Not because i agree. I will not be trolling your thread. Good day!

written it. You and me are twins.

I would say that I loathe the word progressive even as I get why it is used.

I am a liberal. I am a leftie liberal without a shred of hesitation about it. Stereotyping older people is the same as stereotyping any group. Idiot youth who do need to move out of our houses now.

How does that feel, youngsters who do this sort of thing? How about the rest of your stereotype? You are lazy, stupid, selfish.

We could do this for everyone. Don't do it to us. Some of us have scars to prove our bonafides. Where are yours?

I worked hard for Senator Eugene McCarthy for president when I was a college kid still living in California. The death of RFK and then the Chicago Democratic Convention just ripped my guts out.

Nobody should ever try to tell me what journey I've taken or try to co-opt the things I remember. No one should dare to tell me what kind of a Democrat I've been or am. The fact that I admire this President is not a sign of cultish adoration but hard, hard experience of having lived through Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Bush the Elder and Bush the Lesser, as well as the trashing of Jimmy Carter and the entirely unwarranted impeachment of Bill Clinton. I know who the bastards in this political system are, and Barack Obama is not one of them.

Solidarity! Solidarity or we all fail.


Edited to add, since it was so prominently brought up in those other OPs: Yes, I surely am white; my Irish ancestry shows all over my face and freckled hide.

...but maybe that's why I love it. You've done the work. You've got the perspective.

My first real activism efforts were in the Student Coalition for Humphrey/Muskie, and the first (unsuccessful) campaign of Tom Bradley for L.A. Mayor. He lost that one, but came back in the next round to win!

LOVE THIS that you wrote, Hekate!

"Nobody should ever try to tell me what journey I've taken or try to co-opt the things I remember. No one should dare to tell me what kind of a Democrat I've been or am. The fact that I admire this President is not a sign of cultish adoration but hard, hard experience of having lived through Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Bush the Elder and Bush the Lesser, as well as the trashing of Jimmy Carter and the entirely unwarranted impeachment of Bill Clinton. I know who the bastards in this political system are, and Barack Obama is not one of them.

Solidarity! Solidarity or we all fail."

I wrote something along those lines in another thread celebrating the long-awaited arrival of marriage equality in Wisconsin. Looked at all those very moving photos of loving couples who'd yearned to make their commitment to each other official under the law. It was wonderful to see and to savor. HOWEVER, it was with a little trepidation. If some of those people stay home, or roll over and go back to sleep, or assume the problem is now solved and the coast is clear now and this is settled - just look at any woman you see, who's of childbearing age. OUR rights to have the last word over our own personal bodies are ON THE ROPES!!!! Because we figured that once Roe v Wade was settled, that was that.

Well, I fear for all those couples in Wisconsin. How soon will THEIR rights be rolled back and snatched away from them? How soon will they forget and become complacent and just assume that everything's okay now and the enemy is vanquished? How soon will they not bother, and just shrug it off because their "perfect" candidate isn't running but just a pretty good candidate is? How soon will they give up and figure there's no use? How soon will enough people be railing against our President and calling him awful names and goddamn used car salesman and whatever other crap they come up with - WHICH ONLY DISCOURAGES OTHERS FROM GIVING A DAMN AND TRYING TO STAY INVOLVED AND HELPING TO FURTHER THESE CHANGES WE NEED????? That crap only discourages people from bothering, and encourages them to throw up their hands and just assume there's no use.

If you DO NOT stand for the likely nominee, and the candidate with the D after their names, because it might not be the D you wanted, then you might as well pull the lever for the R. Because that's what YOU will personally guarantee that the rest of us get stuck with.

So well said. Thanks to you both.

(I was 4 when JFK was killed. Didn't really get political until shrub, but I was a feminist from a very young age. )

teacher. One of the priests would come over from the church-side to conduct religion class or catechism class, and Father Flanagan took this one particular 5th grade class. And I remember so clearly sitting there quietly as he lectured about the roles of husbands and wives and kids and took questions, and it was like having an out-of-body experience. There was a me who sat there and started getting a little annoyed. I remember looking at him and thinking "hey, Father, how can you possibly weigh in on any of this? You don't have a wife. You don't have kids. You don't have to get a job to support a family. How the heck can you pontificate like this? How can you possibly know what it's like for families and husbands and wives and moms and dads? Since when do YOU get to decide for all of us out here in the secular world? And you're certainly not a woman so you can't be a mom, and you can't get pregnant and have kids, so how can you tell us girls how it's supposed to go? How can you possibly say? How can you possibly know?" I just sat and mulled that one over and over and over in my mind while he was yammering away. It was the first time I realized that THIS was NOT speaking for ME, or to me, either, and that whatever he was decreeing as a kind of civilian "gospel" could NOT be weighed on the same scale with conditions in reality outside the nice insular rectory where he and the other parish priests lived. It struck me that what he said was certainly interesting and curious enough, but could not serve as much of a practical guideline in MY life.

Many years later, I heard another speaker on subjects of Catholic life for the laity reveal that whenever he had questions about something in his marriage or involving his wife and kids, he never sought out the advice of his parish priest. He went down the street to talk to the local rabbi, who had a wife and kids, too. He thought that was a FAR more relevant source of wisdom for him, personally, than consulting a celibate would offer.

who taught our class once a week talking about the importance of husbands, and in later classes, having the nun tell us "you can never tell your husband NO, no matter if you're sick or just don't feel like sex. I'm 71 now, and I still remember those ramblings. from so many years ago. I'm still a Catholic, but I've disagreed with some of their teachings and debasement of women.

BTW, I've always been a Liberal, and still am. When I see some younger folks dissing the oldersters, I just dismiss it as youthful ignorance. Just because there are so many "OLD WHITE MEN" in the vocal part of the pub party doesn't mean that ALL oldsters are even a little bit like them!

but sometimes I want to hit the wall with my head at some of the thing they say and do especially 30-40 years ago.

If I thought marriage was the kind of life so many of the nuns taught, I'd have entered the convent, too!

We were Jewish, but only went to temple on a few occasions. We did do passover with the very few relatives that were around, when I was little.


I came by my feminism because the ads for girls stuff on the kids shows were SOOOOOO insulting. Didn't take long to see that same attitude in other places, everywhere.

Had to steal him.

He's hilarious (he looks like a he to me.... )

thing with the rescue chihuahua. LOL!

You go, girl!

but from NYC. It seems that there are many of us here. To tell you the truth, I haven't been here for a couple of weeks, so I'm going to look for the offending posts before I comment any further.

for Adlai Stevenson. A tie tack. It is so cute. FDR style dem here.

I'm there with you and calimary.

children, would be Madfloridian in my belief.

I can only speak to the conversation in that thread since I have seen it. While MadFlordian is a great poster, I think he took it way too personally.

As for a change in demographics, it has begun to happen and there is no doubt it will help our party. We do need to embrace minorities and consider policies that will help them.

Disclosure: I am also a older white teacher (that is if you think early 40's is old) and I teach abroad.

Actually it wasn't so much that I took it personally.....it's that the posters were saying that "old white men" were holding the party back from being progressive.

That is just not true. I jumped into the fray. They were lying about the rights and the place of seniors here at DU.

I was not referring to the change in demographics, that is happening and a good thing. I am speaking of the rude and insulting posts there toward seniors. It was way out of line.

Sometimes it's time to speak up.

I have some stalking me lately. Alerting does no good. I have to either stop posting a while or take a stand sometimes.

It was the poster here who said that, there was too much ugly stuff from the other threads to copy here. The "lazy stupid foolish" was an opinion here.

I should have known that. I agree there is no reason to be disrespectful of seniors. I hope whomever is stalking you will leave you alone.

It will be six months in a week or so. I had so many distractions and stressors eg
(selling business) and tons of paperwork but now that is almost done. The past few weeks things finally settled down and now I am really feeling it. Taking it hour by hour. <3

I said as the demographics go up in age, the people get more conservative. Especially men. And most especially white men. I based that off of the 2012 exit polls. If you want i can go get a graph and show you. I also said that it is that group who legislates my womb and tries to limit my voting.
She was never ever included in that group. I told her so and explained and apologized for hurting her feelings. She responded with this thread to my apology. I was not disrespectful to her.

bravenak (4,322 posts)
139. I am sorry for that truly.

I am sorry you are hurt by my words and i want you to know that i have never seen you post anything harmful or hurtful to me. We all suffer the sins of others in our nation.
The woman's burden. It's a shame really, white women just barely got the right to vote and own themselves and now we lump them in with their former oppressors. I do feel bad that i hurt you.
I just cannot think of another way to express what i see.

Last edited Sun Jun 8, 2014, 12:56 PM - Edit history (2)

Without people taking it personally. Older white males ARE the GOP demographic...period. That is a fact. It does not mean that ALL white people are horrible. It means the GOP demographic is trying to hold on to its power and privilege...and to hell with everyone else, including white people who do not believe as they do. it is pretty simple.

So frustrating.

And telling...and sad...and frustrating. I applaud and support you

You know I applaud and support you (to borrow from my girl noire) as well. Always will.

This showed me that we have much more work to do than i previously thought. If common knowledge upsets people, and makes them uncomfortable, it is not my fault they feel that way. They should peer outside of their bubble and read black and hispanic and other publications. And see what the youth are talking about and incorporate their ideas into the platform, not just keep waxing nostalgic about what they did in the 60's and pushing that as the only way to do things. We have great ideas if they would just listen and stop trying to do it the old way. It gives some of us flashbacks and nightmares of lunch counters and police dogs. We need to be innovative and think far forward.

people which appears to be becoming more prevalent here on DU, which is shameful imo.

There are old White Men in the Dem Party also, millions of them. WW11 Vets, Korean, Vietnam Vets, my step FIL was one, he voted for Dems all his life, I can only imagine what he would have felt had he seen that post.

Perhaps it might be wise to understand that any kind of broadbrushing of ANY demographic is bigotry.

If someone wants to point out the people in the Republican Party who are holding things back in this country, then it isn't hard to do that without using the phrase 'old white men'.

Clinton is an 'old white man', so is Bernie Sanders and many of our best Dem Members of Congress.

I used to think we Dems who scream so loudly about bigotry, would be the ones to condemn ALL labeling of groups of people.

I know I do not wish to be associated with any political party that places labels on anyone.

It is really shocking to read what is posted on this forum lately and it has hurt a lot of people, good people who are needed to win elections but frankly, I wouldn't blame them if they decided this is not the party for them after reading DU lately.

I am finding that the last two days after all the attacks on me have left me stunned.

I am known here for not being hostile and not attacking people.

But now I see the race card being played.

There is nothing we can say or do, nothing is good enough.

This may have been a turning point for me about politics.

I am taking part as best I can in Crist's campaign, first time I have donated since 2012.

That's about all I intend to do. Being a lifelong Democrat doesn't matter, being kind to others here for 12 years doesn't matter. Cross the wrong people...you might as well leave.

My defense of myself as if it mattered.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5067681

one of the nicest people on DU and the past few days here, seeing these attacks on YOU of all people, has had a profound effect on many of us.

I am used to being attacked here, to being called a liar, and when that got hidden, the word 'dishonest' was used. I am told there are places where people go to 'target' people on DU. I have no idea if that is true or not, but if it is, this is not the place I want to be either.

I saw willy being attacked, many others, good Democrats, mostly like you, people who never attack others here, simply disagree with some of the policies of this administration. THAT appears to be unacceptable to certain people here.

A lot of good Dems HAVE left this forum because they have better things to do and in RL would never waste a minute on people whose only mode of discussion is to attack and label people.

I am deeply sorry for the hurt you have been subjected to. It disgusts me and clearly a majority of DUers.

There is a nastiness here now that equals and even surpasses the nastiness I experienced on a right wing dominated forum during the Bush years, before I discovered Dem forums.

If this is how they think they are going to win, they need to look back at what happened in 2010. People will not tolerate this kind of nastiness from their own party.

I am with you, I have asked if this is the position of the Dem Party now, that they don't want 'old people' or view anyone who disagrees with the President as a 'racist'. I WANT to know the answer to that before doing a single thing more for this party.

All I can say to you is, I am sorry but it IS just a small minority who are on the ignore lists of most DUers, because of their behavior here. But with more good Dems leaving DU, that poster may be right, they will be the majority HERE after everyone else leaves.

Take care and keep up the good work YOU are doing. I will continue to look for tweets on Twitter where you can reach so many more people than here anyhow, and you do.

Not sure if I will continue here or not. But I know I have sort of lost heart about the party. Since I have no one to vote for here anyway except Crist...how I feel doesn't matter to the local party.

But when it say you really matters....no it really doesn't. It's such a large forum, and the loudest are the ones who win...that it really doesn't matter. I'm not loud or catchy or anything like that.

I see some very uncomfortable days ahead here now, just not sure if it's worth it after the year I've had.

here, you cannot disagree with them. And you are wrong, your voice is much more important than theirs, which is why your OP struck such a chord with so many people. The louder they are the less people hear them. But you were heard and appreciated far more than their divisive nonsense which will do nothing other than drive people out of the party, which may be the goal I have often thought.

Take care, I know what you mean about having people to vote FOR. I'm not seeing much where I am either, but I'll wait and see who we get. We have only been here a year so I don't know much about the party here yet.

Take care, and don't let them keep you from being here.

Consists of mostly white and mostly older and mostly male Americans. Is there a way to discuss that reality? It seems not.

and minorities into their party BY discussing it and pointing it out repeatedly.

Dems are not shy generally about talking about bad policies including in our own party. We are now told that doing so when it comes to our party means we are 'racist'. I suppose they think that this will intimidate people into remaining silent about bad policies. Nothing could be further from the truth which if they ARE Dems they should know. It's impossible to silence the left when it comes to issues that are important to them.

Iow, what is happening here is very different from pointing out facts about the Republican Party. It is familiar though. But not expected on a Dem Forum.

This is a statement to the whole board, and not to you sabrina..

This hits a nerve with me.. I am an OLD black woman, and I speak for my Old White husband, and WE are MAD, and have the scars to prove OUR loyalties to the cause of Freedom for ALL..

Why would anyone paint with such a broad brush that the freedoms we have today would not be here unless We fought for those Freedoms when it wasn't fashionable.. We met in the 60's, while we both were fighting the forces of evil during the war protests..

So STOP THE BS about one generation against another, WE must work together to WIN.. If you have a problem with someone or something direct it at those people or things, not an entire group..

You are right, we can not do the generational battles. It will do so much harm. Welcome to DU. I usually post about education problems, so I don't usually get this upset.