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WillParkinson

(16,862 posts)
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:06 AM Jun 2014

I may have lost a 'friend' tonight over Marriage Equality in Wisconsin

Tonight we achieved equality in Wisconsin. Finally. I sent a text to all my friends letting them know. One of them texted me back and we got into a heated text argument (okay, heated for me). He said that the decision was wrong and that it should be up to the people if gays were allowed to marry because it was a vote and that he believed that people had now been educated enough to vote it down, but they weren't given the chance.

I said fine. When do I get to vote on YOUR rights?

He said, "Will, you know I love you and support your marriage because I see how happy you are. I just think that since the last vote, people have been educated on the subject and we don't need corrupt lawyers and judges changing something the people of Wisconsin would have changed themselves."

My reply: "You trust them, I don't. Too many people are swayed by their religion, which has no place in this. Like the new laws they are passing to make it okay not to serve gay people. Add to that the majority of voters is not actually a majority. And what about the people of Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Utah, etc? They might have to wait another five or more years for their rights? Is that okay? And final statement, this is not a democracy, it's a republic. Ideally laws are there to protect minorities against the tyranny of the majority so the less populous group can't have its rights tramped by a larger group. Love you, too."

Five hours later, no reply.

Ah well, such is life.

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I may have lost a 'friend' tonight over Marriage Equality in Wisconsin (Original Post) WillParkinson Jun 2014 OP
Good for your reasoned debate, Will~ Cha Jun 2014 #1
Sorry to hear about your plight. Half-Century Man Jun 2014 #2
Cause letting people vote on others' worked so well before. dballance Jun 2014 #3
And letting men vote on women's suffrage gave women the vote LeftishBrit Jun 2014 #17
I hope your friend reconsiders his position. Jenoch Jun 2014 #4
Yes, Will, such is life, but elleng Jun 2014 #5
your friend is wrong Skittles Jun 2014 #6
Doesn't sound like much of a friend Warpy Jun 2014 #7
In my state , Oregon, the voters once decided that all children must attend a public school. Shrike47 Jun 2014 #8
If the Civil Rights Act smallcat88 Jun 2014 #9
By your friend's logic, the Civil War could have been SheilaT Jun 2014 #10
Send him this picture... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #11
If they are so "educated," why did Scott Walker take office three years ago? pnwmom Jun 2014 #12
They will come around Fearless Jun 2014 #13
a true friend would not be sulking Skittles Jun 2014 #18
Sometimes life is complicated. Fearless Jun 2014 #21
see, no, sometimes it isn't Skittles Jun 2014 #27
Oh I don't mean to say their view wasn't bigoted. Fearless Jun 2014 #29
I agree with you, and am sorry he could not see where you are coming from. I am going to nit pick Zipgun Jun 2014 #14
time could be your friend, Will. Give it time. roguevalley Jun 2014 #15
It's a republic...... DeSwiss Jun 2014 #16
Your strength and courage is quite apparant. I want cntrygrl Jun 2014 #19
first and foremost: YAY!!!!!! PeaceNikki Jun 2014 #20
I love losing friends like that. Iggo Jun 2014 #22
Awesome. Zorra Jun 2014 #23
Let him go. I did this with an old classmate. closeupready Jun 2014 #24
"Ideally laws are there to protect minorities against the tyranny of the majority so the less Zorra Jun 2014 #25
Thank you for this, Zorra... WillParkinson Jun 2014 #26
some bigots are embarrassed when they out themselves, Will Skittles Jun 2014 #28

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
2. Sorry to hear about your plight.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:14 AM
Jun 2014

Give your friend time to assimilate information.
Keep in mind, He has you...the very personal face of marriage equality in his life. That will make his transition somewhat easier.

 

dballance

(5,756 posts)
3. Cause letting people vote on others' worked so well before.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:18 AM
Jun 2014

It certainly got Jim Crow laws repealed, ended segregation and the ban on interracial marriage ended. Except it didn't.

LeftishBrit

(41,202 posts)
17. And letting men vote on women's suffrage gave women the vote
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:22 AM
Jun 2014

Well, in the one place where it was tried, Switzerland, I suppose it did in the end; but 50 years after most otherwise comparable countries (1971).

The public referendum is appropriate for some things, like deciding major constitutional issues; but not for deciding the rights of minorities.

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
4. I hope your friend reconsiders his position.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:23 AM
Jun 2014

A couple of years ago Minnesota had an amendmendment ballot making same-gender marriage illegall. I was afraid it would pass, but it was resoundly defeated, as was the voter ID amendment. I was a little worried about Minnesota turning a little red, but not so, so far.

elleng

(130,724 posts)
5. Yes, Will, such is life, but
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:24 AM
Jun 2014

I'll bet he's feeling sad as you are, and may come back, somehow, sometime.

Warpy

(111,135 posts)
7. Doesn't sound like much of a friend
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:37 AM
Jun 2014

if he thinks his group can vote away any other group's civil rights.

Maybe you made him think and the headache sent him to bed early and he'll return.

Probably not.

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
8. In my state , Oregon, the voters once decided that all children must attend a public school.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:39 AM
Jun 2014

The clear intent of the law was to preclude children attending a religious school or, of course, being home schooled. This was during the 1920's, K K K supported. ( Anti-Catholic). Anyway, voters I acted it and the Supreme Court said no, parents can decide about what school their child attends.

Just because the public passes a law doesn't make it a good thing, or Constitutional.

smallcat88

(426 posts)
9. If the Civil Rights Act
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:53 AM
Jun 2014

had been up for a vote back in the sixties, it wouldn't have passed. The majority is not always right. It usually takes time for people to see the light, especially when they're wrong. It's hard for most of us to admit when we're wrong. Hopefully time will heal your friendship. If not, then he's not such a great friend.

Hang in there.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
10. By your friend's logic, the Civil War could have been
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:01 AM
Jun 2014

avoided if we'd just let each state vote for keeping or eliminating slavery.

Actually, I'm right now re-watching the Ken Burns series on the Civil War, and it's making me understand that as bad as things are today, we're still not in the awfulness of the Civil War and the years leading up to it. And probably the years after, also.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
12. If they are so "educated," why did Scott Walker take office three years ago?
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:14 AM
Jun 2014

And why haven't they overturned the constitutional amendment already?

Here's to lawyers and judges!

P.S.

Here's an article explaining why your friend's solution would take many years to achieve what he says is his goal.

http://theuptake.org/2013/09/04/why-minnesota-succeeded-while-wisconsin-failed-on-marriage-equality/

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
13. They will come around
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:44 AM
Jun 2014

No true friend will let something that doesn't even affect them get between the two of you. Give them time to sulk.

Skittles

(153,111 posts)
27. see, no, sometimes it isn't
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 04:25 PM
Jun 2014

that "friend" is a bigot who simply just got angry enough where he could not stop himself from letting Will know - OMG, the irony - he OUTED himself

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
29. Oh I don't mean to say their view wasn't bigoted.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 06:28 PM
Jun 2014

I just said that they may not lose the friendship over it.

Zipgun

(182 posts)
14. I agree with you, and am sorry he could not see where you are coming from. I am going to nit pick
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:53 AM
Jun 2014

We are not a classical democracy. There is no meaningful distinction between a modern democracy and a modern republic. It is meaningless semantics quibble. There, nit pick over.

It seems like he is starting to open his eyes, thanks in a large part to his being your friend, but still does not see the big picture as to how prejudices can be whipped up and manipulated. Hopefully he will come around.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
16. It's a republic......
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 03:03 AM
Jun 2014

...that claims to have equality under the law.

- So saying that as an excuse or rationale, is pure BS.

K&R

cntrygrl

(356 posts)
19. Your strength and courage is quite apparant. I want
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 08:34 AM
Jun 2014

to thank you for speaking out. I'm a 'life-long' (64 this month) lesbian and know all too well what it's like.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
20. first and foremost: YAY!!!!!!
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:08 AM
Jun 2014

Secondly, I'm so sorry that your friend feels that way and marginalizes the feelings of you and so many. I hope he either comes around and apologizes or at least keeps his mouth shut.

I'm so happy about this ruling. For you, millions of others who deserve equality, society for making this progress and our state which has been pummeled with teabaggery for the past few years.

Yay!! <3

Put that friend aside for a bit and focus on stuff like this http://www.democraticunderground.com/113738312. Pure joy. And thousands of supporters sharing that joy. Donating cake, photography, roaming musicians and LOV E!

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
24. Let him go. I did this with an old classmate.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:18 AM
Jun 2014

Most of my classmates from back in the village are still ignorant and backward Bible thumpers, but I HAVE moved on. The biggest part of why I left the Midwest was the pervasive ignorance and homophobia.

So I've unfriended many of my old friends. What's most sad to me is that THEY haven't grown up. But that's that. "I don't care what you say anymore; this is MY. LIFE. Go ahead with your own life, leave me alone!", to quote Billy Joel.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
25. "Ideally laws are there to protect minorities against the tyranny of the majority so the less
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 11:24 AM
Jun 2014

populous group can't have its rights tramped by a larger group..."


Civil Rights Act of 1964

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) is a landmark piece of civil rights legislation in the United States[4] that outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.[5] It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public (known as "public accommodations&quot .

Powers given to enforce the act were initially weak, but were supplemented during later years. Congress asserted its authority to legislate under several different parts of the United States Constitution, principally its power to regulate interstate commerce under Article One (section 8), its duty to guarantee all citizens equal protection of the laws under the Fourteenth Amendment and its duty to protect voting rights under the Fifteenth Amendment. The Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on July 2, 1964, at the White House.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964





WillParkinson

(16,862 posts)
26. Thank you for this, Zorra...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:27 PM
Jun 2014

Perhaps one day we'll start speaking again and he can be educated. (Hope springs eternal.)

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