I too agree the citizenry and police should be equally armed. The difference, though, is that what I mean by that is that no one, including the police, should be routinely carrying around lethal weaponry.

And I sincerely doubt that the cops taking their break at a shitty pizza emporium pulled up in an APC or similar tank. Context is sort of important, here. The executed cops weren't in the process of taking anyone's civil liberties away from them. The Millers seem to have been the victims of some pretty confused (but common) thinking, the sort that leads some nutball to kill a turbaned Sikh because he's skeered of Muslims.

I object to the militarization of our police forces, but it appears that ending that militarization overnight would simply cede the edge in firepower to the likes of Jerad and Amanda Miller. I object to that, too.

The increasing militarization of police increases paranoia about the police And it's not helped by the way police have been acting, or in many cases over-reacting.

In the US. On the left they tend to be Occupiers, on the right teapartiers. The danger of these two groups embracing their common interests is real to both of the party leaderships. The parties will feed division to their respective disenfranchised to try to make sure they never explore their common interests.

"Second Amendment Solutions" and First Amendment Solutions.

"who was also pro-marijuana legalization." Let me tell you, if you're stoned, you're not going out and killing anyone. Instead, you'd be going to your local diner and having something to eat, go home, and go to bed. I'd bet my right arm that they were, in fact, drunk. Alcohol fuels violence. Pot simply does not. So, don't use that as any kind of an excuse here. That was a very ignorant statement.

If they would legalize pot nationwide, I think we would have a lot less violence in the country, not more.

There's one post on his Facebook Page where he posts this:

Jerad Dwain Miller is on the fourth line from the bottom in the list of signers.

The statement starts out, "When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one sovereign citizen to dissolve the political support which has connected him with that government which has given him protection..."

http://sonsoflibertyonline.org/signed-declaration.php

by severe repression from heavily armed militarized police forces coordinated at a national level.

The heavily armed Bundaloons threatening federal BLM agents were met by fuckall. Nothing. Nada.

And Bundaloons have gone off and murdered policemen for no apparent reason other than "look what we can do".

Yeah I see the fucking equivalence. Not the fuck at all.

Are they dead? In jail? Tortured? Get a fucking grip. Cops took their stuff and destroyed it. STUFF. They got gassed with stuff nervous girls carry. The injured amounted to...how many? Deaths...how many?

We've just passed the 35th of May. The Chinese are entitled to say "severe." But the word would probably be banned.

And maybe you could remember #iranelection. The ones who got out of Edin alive could tell you about "severe" if they dared.

HYPERBOLE DOESN'T HELP.

Good point.

If you want American standards, it was also nothing to what happened down South in the fight against segregation. We've come a long way, baby. Sorry to disappoint you with progress.

Yet again, WHY didn't the NSA pick up on this? Why are we spending massive amounts to spy on everybody and yahoos and idjits can still run wild in Boston, Santa Barbara, and LV? I mean, their crazy shit was all ONLINE. But their easy, unfettered access to guns was not the problem, no sir.

... to just boot up a laptop and legally read facebook.

They claim they are stopping terrorist activity, but have yet to name one time. As many have noted, this is most likely spying for other reasons, including corporations. They knew about these people. The guy was a felon. But was still pictured with guns and seen on the Bundy Ranch with guns. How come he wasn't busted immediately? How many others at Chez Bundy (who seemed to be able to just camp out for months) had the same background?

Rec

...there's a:



- K&R

the poor guy heard shots and drew his weapon and approached Jared, not knowing that Amanda was there too. Then she shot and killed him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/09/las-vegas-shooting-suspects_n_5472883.html

As some woman on another site scolded me earlier today, people need to stop assuming that mass shooters must be male. It can be the last mistake you ever make.

Not from the gender perspective, but from just general 'how do good guys commit to killing'?

A while back there was a shooting at the Tacoma Mall in WA state. A kid went on a rampage with a rifle. A guy with a CPL and a handgun intervened. He DID have a positive effect on the attack, after the confrontation, no one else was shot. But he himself was shot and paralyzed, because he gave Maldonado the chance to put down his gun. He verbally confronted the kid, instead of just shooting him.

When you go toe to toe with one of these lunatics, just having a gun isn't enough. You have to be as willing to kill, as they are.
That's a rough mindset to get into.

The store was mostly empty by that point; there was no need for him to intervene; no one was in danger (except for him). He was trying to be a hero.

Just distributed to a lot of places that didn't need it? Instead of places that were actually targeted?
I think some localities' greed has come back to roost. You'd think the WTC was in Ohio or something.

...but they're practically sinking under the weight of all that surplus equipment, which is now going to protect us from the scary Mexicans. The residents are on food stamps--if they can get them--but all the deputies have TWO vehicles. I think that's Jim Webb County, but I could be wrong.

It's a huge boondoggle. A billions of dollars boondoggle.

Easy for them to act like xenophobic hawks and play at needing fire power. I guess they didn't think that one through.

Which has 3 tanks owned by the city and more by the county. One is a tank that can house a swat team with a machine gun turret that can stop automatic weapons fire. Another is an armored vehicle that can remove the walls form a mobile home or wood frame house. They tried this one out first on a stand off with a guy locked in his house and believed to be armed - no hostages. They started removing walls and the perpetrator/victim locked himself in the bathroom an committed suicide. Apparently this was considered a success because they then bought the armored vehicle. I personally was horrified by this story told to me by a swat team commander. The armored tank cost 250 thousand dollars - homeland security money. The vehicle that takes down buildings was less but still more than my house I remember the figure of 150,000 and was bought with drug money.

going at fire sale prices to those who want to plus-up their goodies, or compete with the schlubs who got in on the porkfest the first time out...

It was unsettling enough to round a corner in Penn Station into the barrel of a very very big gun. And, thank God, a not-easily-startled national guardsman.

Jared often posted how the cops beat up peaceful occupy protestors but not the armed ones, for example. His point was to arm all protestors because consequences.

That's policy from the micro to the macro level. LEO will overuse force against unarmed protesters, then turn around and back down to Cliven Bundy types. We'll invade countries without WMD (even as we lie about them having such) while leaving N. Korea the hell alone because they've got nukes.

But if you merely arm up in turn, you end up with people saying they need to, because it's an arms race.

Militarization of the police and police use of force.

The national security surveillance state.

The war on drugs.

Or maybe people who care about those issues are fringe malcontents and the good people in the center know what's best.

I don't think that opposition to the "war on drugs" has as much pushback from the right as from the left.

I'd call 'em Darryl Gates conservatives.

I imagine a lot of social conservatives are like that. They're still mad at the hippies.

But the libertarian righties are supporting drug law reforms.

And even some mainstream Republicans support things like the Right on Crime initiative: http://www.rightoncrime.com/

They may be "old school" but they vote.

The policy makers are coming around because they see an opportunity to make a buck from legalization I suspect. Plus, it's a source of tax revenue, potentially.

They'll have to sell their constituents on why something that was BAAAAD is now GOOOOD. We'll see how they do it!!

it did not save them from the surprise attack that is part of so many massacres.

this puts a lie (as if it wasn't obvious to anyone who can think) that more armed citizenry makes people safer.

RW talking heads are having with this type of crowd. They are practically begging them to kill Obama, Libruhls, and the like! Savage, Limpballs, O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck, and that other douche bag who's name escapes me (he of the"I don't want to kick your ass old man" fame when he accosted the father of one of the Aurora C., shooting victims with his open carry bull shit)! I am not celebrating ANYTHING from this despicable crime, but I would like the attention to focus on the RW rhetoric that is pushing these nut jobs further and further towards real violence. These people want to be heroes to their cause, especially to their own idols such as the douche bags referred to above. I wouldn't be surprised that their recent fun with the Cliven Bundy crowd was at least partially responsible for them to have graduated from words to actions.

It makes me worry about when the right wing gets back in control. Obama might be giving the cops lots of guns and ammo, but I think about the right wing government leaders who will use it and HOW they will use it in the future.

Maybe I am just the flip side of the coin, paranoid from the left, but consider this:
I saw a news story about something that happened and a police officer from another country was talking about the incident. He politely warned the person who had done something that disturbed the peace, but wasn't violent or aggressive. This police officer spoke calmly and without seething hatred and without an explosive violence bubbling just under the surface. Even the video of the police officers responding to the nuisance call was calm.

My first thought was that if it had been American cops, they would go in, shoot the family dog, taze any infants in the house, beat down any elderly people that were too slow to get away, shoot the nonviolent offender, go on TV and claim how volatile the situation was and how afraid for their lives the cops were, then call it a day. Just another day in America, at this point.

Yes, I think about what right wingers will do with police that are so militarized AND so violent at their disposal. I tend to think less guns, not more, is the solution. America needs some serious anger management and therapy for the paranoia. We are STILL suffering from the paranoia effects of the atmosphere Dubya's administration created using 9/11 as an excuse. It has to stop somewhere or we will all end up in the streets killing each other. Oh, wait, that is already happening.

So, a lunatic libertarian shares a few concerns. So what?

There is one major difference between the Las Vegas killers and me. We might both express concern about the police build up but at least I am not causing it. They are a self fulfilling prophecy. They rail against the police being heavily armed while threatening them with violence. They are one of the primary reasons the police are so nervous. They literally declared war as they gunned down two officers. That is no way to encourage disarmament.

It is a classic arms race. More weapons in the community means they need more weapons to stay ahead. I know that 9-11 and fear of terrorism facilitated this but I believe the police are scared of their own citizens now. Sick and twisted but they aren't wrong.

I have a great deal of concern about the militarization of the police but you know what...I don't blame them. Every single vehicle stop, arrest warrant, domestic dispute, etc. has become potentially lethal because of the crazed gun culture. The police are paranoid about the fire power that they face and they every right to be.

As long as the loose cannons have loose cannons then the police will arm themselves with whatever they can get their hands on.