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Kurska

(5,739 posts)
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:29 PM Jun 2014

Why is ageism suddenly all the rage on DU?

I'm a young guy myself, but frankly I just don't get it. Not every older person, no matter their race, is backwards or worthy of contempt. Do older people TEND to be less progressive on many social issues? Of course they are, I'm a gay person so gay marriage is an issue close to my heart (still can't marry the man I love in my state of birth btw!). There is no denying the fact that 42% of 65 or older people support gay marriage compared to 78% of 18-29 year olds.

You know what I think when I see that "Wow, 42% of people who grew up in a incredibly homophobic society where they were literally taught to fear gay people and consider them often no better than monsters support gay marriage". That is an incredible transformation in our society and something we should be collectively proud of our seniors for making. I would also like to point out that that change was most certainly not accomplished by being a raging stereotyping jerk to them.

I feel pretty confident in saying that nearly everyone on DU believes in the core issues of social justice. Nearly to a man/woman I think we believe that people deserve to be treated as individuals and not judged as part of a greater whole that they may not necessarily share key attributes with. When we talk about ideological minefields like affirmative action, reparations and rape culture (social issues off the top of my head that I see DU regularly tearing itself apart over), is it too much to ask that we keep in mind that nearly everyone here is infact a good guy who wants society to be as fair as possible to as many people as possible?

174 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why is ageism suddenly all the rage on DU? (Original Post) Kurska Jun 2014 OP
K & R Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #1
Because JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #2
exactly ...#NotAllOldPeople ... it is a very distinct subset and all those qualifiers need to be Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #5
NONE of the OPs in question used the term "some" or "not all" PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #8
Thank you. That was very big of you to say and do. Wish we would see more of it on here. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #21
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #15
it is -in a way- exasperating, I understand but, also it shows me how the 1% are moving up Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #22
I can't believe they hid that. Nt bravenak Jun 2014 #34
I can and I can't, yanno. eom Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #36
Good Grief!!!!nt bravenak Jun 2014 #47
IKR eom Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #50
I can. redqueen Jun 2014 #37
it is not the message. it is the messenger. yes. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #43
I wish they could see what this looks like. bravenak Jun 2014 #46
they would have to take off the rose colored glasses to really see. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #59
For calling me an attention hog? Kurska Jun 2014 #41
I had thought H2O Man Jun 2014 #51
Well, I didn't alert it. Kurska Jun 2014 #55
Right. H2O Man Jun 2014 #56
thank you for that H2O Man. There really is a meeting of the minds trying to take place here. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #62
Right. H2O Man Jun 2014 #78
This message was self-deleted by its author JDPriestly Jun 2014 #87
Yep, that was a very appropriate hide. A slam dunk, really. Not sure how anyone can see it otherwise quinnox Jun 2014 #52
People have been called a lot worse on here and it was allowed to stand. People have Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #66
Every jury is a crap shoot. It just depends on the luck of the draw and totodeinhere Jun 2014 #161
No offense but do you think you are telling me something Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #169
I couldn't either heaven05 Jun 2014 #75
there is a heaven05 Jun 2014 #77
Exactly. Andy823 Jun 2014 #111
This. nt redqueen Jun 2014 #24
Hashtags are really poor substitute for an argument. Kurska Jun 2014 #31
wow. alrighty then. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #32
If understanding that causes me to post threads going off on DU seniors for being old. Kurska Jun 2014 #35
I really need to see links to specific posts for that. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #40
I link specific posts Kurska Jun 2014 #45
what is so funny is I am actually defending your OP. but, I can tell when I am not appreciated and Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #49
You are certainly free to defend whatever you want to Kurska Jun 2014 #53
I can understand PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #58
the stop sign colored monarch ... ? obscure reference to a poster who probably is trying Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #61
I agree with you PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #65
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #6
No one posted a specific age at DU JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #18
Could you explain this about your FB page? Your statement... madfloridian Jun 2014 #171
If we didn't have support from older white voters we wouldn't have president Barrack obama Kurska Jun 2014 #12
So have many 'young, white male Christian Dominionist Fearful Republicans. sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #67
The problem is that older DUers are also getting smeared in some of these blanket posts, pnwmom Jun 2014 #79
That is the point of the posts AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #97
If you want to diss that group, go where they are. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #85
"Middle age and older white male Christian" question everything Jun 2014 #96
Don't forget Bill Moyers. grasswire Jun 2014 #128
Right. This is why I included Jerry Brown question everything Jun 2014 #131
Hey Gen.. Cha Jun 2014 #126
I hope your hate brings up your self esteem! whistler162 Jun 2014 #156
A lot of old people like myself did not become upaloopa Jun 2014 #3
I see your point. Kurska Jun 2014 #19
That is the definition of ageism! Helen Borg Jun 2014 #23
Did I do that in your opinion? upaloopa Jun 2014 #28
No, I was agreeing with you Helen Borg Jun 2014 #30
Ok I was confused thanks upaloopa Jun 2014 #39
Excellent post. RebelOne Jun 2014 #86
I had and have gay friends and family members. upaloopa Jun 2014 #92
Big K&R. It's about as far as being progressive as any other form of bigotry quinnox Jun 2014 #4
You forgot sexism. Whisp Jun 2014 #9
No he didn't. smirkymonkey Jun 2014 #108
On DU, sure RobertEarl Jun 2014 #7
The level of ignorance I encounter here daily is staggering. Romulox Jun 2014 #148
Well.... RobertEarl Jun 2014 #170
Funny how these trends work here. One week there may be a spate of anti-Southern threads, Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #10
Some folks AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #134
Face it: 1000words Jun 2014 #11
It's the rock & roll music Capt. Obvious Jun 2014 #13
divide and conquer shanti Jun 2014 #14
You win the internet today. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #88
That's all it takes to win the internet for a day? boston bean Jun 2014 #99
heh shanti Jun 2014 #104
It appears to be the goal of someone. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #117
Well, they got the divide part down AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #135
I don't understand it either. Xyzse Jun 2014 #16
It had better not be too much to ask, or this isn't the party of FDR. ancianita Jun 2014 #17
because sexist ones iamthebandfanman Jun 2014 #20
it is human nature for some(most?) people to distrust people that are different than them GusBob Jun 2014 #25
There was a study laundry_queen Jun 2014 #54
You hurt more when your older... Blanks Jun 2014 #26
Hopefully, it is an under the radar campaign... bvar22 Jun 2014 #27
+1! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #89
Thanks bvar mdbl Jun 2014 #118
Recommend Read...and I'll add a Rant...just because I need to... KoKo Sep 2014 #172
Eventually DU will consist of ten people who will spend all day and night stroking each other. CBGLuthier Jun 2014 #29
Come now, lets be real here Kurska Jun 2014 #38
Seems it is getting smaller every day. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #63
When the media returns to sensible reporting mdbl Jun 2014 #119
Without doubt n/t etherealtruth Jun 2014 #122
because d_b Jun 2014 #33
Red heads Dr. Strange Jun 2014 #98
Because someone needed attention? SMC22307 Jun 2014 #42
Because we got through homophobia, racism, and sexism Renew Deal Jun 2014 #44
Because that's what Rove is hoping he is creating by starting these 'Hillary is old' meme LynneSin Jun 2014 #48
Because this is an anonymous message board. The_Commonist Jun 2014 #57
I'm an old baby boomer and wonder if we're resented for our numbers SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2014 #60
I believe the heart of the matter is that many older liberal Democratic activists here often post Zorra Jun 2014 #64
Rec for eternity. PowerToThePeople Jun 2014 #69
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #72
You clearly totally missed the point, as fully illustrated by your completely irrelevant strawman Zorra Jun 2014 #74
Thank you, Zorra! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #91
Zorra speaks for me! n/t Oilwellian Jun 2014 #107
This is so very true. Blue_In_AK Jun 2014 #113
Excellent post! Kermitt Gribble Jun 2014 #116
Nice. One of the best descriptions I have seen. jtuck004 Jun 2014 #120
Thank you x 1,000,000 nt LiberalElite Jun 2014 #123
..... madfloridian Jun 2014 #130
Excellent post! Well said! scarletwoman Jun 2014 #132
It's not an enlightened opinion.... defacto7 Jun 2014 #136
K&R stonecutter357 Jun 2014 #145
This machine kills fascists Javaman Jun 2014 #149
The only rebuttal I see in this thread to your point is some lame hashtags. You nailed it. nt Romulox Jun 2014 #151
That's should be an OP Autumn Jun 2014 #155
Well said pscot Jun 2014 #162
Excellent post MissDeeds Jun 2014 #163
Will add my rant although it's weak in respons to your post.... KoKo Sep 2014 #174
Because you're all a bunch of young whipper snappers. Wet behind the ears. Fell down with the Monk06 Jun 2014 #68
There is always going to be intergenerational friction Warpy Jun 2014 #70
Because people aren't taking the Olive Garden, pitbull and sexism bait any more. MADem Jun 2014 #71
Yea! Scott6113 Jun 2014 #73
I agree. At 77 i have become more and more justhanginon Jun 2014 #102
Yes, it is way too much to ask hootinholler Jun 2014 #76
Because Hillary is 67 and the trolls are making sure WhiteTara Jun 2014 #80
It's shorthand for demagogues. Whites are...Blacks are...Women are...Men are...Jews are... Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #81
The problem is resistance to diversity BainsBane Jun 2014 #82
Wha? DeSwiss Jun 2014 #83
K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #84
No one talked ageism when they were around Pete Seeger. Tom Rinaldo Jun 2014 #90
Because it's better to hate on one group at a time here. dilby Jun 2014 #93
! BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2014 #94
Divide and conquer. woo me with science Jun 2014 #95
this. navarth Jun 2014 #100
better watch that language, woo me with science shanti Jun 2014 #105
Yep customerserviceguy Jun 2014 #109
Whole hearted KnR FogerRox Jun 2014 #101
K&R Jamastiene Jun 2014 #103
My gran would have been 103 years old if she was still alive arikara Jun 2014 #137
Notice that it's "old white" hate not just "old" hate Corruption Inc Jun 2014 #106
Im 24 years Old & I Support Gay Marriage Corey_Baker08 Jun 2014 #110
I don't "get it" and I am an old woman etherealtruth Jun 2014 #112
Thank you for the OP. Curmudgeoness Jun 2014 #114
If you don't like old people.. armed_and_liberal Jun 2014 #115
Kurska, first of all....... {{{{{{{{{{{{HUGGGGG!!!!!!}}}}}}}} and thank you!!! You have the greatest DesertDiamond Jun 2014 #121
The New Right needs to get the animosity stimulated to support cutting social security. If you can Overseas Jun 2014 #124
Nearly every individual or group that criticizes Obama gets smeared on DU. Vattel Jun 2014 #125
Great point. BlueCheese Jun 2014 #127
Youngun Frustration DustyJoe Jun 2014 #129
Your post disrespects and belittles young board members. And, no, I'm not joking. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #133
It goes far deeper than just ageism. madfloridian Jun 2014 #138
? Didn't seem sudden to me. merrily Jun 2014 #139
Because divide and conquer works? mahina Jun 2014 #140
46% of people 60a+ voted in favor of marriage equality in 2012 in WA State eridani Jun 2014 #141
I'm an older white Male, imthevicar Jun 2014 #142
I am 60 Pakid Jun 2014 #143
Great observation anti partisan Jun 2014 #144
this is divide and conquer DonCoquixote Jun 2014 #146
The Rage? really? randr Jun 2014 #147
When DU gets tied up in knots over something, LWolf Jun 2014 #150
understood, but let us also consider DonCoquixote Jun 2014 #152
I think that's true of any group. LWolf Jun 2014 #154
+1 Yeah, I can relate to that. nt raouldukelives Jun 2014 #158
What Zorra said Autumn Jun 2014 #153
Some people need to build their self esteem whistler162 Jun 2014 #157
It has more to do with where you were raised and live then your age. Bigotry seems to flourish OregonBlue Jun 2014 #159
Most of the original hippies are now old white people wryter2000 Jun 2014 #160
The moneyed class will do whatever they can TBF Jun 2014 #164
What bvar and Zorra said. historylovr Jun 2014 #165
I would just make a generalization.... BlancheSplanchnik Jun 2014 #166
Elitism. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #167
Because the democratic leadership is too old Android3.14 Jun 2014 #168
It's NOT too Old...Obama isn't Old...it's been Corrupted by Money/Think Tanks/Lobbyists KoKo Sep 2014 #173

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
2. Because
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:33 PM
Jun 2014

Middle age and older white male Christian Dominionist Fearful Republicans have done everything they can to fuck over blacks, asians, latinos, women and the GLBT community.

They've done it by voting for the Republican Party and their IndieTeaPublican cohorts.


Not the politicians - the jerks that voted for them.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
5. exactly ...#NotAllOldPeople ... it is a very distinct subset and all those qualifiers need to be
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:37 PM
Jun 2014

included ... #SomePeople take things out of context and twist it to suit their agenda of feeling maligned.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
8. NONE of the OPs in question used the term "some" or "not all"
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:39 PM
Jun 2014

no one is taking anything out of context.

edit - reread your post, and it is spot on. I interpreted it wrong. Thanks for the post =)

Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #5)

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
22. it is -in a way- exasperating, I understand but, also it shows me how the 1% are moving up
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:00 PM
Jun 2014

the ladder until even this very specific subset is starting to feel the pinch and are complaining. Welcome to club.

Dare I say:

I told you so.

It was only a matter of time.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
37. I can.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:18 PM
Jun 2014

The bar indicating whether or not something meets community standards covers quite a range, and it all depends on demographics.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
51. I had thought
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:25 PM
Jun 2014

it was aimed at me & the OP I posted today. I do not think it should have been removed.

I "served" on a DU jury a few minutes ago, where the post wasn't in any way offensive. Alerting should not be a tactic for stifling discussion.

With the exception of a very few purposeful shit-stirrers who get tomb-stoned, I prefer to see open debate.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
55. Well, I didn't alert it.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:28 PM
Jun 2014

I often serve of juries and I am very strict in terms of what I hide.

I can see WHY it was hidden, it did violate the rules "no name calling", but honestly it was mild name calling.

I can certainly respect the juries decision either way.

H2O Man

(73,333 posts)
78. Right.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:13 PM
Jun 2014

I've had people say rude and unkind things about me here over the years. Some were probably semi-accurate. But none of them have offended me in the least.

We should be able to discuss -- and even argue -- about important topics here.

Response to H2O Man (Reply #51)

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
52. Yep, that was a very appropriate hide. A slam dunk, really. Not sure how anyone can see it otherwise
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:26 PM
Jun 2014

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
66. People have been called a lot worse on here and it was allowed to stand. People have
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:42 PM
Jun 2014

been slandered and libeled and juries have allowed it.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
77. there is a
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:06 PM
Jun 2014

sector here that believes they can never be wrong about any subject and won't be ignored but it is possible to do such. There is definitely elitism on this board coming from some of the usual suspects. Try to ignore their immaturity and welcome healthy dialog with all types of true progressives and liberals.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
111. Exactly.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:29 PM
Jun 2014

Doesn't really seem to matter what the subject is, if you don't agree with them then it's time to start using the old "victim" meme. I agree, they just need to be ignored.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
31. Hashtags are really poor substitute for an argument.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:07 PM
Jun 2014

This is something I actually tend to very much agree with older people on.

Apparently those hashtags mean you can paint with as broad a brush as possible and if someone is offended by it, they are just looking for a reason to get their feelings hurt or something.

Frankly it sounds like how homophobes talk to me when I get mad at them for calling all gay people sissies.

Maybe I just don't "get it".

I kinda really I hope I never "get it" to be honest. I mean the world is a lot better place when you think of people as individuals instead of caricatures.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
35. If understanding that causes me to post threads going off on DU seniors for being old.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:15 PM
Jun 2014

Screw it, I'm probably better off never understanding it.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
49. what is so funny is I am actually defending your OP. but, I can tell when I am not appreciated and
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:24 PM
Jun 2014

I can stop at any time.

How about I choose now as a good time.

Would you like that?

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
58. I can understand
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:30 PM
Jun 2014

I had hard time understanding the meaning of the post with inserted hashtags at first. It took a couple readings for me to see you were supporting the OP and not arguing against it. Obviously others had the same issue, as the stop sign colored monarch supported your post (and I do not think they support the OP based on other posts I have read)

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
61. the stop sign colored monarch ... ? obscure reference to a poster who probably is trying
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:37 PM
Jun 2014

to be supportive in spite of it all.

all I know is that if the shoe fits, *even/especially* if it pinches then some people need to try it on for size and walk a mile.

Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #2)

JustAnotherGen

(31,683 posts)
18. No one posted a specific age at DU
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:45 PM
Jun 2014

But if you were to reach out to us on Facebook (the minorities here) you'll find we have a very sideway shade throwing view of many folks at DU. Now as long as we keep it over there - and not here - folks should be happy.

We've gone underground to the underground and that's the way it's gonna be.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
171. Could you explain this about your FB page? Your statement...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 11:38 PM
Jun 2014

"we have a very sideway shade throwing view of many folks at DU."

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
12. If we didn't have support from older white voters we wouldn't have president Barrack obama
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:41 PM
Jun 2014

There are also young white male Christian Dominionist Fearful Republicans doing everything they can to fuck over blacks, asians, latinos, women and the GLBT community.

There are also older white female Christian Dominionist Fearful Republicans doing everything they can to fuck over blacks, asians, latinos, women and the GLBT community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Bachmann

There are also older black male Christian Dominionist Fearful Republicans doing everything they can to fuck over, asians, latinos, women and the GLBT community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.W._Jackson


etc.. etc...

I don't think there is anything to be gained by pretending our enemies are monolithic. They are our enemies because they are authoritarian thugs who want to rule the country based on their religion. Not because of any specific attribute that means blame should be projected to all people sharing that attribute. Hate can actually build a surprisingly broad coalition. The only way we win is by building a bigger one.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
67. So have many 'young, white male Christian Dominionist Fearful Republicans.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:42 PM
Jun 2014

Are you telling us that all the 'Young' right wing anti-gay, anti-immigration, anti-minority rights, have suddenly been enlightened?

Ever look at the Young Republican websites??

That's the problem with broad brushes, they are so easily refuted, with facts.

Not to mention they do exactly what they claim to oppose, create an 'other' out of whole groups of people.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
79. The problem is that older DUers are also getting smeared in some of these blanket posts,
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:15 PM
Jun 2014

because of the actions of other people in their generation -- people they've been fighting with for their entire adult lives.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
97. That is the point of the posts
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:10 PM
Jun 2014

It is barely contained racism, it is being leveled against loyal Democrats, and it is repulsive.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
85. If you want to diss that group, go where they are.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:28 PM
Jun 2014

They are not to be found on DU. Enough already.
Let's discuss what can be done to enlighten those who vote for the Republican Party and support Tea Party ideas.

You won't find many older DUers who disagree with you at all.

question everything

(47,271 posts)
96. "Middle age and older white male Christian"
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:09 PM
Jun 2014

You mean like Jimmy Carter? Joe Biden? Bill Clinton? Walter Mondale? Jerry Brown?

What's with this "Middle age and older white male Christian" shit?

I think that for every Middle age and older white male Christian I can find a black, or asian, latino and even gay who are conservative anti equality ones. Ever heard of the log cabin Republicans? They are gay.


 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
156. I hope your hate brings up your self esteem!
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:11 AM
Jun 2014

Must be a bummer to feel so baad about yourself that you have to hate one group or the other.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
3. A lot of old people like myself did not become
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:35 PM
Jun 2014

homophobic then changed.
Some of do use critical thinking and do not follow the herd. To lump us all into one bag is being as lacking as we are assumed to be.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
19. I see your point.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:46 PM
Jun 2014

Although it only makes me respect even more the people who were able to see through society to understand what justice really meant.

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
86. Excellent post.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jun 2014

I am 75 years old and never had a problem with gays. I grew up in the South and have had many gay and lesbian friends.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
92. I had and have gay friends and family members.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:51 PM
Jun 2014

It always sounds weird to say that because of people saying "some of my best friends are Black."
My sister-in-law and brother-in-law are gay. My folks did not teach us to hate and I always questioned what my church said.
We were once young and progressive and now we are old and progressive.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
4. Big K&R. It's about as far as being progressive as any other form of bigotry
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:37 PM
Jun 2014

Ageism, prejudice against minorities, gays, foreigners, its all part of the same basket, and should be against the terms of service here.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
7. On DU, sure
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:38 PM
Jun 2014

But on the streets most old white people are T R O U B L E

The world didn't have nuclear weapons before the greatest generation invented them and supported the construction of the B O M B.

The environment was pretty clean until the 1950's.

The world has changed tremendously since the advent of the capitalist pig.

DU is like 1/10 of one percent of one percent, yet look at us fighting and squabbling over spilled milk.

The past is ugly and the future looks dim. You kids better get to work or there will be even more trouble. Take it as a warning or whatever.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
148. The level of ignorance I encounter here daily is staggering.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:11 AM
Jun 2014

In the recent past, peace reigned upon the earth (until the 1950s, when OLD WHITE PEOPLE, along with capitalism and pollution, were invented!)

Thank you, RobertEarl, for your sharing your scholarship with the group!

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
170. Well....
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:44 PM
Jun 2014

We didn't have to invent the terrible weapon. Or, once invented, made sure it was never used and the plans destroyed. This little pale blue dot would turn brown if many of the bombs were used.

Einstein was said to have remarked something like; such power used with the mindset of war and destruction would led us to utter doom.

The doomsday clock is at 11:58 last i heard.

As for the old whiteys, of which i am one, just think back to the day when many of our kind were wanting to turn the Middle East into glass.

And as for pollution, we are to blame. 7 Billion people around the world and our billion have polluted the whole planet. Some of us raised the alarm and we are called all kinds of nasty names and have been claimed to be against capitalism. Do you see the old white people clamoring to clean up our mess, destroy the bombs and live with all the other lifeforms on this pale dot, with equality? Too damn few, that's for sure. We are responsible. To deny that we are is not a sound idea. Agree?

If we are so damn smart, why do we still have these weapons?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
10. Funny how these trends work here. One week there may be a spate of anti-Southern threads,
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:39 PM
Jun 2014

then the focus might turn to "white privilege" in general. "Old white men" is simply the topic of derision de jour, for some reason.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
99. That's all it takes to win the internet for a day?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:23 PM
Jun 2014

A catchy simplistic little phrase about division. Who knew?

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
16. I don't understand it either.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:44 PM
Jun 2014

The last paragraph is a definite for me.

I don't see why we have to keep at that part for now, especially when you look at things, it is mostly a difference in wording, or otherwise a generational gap and not understanding of a particular culture.

We may word things differently, and we tend to reach the same conclusions, though get hung up on the way things are said.

iamthebandfanman

(8,127 posts)
20. because sexist ones
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 01:55 PM
Jun 2014

got old?

lol

I swear, I feel like there are people on DU who are using the tried and true tactics of divide...
since they cant do it very effectively with religion and race here, they are going for the other traits to invoke it...

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
25. it is human nature for some(most?) people to distrust people that are different than them
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:02 PM
Jun 2014

it has been that way throughout human history and it is a dynamic that works myriads of ways and directions, skin color, creed, religion, ethnicity, culture, nationality etc. It is something I have noted as well in the many decades of my life. When you get past a certain age you note that is one of the dynamics as well

For instance, in Africa the Hutu and the Tutsi have hated each other for centuries. In America, the Comanche and the Sioux had mortal enemies amongst various other tribes. War, slavery, genocide, the whole gamut with these examples. what is interesting to note with these and other ancient cultures...they respected their elders and had a tremendous respect for ancestry.

Respect as general rule is a long lost tradition. Some would say antiquated.

I mean just ask the Bergdahls....

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
54. There was a study
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:28 PM
Jun 2014

I read about in my psych textbook, where the researcher randomly took people and put them into 'groups' and the ASCRIBED a trait to them....ie "your group will be known as the blues" and found that even when people didn't really HAVE anything in common, just believing that they were part of the same group made them act discriminatory against other groups with the ascribed trait. For example, when the 'blues' were told that the 'greens' were cheaters, then when they would play a board game, they would accuse them of cheating...with no evidence that the greens were cheaters at all. It's really fascinating - humans long to 'belong' to a group and they will discriminate against other groups, no matter the 'facts'.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
26. You hurt more when your older...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:02 PM
Jun 2014

Your joints ache, you aren't as flexible (emotionally, psychologically or physically).

Young people piss you off and there's no repercussions for snapping at them. Your eyesight sucks (oddly there's NEVER enough light) and when people mumble - it just sounds like pops and buzzes (very annoying, makes old people crankier).

For some reason when us old people (and I'm only in my early 50's) are cranky - the youngsters find that off-putting.

Go figure. Mostly (at least lately around here) it's that whole flexibility thing that annoys the youth - some of geriatric folk around here yearn for the good old days of the Roosevelt administration (which they weren't around for) and won't believe you when you tell them that the Great Depression was not the good old days.

That's just my opinion, but I've noticed the 'ageism' trend myself.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
27. Hopefully, it is an under the radar campaign...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:03 PM
Jun 2014

..to disqualify Hillary for the Democratic nomination as being "too old".
If that is the case, I will join my younger brethren.

OTOH, if you were born after about 1955, you haven't had the opportunity to hear, see, and experience what a REAL Democrat on the National Campaign Trail sounds like.

The History of the LABOR Movement has been erased from our History Books,
and from the National Debate. Many of our youth have NO IDEA why they get weekends off,
or how much blood was spilled so that they could have that and much more.


Come sit around the fire, my younger brethren, and listen to us Old Folk tell you about the Battles that were Fought & Won,
and about the Heroes who gave their lives,
about the mistakes we made,
so that you don't have to fight them all over again.


In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be[font size=3] established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

[font size=3]America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.[/font]


Please note that the above are stipulated as Basic Human RIGHTS to be protected by our government,
and NOT as COMMODITIES to be SOLD to Americans by For Profit Corporations.

There was a time, not so long ago, when voting FOR the Democrat was voting FOR the above Democratic Party Values.
Sadly, this is no longer true.
Hopefully, you can return the Democratic Party back to the Working Class roots that built the largest, wealthiest, and most upwardly mobile Working Class the WORLD had ever seen.
If not, then I fear for your future.

It will be a tough fight.
I wish you well.




You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

mdbl

(4,972 posts)
118. Thanks bvar
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:58 PM
Jun 2014

We already lost so much in the last 30 years. We need to keep reminding everyone. I am tired of seeing things moving toward Pottersville. The 99% need to reclaim their society. Many need to learn what they have lost.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
172. Recommend Read...and I'll add a Rant...just because I need to...
Wed Sep 3, 2014, 08:22 PM
Sep 2014

Last edited Wed Sep 3, 2014, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Nice to see you around here "bvar22" your voice has been missed....but, sorry you had to come in on this one...but, your post stands for what is missed in the squabbles that go on that only serve to get attention while the REAL TRUTH of why we are all so angry with each other and fighting amongst ourselves languishes...in that America is an Elitist Nation where the 1% RULE....and it's getting worse.

We will be Dicken's America soon if issues aren't addressed about what has happened to our "Homeland" (since the RW just loves to call it that).

Yet the Fighting over the "Bits" rules here on DU these days and it becomes about "Jury Systems" and "Sock Puppets" and scrapping over the spoils.

While the REAL NEWS gets little attention...and when it does...the "sock puppets" have their day at it and discourage any real discussion about WHY we are Fighting With Each Other...

We don't have any Progressive Movements Worth a DAMN these days to back us up and help us with what we are going through. They left us when Obama was Elected and came back for a bit to whip us up for "2012" promising that PBO would Find his TRUE DEM ROOTS if we Re-elected him ....He would be FREE to show us the Progressive Dem Side he was forced to hide in his first term.

We re-elected him........and this is what we get... And we will fight over the spoils and go at each other because we are disillusioned...and those who aren't will throw rocks and call names if we don't send Nato to go after Putin and if we don't put "Boots on the Ground" because of the horrible Beheadings and the Threat of ISIS coming to murder our children in their beds and the Ebola Virus is coming and that will cause death of ALL of US...if A CURE ISN'T FOUND Immediately!

On and on...while our memories fade in the Blaring Propaganda and the Beat of War Drums of the Mainstream Media who has sold us LIES, LIES and MORE LIES for DECADES.

Sad Times. We need to do better....and I'm closing my Rant.....


CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
29. Eventually DU will consist of ten people who will spend all day and night stroking each other.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:05 PM
Jun 2014

Yeah boss. That's right. yeah yeah yeah.

Kurska

(5,739 posts)
38. Come now, lets be real here
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:18 PM
Jun 2014

There will be a lot less stroking and a lot more arguments and angry reports per capita than ever.

mdbl

(4,972 posts)
119. When the media returns to sensible reporting
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:01 PM
Jun 2014

I won't need to come to a place to find the truth. Until then, we can stroke away here as much as possible.

SMC22307

(8,088 posts)
42. Because someone needed attention?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:20 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Because someone has a major chip on her shoulder?

Because someone has decided to use DU as her personal LiveJournal (or whatever *the kids* are using these days), offering up all sorts of gory details of her life?

Keep it at Facebook, please.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
48. Because that's what Rove is hoping he is creating by starting these 'Hillary is old' meme
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:24 PM
Jun 2014

I mean I know there aren't any DUers here who ascribe to the words of Karl Rove. But Rove knows his tactics. He's like that proverbial pebble tossed into the lake that is Hillary Clinton 2016. He may be a small pebble but he'll generate enough rippling effect that other people will pick up on this 'Hillary is too old' meme to the point that even some democrats may buy into it too.

The_Commonist

(2,518 posts)
57. Because this is an anonymous message board.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:30 PM
Jun 2014

Anonymous message boards seem to bring out the worst in human beings.
Ya jerk!

SleeplessinSoCal

(8,998 posts)
60. I'm an old baby boomer and wonder if we're resented for our numbers
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:34 PM
Jun 2014

There are just so many of us that have a huge effect on the workplace/employment. I imagine younger activists being frustrated by the lack of jobs that boomers don't want to retire from. It's only very recently that Americans have wanted to continue to work and not retire. In some cases because it's necessary to pay bills.

I hope to always be able to earn a paycheck. It's my identity.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
64. I believe the heart of the matter is that many older liberal Democratic activists here often post
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:40 PM
Jun 2014

stuff that questions President Obama's actions, actions that they feel are too close to being moderate republican actions in nature. For example, appointing republicans to sensitive high level government positions, supporting trade deals that are harmful to American workers, supporting incredibly environmentally destructive corporate practices such as hydrofracking and the Keystone Pipeline, continuing the conflict in Afghanistan, etc.

While most of us here agree that the President is doing a pretty good job on social issues, many older posters view the President's apparent friendliness with corporations, particularly Wall Street, with suspicion and contempt, having been steeped in Democratic traditions, and having seen the power of wealthy private interests over our government, our economic well being, our democracy, our livelihoods our rights, and our daily lives, increase twenty fold since Reagan sold us out to the highest bidder.

Younger posters have lived with rule by corporation for much, or most, of their lives, and some don't seem to have a problem with being ruled by corporate oligarchs, if they even understand the reality and danger of rule by wealthy private interests. They've grown up with a Democratic Party that has been contaminated by "profit before people" moderate republicans, formerly known as the DLC, and now calling themselves the Third Way. So a number of younger posters may resent pro-democratic posters who are critical of the President, or other Democratic legislators, when they propose, support, or enact policies that older posters view as dangerously anti-democratic, and anti-Democratic party. The Third Way party republicans know that all they have to do is support some social issues that have no effect on the national/global global economic agenda of the fascists, and that a majority of people will not even be aware that democracy is an illusion, and that their government is being fully controlled by wealthy private interests; ie, become fascist in nature.

This age division is by no means absolute, for there are many younger folks who are even more hip to what is really going on than many of the older posters, and many of them supported, or were out there protesting, with Occupy. These younger folks give many of the older generation hope that the flame of resistance to fascism will continue burning after we are gone. And there are some older folks here who are conservative, and sympathize with the fascists.

So I believe much of the ageism here is primarily being expressed by younger people who are ignorant of history and global economic politics, and therefore don't understand why older liberals might be less than totally thrilled with everything that President Obama has done, so they lash out against older posters in their ignorance.

Here is an example of an older, traditional liberal Democrat, and traditional Democratic ideology. A good representation of many of the older liberal Democrat posters, and their "beliefs".

&feature=kp

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. " Franklin Roosevelt


Response to Zorra (Reply #64)

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
74. You clearly totally missed the point, as fully illustrated by your completely irrelevant strawman
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:58 PM
Jun 2014

statement.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
120. Nice. One of the best descriptions I have seen.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:05 PM
Jun 2014

Unfortunately, we are knee-deep in descriptions, and while most don't rise to this exalted level, I would very much like to try being knee-deep in solutions for just a little while.

Ones that would help people work together and learn how to take control of all this, like the IWW was trying to figure out way back then.

Thank you for that.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
132. Excellent post! Well said!
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 11:35 PM
Jun 2014

I totally agree. It's obvious that there's a bunch of "old" Democrats here who have a very different conception of what being a Democrat means. I'm one of them.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
136. It's not an enlightened opinion....
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 12:51 AM
Jun 2014

" I believe much of the ageism here is primarily being expressed by younger people who are ignorant of history and global economic politics"

It's a sad and unfortunate reality of our time. Very sad.

Javaman

(62,442 posts)
149. This machine kills fascists
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:13 AM
Jun 2014

because of Mr. Guthrie, I too have that on my guitar.

I've been looking for a bumper sticker that reads, "FDR Dem". The Democratic party, in my opinion, has wondered way off the original mission and has chosen the path of least resistance.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
174. Will add my rant although it's weak in respons to your post....
Wed Sep 3, 2014, 09:12 PM
Sep 2014

I was replying to another post down thread when I saw your post....so deleted that one...and here's my rant...which fits better here...FWIW...

----------

It's NOT too Old...Obama isn't Old...it's been Corrupted by Money/Think Tanks/Lobbyists

Just like the Old and Young Upcoming Republican Leadership when you get past McCain and Romney!

Noam Chomsky is "Old"....Chris Hedges is "Old" and Howard Zinn was Old when he Dies and George Carlin was "Old" and Peter Seegar was "Way Old" and even Ralph Nader who did so much Good Stuff when he was Young and still keeps trying...is "Old" and Bill Moyers is "Old" and Robin Williams was "Old" and On and On and On........

Old is age....the Mind who still fights for Truth doesn't get Old....it get's CORRUPTED and that happens no matter WHAT age one is.

So many of all Generations "Speaking Truth to Power." Edward Snowden, 29 Years "Old" speaking "Truth to Power" and Julian Assange 30 Something "Old" when he broke Wikileaks and NEW VOICES AND OLD joining.... So Many Speaking Out....

Ageism is a "Heritage Foundation, Council on Foreign Relations, Pete Petersen Foundation, Koch Brothers, ALEC, Republican Polster, Frank Luntz/ Think Tank Invention to ROT OUR MINDS with DISINFORMATION.

WE ARE ALL TOGETHER.... The "Powers that Be" can't stand that ....so the segment us out and buy media to PROMOTE THE MEME.

It's sickening that people fall for it when they know better.

Monk06

(7,675 posts)
68. Because you're all a bunch of young whipper snappers. Wet behind the ears. Fell down with the
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:43 PM
Jun 2014

last rain. Ain't outa diapers yet..................


Warpy

(110,913 posts)
70. There is always going to be intergenerational friction
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:51 PM
Jun 2014

between the young and old, it's just built into out genes. The young are seen by the old as arrogant and somewhat witless and the old are seen as being set in their ways and anti progress.

When we're forced to sit down and do some real thinking about it, we have to realize that the young only seem that way because they don't have as many years of experience under their belts and if they knew what we do in their 20s, most of them would blow their brains out. The old, especially those of us on the wrong side of 60, have physiological reasons for moving a little more slowly, have learned to work more efficiently since we can't work faster, and have already been down the road the young are just starting on.

The fact that we live in a culture that encourages warfare based on anything they can use to divide us also has to be considered.

However, I don't see a lot of those hot button issues here at DU like rape culture or marriage equality breaking across generational lines. They break along the same dismal lines they do in the larger and less enlightened culture. The only difference between young and old on these issues is vocabulary.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
71. Because people aren't taking the Olive Garden, pitbull and sexism bait any more.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:54 PM
Jun 2014

And...it's easier to alert on something and get a hide (YAY WIN!!!!! That's with mind you) than hash it out.

You'd be surprised at how many REALLY REALLY old people are more liberal than middle aged people. After a while, nothing shocks--been there, done that, tried this, saw that, got the tee shirt and the postcards too!

Be nice if we were all nicer to one another--getting people "HIDES" because it's easier to shut them up than hear what they are trying to say doesn't make DU a good place. Sometimes, when people get vociferous, it's coming from a place of pain--ask what people mean, find out what they're saying BEFORE shutting 'em up. At least give it a try...

Scott6113

(56 posts)
73. Yea!
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 02:55 PM
Jun 2014

"we believe that people deserve to be treated as individuals and not judged as part of a greater whole"

My 59 year-old white male self thanks you. Life is change. You can change at any age. Advanced age is just a lame excuse to stop growing. Certain things do decline, some with years, some depending on how healthy you are. You can fight it. I choose to. I find myself further left as time goes by. Go figure.

justhanginon

(3,287 posts)
102. I agree. At 77 i have become more and more
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 05:38 PM
Jun 2014

liberal. Not radical (yet) but definitely way more liberal than my younger friends. Can't run with the mob but I can damn sure light their torches and sharpen their pitchforks when the time comes.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
80. Because Hillary is 67 and the trolls are making sure
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:19 PM
Jun 2014

we hate anyone over what ever age is in vogue with them these days.

But never forget, in the words of Margaret Meade, "there is no force more powerful than a post menopausal woman with zest"

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
81. It's shorthand for demagogues. Whites are...Blacks are...Women are...Men are...Jews are...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:20 PM
Jun 2014

Pigeon holes are for pigeons.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
82. The problem is resistance to diversity
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:23 PM
Jun 2014

and efforts to silence and expel posters whose life experiences and hence political views vary from the majority demographic on the site. Since that demographic is older and whiter than the population at large, that is part of what is at play, but it really isn't about age per se. It's about a reactionary view of the world that rejects the concerns of those who are not middle-class, white, and focused on a narrowly proscribed view of politics. We may tend to think of that view as old because it is reactionary, but young people can also be reactionary. I know that when I myself use the term old, I am generally thinking in terms of antiquated views rather than chronological age.

The age issue, I believe, has some influence in that anyone who has had any higher education in the liberal arts in the past quarter century has been exposed to thinking about race, class, and gender. They may also have grown up in a more diverse environment and K-12 educational system, which may lead to less resistance to difference. There are young people who have had no such exposure, and there are older people who are willing to listen and consider the voices of the subaltern. However, the likelihood of being exposed to such ideas is greater if they have been educated in recent decades.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
83. Wha?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:25 PM
Jun 2014
- You say something sonny? SPEAK UP! We elderly don't hear that well because we always have other things on our minds. And further than that, whenever possible.....



K&R



This old geezer has a thick crust!

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
90. No one talked ageism when they were around Pete Seeger.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jun 2014

Democratic Underground is not a representative cross section of the American public, but even if it were, progressives oppose "profiling", and should be just as opposed to age profiling as they are to racial profiling.

Good post Kurska. Every generation confronts progressive challenges to the then status quo. And then the next one carries the ball on from there. It's not a perfect linear process but it has been the general sweep of history for many centuries now.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
93. Because it's better to hate on one group at a time here.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jun 2014

Instead of coming together it seems like people prefer to tear this party apart one group at a time. Republicans don't even need to lift a finger to defeat us in this state, they can just sit back and laugh as we do all the work for them.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
95. Divide and conquer.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:08 PM
Jun 2014

Anything to avoid talking about the corporate destruction of this country, the assaults on journalism and whistleblowers and the Constitution, and the handing over of what remains of our media to those who are dismantling our country.

People are realizing that the relevant battle is not usually Red versus Blue anymore. It is the One Percent against the rest of us.

The attempts to divide us in any possible way, to keep us from uniting against what is being done to us, will continue...

navarth

(5,927 posts)
100. this.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:31 PM
Jun 2014

And ya know, it seems like they're really having to scrape the bottom of the barrel trying to divert and divide. Age?? Baby Boomers? What. The. Fuck.

If that's all they've got, we might be in better shape than I thought around here.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
109. Yep
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:16 PM
Jun 2014

We've been going through all the ways to focus on our differences rather than what we hold in common, ageism had to eventually come up.

I wonder what's next, after privilege, sexism and ageism?

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
103. K&R
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 05:51 PM
Jun 2014

My grandmother was born in 1906 and died in 1987. She believed in gay rights back in the 1960s. She loved everyone and believed in love above all. I still miss that woman today just as much as I did the minute she died. I don't think all older people think alike. I don't think all of any group of people think alike, but we all have the same basic necessities in life. That is what we should concentrate on, not so much what we disagree on, but what we agree on. Our government is still, to this day, denying some of us those basic necessities in life. We are better off working together, instead of alienating each other, group by group.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
137. My gran would have been 103 years old if she was still alive
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 02:11 AM
Jun 2014

she was fine with it when my aunt came out 40 years ago. My parents who are in their late 70's now were also fine with it as was everyone else in the family young and old. Most of us are now middle aged or older, and we never changed our views from the dark side because we just weren't there to begin with.

People really need to find a way to get along.

Corey_Baker08

(2,157 posts)
110. Im 24 years Old & I Support Gay Marriage
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:21 PM
Jun 2014

I can relate to you more than you think, just not openly. To me gay marriage is a matter of civil rights, period. We Will Legalize Gay Marriage I am certain of that...

Congrats on finding a man that you Love & I wish you all the best!!!

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
114. Thank you for the OP.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:59 PM
Jun 2014

Everyone here should understand that the older people here are part of the 42%. Just because the GOP is full of so many old folks doesn't mean that all old folks are conservative, or close-minded, or bigoted. There always seems to be some wedge to put between us to weaken us, and we should not rise to the bait.

It gives me hope when I see young people like you speak out.

armed_and_liberal

(246 posts)
115. If you don't like old people..
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:06 PM
Jun 2014

then get the hell off my lawn!

FWIW I was a progressive when calling yourself that was an invitation to getting your ass kicked in rural Georgia. I got mine kicked a few times.

DesertDiamond

(1,616 posts)
121. Kurska, first of all....... {{{{{{{{{{{{HUGGGGG!!!!!!}}}}}}}} and thank you!!! You have the greatest
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:10 PM
Jun 2014

heart! And you are SO wise!! My mentor Daisaku Ikeda once said, "Enemies don't change enemies, but friends can change friends." He also said another thing that changed my life: "You need to learn to respect people at the level they are currently at." Everyone is evolving to the best of their ability -- and, as you point out, ESPECIALLY here on DU. Criticizing people who aren't as evolved as we want them to be will never enable them to evolve. Kind, respectful dialogue will most definitely help both sides evolve.

Overseas

(12,121 posts)
124. The New Right needs to get the animosity stimulated to support cutting social security. If you can
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:25 PM
Jun 2014

forget about the nicer older people, you can be meaner and cut because the animosity troops will also be working hard to convince you that the cash won't be there for you when you retire, so why should you help the current miserable geezers?

They won't want you to realize that they are your tax dollars and we can decide to make social security even stronger and extend Medicare to Everyone instead of fighting among ourselves.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
125. Nearly every individual or group that criticizes Obama gets smeared on DU.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:27 PM
Jun 2014

Why should old white guys be privileged?

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
127. Great point.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:47 PM
Jun 2014

Sorry to break it to anyone, but all those young people who marched in the 1960s are now old.

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
129. Youngun Frustration
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:59 PM
Jun 2014

Probably younger set just frustrated that people older than them have different ideals. That will never change.

Remember the 60-70 something boomers are the 'never trust anyone over 30' generation.

I honestly think oldsters like me by and large are more the "I don't give a tiny rats ass" what others think of my beliefs and my age. The oldsters are content in knowing the clock slows for no one and these frustrated younguns will be exactly where we are at some point with the caveat that their younguns will see them as the old closeminded fogeys.

Karma

mahina

(17,506 posts)
140. Because divide and conquer works?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:30 AM
Jun 2014

I haven't seen the nasty grams, just a few responses.

For what it's worth, I look up to our kupuna who came before and lit the path.

I'm not here a lot and when I do get here, i read lbn and greatest threads, maybe latest posts.

We'll get through it, just like we got through all the rest of it.



eridani

(51,907 posts)
141. 46% of people 60a+ voted in favor of marriage equality in 2012 in WA State
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:35 AM
Jun 2014

In Seattle that was well over 50%. From my phonebanking, the older people most likely to support marriage equality were widows and widowers.. As one recently bereaved 85 year old woman said " You just have to take love wherever you can find it."

 

imthevicar

(811 posts)
142. I'm an older white Male,
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:46 AM
Jun 2014

I have been robbed at gun point, in a inner city, while at work, By all accounts I should be a Black Hatin' Red neck. However, I'm a mixed bag, liberal Much further left than most of you young'uns.

Pakid

(478 posts)
143. I am 60
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:50 AM
Jun 2014

and as liberal as they come. My parents never taught me to hate anyone just for the hell of it. I support gay marriage, equal rights for all citizens, immigration reform, a women right to choose, health care for all and the list goes on, in fact most of the people that I know in my age group are not exactly right wing most would be called moderates. Maybe it just my choices in friends

anti partisan

(429 posts)
144. Great observation
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 08:14 AM
Jun 2014

Is saying a racist comment about black people and then saying "ok, but not ALL black people" still racist?
Is saying you just don't like the gay people who act "faggoty" still discriminatory?

Making rash, offensive generalizations about a group is never good.

I think a lot of people tend to use "people stuck in the past generation's mindset" interchangeably with "old people", and it's just plain wrong.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
146. this is divide and conquer
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 08:32 AM
Jun 2014

the "hillary is inevitable" folks are counting on a bunch of miffed people saying "see see, Obama was too young for this job!" Meanwhile, the right winmg is also trying to drum up youth resentment "see, those boomers will screw you outta your SS!"

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
150. When DU gets tied up in knots over something,
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:16 AM
Jun 2014

it's usually because some Democrat is being criticized in a big way, here or out in the real world, valid or not. I can't speak to this one, because I've been working long hours and haven't read much here the last month or so.

As an "older" person, though, I have to disagree with some of what you wrote. People around my age are often MORE progressive than young people. We were there for the civil rights movement. We were there for so much big social change, and we saw our leaders dying. It's true that it was harder for the gay population to be "out," and that marriage WAS out, but that doesn't mean we weren't there supporting our gay brothers and sisters. My straight mom had a good friend who was a lesbian; we spent our family gatherings together, we called her my adopted "aunt," and she often picked me up and whisked me off for the day or the weekend, getting her "kid" fix, because she never expected to have any of her own. I know the struggles she went through, and why. She died a suicide, unable to reconcile her life and her identity with what society thought about her. I've grieved for her for 4 decades now. I'm obviously not part of your percentage of older people who are afraid of homosexuality, and neither is my mom, who was born in 1938. My straight son got his ridiculous "ordination" from the "universal life" something or other so that he could perform marriages for his friends, and he has regularly done so for 10 years. For his straight and his gay friends, whether their unions were legally recognized or not.

While young people overwhelmingly supported Obama and helped elect him, I never wanted to see him become president. Not because he's black; my black nieces understand this. Because he's not progressive enough for this older woman.

I do agree with, and support, your last paragraph. I just have to point out that many of the civil liberties that have been eroded during the lifetime of younger people were fought for, and won, by their elders. And, of course, I have to point this out:


DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
152. understood, but let us also consider
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:39 AM
Jun 2014

It is good to see that you have not changed, however, keep in mind, while many Boomers have fought the good fight, there are many, from PJ O rourke on, who have sadly done the opposite. I have fought with Boomers who proudly tell me how radical they were, and because they know that, they know liberalism is mush. As much as I would love you to be the face of your generation, there are others, especially when yuou cosnider the two boomer presidents were W. (nothign need be said) and Bill, who, for all the good he did, also did a lot of bad, especially because he made it possible for democrats to demonize the poor, as well as gutting out a lot of what FDR fought for in the regulations that should have defined us. It is okay if you feel Obama was not progressive, but we cannot ignore the damage Bill did.

To sum: Yes, I love the Boomers that kept their soul, but there are some who sadly, did not.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
154. I think that's true of any group.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:50 AM
Jun 2014

People evolve and change. FWIW, I am not now and have never been a fan of Bill Clinton. He wasn't progressive enough for me, and my first introduction left a bad taste behind, anyway.

It was that 60 minutes thing discussing his cheating, with HRC saying something about not being one of those women who "stand by their man" when they are dishonored, while she stood by her man for votes.

I haven't forgotten the damage that Bill did.

I didn't actually know how far out of the mainstream I supposedly am until I found DU in '02. I met some really great people; I also discovered that I'm simply too far left to be a good Democrat. As a matter of fact, listening to DUers oppose things under a Republican president that they then fight to support under a Democratic President left me with little respect for the "mainstream" Democrat. The Democratic Party is not "progressive" enough for me.

So be it.

 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
157. Some people need to build their self esteem
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:13 AM
Jun 2014

by hating!

Currently it is allowed/fashionable to hate whites, white males, old folks. So if you are a old white male those that need to hate go orgasmic about their hate.

Mr. T said it best, "Pity the fool!"

OregonBlue

(7,744 posts)
159. It has more to do with where you were raised and live then your age. Bigotry seems to flourish
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:41 AM
Jun 2014

in parts of the Mid-west and South and among some religions like Baptists, Mormons, and Evangelicals.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
160. Most of the original hippies are now old white people
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 11:06 AM
Jun 2014

We've always been a pretty progressive bunch and believe in peace and justice for everyone, including women, LGBT folks, and people of all ethnic persuasions.

TBF

(31,922 posts)
164. The moneyed class will do whatever they can
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 11:52 AM
Jun 2014

to pit people against each other. Age, gender, religion, guns, etc ... - everyone is fighting over these issues and ignoring the fact that the 1% is robbing us blind.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
166. I would just make a generalization....
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 12:25 PM
Jun 2014

Human beings are wired to label and scapegoat. Especially when we're stressing out....finding someone to blame is a relief. An unhelpful one, but a relief nonetheless.

Even though we all know people who don't fit a given stereotype, we still do it to one degree or another.

I'm glad when stereotypes get challenged. You have to do it over and over, though....challenge others, but maybe more important, check yourself....... never ending process....

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
168. Because the democratic leadership is too old
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 01:01 PM
Jun 2014

These seniors need to step aside and make room for people who have the knowledge and training to face the real world. That, and they really ought to know how to use email.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
173. It's NOT too Old...Obama isn't Old...it's been Corrupted by Money/Think Tanks/Lobbyists
Wed Sep 3, 2014, 08:38 PM
Sep 2014

Just like the Old and Young Upcoming Republican Leadership when you get past McCain and Romney!

Noam Chomsky is "Old"....Chris Hedges is "Old" and Howard Zinn was Old when he Dies and George Carlin was "Old" and Peter Seegar was "Way Old" and even Ralph Nader who did so much Good Stuff when he was Young and still keeps trying...is "Old" and Bill Moyers is "Old" and Robin Williams was "Old" and On and On and On........

Old is age....the Mind who still fights for Truth doesn't get Old....it get's CORRUPTED and that happens no matter WHAT age one is.

So many of all Generations "Speaking Truth to Power." Edward Snowden, 29 Years "Old" speaking "Truth to Power" and Julian Assange 30 Something "Old" when he broke Wikileaks and NEW VOICES AND OLD joining.... So Many Speaking Out....

Ageism is a "Heritage Foundation, Council on Foreign Relations, Pete Petersen Foundation, Koch Brothers, ALEC, Republican Polster, Frank Luntz/ Think Tank Invention to ROT OUR MINDS with DISINFORMATION.

WE ARE ALL TOGETHER.... The "Powers that Be" can't stand that ....so the segment us out and buy media to PROMOTE THE MEME.

It's sickening that people fall for it when they know better.

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