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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnyone other DUers watching D-Day ceremonies
I am fascinated by the way men use religion to cover up the real truth about war - men fighting for power and resources.
I don't know how Great is thy Faithfulness as young men die for no good reason in most wars.
Here come Obama & Hollande - damn Obama is tall.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I'm sure that is not what you meant.
malaise
(268,724 posts)That said many of the 1% supported Hitler.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)But your OP may need an edit to clarify.
As you know, I was one of those who set off to war young and experienced serious physical and psychological consequences.
I hate war, but I know that there are things worth fighting for, and worth dying for. World War II was one. Apart from small-scale humanitarian actions, I'm having trouble finding an example of another...
malaise
(268,724 posts)and he shared your view. Sadly he died in a motor cycle accident in England a few years after the war
TexasTowelie
(111,978 posts)MSNBC has their crack team over there.
malaise
(268,724 posts)so I'm watching Obama on CNN.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Most people are in comparison with Snow White's mate Hollande.
malaise
(268,724 posts)TexasTowelie
(111,978 posts)Then we were told that Eisenhower didn't think it was appropriate in '54, Johnson didn't want to leave the country in '64 and Nixon was about to be impeached in '74.
It was also a tribute to suck up to Peggy Noonan.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)malaise
(268,724 posts)and Tom Brokaw sounds awful. He really isn't well.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)malaise
(268,724 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 6, 2014, 07:34 AM - Edit history (1)
One good friend I lost in Vietnam was Joe Hearne Rufty. It wasn't until 20 years later when I found his family that I learned that Joe was named after his uncle, his father's brother, who died at Anzio in WWII.
Try to wrap your mind around this:
July 21, 1917 - June 2, 1944
KIA Anzio Beach, Italy
Joe Hearne Rufty, Salisbury, NC
February 23, 1945 - January 29, 1970
KIA Thua Thien Province, I Corps, South Vietnam
R.I.P.
I've told my story about Joe here before...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1911231
Edited to add the post from the link above:
(And it's always a pleasure to "bump into" you here. LL. I still remember when we first "met" on that thread... The rest of this post is the kind of stuff that I think you are intimately familiar with. )
All kinds of things can trigger our memories and emotions--even, as the OP notes, things that may have been psychologically suppressed for a long time.
Without being consciously aware of what I was doing, after I lost my Mom I began making peanut butter-and-jelly sandwiches again--even cutting them just the way Mom did when I was a little boy and she was making my bag lunches for school. (Subsequently re-creating Mom's recipe for Hamburger Soup was more of a conscious effort, both as a comfort to me and a remembrance of, and tribute to, her.)
I lost my Dad way back in HS, but it was only many years later, when I caught a whiff of some stranger's Old Spice Aftershave, that I suddenly experienced flashbacks of my Dad. He was an Old Spice guy.
But the most profound experience of this kind that I had came some years after Vietnam. (I know you've heard this before, but I'll re-tell it here.)
When my wife was a nurse at UCLA hospital, we went to a Saturday afternoon party for medical staff at somebody's place in Westwood. I was sitting on the couch when suddenly, from behind me, I heard the sound of a Laugh Box. Tears started pouring down my face, which scared the hell out of me because I had no idea why that was happening.
It was only when I slipped into the bathroom to wash my face that it started coming back to me. Joe Rufty and the fucking Laugh Box.
The day Joe Rufty got hit by machine gun fire and was down with a sucking chest wound nearby, and ground fire was too intense for the Medevac chopper to get in.
I had 36 men in my Infantry platoon, and they volunteered--unanimously--to rappel into the firefight in what certainly would have been a suicidal attempt to take the pressure off so Joe could be extracted. HQ turned us down, and we couldn't have saved Joe anyway.
About a month earlier I'd spent Christmas Day, 1969, on a hilltop out in the jungle with Joe and his platoon. When a chopper delivered supplies and mail, Joe got a package from home with a bottle of whiskey, home-made chocolate chip cookies---and a Laugh Box.
Joe shared the cookies, and the whiskey--making sure everybody got a taste, but only a taste--in case we got some action. As we played cards in a poncho hooch out in the jungle on what Joe's men would come to remember as 'Christmas Hill', every so often someone would hit the button on the laugh box, and we'd all crack up.
Christmas was otherwise uneventful, though we had numerous engagements in the following weeks. During that time, Joe and I had to coordinate by radio, and he would often activate the laugh box over the radio, giving all of us a laugh and a brief respite from the war.
The laugh box, the selflessness of those good, good men I was privileged to serve with, and being so close by yet unable to help Joe (when I knew he would have been there for me if I was down), combined to make Joe's loss more impactful for me than the day I was wounded nine days after Joe died.
It only added to that impact when I found Joe's family 20 years later--and learned he'd been named after an uncle who was KIA at Anzio in WWII.
R.I.P. Mom and Dad, and Joe Hearne Rufty, Panel 14W, line 80.
malaise
(268,724 posts)I remember
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)monmouth3
(3,871 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)Damn, hearing Taps now always makes me weepy. My daddy was a bugler in the war, he used to get out one of his horns and play Taps when my Mother was on a rampage in the middle of the night.
One of our local channels had a special last night to honor the service of veterans, and they highlighted an Honor Flight that took the few left here in wa across the country to see the WWII Memorial. That made me sad, too, but it was nice to see.
malaise
(268,724 posts)Generally I find it haunting.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)that is, if it worked. Until he passed away, I'd always think fondly of him blowing away at her whenever I heard it. Now, I only wish I could hear him play, one more time.
(we all knew the words to it, too, and would sing along with him to drown her out)
malaise
(268,724 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)It was kind of tough hearing it played at my little brother's memorial service a couple of years ago. The Army had sent a couple of NG troops to be there and play the tape. And one of them was a combat vet from the unit my brother and I had served in together in Vietnam, the 101st Airborne Division.
The best thing, though, came after I got up and spoke about my little brother. My talk was humorous, about the good times and the funny times. And at the end I pulled out a 101st Screaming Eagle pin and slapped it down.
The best thing was when my brother's son came up to me afterward and asked if he could have the pin...
countryjake
(8,554 posts)We had the American Legion (I think, can't really remember now which vets group it was) come to play Taps when my daddy was buried. But when the time came, all they did was turn on a boombox, which my mother took as an insult (and actually, us kids were shocked, too). My dad had played at the graveside of every war buddy he had and even for some much younger soldiers that he'd never known, it's what a bugler did.
My brother told me that at our cemetery's annual memorial service that was held just this past Sunday, he went up to the young woman who was holding the horn before the ceremony, to commend and complement her for actually playing Taps for the service. She blushed and told him that she didn't actually know Taps, then she showed him this little gizmo stuck in the bell (looked like a mute) and it was set up to play a recording. He was flabbergasted and I still can't even believe it. (tho, that does seem a bit better than a boom box.)
I remember you telling me about the Screaming Eagle pin and your nephew.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)We actually had a live bugler for Taps, but the tape might have been better.
But the best thing was the kid who kept coming back every single day--MULTIPLE times every day--asking questions.
Young Ethan, who had just turned 9, was jazzed about the military weapons and equipment someone had gotten a permit to display outside but adjacent to the Wall. He also was jazzed about military medals.
Normally I don't talk to kids about weapons or medals but in Ethan's case something told me to be patient and answer all of his questions. And to point out some of the less glamorous sides of military service.
Ethan always came with his dad, but after a few days he brought his mom out to meet me because she had heard so much about me. I think the real reason she came was because she was grateful for anyone who would splash a little cold water on her son's visions of guts and glory.
Toward the end, Ethan gave me a copy of the school report he'd said he was writing about his visits. I shared it with the rest of the Wall Team, and it blew us away. Ethan wrote that the Memorial is often called the Wall that Heals, but he thought it should be called the Wall that Teaches--and that's what he titled his report.
I got a personal kick out of his talking generally about the vets he interviewed, and then saying, at the end, that he also made a new friend--and he named (pinboy3niner).
At the closing ceremony the head of our Wall Team told Ethan's story and announced, with Ethan and his whole family there, that we were making him an Honorary Member of our Wall Team. He was called up to the podium, where I presented him with an AV Wall (the name of this replica) shirt.
The best photo of Ethan and me was taken by the wife of the local Disabled American Veterans Commander in Simi Valley, CA:
Photo by Wendy Calderon
countryjake
(8,554 posts)our future with the past...I love your photo. And your story! I read where you were going with the Wall again somewhere on here a few weeks ago. Little Ethan will carry what he learned from you during those visits for the rest of his life, better than any book or classroom lesson or tv program could ever do.
We've gone to see the replica Wall whenever it comes close to set up here in wa (Moving Wall, I think is what that one's called) and the first time it came to our county, we picked up vets we know to come along for each of the three days. Those were sad days, moving but so very sad. I have five boys to touch on it; my man has three. I can't even describe the effect that Wall had on one of our friends; his life has been so hard and it all began the day he was drafted. But the last time I visited the Wall up here (just a few yrs ago), we went with another friend, brought all of his grandchildren along, and that was an experience we will never forget, ourselves. Witnessing those kids finally come to the realization of what all those names represent, letting them find and then telling them about each of our personal losses, feeling the gravity of it all soak into each and every one of us made the age differences float away. A simple lesson of War.
When I first saw the actual Vietnam Memorial in Washington during the mid-eighties, all I could think of on the trip home was the many people I knew who should get to see it. I cried last night watching that show about the Honor flight taking the WWII vets to see their monument; my daddy would have been delighted to just know that it was there, let alone see it.
Your dedication to bring the Wall that Heals (and teaches!) to those who remember and also to those who should know is noble, pinboy.
malaise
(268,724 posts)The best thing was when my brother's son came up to me afterward and asked if he could have the pin...
Warpy
(111,174 posts)has been true for far too long. The problem is that young men think there is some sort of glory to be had on the battlefield. They don't realize it's horror, misery and death that will haunt their dreams for the rest of their lives, should they live through it.
Modern warfare destroys people who live through it, whether combatants or not. Knowing this and seeing how cynically the government has ginned up support for pointless war after pointless war has left me feeling hopeless that the five sided monstrosity of a building will ever be anything but a black hole into which we pour the fruits of our labor and the lives of our young.
malaise
(268,724 posts)And then those who face war grown up...real fast
lpbk2713
(42,744 posts)The Germans and the Americans at different points in the film alluded to "God is on our side".
malaise
(268,724 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,534 posts)malaise
(268,724 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,534 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)My FIL was veteran of WWII.... Pacific, Africa, Mediteranean, Japan. Navy Fireboat Captain..Medals for Bravery and witnessed the Bikini Atoll nuclear test. He was a wonderful man in so many ways. But, he didn't want his sons to serve in Vietnam...
malaise
(268,724 posts)Tells me all I need to know
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)Wonderfull speech from Hollande.