians of other countries. Seems to ignore the horrors of torture and cruelty they saw.

As to the rest of the post I can't respond because it stuns me. You read things into my post that aren't there because of your anger toward Bergdahl.

In fact I presented one case for understanding him. If you note, I gave no opinion. Actually the situation is way too complicated to have one simplistic opinion. A lot of my family are/were military, one was a naval commander. I respect the military, but I also know that in 2003 we had cowboys like Rumsfeld and Bush taking this country to war over lies. Rumsfeld said "stuff happens" and "freedom is untidy", and he let the torture at Abu Graib etc go on.

It sickened even the most mentally well among us.

You said:

" Sent there by a Government who's civilian population did not control it and thus failed to do it's Civic duty to those men and woman in Uniform."

I wish you had known how hard most here at the time of the Iraq invasion fought their government on this. There should have been charges brought against many for lying a nation into a war.

 

4Q2u2

(1,406 posts)
81. Kind of my response to a compilation of responses to the OP
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 02:03 PM
Jun 2014

I have no hatred of Bergdahl, what I did not like was he was being afforded mitigating circumstances but none of his accusers are. They were there all at the same time and place. The only opinion I offered was one that he was a disillusioned PV1 who thought he had all the answers. He did not, and there are thousands of disillusioned PV1's in the Army, and the vast majority know at that point on the ground in hostile territory it is all about the person next to you. That you stay together and work as a unit to get home. IF they do not it is imperative that the leadership instill that. That part is clear that it was not. I do have problems with some of his actions, yes. As a very experienced Service member I know and understand the many layers that civilians do not. Taking any thought of AWOL or Desertion off the table. Him just wanting to go for a walk is a serious breech of safety, unit cohesion, and morale. The Unit was in a far off remote patch of dirt. Even when you are not on watch you still have responsibilities. During an attack each and every member has a primary, a secondary, and a Final Protective Fire position. If an attack occurred while he was outside the wire, he would not be at his appropriate position. Thus compromising the interlocking fire needed to defend their position. That hole in the defense could be exploited to over run the position and costing the lives of all at the FOB. How would you feel about someone that jeopardized your life because they did not want to do their job at the most important time? Now the case is also reversed as well when his unit went out on patrol not properly equipped or in the right frame of mind, so his morale was compromised. Now you have the back round to how a Unit can fall into disarray with failing morale and lack of accountability. That is usually when really bad things happen. Discipline has to be the Back bone of a unit. Not the punch in the nose scream at you type, but one of Professionalism, duty and trust. In that it looks like they were all very undisciplined including Bergdahl. This is the position his accusers are coming from, but one also needs to have a leg to stand on. Not sure if they all do.
As to the incident with the Child being killed by the MRAP. Horrible, Horrible choices are what War is all about, and unfortunately sometimes it comes down to who is more important. People are trying to find a right and wrong in a situation where there is only 2 wrongs. Are the lives of American Soldiers more important to the Army and the American people. The Army almost has to take that position that they are. Troops have to know that Senior leadership believes their lives are thought of and will be protect when and where they can. One of the OP responses even pointed out that this was a tactic employed to kill American Soldiers. Which child in the road is an ambush and which one is just a child in the road? Should we save that child and have a Troop killed? Should we save that child and have that Troops child without a parent now? Is it easier to run over that poor little child or that dirty little Haji in the road?
Maybe it is not racism but a coping mechanism. If Bergdahl deserves the benefit of doubt then they all do.
I know DU was protesting the War. My indictment was more to the silent American populace that let it's Government destroy so much that was sacred.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
79. None of this is new to this or any other war
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:51 AM
Jun 2014

My brother was in the army back in Desert Storm days. He told me many of the guys he served with were little better than criminals. He also witnessed the death of far too many civilians (it was the bodies of women and children that hit him hardest). He came back from that war more depressed and disillusioned than I've ever seen him, before or since. My mother told me later that he was near suicidal. I was living in another state at the time so I didn't see him when he first got back.

He has recovered in the years since but some of the stories he told me were just sickening. Absolutely beyond belief that we could consider ourselves the good guys while allowing our military to get away with unspeakable crimes.

Every time I hear about Bergdahl, I think of my brother. I suspect they have a lot in common.

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