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cali

(114,904 posts)
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 05:50 AM Jun 2014

I support Bowe Bergdahl. Period. I support his parents.

This country sends young men to remote corners of the earth to fight an endless, tedious, aimless war. What do we expect from them? We expect a complete dearth of imagination and independent thinking. We expect that the experience, no matter how ghastly shouldn't fundamentally alter their rah rah mentality.

I don't know if Bowe deserted. I don't give a tinker's damn one way or another.

He was, from the little I've read, an independent sort; an avid reader, a person who questioned and evolved. And he was in his early twenties.

If he walked away, whether in disgust or despair or confusion or in a state entertaining all of those, I can understand that and I sympathize.

The military is not a good fit for independent thinkers and those who question the moral legitimacy of any of this country's endless wars. If Bergdahl cracked and deserted or just wandered off in misery or confusion, I have nothing but sympathy for him.

<snip>

“He got excited during certain parts of fighting, but for the vast majority of the time, he was disillusioned when we had to be boots-on-the-ground infantrymen,” Mr. Cornelison said. However, he said, Sergeant Bergdahl showed more interest in humanitarian activities, like passing out food or medical supplies to Afghan villagers or helping Afghan soldiers repair their buildings, and seemed disappointed that the Army was not more like “a kind of Peace Corps.”

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/us/us-soldier-bowe-bergdahl-case-highlights-a-unit-known-for-troubles.html

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I support Bowe Bergdahl. Period. I support his parents. (Original Post) cali Jun 2014 OP
Period! nt kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #1
I am glad he is back in U.S. hands yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #6
+1 blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #2
So do I! K&R. n/t ColesCountyDem Jun 2014 #3
Same here. AND, I support the release or transfer of ALL the Guantanamo detainees. morningfog Jun 2014 #4
I don't wonder why he bugged out. I wonder why he enlisted. Loudly Jun 2014 #5
They sorta have something for the first six months yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #9
This link seems to explain the process you're referring to. Loudly Jun 2014 #10
Thank you for that yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #11
We educated each other. In the finest tradition of DU! n/t Loudly Jun 2014 #12
That is true! yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #13
Also, some people are raised with a different perception of reality and others Victor_c3 Jun 2014 #24
thank you for adding your perspective to this thread. cali Jun 2014 #25
+1,000 n/t malaise Jun 2014 #7
I certainly support his return, and IDGAF re: the cost... Wounded Bear Jun 2014 #8
Americans have lost the ability to place themselves in another's position. As a parent, I would kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #14
Combat means The Wizard Jun 2014 #15
Thank you for speaking out Evar Jun 2014 #16
thank you for doing that. You've inspired me to write as well. cali Jun 2014 #17
The barbarian mind can't understand the concept of..... DeSwiss Jun 2014 #18
I am sick to death of these so called republicans... mgardener Jun 2014 #19
he shuold get a full richard nixon mopinko Jun 2014 #20
BRAVO, well said Cali! You nailed this. secondwind Jun 2014 #21
We are wasting some of our best people beemer27 Jun 2014 #22
I am in agreement. As to the concern that others will desert in the future TwilightGardener Jun 2014 #23
Me, too. truebluegreen Jun 2014 #26
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
6. I am glad he is back in U.S. hands
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:54 AM
Jun 2014

However, if he deserted his team then he needs to be held accountable. We shall see what happens.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
4. Same here. AND, I support the release or transfer of ALL the Guantanamo detainees.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:31 AM
Jun 2014

All of them, and immediately. Close it down.

 

Loudly

(2,436 posts)
5. I don't wonder why he bugged out. I wonder why he enlisted.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:39 AM
Jun 2014

Seriously, what a drastic thing to do if you harbor even a hint of a hint of doubt about it.

And the military needs a way for troops who change their mind to opt out and go home without resorting to such desperate measures.

Even if you need to take a dishonorable discharge.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
9. They sorta have something for the first six months
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:56 AM
Jun 2014

that you can get an "Entrance Discharge" which just says it didn't work for you. However, he was way over 6 months. Plus he enlisted well after the Iraq War started. I find it hard to believe that he wanted to join to help the Afghani's when he must have seen how they were being treated. I mean they were not having parties over there. I can't wait for his book.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
11. Thank you for that
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:06 AM
Jun 2014

My explanation is pretty pathetic compared to your very informative one. You are right that the CO does have too much discretion.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
24. Also, some people are raised with a different perception of reality and others
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 12:39 PM
Jun 2014

I grew up believing that our military was a force for good and would be used to make the world a better and safer place. I saw world events of the late 80s and 90s through the lens of a right leaning upbringing and it was very apparent to me that we had learned our lessons from our previous conflicts. I joined the Army in 1997 after seeing events unfold in the Balkans. I honestly and completely wanted to be a part of a mission to stop genocide. Even now, I don't think anything would make me feel more proud than to have been a part of a mission like that.

I received an Army ROTC scholarship in 1998 and graduated college in 2002 and immediately was given the rank of Second Lieutenant and sent to be an Infantry Officer (which was my absolute first choice at the time).

I watched in amazement as events unfolded in 2003 in Iraq and I found myself deploying to Iraq in 2004 as an Infantry Platoon Leader. I never understood that war and I never believed in the cause. Afghanistan I could completely understand at the time, but not Iraq. Again, I joined to make the world a better place and to stop the horrors of wars from occurring - not to perpetrate them.

I wouldn't be at all honest to say that I wasn't very angry and bitter during my deployment. I would never have left my fellow Soldiers, but I completely understand what Bow Bergdahl must have been feeling. He is far from alone in the thoughts that must have been going through his head prior to his capture.

I kept a journal in the first part of my deployment. I have never looked at it, but I'm sure that if I were to read it that it would be striking how my thoughts and outlooks changed between February 2004 when I first deployed to abruptly after my first firefight in April 2004 until I hit a definite low around June 2004 after I was involved in a number of very large and horrific firefights.

Wounded Bear

(58,605 posts)
8. I certainly support his return, and IDGAF re: the cost...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:54 AM
Jun 2014

I'm fine if they run a real investigation into the circumstances of his capture. But a real one, not a flaying in the RW press and blogosphere.

Kid's been through a shit storm. Adding to it is poor form, at least.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
14. Americans have lost the ability to place themselves in another's position. As a parent, I would
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:57 AM
Jun 2014

have grown a beard if i thought it would help or comfort my child in captivity. I also understand that those released had families too and reasons that we may never come to understand or believe that drove them to think and act the way they did. We are in their homeland...they are not in ours. We had to travel there to kill them and their children.
And we must be careful to not buy into the meme that McCain and others are now trying to push that the Taliban were responsible for 9/11.

Chickenhawks have absolutely no right to criticize Bowe or his family IMHO.

The Wizard

(12,536 posts)
15. Combat means
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:01 AM
Jun 2014

hunting for people who are hunting for you. It's outside the realm of normal human experience and the consequences are sometimes too drastic for the mind to accept. People crack under combat conditions. That is no reason to vilify them because the President is only half white.
Pox News and their Republican handmaidens in Congress are a disgrace to humanity and should be scorned and ridiculed at every possible turn.
This combat veteran refuses to speak to people who watch Pox News and cut off meaningful ties with those who disgrace the United States by selling out their souls for racial purity. The Republicans with whom I maintain contact know better than to raise political issues for fear of having their heads chewed off in a full frontal verbal assault.
I don't suffer fools, and neither should any of us.

Evar

(44 posts)
16. Thank you for speaking out
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:05 AM
Jun 2014

Thank you. I am in agreement, and I support Bowe Bergdahl and his parents, too. The vicious rhetoric and smear campaigns on Fox have resulted in at least one person's death, Dr. Tiller, and perhaps others as well. We must condemn these dirty politics tactics that are totally irresponsible. I'm praying for the Bergdahls and I've written to the little city of Hailey, and to the chamber of commerce there to offer support.

mgardener

(1,812 posts)
19. I am sick to death of these so called republicans...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:21 AM
Jun 2014

We don't leave soldiers behind. Unless the republican party thinks they are not deserving.
I find it very, very curious that the same republicans who clamored for his release are now calling him a traitor and want to impeach POTUS Obama for getting his release.

Why didn't this issue of his supposed desertion come out before his release? Why after? The supposed deed was already done, why did they wait so long? Why did they demand the release of this man?
This stinks to high heaven. I think we would be wrong to give the republicans a pass on this.

Give the man a fair trial if necessary. We Americans are innocent until proven guilty. If the republicans want this changed then let them bring their case before the people.
Otherwise why did this man risk his life to defend this country if he is not given the rights that we are supposedly protecting? Do these rights only belong to republicans? Or only rich, white republicans?
And I find it totally ironic that his family is republican. No mention of that by Fox News. Can you imagine the screaming if he was a Democrat?

These supposed christian right wing republicans are nasty, horrible people. And they must be stopped.

beemer27

(460 posts)
22. We are wasting some of our best people
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:04 AM
Jun 2014

If we continue with these wars that are not for America, but for American corporations to make money on, we will end up wasting many fine, intelligent, patriotic, and valuable people. We recruit people who are smart enough, have a good record, are physically capable, and then use them for cannon fodder. Contrary to what many might think, it is not easy to enlist. Think of your own circle of friends. How many could pass the physical, emotional, mental, and security checks that every soldier must pass just to enlist? This is on top of having a clean criminal record. There are very few wavers granted for bad criminal records. It seems as if our leaders have learned nothing from past wars. In fact, most of the people we trust to lead us are more interested in steering tax payer money to their friends rather than do what is in the best interest of all Americans. We are wasting some of our best and brightest youth on these worthless wars. We did the same in Vietnam, and nobody seemed to learn the lessons that were so obvious.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
23. I am in agreement. As to the concern that others will desert in the future
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:59 AM
Jun 2014

if we cheer his safe return--yeah, no...I don't think other soldiers are going to look at Bergdahl and think "he got away with it!" after five years of him eating parasite-laden goat meat and wondering when the beheading was coming. That said, I question whether he even deserted. My guess is, he intended to come back.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
26. Me, too.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:18 PM
Jun 2014

I've posted this elsewhere; it was sent to me by a good friend who knows Bowe Bergdahl. I find it telling, and it makes his story more understandable.

"I've talked with Bowe--he used to cruise by the library often to study or check out books. X knew him well--he was a friend of her son's, they used to do SCA tournaments together, mock fighting. And yeah, a ton of irony there. We all didn't feel good about his enlisting--he was too starry eyed about some things, too … strongly ethical, without any leavening. He was bright, philosophical, creative, curious, but he was not…canny.

There was more than a touch of the old Victorian romantic adventurer in his attitude--highly optimistic, but totally clueless. And just as tragic. (I do not know, but I would not be surprised to hear he had read Richard Burton travelogues.)

And fuck the Brothers K and Faux driven media attackers and vicious idiots. I want him back home and out of the line of fire of the war and the crap fake for-hire journalists."

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