For everything.

As for Manny, he probably gets it but doesn't want it.

I don't think it is. Did you read it?

Can he walk a mile in your shoes?

Can he even try to understand?

Can he spell *deliberately obtuse*

So tired of having to hold this remedial class after hours, aren't you?

I think he wanted some attention and he got it and is happy now. We'll see him again and he probably won't read the article next time either.

Well he voted for Reagan in 1980 - so I guess he should apologize for voting in the Southern Strategy and ignoring St. Ronnies words in 1976 in Mississippi where you and me (you weren't even born yet ) were painted as welfare queens in Cadillacs takin' sum'thin from some'un!

We should hold his feet to the fire for answers. I hope he stops by and explains it to us one day.

perfectly illustrated the OP's point, you've perfectly illuminated your character.

Just a thought. In my experience, people who have genuine regrets try to do something to make amends.

The KKK became fairly powerful as they set off bombs and burned crosses against the growing ethnic group in Maine, the French Catholics (there were few blacks to suppress in white bread Maine). Eventually things settled down and then, years later, in the 1980s, the KKK had a resurgence as they targeted black immigrants. One of the groups from which members passionately joined the KKK in that second round were the French Catholics.
Be careful lest you become what you hate.

succinctly put.

with that B.S., you are on the same page as Matt K. Lewis of The Daily Caller ... the guy that was honor by the American Conservative Union as CPAC "Blogger of the Year."

Are you comfortable in that space? {Rhetorical Question}

When one poses as something they're not, the mask occasionally slips.

based on his fan club Rec count ... He's pretty comfort here on DU, as well.

is made up of useful idiots who actually believe he's a liberal.

But of course there are some who know the truth, but continue to play along anyways.

Useful idiots, i.e., left leaning folks that hate President Obama and unwilling to admit why ... so "it's his policies", just like manny says; but can't/won't ask themselves why Bernie and Elizabeth, who consistently support and vote for those same policies, are untainted, per manny.

I guess if I were a similarly conflicted liberal, I wouldn't question it, either ... it might lead me to answers that I do not answered.

Looks delicious...

Nice allusion.



-Laelth

I suppose it's easy to confuse "the point" with "for everything."

Easy mistake to make when the sound of "whoosh" prevents us from a rational interpretation.

Then i just looked around and this one spoke to me. Hopefully people will read it and take it to heart.

but your voice and POV is important. Your life experiences are different from mine as well as other DUers, and we can learn much from hearing you. We don't learn much if we are in an echo chamber or if we fail to take the time to relate to people who express a different POV.

btw, this old white lady feels the same as you about the old white men who run too many things. It has been true all my life...it needs to end during yours. I am not advocating killing them off or grave dancing as the older folks die, just expressing the desire to see women and minorities take their place running things.

I just want them to learn to share and that their needs are not the only ones we should focus on. Everyone else has gotten left behind. And now that they feel the pinch they want to concentrate solely on class issues, but i say we need to do the race stuff at the same time. Not just scream race card whenever issues are brought up.

People are using excuses to avoid subjects that make them uncomfortable.

I don't recall too many liberal white guys bellyaching about this:

First, I wouldn't dress with a cheesy patriotic fabric. Teabaggers think they're making a political statement and looking patriotic. Bullshit, there's nothing patriotic about hate.

Second, I never, make such a hateful, hostile face, particularly with that open mouthed yelling. Just imagine the coarseness you'd expect to issue out of that mouth. Hate is not interesting, nor is any help, and that is a hate group.

Third, I can spell and don't wave around signs. Might as well have a Fox News icon tatooed on their foreheads. They hav no original thoughts, just stupid, repeated slogans.

Fourth, I am aware of the issue of making all people talk and act and look the same, and don't approve. We don't have a national language because it isn't needed. The language of most of business, science and other enterprises at this time on Planet Earth is English. It's not endangered. Quit the hysteria.

Fifth, I have better uses of my time than to prate about things that mean nothing. These are simply th arguments of egotism. The baggers have the luxury of first amendent rights and the right to protest in public but this is what they do with their rights, hate on others instead of anything positive.

why insist on wearing it?" and then just refuse to repeat all the assurances we have been giving for eleventy seven threads to those who demand apologies and retractions because it doesn't apply to them?

PLEEEEEEEEZZZZZEEEE?????

Loved every word.

Knock it out of the ballpark!

there was an unfair bias against everyone except older white men - that's how they accumulated the privileges they now own.

belly aching white folk need to just stfu about how hard done by they are. Paint up brown or black and live like a non-white person for a month or so then report back.

That sentence speaks volumes.

I forgot to add women.

in this world to that of a woman of color being doubly oppressed. I stand with you Bravenak! Old White men are whiners!

Never back down....just fight on!

I'm oppressing the whole thing now, so i demand that all men on DU send me money now, so that i may buy tools of oppression.
Imaging having to read posts that make you uncomfortable? It must hurt so much to hear an honest opinion about a group you identify with when you are the group in power. I bet some felt like they were lumped in with people who are despicable.

I feel like that everyday. All day. In Walmart. At the mall. At work. In the car. Listening to talk radio. And even reading certain things here about black men leaving their families and the women not knowing how to use birth control and having too many babies. And the Trayvon threads. And Jordan.
And the dudes who like to whip out black on white crime stats out of nowhere.

you troublemaker, you. Keep agitating! And I'll join you. The level of pushback needed is depressing sometimes.

I know i have explained my pov to certain people many many times. Then they act brand new the next day. Deliberately obtuse some might say.

One group really is wilfully ignorant and does not take any information in which does not fit into their own worldview. The other group is made up of people who manipulate information and feedback given them to support an established agenda on their part. Neither one of these groups are interested in discourse or entertaining other points of view. It becomes really frustrating when you consider how hard some of the elements of our political system have worked to shut it all down by making this sort of thing systemic.

Our exchange yesterday was not about whether or not it is "legitimate" to bring up the subject of race, etc.

It was the dismissiveness of an entire demographic group (and the tendency of some to assume that criticisms of President Obama always have a racial undercurrent). This approach is a mirror image of what the GOP does in reverse. Divide and conqueror.

If one is trying to change social attitudes and oppressive social systems, it is important to first recognize that demographic groups are not monolithic. Society is a collection of individuals, who have a wide range of attitudes, levels of awareness and motivations. That also applies to demographic groups whose collective actions and attitudes one might collectively consider to be victimizers as well as those who have suffered because of that.

President Obama himself recognizes these complexities, and has addressed it, such as in his great speech during the campaign when he was attacked for his affiliations with Rev. Wright.

Any effort to change oppressive attitudes, behavior and policies -- and the systems that result -- has to accept people on their own terms as a starting point. Being accusatory and/or telling people they have to instantly transform themselves to fall into a certain mold of thought and behavior only alienates people, including those who are inherently sympathetic. It is no different than white people telling black people that they have to become white to raise themselves up.

And, in a larger sense, it requires a recognition that to lift everyone up requires lifting everyone up, and focusing on the systemic institutional problems and economic systems that are much larger and oppressive to the majority, regardless of color, ethnic background and gender.

For example, in the 18th to mid-20th Century, Britain was a colonial empire that subjugated, exploited and did some awful things to the "colonies" they acquired and ruled over.

It's fair to say, that the British Empire did a lot of damage and colonialism was a fundamentally bad system. However, it would be wrongheaded to say that the British people were by extension, all guilty of being members of a Colonial Empire and were terrible exploiters individually

In fact, many British citizens were exploited and abused themselves (read Charles Dickens)....Or were at least not part off the problem and included people who supported reforms to the system (Or would have if they had the knowledge of the realities of colonialism, and access to a larger reform movement).

Therefore it is a totally inaccurate generalization to say that if a person was British automatically meant they were part of the system of exploitation and abuse, and was therefore guilty of the evils inflicted by the British Empire. In fact, it was a larger system that was put into place and run by a particular segment of the population of Britain.

It is not much different than using a broad brush to portray everyone who is white, and especially of a certain age group, as being the cause of current problems.

It is a complex issue with a lot of nuances. There were (and are) people who had (have) widely differing shades of opinion and levels of knowledge about the realities of the system, which also shapes their role and opinion of it. There were people in Britain who had a sense of patriotism and pride in the Empire, for example, who did not necessarily know about the actual facts of what that really meant.

There are hard-nosed racists and sexists. There are also well meaning people who may behave or think in ways that are racist or sexist, but not because of bad intent. It is more a matter of lack of knowledge and awareness.

Telling people that progress will only be made when their demographic group becomes insignificant and/or dies off is not the way to gain their support for solving and rectifying legitimate grievances.

I have no filter. I think it may be a good thing.

fairly...

And when a Black woman like you speaks up, for example, it frightens them because to compete on an actual level playing field is something they have never been required to do before.



The day you stop talking about this is the day I give up, for real.

[link:

I pick thing up pretty fast and i am awesome. I am getting the tone argument quite a bit.

Yes, you are.

I will keep letting everyone know.

You remind me of my mother. Rest her soul. You two are utterly fearless, powerful and relentless. I made the mistake of pissing her off once or twice. BIG mistake. I hope I don't make that mistake with you.

But i'll remember forever.
Thank you for that. That was a sweet thing to say .

You should do it if you mean me.

I don't fight it useful to talk trash about different demographic groups.

"I have a friend who told me the problem with young black guys is..."

We need time. We have already won.

You have no content, only attitude. Sneering disdain for anyone who doesn't take your ultra positions. Good luck with that.

okay. I think that content is readily apparent. No disdain. No 'ultra position". Just truth you can't handle. Simple as that. Always about "attitude" because it's not deferential enough and can't be controlled. Dealt with that word my whole life and thank god I had "attitude". Controlling truthful, uncomfortable dialog doesn't work anymore, anyplace, anytime. Never again!