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WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 10:58 AM Jun 2014

"Men's Rights" and the Septic Tank of History

Last edited Fri Jun 6, 2014, 12:40 PM - Edit history (1)



A peek inside the septic tank. (Image: EL / TO ; Adapted: Soil Science @ NC State / Flickr, Shutterstock)

"Men's Rights" and the Septic Tank of History
By William Rivers Pitt
Truthout | Op-Ed

Friday 06 June 2014

In 1995, several young boys in western Ireland came across something buried beneath a cracked piece of concrete. It turned out to be the septic tank for an old building, demolished decades earlier, that had been known as The Home. Run by the Bon Secours nuns, a Catholic sect, The Home had been, from 1925 to 1961, a place where unwed pregnant Irish women could hide themselves from an astonishingly judgmental society to carry their babies to term, and then flee into whatever new life they could manage to find.

Being unmarried and pregnant in Ireland during this time, you see, was utterly unforgiveable, and dangerous. A fair portion of the reason for this was the fact that Ireland - riven and torn asunder by disputed British rule, IRA warfare and all attendant chaos therein - saw fit to leave a vast swath of social concerns like schooling, orphanages and hospitals in the hands of the Catholic Church...and while the newly-minted Pope Francis has put a broadly-grinning happy face on Catholic doctrine, the fact of the matter is that women took the brunt of the consequences when they were raped and got pregnant, or had sex and got pregnant, because of the Church's ironclad teachings.

The children, also. The nuns charged to care for the children of The Home deliberately ostracized them from the other children in the community, starved them, neglected them, disdained them, because they were the offspring of "fallen" women who had dared to get pregnant outside of the bonds of holy Catholic matrimony. The so-called "sins" of the mother were visited brutally and harshly upon their children.

You see, that septic tank those boys found in 1995 was filled with the bones of some 800 children who had been delivered in The Home. Malnutrition and neglect, measles and tuberculosis and pneumonia, compounded by disgust for the mothers who bore them, laid waste to these children. Their remains were not buried, or burned, or even thrown in a trash heap. They were dropped into a vat of feces and urine, and at the time of this printing, their bones remain there still.

It is difficult to imagine a more egregious example of simple, savage hatred of women than what took place at The Home over those four decades. An unmarried pregnancy was the woman's fault, period, regardless of the circumstances. Pregnant women were sequestered in that cold pile of stone, surrounded by militant Catholics who, I am quite sure, were absolutely against a woman's right to choose abortion, but who hurled the remains of live-birthed babies into a septic tank because the mother's disgrace at getting pregnant out of wedlock was so utterly complete according to the rules of the day that the issue of her pregnancy was deemed to be exactly as worthless as a nun's turd.

But then again, there are today's trans-vaginal ultrasounds that certain GOP lawmakers would require for women seeking abortions. There are the restrictions on birth control remedies being put in place in states all across the country. There are the thousands of women killed by a husband or partner wielding a gun every year. There is the universal GOP resistance to a minimum wage hike, even as two out of every three minimum wage workers is a woman, many of whom are trying to support at least one child.

And then, of course, there is Elliot Rodger, who shot up Santa Barbara the other day because he hated women and sought to exact a measure of vengeance. "I realized that I would be a virgin forever," wrote Rodger in his pre-massacre manifesto, "condemned to suffer rejection and humiliation at the hands of women because they don't fancy me, because their sexual attractions are flawed. They are attracted to the wrong type of male...I will destroy all women because I can never have them. I will make them all suffer for rejecting me...Women should not have the right to choose who to mate with. That choice should be made for them by civilized men of intelligence...Women are like a plague that must be quarantined."

(snip)

Astonishing as it is to fathom, this is a fight that has to be engaged once again. A lot of comfortable people (read: mostly men) believe the rights of women have been settled and established, so we're done, thanks for coming, turn out the lights when you leave. In truth, the rights of women are under assault from multiple directions in multiple states across this nation, and the bad guys are winning.

There are 800 dead babies in Ireland who could tell you all about where this kind of trend invariably winds up: in the septic tank of history.

The rest: http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/24179-william-rivers-pitt-mens-rights-and-the-septic-tank-of-history
62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"Men's Rights" and the Septic Tank of History (Original Post) WilliamPitt Jun 2014 OP
First to Kick and Rec. trumad Jun 2014 #1
Many pluses... maddiemom Jun 2014 #27
It needs to be known, and shown the light of day. NYC_SKP Jun 2014 #2
Yes. And there are still too many women Skidmore Jun 2014 #6
There are still too many women who haven't shaken their patriarchal indoctrination. nt redqueen Jun 2014 #9
Calling to get out the vote in the 2012 election, one woman told me that her husband had not yet dec maddiemom Jun 2014 #28
+1000 theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #33
I say we make them take a hard look at the shit pit... derby378 Jun 2014 #41
K & R. n/t FSogol Jun 2014 #3
K&R nt riderinthestorm Jun 2014 #4
One of my friends libodem Jun 2014 #5
WilliamPitt have you read the response of the Secretary of the Archbishopric? intaglio Jun 2014 #7
Amen. WilliamPitt Jun 2014 #8
Thank you. nt redqueen Jun 2014 #11
+3 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #35
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #10
Yup. Written words are exactly the same as pictures of aborted fetuses. WilliamPitt Jun 2014 #13
How come they always pick the Zappa avatar? JoeyT Jun 2014 #25
Maybe they heard a few of his more vulgar songs and (wrongly) assumed he was a woman-hater nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #36
How is it in poor taste to point out that these women didn't have choices Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #14
I imagine that all 10 of your posts are as ignorant as this one. Maedhros Jun 2014 #16
You need to grow up Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #20
So political child abuse isn't political? Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #24
Excellent passiveporcupine Jun 2014 #12
k and r niyad Jun 2014 #15
k&r Starry Messenger Jun 2014 #17
Something I've been thinking about: Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #18
religion demigoddess Jun 2014 #21
Unfortunately, we've had the scourge of religion for centuries Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #22
When it comes right down to it... theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #42
I can only offer a speculation theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #34
damn good piece of writing demigoddess Jun 2014 #19
I saw the movie that was made in 2002 obama2terms Jun 2014 #59
In recent years demigoddess Jun 2014 #62
Excellent ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #23
For connecting the dots, I thank you. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #26
Men aren't victims....unless they are joeglow3 Jun 2014 #29
what victims do you mean? noiretextatique Jun 2014 #30
+1 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #37
Re-read what I said joeglow3 Jun 2014 #43
well...if you do it in a thread about rape or misogyny noiretextatique Jun 2014 #48
One is labeled an MRA when one uses a single instance to create a false equivalence. Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #49
you mean...one cannot be defensive? noiretextatique Jun 2014 #50
Seems you're conflating together two very different things here. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #39
Thank you, this was beautifully stated Warpy Jun 2014 #31
You said a mouthfull right here = Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #46
Very good work connecting the dots... prairierose Jun 2014 #32
Something I wrote a couple of weeks ago seems sadly apropos now theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #38
It is all connected. And we ignore this at our peril. n/t nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #40
KnR Hekate Jun 2014 #44
Now I don't feel so bad for having written this... Triana Jun 2014 #45
Kaboom. WilliamPitt Jun 2014 #54
No difference, except that Rodger likely has the excuse of mental illness. pnwmom Jun 2014 #58
Kicked and recommended In_The_Wind Jun 2014 #47
This is just such a fucking great article. bravenak Jun 2014 #51
Article so good I joined forum JoyinTorah Jun 2014 #52
My belief is reinforced ... GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #53
Up WilliamPitt Jun 2014 #55
Wow. So it was a sin to have an abortion, but once the baby is born--- SunSeeker Jun 2014 #56
I believe this film is relevant. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #57
Separating the church from the state is the only good answer to so many of the world's problems, mountain grammy Jun 2014 #60
Bravo! K&R nt Zorra Jun 2014 #61
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
2. It needs to be known, and shown the light of day.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:01 AM
Jun 2014

Far too much of what was behind these acts then still exists today.

Recommended.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
6. Yes. And there are still too many women
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

who are willing to engage in the disrespect and shaming of their sisters. I never have understood how a woman could look at an other woman and not understand that so little separates them from experiencing the same ordeal. What a terrible price these little ones and their mothers paid. I'm certain we have our share of similar stories here on US soil.

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
28. Calling to get out the vote in the 2012 election, one woman told me that her husband had not yet dec
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 02:03 PM
Jun 2014

ided how to vote, and she'd always voted the way her father and husband told her. She sounded relatively young. I continue to think of her on and off and am still flabbergasted.

derby378

(30,252 posts)
41. I say we make them take a hard look at the shit pit...
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jun 2014

...and let them see where their complacency will ultimately lead.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
5. One of my friends
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

Daughter played Agnes in 'Agnes of God', it was a nakedly graphic, emotional play.

This is a time to remember and and hold a few moments of silence for these harsh lives snuffed out too soon.

Thanks for the post, Will. Sometimes we can't run and hide from the ugly truth. Sunlight in the sewer.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
7. WilliamPitt have you read the response of the Secretary of the Archbishopric?
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 12:33 PM
Jun 2014

Father Fintan Monaghan said:

“I suppose we can’t really judge the past from our point of view, from our lens. All we can do is mark it appropriately and make sure there is a suitable place here where people can come and remember the babies that died.”

Emer O'Toole in The Guardian's "Comment is Free" section responded:
Let's not judge the past on our morals, then, but on the morals of the time. Was it OK, in mid-20th century Ireland, to throw the bodies of dead children into sewage tanks? Monaghan is really saying: "don't judge the past at all". But we must judge the past, because that is how we learn from it.

Monaghan is correct that we need to mark history appropriately. That's why I am offering the following suggestions as to what the church should do to in response:

Do not say Catholic prayers over these dead children. Don't insult those who were in life despised and abused by you. Instead, tell us where the rest of the bodies are. There were homes throughout Ireland, outrageous child mortality rates in each. Were the Tuam Bon Secours sisters an anomalous, rebellious sect? Or were church practices much the same the country over? If so, how many died in each of these homes? What are their names? Where are their graves? We don't need more platitudinous damage control, but the truth about our history.

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
13. Yup. Written words are exactly the same as pictures of aborted fetuses.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:03 PM
Jun 2014

Thanks for kicking my thread.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
25. How come they always pick the Zappa avatar?
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:41 PM
Jun 2014

Either they love the irony, or they have no idea who it is and think it's a black and white of Hipster Jesus.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
36. Maybe they heard a few of his more vulgar songs and (wrongly) assumed he was a woman-hater
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 03:58 PM
Jun 2014

just like them.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
14. How is it in poor taste to point out that these women didn't have choices
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:03 PM
Jun 2014

and that was a clear reason for these warehouses in the first place?

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
20. You need to grow up
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:26 PM
Jun 2014

or shut up if you don't support women's autonomy over their own bodies.

Did you take a wrong turn somewhere?

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
18. Something I've been thinking about:
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:24 PM
Jun 2014

I am ecstatic that gay people are getting the right to marry (including in my own state, Oregon, just recently). It's such a welcome development. Equal rights for all -- what could be more American?

But as gay rights are on the upswing, more and more women's rights are under assault. It seems odd to me, especially as we are the majority of the population, and still we have so little power in this country, and less all the time, when it comes to our own bodies.

Does anyone have any insight?

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
22. Unfortunately, we've had the scourge of religion for centuries
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:27 PM
Jun 2014

doing its damage to women. I don't see why it should have more power now, especially as the numbers of believers are dropping (albeit too slowly in the USA).

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
42. When it comes right down to it...
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 04:29 PM
Jun 2014

... I think to the religious fanatics it's a matter of numbers. GLBT folk make up a relatively small percentage of the overall population. Women, on the other hand, make up half the world and are seen as the primary threat to power.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
34. I can only offer a speculation
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 03:45 PM
Jun 2014

Too often when people talk of GLBT rights, they're referring primarily to gay men. Conversely, when we're talking about reproduction rights, we're talking solely about women.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
19. damn good piece of writing
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 01:25 PM
Jun 2014

most men (and women,too) don't know this kind of history, just wars and who won.

PS read up on the Magdalene laundries. Run by nuns women were sent there for as little a crime as being too pretty. And you never got out unless a man showed up to claim you in marriage, or a father who wanted you to come back with him to take care of the farm.

obama2terms

(563 posts)
59. I saw the movie that was made in 2002
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:28 AM
Jun 2014

I can't believe that this was allowed to go on for so long, and that the Irish government ( after finally admitting the obvious) admitted they played a big role in running the laundries. Another messed up thing the Irish government did was take children away from single fathers. A man named Desmond Doyle had his six children taken away after his wife left him in 1953 because of a provision in the Children's Act of 1941 prevented a father from caring for his own children in the absence of their mother unless she was living and gave written permission for him to do so. His children went to various orphanages while their dad took the case to the the Irish Supreme Court and won. He finally got his children back in December of 1955. There was a movie made about this in 2002 called "Evelyn" although it's only loosely based on the real case. Boy does the Irish government have some splainin' to do.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
29. Men aren't victims....unless they are
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 02:04 PM
Jun 2014

I compare comments from our President and Vice President the last few years to this. The stock market is at all time highs, unemployment is coming down and the economy is improving. However, as they have said again and again, all this means jack shit to the person who has been unemployed for the last two years.

Likewise, we can all agree that men, as a whole, are not victims. However, to the rare male victim, that means jack shit. And I don't like the way some people try to shame the person speaking out about those victims as "men's rights" loons. It is 100% possible to recognize who face 99.99% of the gender-related abuse AND speak out against 100% of individual cases of abuse.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
30. what victims do you mean?
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 03:00 PM
Jun 2014

Who are these "victims" you speak of? If you are talking about the male victims killed by men's rights loons...I totally agree. If you are talking about the pathetic losers who brag about rape, and encourage each to write manifestos and kill people...not so much. I know there are many male victims, but if you think these "men's rights" loons are among them, I suggest you visit one of their sites and read their misogynistic screeds. They are scary people.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
43. Re-read what I said
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 05:34 PM
Jun 2014

My comment was to the fact that if you bring up a single instance of a male being victimized, you are automatically labeled as a men's right activist by many here.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
48. well...if you do it in a thread about rape or misogyny
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 07:12 PM
Jun 2014
what do you expect. I look forward to your thread about male victimization. This thread is about men's rights loons.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
49. One is labeled an MRA when one uses a single instance to create a false equivalence.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 07:16 PM
Jun 2014

One is labeled an MRA when one cites top level victimization stats without discussing the uncomfortable details like most victimizations of men are committed by men. I could go on.

If one's responses to every thread about men's privilege didn't start with "but men have problems too" then maybe, just maybe, there could be productive discussions here on issues affecting men.


noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
50. you mean...one cannot be defensive?
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 07:23 PM
Jun 2014

Or personalize the issue? Yet some feel privileged to do so. It is sad that DU is indeed a microcosm of America, where nothing that offends power can be discussed without cries of foul.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
39. Seems you're conflating together two very different things here.
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 04:03 PM
Jun 2014

Those who have legitimate grievances against society, on the one hand, and the so-called Men's Rights Activists who spend far more time trashing women than actually helping men, on the other.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
31. Thank you, this was beautifully stated
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 03:15 PM
Jun 2014

and yes, it is all connected, every bit of it. And it's not women's jobs to overcome. Women are only the targets.

And while they're at it, maybe men could take on the rich white men who are oppressing them and trying to blame women and children for it.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
46. You said a mouthfull right here =
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 06:46 PM
Jun 2014
maybe men could take on the rich white men who are oppressing them and trying to blame women and children for it.


theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
38. Something I wrote a couple of weeks ago seems sadly apropos now
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 04:02 PM
Jun 2014

In response to a post about how misogyny manifests itself in daily political life....

Not just daily political life but daily religious life.

In countries around the globe the two often overlap. The fundamentalist influence on politics with regard to women's lives becomes more and more evident every day. When powerful religious leaders preach that women don't even have the right to the autonomy of their own bodies we witness its political effectiveness in the rollback of reproduction rights and the shutting of clinics. These are legislators who use God to justify outrageous levels of misogyny and fashion it into law. These same men who think women have no place in the leadership of the church also believe women have no place as equal partners in the home, the workplace, the country. They know this because the Bible tells them so, at least in their version of it. They've got to preach it in the schools, implement it in the workplace, enforce it in the bedroom, legislate it in the halls of Congress. The following example is just one of the most outrageous examples of how this works: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/16/426850/democratic-women-boycott-issas-contraception-hearing-for-preventing-women-from-testifying/

Some might say I'm straying from the topic here but I disagree. What frustrates me is that there seems to exist either a lack of recognition of or an unwillingness to confront the unholy alliance of church and state in creating a misogynic society. We tiptoe around the subject as to not hurt someone's feelings. Well that's just bullcrap my friends and it's exactly what the purveyors of misogyny count on -- that we'll react well, like "women", not wanting to bruise anyone's delicate ego especially if it involves religion, even to the point of silencing ourselves. Right here on DU there are those who would contend that we have a choice -- we can support the war on poverty OR women's rights. We can fight for environmental protections OR women's rights. Etc, etc, etc. But not both. So women are asked to choose either the planet or their rights, or between the poor and their rights, or between income inequality and their rights. The arguments are posited as a choice for which women must make the sacrifice and too often, some do just that. Anything else is called selfish. I see it all the time on what is touted as a progressive forum. The fact that it should be a choice at all is a ridiculous, manipulative fallacy. It's apparently an effective one because once again I find myself embroiled in just such a debate on DU, watching way too many women fall into that same old trap, rushing to the defense of an avowed and powerful misogynist and homophobe because we must sublimate the cause of our basic human rights to whatever causes supersede them... and that list seems endless. I've got news for some of those folks --as long as we are so willing to make the sacrifice there are those who are more than willing to take it. Our turn will never come if we validate and empower the very people whose aim is to oppress us. Those in power will not grant us respect for being acquiescent; they will only despise us the more for it.

If we want to formulate strategies for how to reform a society shaped by misogynic dogmas that are in turn enforced by legislated policies, we simply must face the fact that patriarchal religions have way too much influence in the political sphere. (That holds true no matter where you go or what you believe.) We can't afford to ignore this elephant in the room, hoping that if we don't make eye contact it will miraculously disappear. The more we hint at any trepidation in confronting this issue the more WOMEN WILL DIE. Not at some point in the distant future -- TODAY, tomorrow, and every tomorrow after that. They will die because too many boys and men are indoctrinated from birth that women are lesser human beings, that women's lives and bodies were created to service their needs, that a woman's value can only be measured by the degree to which she is willing to sacrifice herself on the altar of what we are told is "the greater good".


 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
45. Now I don't feel so bad for having written this...
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 06:42 PM
Jun 2014
"There isn’t a hair’s difference between the misogynist attitudes of Elliot Rodger and those of Republicans. I watched his video. I read his manifesto. ALL 141 pages of it.

His belief about women was that they should be enslaved. Tortured. Killed. That the patriarchy/some man or men should have complete control and dominion over women and that women should have NO choices about whether they have sex or with whom or when, or whether or when they reproduce — that men should decide FOR them.

Look at the legislation these conservative bastards have been passing all over the country."


THE REST:

http://www.sevenbowie.com/2014/05/there-isnt-a-hairs-difference-between-the-misogynist-attitudes-of-elliot-rodger-and-those-of-the-gop/

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
58. No difference, except that Rodger likely has the excuse of mental illness.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:03 AM
Jun 2014

If he was paranoid schizophrenic, he might not have been in control of all his thought processes.

The Rethugs have no such excuse.

JoyinTorah

(4 posts)
52. Article so good I joined forum
Fri Jun 6, 2014, 09:52 PM
Jun 2014

This was a great article, a reminder of the ways patriarchy is enacted on women's bodies, especially our reproductive functions.

Also, Elliot Rodger was no different than your average men's rights whactivist. They all preach the same vile hatred for women and express disdain at the 'American' or 'Western' female.

MRA's blame feminists and women for their personal problems. The scariest thing is these dudes have some money behind them and are now gathering in cities to have 'conferences' to spread this hatred.

Some of the important laws they are looking at destroying or changing revolve around child custody issues.

Everything that comes out of a MRA's mouth is usually severely distorted. You have to research every single thing that comes out of their mouths. They can't read nor can they comprehend. They make incredibly ridiculous statements with links to research that doesn't even support them.

Looking forward to meeting all of you and participating. I monitor these misogynist hate groups on my blog Mancheeze.

mountain grammy

(26,572 posts)
60. Separating the church from the state is the only good answer to so many of the world's problems,
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:29 AM
Jun 2014

and, as we know from the great American experiment, almost impossible. The Bible is the tool that keeps white men in power and they aren't about to let it go until greater numbers of women wise up and smite the sorry asses of the misogynists. We do have them out numbered, now we just have to let them know what that means.

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