What were owners thinking? You'd never see a feral cat opting for a non-prey diet. They get all the grains & greens they need from eating the stomach contents of other animals.

But also cruel. That poor kitten was literally starving to death.

I hope the owners act responsibly, either by feeding the cat meat or by giving him to a more loving home.

I'd be surprised if true carnivores, such as cats and walruses, needed grains and greens at all.

Just because these idiots didn't know how to take care of their cat does not mean cats can't be vegan. It just means means that the cat's humans (hate the term owners) just need to be careful and pay attention and know what they're doing.

called Vegecat. I haven't used it, but as a vegetarian I do often feel guilty and hypocritical feeding standard cat food to my cats.

Cats don't have a say in the matter. They don't get to choose. It's not natural for them.

Although we Brits beg to differ

in the cupboard. I'm working up the courage to try it.

It goes a long way.
We ate it on bread as kids and thoroughly enjoyed it, but it can 'burn' if you take too much on your tongue until you are used to it.

1/10th of teaspoon on a slice of bread is probably too much for a first time.

Most people call it tuna.

Cecisum-134, Cesium-137 and of course the regular ol' mercury from the old days.

'obligate carnivore' doesn't leave a lot of room for 'vegan'.

(Edit: Yet I will say, there do seem to be a lot of links to supposedly vegan cat food products.)

(Second edit: ok, it looks like you can get taurine from algae. Hadn't been aware of that one, so I guess it's possible the 'vegan' supplements actually could be vegan, and not made from animal tissue somewhere along the line.)

and most of the supplements that a cat would need are derived from animal products. attempting to force a morally driven construct of veganism onto a true carnivore is beyond irresponsible. don't want your pets to eat animal products, then fucking get one that was designed to not eat meat...

sP

Bad enough to have to deal with climate deniers.

But to force felines into vegetarianism based on ideology?

That's just nuts.

There's an epidemic of diabetes in cats, and I wouldn't be surprised if it stems from the fact that many commercial foods are grain or soy-based. I could see the chances of a cat becoming diabetic increasing on a vegan or vegetarian diet, even with a taurine supplement. You're right, Xipe Totec, it's nuts.

Pets, both dogs but most especially cats are not meant to eat grains of any kind. It makes them ill and leads to a host of diseases that have never been seen before, including diabetes.

food has lots of grain in it, especially the dry food. Grain-free dry food is expensive. Lots of people are feeding their cats semi-vegetarian food without realizing it.

Often the protein comes from bone meal or leftovers from sick/dying animals. Read anything on the pet food industry and it will make you sick.

They figured out they could market the crap in their product just like they do to people so you see a lot of "healthy grains" or "fruit and vegetables". Animals don't need that. The best and most inexpensive way to feed your pets is actually a raw diet. There are many raw food co-ops here in LA to get what you need very cheaply. It takes work but saves infinitely more than vet bills. The designer grain-free foods are easier, but yes, very expensive.

When we adopted a kitten (I know she wasn't a shelter cat but we had no intention of getting another one on that trip to the vet; she was just too cute with her poly toes and she crawled right up into my arms. It had to be done.) it was during a trip to the vet for our older cat. Before I met my wife, she had been feeding him Fancy Feast. When he was 12, he really started to go downhill so we took him in for a checkup.

Well, when we got the kitten I told my wife we should get them both on better food. The vet recommended we go grain free. So I read about it and yeah, it looked good.

Four years on, the older cat is spry again (if a bit rickety) and has no more health issues. The kitten, now a full grown cat, is one of the most amazingly beautiful calicoes ever! Her fur is glossy and shines in the sunlight! Soft and silky to the touch.

So yeah, food matters. This experience made a believer out of me.

(We are currently feeding them Canidae PURE Sea for Cats.)

Easily one of the most mind numbing posts I've read on DU in a long time.

Don't know who's being "had" here, but it may easily be everyone who even bothered to follow the thread. Color me a sucker.

and they require animal proteins, not plant proteins, to be healthy. This is SCIENCE, not opinion. Cats are not just carnivores, like dogs, they are OBLIGATE carnivores: because their guts are short, they do not have the ability to digest and utilize the nutrients in plants materials. They need taurine to thrive--found primarily in the muscle meat of animals.

Cats are obligate carnivores and are very different from dogs-and people-in their nutritional needs. What does it mean to be an obligate carnivore? It means that cats are strict carnivores that rely on nutrients in animal tissue to meet their specific nutritional requirements. In their natural habitat, cats are hunters that consume prey high in protein with moderate amounts of fat and minimal amounts of carbohydrates. Cats also require more than a dozen nutrients, including vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, and amino acids. These nutrients are the building blocks of various structural body tissues; are essential for chemical reactions (metabolism, catabolism); transport substances into, around, and out of the body; supply energy for growth and maintenance; and provide palatability.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/FHC/health_resources/FeedYourCat.cfm

My cat was on a demand/dry food diet and gained a ton of weight, but was always hungry. When he came down with diabetes (requiring 2 insulin shots per day) I did my research and learned about cats' digestive systems, particularly their short guts. Basically, because their guts are too short to digest the dry/primarily grain food, they always feel hungry, so keep eating. That means they keep gaining weight. I switched him to a new diet - NO dry food at all and high protein/no grain wet food - Fancy Feast's "classic" line fits the bill - meat, meat broth, liver, fish, meat by-products and all the supplements cats need. Also some people-tuna for an occasional treat, and the 1st level of baby food (recommended by my vet) which is only meat (chicken, turkey, beef or ham) pureed with a light gravy (source of necessary fat).

I also learned that cats' pancreases can regenerate. I monitored his blood sugar and the vet and I slowly reduced his insulin as the blood sugar levels improved. Took about a year but got him off insulin completely. He got back to a very healthy weight, gradually, during that year and became much more lively and so playful. He was already an old cat but he lasted another 3 years - happy as a kitten.

The cat food folks are slowly getting the message that smart cat owners have learned these leafy greens/grain based dry foods are bad for cats - particularly indoor cats who get very limited exercise, and are starting to offer dry foods with much lower grain content - but you have to search for them & read the labels carefully.

my 13 yr old cat lost most of her teeth after being fed a diet of dry 'naturals' food. so i switched to wet 'classic' and she has never been happier.

it's that superiority thinking some folks are prone to regarding their personal lifestyle choices, failing to realize that what works for them is not necessarily the best choice for another living being.

Carnivores can't be vegan.

....yet have found a way to impose your will on the cat that goes against it's very nature.

* Translated from Meowish

It seems to be more of a problem with male cats, because their urinary tracts are more prone to crystals and blockages.

What exactly is the point of posting this other than to generate ill will towards vegans. I'm both a vegan and a cat owner (the universe in its wisdom keeps sending them to me) and I, like most of the other vegans out there, know they need meat, or at least the meat like byproducts that are in their kibble.

Have an animal partner more amenable to their lifestyle.

There are plenty of animals who are true vegans that they would not need to force the diet onto a cat.

Kind of like, you can love horses, yet understand that you don't have room for one in a 2 bedroom apartment.

That unmistakable odor of the classic Alpo fart.

The Gravy Train fart is also a classic.

My pup eats raw meat/bones instead of "dog food" The best part is that the poop doesn't smell and is dry...disintegrating into powder. He also gets veggie treats ( especially carrots).

If somebody wants a vegan pet, they should get a fucking rabbit. Cats have millions of years of evolution making them carnivores.

People who put their so called dietary values on their animal pets are cruel and do not deserve the company of the pet.

Cats are carnivores!!!!! It is cruel to raise them any other way.

Disgusted by these utter idiots and their mindless cruelty to that cat.

No! A cat cannot be raised as a vegan. Or a breathairian either, I would presume.

One need simply decide that it's morally wrong for cats to eat, and then force one's choices on the innocent animal.

Presto!

.... that are only produced by flesh, not greens. They must get these from their diet. Also, they need the right amount - not too much for their body weight, not too little, or those fat-soluble vitamins and other things that are needed will kill the cat when you give it too much trying to supplement a "vegan" diet.

http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-what-exactly-is-an-qobligate-carnivoreq

The owners might as well just feed them cat food.

Sure...torture it! It's a CARNIVORE .... not even an omnivore, like a human is supposed to be.

So it's even more stupid than humans being vegan.

Why would you think that a human being vegan is "stupid" as you say?

I expect very, very little in response, considering.

You answered nothing. Please elaborate and be specific.

vegan. Keep in mind I am also answering someone else's post - I personally would never say being vegan is stupid - the only reason the OP has for it being stupid though is because we were designed by evolution to eat both meat and plants and it is not a very good one. But it is true and it is a reason.

Voila!

It's not really stupid to be Vegan if you want to impose such a dangerous discipline upon yourself.

It is stupid to think it's healthy or healthier than eating the way you were designed.

Now....eating meat every meal is not what we were designed to do either. Lots of veggies with a compliment of meat is what we are designed for. So don't think I think the way America eats today is just hunky Dorky.

cookies, candy bars, etc.

To an extent fatty meat and cheese is bad though too.

But lean meat is very healthy. It can be replaced in a vegan diet (especially with supplements) but it is difficult. I lost fat and gained a buttload of muscle when I started scarfing down loads of protein - mostly from boneless/skinless chicken breast, but some smaller amounts from extra lean ground beef and the occasional fish and turkey.

I'm losing weight, my nails are the strongest they've ever been in my life, and I feel great.

Seriously?

You haven't read many of the real studies out there regarding the effects of an animal based diet have you?

Little hint for you - People on a vegan diet have lower instances of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, stroke and pretty much every other "killer" condition you can name.

That's not conjecture, it's not theory, it's fact. It's far from being a "dangerous discipline". Eating meat (especially meat as it's produced in modern society) is a far more "dangerous discipline".

I say that as someone who isn't a vegan. So consider that before you word your no doubt ill-informed reply.

I can tell you one thing, going from a more junk food to more (extremely lean) meat based diet has not made me lose a pound but has made me put on muscle and lose fat.

On my way to being Helen of Troy. I've got bigger muscles, veins starting to show all over, gut is smaller etc.

My cholesterol and blood pressure levels are far better than average. It's not the meat that does it, it's the excess adipose tissue - whether you get that from meat or plants or cheetohs.

Conversely, I know it is possible to be athletic and strong on a vegan diet, but it is difficult. Especially for someone like me with poor discipline.

Could be if you do it wrong..... like any extreme diet.

ANY diet can be "dangerous discipline" if you do it wrong.

Narrowing it down to a vegan diet and labeling it as "dangerous" is foolish.

Nonsense.

It's not eating naturally....for your 65 million years of evolution. It is extreme. It eliminates an entire normally important natural food source for humans. Better get your supplements right.


People are free to eat how they want. But pretending vegan is just like any other eating habit is foolish.

Just look at the fools who thought their carnivorous cat should be vegan like them.

So, basically, your opinion is that one anecdotal story of someone who fed their cat a vegan diet makes the entirety of vegans extremists?

Here's a little tip for you - for thousand and thousands of years, large portions of the population of Earth have lived off primarily vegan or vegetarian diets. Millions of people in India live on a meat free diet. Millions of Buddhists live on a meat free diet. Guess what . . . they're all perfectly healthy.

You might want to do some actual research instead of just pontificating on something you obviously have little knowledge about.

This might come as a shock to you, but not abiding by your norms doesn't make someone "extreme".

For 65 million years of evolution, people have been bashing each other over the head with rocks. That doesn't make not bashing each other over the head with rocks "extreme".

You cannot have a rational conversation about the obvious.

Maybe it's your diet that is muddling your brain!

("meat free" is not the definition of "vegan". That's a vegetarian.)

And, had you bothered to read, you'd know that I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian (due to my fondness for seafood).

Let's see. . . you call a vegan diet a "dangerous discipline" and call people who consume a vegan diet "extreme" and then say that someone else can't have a rational discussion?

Laughable.

Regretting your response yet? LOL!

You're a better vegan than I. This thing is like flypaper for bullshit.

'I once knew a meat eater who developed a taste for human flesh, therefore all meat eaters are CANNIBALS!' --

It's true. I read it on DU.

Right above, right up there.

That's news.

Ownership leads some to think they can do whatever they want with the animal, from abandoning it on the side of the road to killing it. Legally, we own our pets and are free to do that.

Many people now use the term 'guardian' instead, or simply describe themselves as the animal's human to shift the perception of the relationship to one of companionship, a quid pro quo arrangement. We feed them, house them, care for them when they're sick. They entertain us, comfort us, protect us, etc.

Cats have staff.

dogs are such little brown nosers.

You will KILL your cat with a vegan diet.

Obligate carnivores cannot be fed a vegan diet and live, period.

There is no discussion to be had, it is not possible for a obligate carnivore to survive eating a animal-protein free diet.

Science says you are totally incorrect, and I side with science.

They can't reply to this thread anymore.

on a strictly vegan diet. At least, that is the typical doc recommendation...

a strict vegan diet. I've had zero health issues in that time and my physicals have all been without issue. I have fabulous cholesterol and BP numbers, my iron levels are normal, I've not experienced any problems with immunity or the like.

earth is only 6000 years old. Scientific methods have proved that belief wrong and scientific methods(and just plain, old common sense)show us that cats cannot be vegan. Cats are carnivores and so are dogs. People who feed vegan or vegetarian diets to carnivores should be arrested for animal abuse.

I'm a vegetarian, but I don't impose my choice of diet on my pets, nor on other humans.

To vegans and my fellow vegetarians: Don't be stupid and anti-science.

who have tried to make a cat a vegetarian. Usually the cat is sick by the end of the first week and nearly dead after two.

If you are too pious to handle canned meat in the form of properly balanced cat food, please rehome the cat. If it stays with you, it will die.

As was suggested above, get a bunny.

for me as a vegetarian (not vegan) it would be trying not to be a hypocrite. Instead I live with the possible hypocrisy and feed my cats commercial cat food which is a byproduct of factory farming.

which is about as "vegetarian" as cats should ever be. Neither one particularly cared for human food, although the tomcat begged rather shamelessly when my dad had takeout fried chicken one night.

Thank you for taking good care of your kitty. There is no hypocrisy in vegetarians giving their cats what the cats are supposed to be eating. Using all the leftover bits and pieces in pet food ensures that food animals continue on by nourishing the bodies of their fellow creatures.

Now, if they expended all that energy trying to end vicious and destructive factory farming practices instead of trying to force obligate carnivores to be vegetarians, they'd have my full support.

In the middle of trimming and packing in ice, you look down and see a patient, head-bobbing little audience following your every move. The clean-up crew!

far back in time, that and the fact that they can't resist a human who is sleeping on his side. It's almost as nice as sleeping with Mom when they were kittens!

I haven't cleaned a deer, but I've cleaned enough fish to witness the same thing.

Cat's like meaty leftovers. And any rodents in the grain bin too.

Towns and cities mean specialization, which means stored grain, which begets rats, and then cats. I'm sure they figured out shelter pretty quickly.

of a "patient, head-bobbing little audience" is too cute…made me smile!

We've been feeding our (aging) kitty, who will not eat wet food, only kibble, Fromm Family Grain-Free Game Bird Recipe



Now that I see it, I don't know why it has any vegetables and fruits in it: it's probably so minimal as to be non-threatening (I hope).

She never wanted table food at all, until she was about 10 years old (she's 12-13 now: we're not quite sure because she was an adopted street cat). Now, we offer her a teaspoon or two (she's a little cat) of meat or fish from the table as well when we eat it. She sometimes likes it, sometimes not. If she likes it, she'll eat a tiny bit, then seem satisfied.

.......they got to the ridiculously stupid part about cheese and fruits and vegetables. One more time, in nature, cats don't eat fruits and vegetables and they don't drink milk beyond what they get from their mothers as very small kittens. (The saucer of milk business is a myth). They just don't. And, while a limited amount of milk products won't be harmful to most cats, dairy products tend to be high in fat and calories and don't provide nutrients that cats actually need and can be difficult for them to digest.

Animal protein supplemented with dairy products and "an assortment of fresh fruits and vegetables" is a description of a reasonable, balanced diet for humans, but not for cats.

One of my cats thrives much better when he has a regular supply of fresh grass. He was adopted from a farm where he was a barn kitten. My theory is that as the runt of the litter, maybe he often didn't get enough of the kibble that was put out, and maybe supplemented with grass. However it came to be, he seems healthier and livelier when he gets his daily dose of kitty grass. (Usually live wheat grass that I pick up at the grocery store, where it is probably assumed to be being sold to health conscious humans. Ha. )

Anyway my point is that it's well known that many cats DO like some "green vegetables".

I agree though that a lot of the cat food descriptions seem unnecessarily anthropomorphic. And to try to feed a cat a 'vegan' diet is ridiculous.

I had one that adored beans, squash and pumpkin. Another just loved Italian food. My current cat loves melon, and has also eaten pumpkin and broccoli. That doesn't mean these were the main staples in their diets. No way in hell would I try to make them vegan, or even vegetarian. They're carnivores.

It may help with their digestion to get the fiber and roughage, but nutritionally it does nothing for the cat.

Ive watched the neighbors cat take bites out of the strawberries growing on my patio. I had a cat as a kid who loved banana, and my wife had one that would beg for frozen mixed veg, particularly the steamed carrot squares. So saying they do not eat fruit and Veg is not strictly speaking accurate. They just cant derive all of their nutrition from it without going to a whole lot of work to replace the elements in their natural carnivore diet.

You might be surprised how many veggies cats will eat. I don't know about fruit, as I've never seen one of my cats eat it, but I had a cat who went crazy over green olives (I didn't let him eat them, but he about chewed my fingers off if I had the juice on them), and all my cats are quite happy to eat fresh catnip every day. When they eat grass, it's usually to vomit up a hairball, but some of it still probably remains in their system. I don't remember some of the weird things some of my cats have eaten, but some plants and probably even some fruit, won't hurt them. I have a cat now who is insane over chocolate. Of course, I don't let her eat it. And even your vet will tell you to try adding cooked rice if a cat is having trouble with diarrhea.

As a matter of fact, here is a list of 12 human foods cats can eat:
canned fish like tuna (small portions only)
Cheese (small portions only)
Steamed Broccoli (if you see your cat chomping on plants, offer some steamed broccoli)
Cooked eggs
Lean deli meats
Melon (small portions only)
Spinach (small portions only)
Peas (frozen peas make a great snack but small portions only)
Beef
Bananas (frozen banana makes a great treat, small portions only)
Canned baby food (great for cats with health problems)

[img][/img]

Foods you can't feed them:
Human-grade Sushi (can cause gastrointestinal upset)
Onions and Chives (even trace amounts can damage red blood cells)
Uncooked Egg (could expose them to salmonella)
Bones (can cause choking)
Fat trimmings (can lead to gastrointestinal upset and even pancreatitis)
Caffeine (can cause increased heart rate and agitation)
Milk (a cat’s digestive tract becomes somewhat lactose intolerant once a cat reaches adulthood)

This list is just from one site. More sites may offer other things to feed or not to feed.
http://www.thepetcollective.tv/12-human-foods-that-are-safe-for-cats/

My late Tabby LOVED cheese (if I left it out he would go for it) and butter (if it was out and not covered, he would lick it). He also LOVED his nip and when I had some live nip, he would munch on those leaves (and get high).

My childhood cat Clara LOVED cantaloupe (I grew up in a 3 story house with the kitchen on the first floor) IF we cut open a cantaloupe and she was on the 3rd floor, she'd come RUNNING for it. We could not have cantaloupe without a begging feline (and she only liked the sweet ones, the bad ones she'd turn her head).

Dogs, too, for that matter.

My current kitty adores cantaloupe and honeydew melon. She acts just like Clara did when I am cutting up a melon. Won't touch watermelon, however.

My first kitty was a huge fan of baked goods. I couldn't leave bread or muffins out without her chowing down on them.

It's not a myth, though their diet was clearly composed of far more than a few laps of cow's milk, considering all the mice they would catch.

... dairy is not good for cats, even if they love it.

My cat nearly kills me trying to get a taste anytime I eat yogurt or ice cream or have a bowl of cereal, but it's not good for him.

But I was just posting my experiences to correct the previous poster who said that "saucers of milk for cats" was a myth when it clearly wasn't. Good for them? Probably not, but then again it also wasn't good to let them run nearly wild in a barn, exposed to diseases, coyotes, hawks, cattle stepping on them, etc.

Fromm is good stuff. We used to buy it until it became unavailable. Our two eat Canidae PURE Sea for Cats now.

But really, as others have said, cats have varied diets. Our older cat wants nothing to do with anything other than cat food. The younger one eats it all: she catches flies and wasps, eats them alive. She likes bananas, yogurt, cherries, pasta sauce, hamburger, pork chops, chicken, fish, french fries, pretzels, chocolate fudge, ice cream, cookies, raisins, candy bars, mustard (yes), mayonnaise, bread, etc. We know this because it's sort of a joke in the house to try and see what she'll eat next.

But, I'd say 99.9% of her diet is the grain free kibble. She loves that, too. Always under foot begging for the kibble can to come down in the mornings. Nom nom nom!

Therefore, I really don't see any hypocrisy.

Don't be daft! Your cat will judge you more harshly if you try to force vegetarianism on it.


People already think you're bonkers.


Just because you cannot deal with nature (because your system is designed to eat meat too) don't torture and kill a cat over it. That's a great show of how you feel about animals!

What could be more hypocritical?

Get a goat.

Wouldn't risk it.

(In an interview years ago when Linda was still with us) that they fed their cats fish because, despite their very strong commitment to "being veggie", that cats can't be vegetarian!
Can't fix stupid.

ate bugs, on occasion.

Last edited Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:02 AM - Edit history (2)

You are correct! Their diet consist of insects worms and grubs for the most part. I have raised a lot of orphaned armadillos and have studied their natural history in depth. Here is a baby napping.
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and another photo
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And those are some great pics of a crazy critter.

That said, when I had a cat/cats, they were not veg*n. In my opinion, there's not enough information out there to settle my mind that it's good for the cat.

Cats, unlike humans, have a body built for eating meat. Those teeth weren't made for lettuce.

that are most commonly derived from meat. getting it from plants is expensive... much more expensive than getting it from meats. why people would do this to an animal is completely beyond me. if you want to make the admirable choice of being vegan, fantastic; more power to you. however, your cat is NOT DESIGNED TO FOREGO MEAT!

sP