to discuss this

he has to be convicted of a crime before he can be pardoned.

most were pardoned during the trial.

The Constitution grants the President the power to Pardon with only one condition, not in cases of impeachment. Otherwise, the person can be pardoned by the President without being charged with any crime.

I don't know what the State where you live has as the limit for Gubernatorial pardons, but the President can pardon anyone, at any time except impeachment.

I don't know if he was AWOL or not. It doesn't appear he gave any kind of aid to the enemy. Even if he was AWOL, 5 years as a POW of the Taliban is more than enough punishment. I don't think any further would accomplish anything.

obviously unless the pentagon has a SSEEERRRIOUS objection.
for the good of the country.
welcome him home.
shut your fucking yap.
no public dissection.

that he objected to being called Sergeant, because he hadn't been before the boards (evaluation board for promotion) yet. I doubt he really wanted to desert, if he is concerned about his proper rank even after all these years. He will probably be found to have gone off base without permission, but intended to come back and was captured.

He was considered a thoughtful guy, who took ballet lessons, and tried a lot of different things to get perspective on life. He came from a small town, and no doubt joined the military after working at a gun range and becoming interested in that lifestyle.

He was different, and may have felt ostracized or didn't fit into the life at war. I think he was naive... and not all new soldiers can ever fully buy into the disconnection from your former life that you have to do in order to fit into a war zone.

He wandered away, but I doubt he went to find the Taliban so he could join up. He was captured when they came upon him, and he was beaten and put into a cage when he tried to escape. He dug a trench with his hands to hide from them, and they found him an brought him back. His health was failing, and he was in danger of being killed.

He and his father are being made to be horrible people, and many on the right have even called for their execution. All before the facts have come out. It's a disgraceful time in our history as Americans. We don't leave our troops behind... I hope that they are able to come up with a resolution that does not make him the political scapegoat that the right is turning him into.

Dudes who spent two years in the Air Force stateside are very, very annoyed at Sgt Bergdahl.

who think they have something to say

or the best interests of the Democrati party for President Obama to meet with Bowe Bergdahl. At the very least, it would appear hiw punishment will be a dishonorable discharge.

his mentor, abe lincoln, pardoned deserters, saying that it was the poorest use of a soldier to shoot him.

this young man needs the kleig lights turned off, and the pres might just be sick enough of it all to draw a line in the sand.
and fuck all the best interests of the party.

That is premature.

sympathetic now that he is claiming to have been tortured? Sure he is more sympathetic. I believe President Obama should have done this low-key rather than trying to make political gains from it. It turned into a political shitstorm when it did not need to be. Jt couls have been a political positive if handled differently.

You know what is sad? I expected him to have suffered torture and worst. This was not in the bit surprising.

It is not about sympathetic, though that helps... I guess you either get it or you don't. and having served actually helps to get it.

Bergdahl was a combination of an idealist and a Rambo wannabe. He left his base more than once, and eventually was captured. He was kept for about five years. He may or may have not been tortured. He may or may not have revealed military tactictal information. His rations were cut last year so his captors could make a video of him not looking to healthy in order to get high valued Taliban prisoners in exchange for him, and it all worked.

What part am I not getting?

Berghdahl witnessed war crimes. You think that will stay off a court martial? You are that naive?

I did not see where you earlier indicated that the Army will put this to bed. I also did not write anything contrary to that.

where his unit is specifically referred as a well known KILL TEAM.

You are indeed that naive. So with that, I will say my goodbyes. I prefer not to engage walls. Suffice it to say, I suspect you have never served... so the obviously there is something wrong the army really does not want exposed here, is not that obvious to you. To those of us who have, even not in the US Military, it is obvious.

Have a good day, consider this my last on this matter with you. That saying about pigs and mud come to mind, and I really do not want to please a pig.

So it's ok now to call fellow DUers pigs?

You believe only people who have served can post their opinions on this thread?

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

Oh and welcome to my ignore list... now we add to the list anti intellectualism.

They could summon him up to Capitol Hill, and he wouldn't have any Fifth Amendment rights to refuse to testify.

Stick it to them right in their faces and let them know some people shouldn't be dragged through the mud.

Shame all these inquisitor-minded two-faced judgmentalists out in the open.

with a crime before admitting his guilt and asking for a pardon?

Oops, I forgot the Repug model of pardons before charges, let alone convictions. Makes no sense to me still.

The only limit on Presidential Pardons is impeachment. There is no requirement for arrest, indictment, conviction, or minimum sentence served.

I speak as someone who wishes the President would pardon a lot more people. He has the power of forgiveness, and nothing could be more moral.

The President has the power to pardon anyone of any Federal Crime before they are charged. There is one limit only, impeachment.

Politically that might be a problem, but there is a faction that blames the President if a baseball game is rained out. You're never going to make them happy.

I mentioned before that a friend asked me what I'd do on day one in the White House if I was President. I told him I'd pardon everyone who had been arrested, charged, or convicted of Marijuana related crimes. All crimes would be forgiven, as long as Marijuana was one of the charges or convictions. He laughed and asked what I'd do the next week when Congress impeached me. I pointed out what I'm telling you now, the President has the power, and no one can place a limit on the powers enumerated within the Constitution without an Amendment.

Nobody even knows what really happened yet. But, yes, the republicans are carrying on yet another one of their charades. Hopefully, more people will start catching onto it soon.

would not bring a sentence longer than time served.
let the man go with a clean slate, and a nations thanks.

Until then, any talk of pardons insinuates that he is guilty of those accusations.

and a hale and farewell.

like i said, i would pin a medal on him on the way out.

for crimes he may or may not have committed, crimes real or imagined.

just stop right now.

Given President Obama's record of very stingy use of his presidential pardon power, I wouldn't hold my breath.

i kid you not.
starting off at 5:1, which i think the naysayers will find to attractive to pass up.

when he walked away, if he did, HAD to be tied to him seeing something that was NOT right, something he could NOT abide by...

What did he see, why was he disenchanted with our actions there?

I think that will be the question once the crybaby american taliban terrorist teaparty shuts up...

If he went AWOl or deserted he has to answer for that.

But we need to find out what really happened.

that's my point. he has already been punished far in excess of his crimes.
in fact, i will be shocked if the pentagon wants to try this man. i'm sure they would be just as happy to have the whole thing just smothered in the cradle.
for once that would be a good thing.

and let them rant. let them show themselves for all the world, and all our veterans to see.

chew on that one.

This will quietly die...

Maybe, Obama could practice by pardoning Chelsea Manning.

just like nixon.

i think they would have to give him another peace prize for it, but i would love to see a whole lot of cell doors fly open when the man walks on. and i am srsly betting that they will.

End of story.

to prison. They aren't going to take a guy who lived off and on in a cage being tortured and put him back in what amounts to a cage, even if he's convicted of desertion. They'll most likely deal with him with things like dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay, prison sentence satisifed with time served as a POW, some kind of community service deal. It may not even come to that.

care to tell me how long he's already spent in confinement?

The worst they will do, assuming there is cause, is a general discharge.

I am betting on an honorable, with back pay, and his POW medal

noted

Discharge, medical, back pay, POW medal, put to bed

i would accept that.
but this tar and feathering MUST stop.

He is not fit to stay in the army, but the rest of what is going is nuts.

So give him his discharge and let it go. (Of course, after the kind of extended psychiatric we owe him as a nation)

while the lynch mob gathers outside his room?
he may not be aware, but his family certainly is.

as you can see from this thread, the lies will never die. the bs from the keyboard commandos will never die.
might as well just protect this family, and fuck the rest of them.

I will not be too shocked if the whole family leaves the US. And yes, the 101st Chairborne is fully out.

step on them like the bugs they are.
they will be howling into their echo chamber no matter what happens. who fucking cares.

pardon the family, if you get my drift.

repeat after me.
for the good of the country, to stop this division, i want the full richard nixon.

Which I don't think can be established, and a big fat chicken dinner. (Dishonorable discharge)

It has very clear legal consequences.

The chairborne has to be laughed, and made fun off, but a pardon is not the way

ford headed them off then. we should head them off now.

and besides, the pentagon has the file. they know what he is really accused of. i wouldnt be so nuts as to think he would do it over the heads of the fruit salad.

it goes like this-
we have no evidence of a crime. even if there was a crime, which we have no evidence of, this young many has been punished enough.
we will stop this right here, just declare him innocent, honorable discharge, full bennies, give him a medal, if you ask me, and end the whole thing.

if it dies quietly for him, it never ends for his parents.

And Nixon was guilty. We just did not bother with the trial. The acceptance of the pardon is acceptance of guilt. You really need to read into what it means. It does have legal consequences.

I still can't get my mind around that one. They were making death threats to his hometown for making plans to celebrate his release. Could it really be that we have millions of fully brainwashed people walking around in America?

He not only fought as a soldier for our country, he served as a conscience for our country.

The whole "desertion" story is pure bullshit concocted by right-wing shitbags to demonize him because it was that black President Obama that secured his release, when just a few weeks ago, they were lionizing him, so they could blame that black President for failing to secure his release.

it implies that everyone involved should be sheltered from here on out.

there would be no legit point to any more carrying on.
they are stripped of their cloak of legitimacy.

are. They do imply admission of guilt for starters.

i would accept- pentagon says we will bring no charges, based on the evidence we have.
considering what he has been through, we are not even sure we can accept his testimony as untainted by duress and torture after he has substantially recovered. so, we have decided to let him tell his story to his shrinks, and leave it behind those sacred doors.
hows that?

Partly for very self serving reasons.

That is not a pardon, incidentally.

I think you need to take your ill-advised idea for a pardon and back away.

If he really wandered off then he needs to pay for the time, resources and potentially, the lives expended because of that choice.

It also would set a terrible precedent.

If he didn't then send him on his way with all the help he deserves...

no such thing has EVER happened. you are out in the out there.

... I expect the truth will come out either way. I don't think it's there yet.

Even if you assume that no lives were lost...

It is still unacceptable to wander away from your military duties. The Idea that he has been punished enough is silly.

If a Joe runs off in the states to Mexico and runs into the Zetas, he is still on the hook for desertion / AWOL. The fact that it was in an active war zone makes it worse.

All of this is dependent on the desertion story being true. I would be much happier if it weren't.

If it is though the message has to be 100% clear.

Throwing down your rifle and taking off because you 'don't feel like it anymore' will result in significant and lasting penalties.

There are ways to get out through legal means.

Last edited Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I think we'll figure out if he wandered off in search of adventure or if he was legitimately snatched due to no fault of his own.

Attributed deaths are too open to those with an agenda perhaps.

How do you even pronounce it? Is it 'Boh'? 'Bow'? 'Boo-ee'? It's too complicated to figure out!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

"Official" Tillman reports ring any bells ?
I feel for the guys that died and their families, believing they were searching for a brother in arms. Fuck Bergdahl, and his parents.

cut and paste "Official US reports", I will continue to not care. Fuck Bergdahl, and Fuck him hard.

You must be very proud of yourself.

Pardoning him, first and foremost, is an acknowledgement that he did something wrong. If Obama did that, then he'd be effectively admitting that Bergdahl deserted (whether that's true or not).

Furthermore, if you think the shitstorm is bad now, it will look like freaking Armageddon if Obama did that pre-emptively. The meltdown would be absolutely beyond belief. November will be an absolute BLOODBATH if he did that. We're talking veto-proof R majorities in both houses. If this goes to an Article 32 hearing, and comes out of such a hearing for a court-martial, then maybe it's time to step in, But right now, pardoning him pre-emptively is signing a political death warrant. His Presidency is utterly and completely over before the ink dries on the pardon.

The best thing that Obama can do at this point is let this play out. That will allow him, no matter what happens, to say in the end that he "let justice take its course."

Bear ye in mind that IF this goes to an Article 32 hearing and subsequently to a court-martial, we're talking a year at a bare minimum before the court-martial is gaveled in. Probably more. What was it? Two years between arrest and sentencing for (then) Bradley Manning? And the likelihood is that during that time, Bergdahl would be free, not held in pre-trial confinement. If Obama pardons Bergdahl on his way out the door in January of 2016, then nobody really cares because all Presidents send off a flurry of pardons as they leave.

Preemptive pardon. lol.

Way to rush to judgment.

He's an innocent man--why do you want to throw a "pardon" at him, like you're assuming he's done anything wrong?

The military has procedures in place for a reason. Let them play out.

That kind of crap is NOT helpful. Your post basically insinuates that you think he is guilty of something but you believe that extenuating circumstances make him deserving of a "pardon."

Again--he's an innocent man.

Stop accusing him of crimes not proven, and demanding forgiveness for them.

You're not doing him any favors.

but legally, what it really is is not a statement of forgiveness.
it is a statement of innocence.
there is no need to mistakenly declare a man guilty just to proclaim him innocent.

he can proclaim him innocent right now and end this.