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cali

(114,904 posts)
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:34 PM Jun 2014

Fine. I'll say it. I won't vote for HIllary if she's the nominee.

and yeah, I'll gladly leave DU for the duration.

I think she's a despicable opportunist, dishonest, a big supporter of the military industrial complex and much more. Almost all of it counter to the democratic ideals I believe in. I couldn't vote for her and remain true to my beliefs. And yes, I do think the Supreme Court is important, but I cannot support Hillary.

End of story.

422 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fine. I'll say it. I won't vote for HIllary if she's the nominee. (Original Post) cali Jun 2014 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jun 2014 #1
By "swarm" do you mean Democrats? LOL KittyWampus Jun 2014 #70
yes, only on the new DU are actual Democrats trolls or swarms... imagine this; dionysus Jun 2014 #406
good point! wyldwolf Nov 2014 #410
Me too Enthusiast Jun 2014 #165
I can vouch for your honesty and courage fadedrose Jun 2014 #377
Courage Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #413
she is very similar to Howard Dean which is why he is supporting her and you had no problem JI7 Jun 2014 #2
To the left of Dean at this point. joshcryer Jun 2014 #6
To the left of Obama doesn't take much - TBF Jun 2014 #92
nt merrily Jun 2014 #144
I am a big Dean fan, not sure they are that similar but even if they arent randys1 Jun 2014 #81
we have plenty of choices on the D side. ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #98
Yes, but it is Hillary that they say will probably be the next president question everything Jun 2014 #117
I honestly do not think she will run. ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #122
Based on what? She sure has been doing a good imitation of a wannabe nominee since 2007. merrily Jun 2014 #151
she has that air of Palin about her PatrynXX Jun 2014 #392
Her recent statement, about being broke when they left the Oval Office ChairmanAgnostic Jun 2014 #394
And don't forget that Hillary's so-called "debt" was being fully financed by her buddies on Wall Street w/ their generous contributions to the Clinton's legal defense fund. . . InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #401
she is not a lot like Howard. He was my governor. I'm quite familiar with cali Jun 2014 #186
i still have my Dean Campaign sign. i was on vacation in Maine, it was after the primaries were dionysus Jun 2014 #352
She isnt Howard Dean. She doesnt support the 99%. She is in the pocket of Wall Street. rhett o rick Jun 2014 #265
she supports the 99 as much as Dean does , why do you think he is supporting her JI7 Jun 2014 #270
I was a proud Dean supporter.. OLDMADAM Jun 2014 #279
I was the only one in my caucus to support Wesley Clark that year PatrynXX Jun 2014 #391
Would it matter who the Republican nominee was? el_bryanto Jun 2014 #3
you think a teabagger would do better than Romney ? JI7 Jun 2014 #8
I think they would do better at fucking up the country, yes. el_bryanto Jun 2014 #17
What the GOP want for a president defacto7 Jun 2014 #280
Oh, so you'll take your $8 million and live in poverty? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #4
I love that quote, and I agree with the OP. I will focus on Congress if Hillary is the nominee. Now sabrina 1 Jun 2014 #86
And watch the country sinks and deteriorate beyond repair question everything Jun 2014 #132
Tierra's post consisted solely of a quote from John Quincy Adams, so your liberal bashing is merrily Jun 2014 #158
Than why post it, unless you are trying to send a message? (nt) question everything Jun 2014 #189
Why assume John Quincy Adams was a liberal? merrily Jun 2014 #194
Really? All that with one vote? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #197
This ^ ^ ^ Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #216
What does this mean? question everything Jun 2014 #233
It means I agree with the post I'm responding Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2014 #236
Thanks. Always learn something new here (nt) question everything Jun 2014 #240
You inadvertently posted the problem Doctor_J Jun 2014 #341
Agreed workinclasszero Jun 2014 #343
So voting for anyone but Hillary makes those bad things happen? AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #422
yes ... jimlup Jun 2014 #5
heh bigtree Jun 2014 #7
Heh heh heh.... lumpy Jun 2014 #62
+1 question everything Jun 2014 #139
Sorry you feel that way. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #9
If she is the nominee and you won't vote for her don't let the door hit your ass on the way out lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #10
On the way out of what? The country? She's already said she'd gladly leave DU "for the duration." merrily Jun 2014 #161
Then we will see her in about ten years AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #176
I'm guessing Cali knows that The duration" is a WW II term meaning "however long it takes." merrily Jun 2014 #399
The Democratic party lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #227
You're in a position to kick her out of the Democratic Party? merrily Jun 2014 #398
Obviously I am simply stating a perspective based on the OPs view that the OP will NOT vote for lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #400
Again, I doubt party leaders want someone out of the party simply because he or she is unable merrily Jun 2014 #404
LOL, temper temper! nt Logical Jun 2014 #364
no temper at all. The OP won't vote for the Democratic nominee should consider moving to another lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #367
This description doesn't bode well for any nominee. rug Jun 2014 #11
Vent, vent, to your heart's content. Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #12
I doubt it. This is how many felt in 2000 and voted for Nader, giving us Bush question everything Jun 2014 #119
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ calimary Jun 2014 #128
Not sure why you are aiming this at me question everything Jun 2014 #137
Sorry - didn't mean to come on so strong. calimary Jun 2014 #275
Isnt that extortion? If you dont want a Republican in the WH, dont nominate H. Clinton-Sachs. rhett o rick Jun 2014 #224
I'm not totally convinced anybody else on our team has the clout to win it. I think she can win. calimary Jun 2014 #267
That's the thinking that's got us where we are today. At some point we must stand up rhett o rick Jun 2014 #269
Thank you! 840high Dec 2014 #415
I'm convinced that Clinton can't win. The right will show up to vote against her in droves .... Scuba Jun 2014 #310
"If I don't get Bernie, I'll defacto vote for the other party." Isn't that extortion? kjones Jun 2015 #417
I hope you aren't implying that I said that or believe that. Can you spell S T R A W M A N ? rhett o rick Jun 2015 #418
Implying? Hell, you came right out and called the similar extortion for Hilary supporters et al. kjones Jun 2015 #419
You implied that I said the following: ""If I don't get Bernie, I'll defacto vote for the other rhett o rick Jun 2015 #420
I thought Gore won that vote. merrily Jun 2014 #164
As long as we rely on the electoral system, Gore lost question everything Jun 2014 #187
Your post contradicts your subject line. merrily Jun 2014 #196
What a terrible system we have when we must rely on that. nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #222
how very Democratic of you... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #13
Do you see a distinction between Democratic Principals and the Democratic Party? nt el_bryanto Jun 2014 #27
I dont think this forum is called Democratic Principles Underground is it? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #66
Not to put to fine a point on it but it's not called Democratic Party Underground either. nt el_bryanto Jun 2014 #68
uh if you read the TOS you will see that yes in fact it is! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #71
er, the TOS say something about supporting progressive principles Doctor_J Jun 2014 #76
It says something about supporting Democrats too clue one.its in the name...its not Progressive U. VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #321
You missed the point. Doctor_J Jun 2014 #339
no you missed the very name of the site. Its DEMOCRATIC Underground VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #355
And many Democrats, both in and out of DC, don't like RTTB Doctor_J Jun 2014 #360
I think the "TOS reminder" is like Godwin's Law on DU. beerandjesus Jun 2014 #380
wishful thinking G_j Jun 2014 #307
Of course, you are reading LWolf Jun 2014 #397
Democratic principles are the principles of the Democratic party, by definition. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #126
So if the Democratic party declared Male Dominance as an official el_bryanto Jun 2014 #150
Yes, just as slavery was a Democratic principle 150 years ago. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #156
Yes it would shawn703 Jun 2014 #160
Then we have no principles and might as well disband the Party. Scuba Jun 2014 #311
I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate on that - it looks like a non-sequitur to me. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #362
If Icky Ricky Santorum declares himself a Democrat and we adopt his hateful policies as our own .... Scuba Jun 2014 #366
Agree, but not all Democrats adhere to Democratic Principles. rhett o rick Jun 2015 #421
I will side with Warren over you. Reasons why are obvious. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #14
God, but, that "left is actually right" stuff got old fast. merrily Jun 2014 #167
She is not a friend of the 99%. Why would you back her? She is Wall Street all the way. rhett o rick Jun 2014 #225
"Are you one that believes in trickle-down?" Excellent mind reader you are. NCTraveler Jun 2014 #309
Still has to be better than the repuke candidate. NightWatcher Jun 2014 #15
This person doesn't think there is a enough of a difference. iandhr Jun 2014 #18
Supreme Court, Supreme Court, Supreme Court NightWatcher Jun 2014 #25
+1 iandhr Jun 2014 #29
Amen, NightWatcher leftynyc Jun 2014 #42
A Democratic Senator will surely filibuster that nomination. OnyxCollie Jun 2014 #88
THIS PERSON IS WHY BUSH WON VERMONT Capt. Obvious Jun 2014 #26
If you read my post I was talking about Florida. iandhr Jun 2014 #52
200,000+ registered dems in FL voted for bush frylock Jun 2014 #384
this person, that would be me, lives in Vermont cali Jun 2014 #190
Democratic apathy gave us the Tea Party in 2010. Beacool Jun 2014 #234
The bigger loss in 2010 was the gubernatorial and state legislative elections because StevieM Jun 2014 #282
Hi, Stevie!!! Beacool Jun 2014 #348
hey Bea! got something for you! dionysus Jun 2014 #354
Wow, that's very different. Beacool Jun 2014 #359
a full body bankie :) dionysus Jun 2014 #405
Thank you, sweets. Beacool Jun 2014 #407
anythin for you, Bea :D dionysus Jun 2014 #408
no, young and independant voter apathy gave us the tea party in 2010.. frylock Jun 2014 #385
People like you got Bush elected. iandhr Jun 2014 #16
That is true, but that won't happen again, most people know the realities lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #20
This person clearly doesn't iandhr Jun 2014 #24
"Most", and your characterization is right on. lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #38
+1 jeff47 Jun 2014 #30
Maybe the party should look at that right now so pipoman Jun 2014 #124
The point is this is utterly independent of the party. jeff47 Jun 2014 #169
The Supreme Court got Bush "elected." OnyxCollie Jun 2014 #94
And people like them are banking on people like you joeglow3 Jun 2014 #133
uh no, honey. I voted for Gore. Didn't care for Nader and I live in VERMONT cali Jun 2014 #193
Uh...no. progressoid Jun 2014 #229
Do you think that the purists care? Beacool Jun 2014 #232
Bullshit. The Supreme Court blocked the recount. Gore won the vote. morningfog Jun 2014 #245
no, people like the 200,000+ registered dems in FL that voted for bush.. frylock Jun 2014 #386
I won't either, but I've never made any secret of that.... mike_c Jun 2014 #19
Thanks for letting us know. We sort of figured that out MineralMan Jun 2014 #21
This TeamPooka Jun 2014 #78
Thanks! MineralMan Jun 2014 #80
+100000000000000000 crazylikafox Jun 2014 #97
Well said. Thanks (nt) question everything Jun 2014 #141
Well Said Gothmog Jun 2014 #168
I vote for Democrats also. But I refuse to vote for DINO's. I refuse to vote for Democrats that rhett o rick Jun 2014 #226
+1,000 Scuba Jun 2014 #313
Thanks for saying it so much better than I could!(nt) sunnystarr Jun 2014 #244
LOL! Unannounced. That's hilarious. morningfog Jun 2014 #246
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2014 #363
I'm goin' for the Democrats. saltpoint Jun 2014 #22
Ciao! FSogol Jun 2014 #23
Well aren't you special? Sheldon Cooper Jun 2014 #28
Cali Is the Anti-Hillary. MineralMan Jun 2014 #32
She certainly lives up to the requirements of the job. Sheldon Cooper Jun 2014 #34
There you go. MineralMan Jun 2014 #39
I will not either. Maedhros Jun 2014 #31
That will depend on the primary elections. MineralMan Jun 2014 #37
I want to let the DLC'ers know right now that if you stick with Clinton-Sachs, the apple of rhett o rick Jun 2014 #251
Nope. jeff47 Jun 2014 #40
Rand Paul thanks you for your support and hopes that you can convince other CAG Jun 2014 #33
If you dont want a Rand Paul victory, then dont nominate Clinton-Sachs. It's on you. nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #253
The problem with stands like yours jeff47 Jun 2014 #35
+100 Duppers Jun 2014 #63
So you're saying that supporting more and more conservative Dems will move the party to the left???? Doctor_J Jun 2014 #101
No. Read the fucking post. jeff47 Jun 2014 #166
No kidding. Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #260
+100000 Phlem Jun 2014 #175
The oligarchs are doing the manipulating and most just go along. There are two parties both rhett o rick Jun 2014 #255
Yes, because it turns out you have to have vast money to run jeff47 Jun 2014 #332
Our only hope is to get a populist candidate and avoid the Wall Street hacks. nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #335
No. our only hope is us. jeff47 Jun 2014 #338
better to have a corporatist to be handed down from on high frylock Jun 2014 #387
I know lots of Hillary supporters... yallerdawg Jun 2014 #36
How many of those were Democrats? If they voted for McCain over Obama knowing that McCain is lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #44
I had nothing but... yallerdawg Jun 2014 #69
It made a difference lostincalifornia Jun 2014 #116
That is the most supportive comment... yallerdawg Jun 2014 #123
Any DU members? Kingofalldems Jun 2014 #46
No DU members. yallerdawg Jun 2014 #79
I was a Hillary supporter in 2008, but I was in line to early vote for Obama. hamsterjill Jun 2014 #85
Me too! n/t yallerdawg Jun 2014 #103
I remember the fucking PUMAs. Iggo Jun 2014 #109
PUMAS! yallerdawg Jun 2014 #113
Yeah, right AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #207
And she killed Vince Foster too. JoePhilly Jun 2014 #41
That's a bit of a canard. Has cali ever suggested a belief in that right wing lie that el_bryanto Jun 2014 #43
And had a lesbian relationship with Janet Reno question everything Jun 2014 #146
You'd be welcomed with open arms over at Discussionist KamaAina Jun 2014 #45
I know I will not caucus for her. Skidmore Jun 2014 #47
I'm sorry but Hillary is better than ANYONE the GOP has to offer. She may be conservative OregonBlue Jun 2014 #48
Now that's what I call a wringing endorsement! RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #54
That's what primary elections are for. jeff47 Jun 2014 #60
I like Hillary. I think she is smart and tough and I will vote for her. OregonBlue Jun 2014 #219
Please reconsider!! RufusTFirefly Jun 2014 #49
Easy to say now... and she's for sure not my first choice. mountain grammy Jun 2014 #50
I will vote for Hillary if she's the nominee. Because I'm a Democrat and I vote Louisiana1976 Jun 2014 #51
Oh I wish there was someone like you to argue with you CreekDog Jun 2014 #53
Nice find question everything Jun 2014 #148
wow. Since when does changing one's mind on something like this, undermine credibility cali Jun 2014 #198
You never had any credibility Cali_Democrat Jun 2014 #276
hate to break this to you but I have a lot of credibility with a lot of people here cali Jun 2014 #284
+1 cali, you have way more credibility than those who put party over principles. Scuba Jun 2014 #316
+1 More credibility than many.... beerandjesus Jun 2014 #383
"Hat tip to Creek Dog for killing this thread... " How sad that it's a goal to "kill threads" in rhett o rick Jun 2014 #318
Nice! LordGlenconner Jun 2014 #371
I wish more DUers had your honesty... SidDithers Jun 2014 #55
Yes, it's all about posting jeff47 Jun 2014 #64
Only with the help of party hacks including organization and mountains of money from TheKentuckian Jun 2014 #108
Nope, sorry. Those came later. jeff47 Jun 2014 #172
if not her consistency CreekDog Jun 2014 #91
Agree completely. Rex Jun 2014 #100
I just hope they all go away for a few months. joshcryer Jun 2014 #252
uh oh, stand by for the barage of loyalty oath threads! lol m-lekktor Jun 2014 #56
Quite frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn. lumpy Jun 2014 #57
LOL. ok. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2014 #58
end of story meaning you won't reply to anyone, or end of story meaning snooper2 Jun 2014 #59
Punish her by electing more liberal Democrats across downticket races! nt IronLionZion Jun 2014 #61
I'm voting Hillary!! riseabove Jun 2014 #65
Never been a great sharp_stick Jun 2014 #67
Sorry, cali. We must part company if it comes to that Doctor_J Jun 2014 #72
Don't Want Hillary, Will Slam Her Hard During Primary Season KittyWampus Jun 2014 #73
Alrighty then. undeterred Jun 2014 #74
I won't vote for Hillary = I'd rather have a Republican President like Cruz, Paul or another Bush... TeamPooka Jun 2014 #75
I guess I make two. n/t Chan790 Jun 2014 #77
Then you will be asked to leave to DU when she is formally nominated bluestateguy Jun 2014 #82
no she won't Doctor_J Jun 2014 #90
Goodbye then. If she is the nominee I will proudly be casting my NYC Liberal Jun 2014 #83
What if a teaparty or independent like Rand Paul is elected, they steal the senate and randys1 Jun 2014 #84
California is safe not to vote for Hillary ErikJ Jun 2014 #87
I thought she lived in Vermont. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #111
Nope. Cali is short for California ErikJ Jun 2014 #120
Look at her profile. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #140
I was born in Cali, have roots there cali Jun 2014 #188
The OP is from Vermont, not CA. Look at her profile (nt) question everything Jun 2014 #152
For someone of such strident and strong opinions, you sure need a lot of validation CreekDog Jun 2014 #89
she believes in Universal Healthcare, is strong, understands other countries samsingh Jun 2014 #93
I never share my voting on DU, woo me with science Jun 2014 #95
+10000 MissDeeds Jun 2014 #121
Plus one a whole bunch. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #173
+1000 Very well said! Raksha Jun 2014 #402
That is your right. LuckyTheDog Jun 2014 #96
Filed under "Shit everybody who has been paying attention already knew". 11 Bravo Jun 2014 #99
Speak for yourself LordGlenconner Jun 2014 #375
She is not my choice mackerel Jun 2014 #102
Dear God, please let Hillary be the nominee! boston bean Jun 2014 #104
Amen.............. Beacool Jun 2014 #238
gonna see her on Monday! boston bean Jun 2014 #239
Good for you!!! Beacool Jun 2014 #242
i already have my tix. you needed to pay and register prior. boston bean Jun 2014 #248
Have fun. Beacool Jun 2014 #249
Get some pics please! joshcryer Jun 2014 #254
Yes you would love that. Conservatism uber alas. The hell with the poor and unemployed. rhett o rick Jun 2014 #259
I think of one thing DFW Jun 2014 #105
I agree with you on all counts, cali. Raksha Jun 2014 #106
Seriously? You see no difference between Hillary Clinton and Margaret Thatcher? StevieM Jun 2014 #283
Lesser of which evil? Scott6113 Jun 2014 #107
Interesting OP/thread. H2O Man Jun 2014 #110
I believe you got that right..recommending your thoughtful post. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #200
Not a Hillary fanboy... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2014 #112
The Dem Party is a centrist party Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #114
This should be its own OP. Well said! n/t Blaukraut Jun 2014 #191
Enjoy a Supreme Court filled with Thomases and Scalias question everything Jun 2014 #115
WELL, packman Jun 2014 #118
Cali, come on, just hold your nose . . . brush Jun 2014 #125
If she's the last democrat standing... Stellar Jun 2014 #127
She has a lot of good qualities as well. OKNancy Jun 2014 #129
Now you will be criticized for creating "A list". stevenleser Jun 2014 #221
If the Democratic Party can't do better than Hillary in 2016, bvar22 Jun 2014 #130
I have no idea what your personal circumstance is bluestateguy Jun 2014 #131
I didn't like Nader. I didn't vote for him. I never supported him in any way shape or form cali Jun 2014 #201
Fine bluestateguy Jun 2014 #212
I never voted for Nader but Phlem Jun 2014 #214
I think that stance is okay for a Vermonter... and for me, in California... deurbano Jun 2014 #134
The Dems could run a goat and I'd vote for it over anything GOP. n/r broadcaster75201 Jun 2014 #135
K&R DeSwiss Jun 2014 #136
When you read post after post from a person... liberalmuse Jun 2014 #138
I will vote for the Democrat if it's Hillary or not... Sancho Jun 2014 #142
So is every politician from dog catcher MFM008 Jun 2014 #143
I would prefer Warren over Clinton Shankapotomus Jun 2014 #145
Cali, I never thought for an instant you would vote for Hillary Clinton The Second Stone Jun 2014 #147
Warren, Schweitzer, Clinton in that order, but Democrat regardless mikekohr Jun 2014 #149
I'm sitting here, staring at my screen in utter disbelief. This cannot be happening! Metric System Jun 2014 #153
then get on someone else bus. bernie sanders IS running. mopinko Jun 2014 #154
Republicans thank you for your integrity. aikoaiko Jun 2014 #155
Didn't you recently brag how you were on food stamps and how great they were? RiffRandell Jun 2014 #157
I didn't fucking brag about it, honeypie. disgusting of you to make that claim. cali Jun 2014 #203
Sorry, sweetie, but YOU started the nonsense. Beacool Jun 2014 #241
oh I can take it, sweetums cali Jun 2014 #286
Going by the nonsense you posted, hyperbole must be your middle name. Beacool Jun 2014 #340
SNAP shaming -- a new low. nt grasswire Jun 2014 #223
Give me a break. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #277
I'm shocked we can do it Jun 2014 #159
the absolute worst Democrat is far better than the absolute best Republican... NRaleighLiberal Jun 2014 #162
well said NRaleighLiberal NoMoreRepugs Jun 2014 #381
Just one more reason to vote for Hillary. Little Star Jun 2014 #163
We need to make sure we DON'T have to make a choice between that woman & the GOP Theocrat. Now is blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #170
I need more time to process this brand new information. Metric System Jun 2014 #171
I have made a vow Android3.14 Jun 2014 #174
Corporate Dem or a Republican, is that our choice? Phlem Jun 2014 #177
Nader-Bush...how soon you forget. glinda Jun 2014 #178
I live in Vermont. I don't have to settle the way dems in states like FL do. cali Jun 2014 #204
that's like saying "Iraq-9/11...how soon you forget" "Germany-Pearl Harbor...how soon you forget" MisterP Jun 2014 #274
Agree strange7 Jun 2014 #179
Like she won't perpetuate the current plutocracy....... dirtydickcheney Jun 2014 #180
I disagree with the OP. I have reservations about Hillary Clinton No Vested Interest Jun 2014 #181
Forgot I wrote this. Went off to putter in the garden (anyone ever grown celery root?) cali Jun 2014 #182
She makes me really nervous. peoli Jun 2014 #183
the supreme court is more important than your whinny childish tantrum. everyone fighting to improve leftyohiolib Jun 2014 #184
+10000 giftedgirl77 Jun 2014 #205
Outstanding! blue neen Jun 2014 #235
2010, that says it all............ Beacool Jun 2014 #243
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2014 #365
I would not call the OP's passion for what she believes in a totodeinhere Jun 2014 #369
Right On! Thespian2 Jun 2014 #185
I voted for Hillary as my Senator, but didn't HockeyMom Jun 2014 #192
as i stated on the counter thread barbtries Jun 2014 #195
I will but would much rather have someone else n/t doc03 Jun 2014 #199
Same. And if this is the way the party is going LittleBlue Jun 2014 #202
But Cali Capt. Obvious Jun 2014 #206
oh yes, I forgot to take that into consideration cali Jun 2014 #210
Ok, but help me out here. When she bowed down to George Bush and violated her duty to rhett o rick Jun 2014 #257
The Hillary feeding frenzy AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #208
I have a hunch you aint seen nothing yet. In 2007 we had hope for change, now we only rhett o rick Jun 2014 #258
I have a hunch AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #261
I'm glad you have that luxury, Cali, sincerely steve2470 Jun 2014 #209
I don't know what I'd do if I lived in FL- but then again, no offense, living there is cali Jun 2014 #211
We really can do so much better! If only.... NYC_SKP Jun 2014 #213
And you'll be one of the ones I bitch about if we deal with yet another Republican in the WH. moriah Jun 2014 #215
Moriah, I live in Vermont (as you know). My vote will make no difference to the outcome. cali Jun 2014 #217
So because Arkansas has a snowball's chance of going blue even if Hillary'd gotten the nod... moriah Jun 2014 #218
I think you are jumping the gun. rhett o rick Jun 2014 #220
I'll alert the media. n/t Lil Missy Jun 2014 #228
Ask me if I give a flying f*ck? Beacool Jun 2014 #230
If you want the support of the left, dont nominate Wall Street's baby, H. Clinton-Sachs. It's up to rhett o rick Jun 2014 #264
The majority of self identified progressives support Hillary. Beacool Jun 2014 #266
No you will dance in the street as Wall Street-Clinton wins. You dont give a crap about the poor or rhett o rick Jun 2014 #268
Oh, the drama and the hyperbole.............. Beacool Jun 2014 #281
fine. i'll say it. you betcha i will vote for hillary or any democrat. i want supreme court. seabeyond Jun 2014 #231
That worked out so well for us in 2000 that you would risk a repeat? Liberal Veteran Jun 2014 #237
"Quelle surprise!" Rowdyboy Jun 2014 #247
Who cares. She'll win without you. Pisces Jun 2014 #250
Of course she would or so would Warren. But this forum is about giving totodeinhere Jun 2014 #370
No one I know has ask THIS question... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #256
I would write in. Just sayin. nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #262
Thanks for helping to elect Republicans. zappaman Jun 2014 #278
The same could be said of those who vote in lock step... MrMickeysMom Jun 2014 #294
That's BS. 840high Dec 2014 #416
I live in a safe blue state now, so I'm with ya d_b Jun 2014 #263
Ralph, is that you buddy? Zambero Jun 2014 #271
89 "liberals" who prefer a Republican like Ted Cruz to Hillary Clinton BainsBane Jun 2014 #272
baloney, codswallop, shrill rhetoric. And I live in Vermont? Wanna guess how VT will go? cali Jun 2014 #285
You are here encouraging others to refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee BainsBane Jun 2014 #290
No, I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything. I have no interest in doing that. cali Jun 2014 #291
Jury voted 4 to 3 to leave it JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #298
They tried to censor that comment???? Beacool Jun 2014 #342
No the alerter felt that BB JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #346
Me neither. Beacool Jun 2014 #350
I'll vote for Hillary, without any complaint bhikkhu Jun 2014 #273
Might as well vote republican. bobGandolf Jun 2014 #287
In Vermont? Really? Nope. Wrong. cali Jun 2014 #288
That makes you as much my political enemy as any other Republican MohRokTah Jun 2014 #289
I am not a republican. If you believe that, go to admin and tell them I should be booted cali Jun 2014 #297
Refusing to vote for a Democratic nominee makes you identical to a Republican MohRokTah Jun 2014 #305
Only if one is under some sort of a delusion. cali Jun 2014 #315
I will always consider you nothing more than just another Republican MohRokTah Jun 2014 #320
Conservatives are my political enemies Doctor_J Jun 2014 #345
All purists on the LEft accomplish are moving the party further to the right. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #347
Ummm...sure. See, we are playing 12-D chess, while you're playing checkers, and Doctor_J Jun 2014 #349
Please. joshcryer Jun 2014 #292
Naw Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #295
I only ask for a few months. joshcryer Jun 2014 #296
Reading is fundamental. I said in the OP cali Jun 2014 #299
Good. joshcryer Jun 2014 #301
Lol. You have inspired me, my dear. cali Jun 2014 #303
Please do. joshcryer Jun 2014 #308
I never promised to stfu. those are your little words. cali Jun 2014 #312
"I'll gladly leave DU for the duration." joshcryer Jun 2014 #314
love to break this to you: leaving for the duration is not synonymous with STFU. duh. cali Jun 2014 #317
Have a blow out. joshcryer Jun 2014 #322
Since we are asking, would you and others like you refrain from ad hominem attacks and ridicule rhett o rick Jun 2014 #319
I will voraciously attack Clinton. joshcryer Jun 2014 #324
Highly ironic comment Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #331
So is that a "no" you wont be discussing Clinton's stands on issues? And I am surprised that you rhett o rick Jun 2014 #333
Yeah, that's fine Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #334
Ad hominem attacks and ridicule????????? Beacool Jun 2014 #351
And you prove my point. I asked if the Clinton supporters would be willing to discuss issues. rhett o rick Jun 2014 #361
I agree with your description, but will vote for her anyway eridani Jun 2014 #293
I'm more interested Jeneral2885 Jun 2014 #300
An itsy bitsy teeny weeny group will join you BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #302
so instead of more negative Hillary posts, will we start seeing pro-candidate posts? Blue_Adept Jun 2014 #304
I notice that the Clinton-Sachs supporters never provide positive arguments about her rhett o rick Jun 2014 #323
I'm certainly not a Clinton supporter Blue_Adept Jun 2014 #325
double kick+r nationalize the fed Jun 2014 #306
Starting w/ Timothy Geitner JonLP24 Jun 2014 #326
If you don't vote for the Democratic nominee baldguy Jun 2014 #327
I fail to see how she differs significantly from President Obama on policy issues Freddie Stubbs Jun 2014 #328
Yes Freddie and that's the point. Vote for Clinton-Sachs and 8 more years rhett o rick Jun 2014 #336
Someone recd this for "honesty and courage" NO... Evergreen Emerald Jun 2014 #329
because there's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush. remember? greenman3610 Jun 2014 #330
Not voting for Hillary is a half vote for Bush lame54 Jun 2014 #337
courts do matter Demsrule86 Jun 2014 #344
Hmm... risk going over the cliff with a republican president or whatchamacallit Jun 2014 #353
Well! You've certainly taught ME a lesson... brooklynite Jun 2014 #356
Freerepublic salutes you OP workinclasszero Jun 2014 #357
I can understand how you feel. Xyzse Jun 2014 #358
I sympathize with you. But if she gets the nomination and her opponent totodeinhere Jun 2014 #368
I voted for Obama for one reason in the 2008 Primary dirtydickcheney Jun 2014 #372
Then I'm holding you personally responsible for either making sure a better candidate is nominated, Zorra Jun 2014 #373
That's ridiculous. The OP's comment is not going to be responsible for totodeinhere Jun 2014 #376
It was a comment really meant for the general population of Democrats who are Zorra Jun 2014 #382
OK, when you wrote "I'm holding you personally responsible" I assumed you were directly totodeinhere Jun 2014 #389
Yeh, I know that is how it appears, not trying to deceive anyone, just Zorra Jun 2014 #393
I don't trust the Clintons or ANY of their paid hacks. nt. Any other Dem please. nt clarice Jun 2014 #374
Fine. That is your right and your decision. BlueMTexpat Jun 2014 #378
So if we have a president named Cruz, or Paul or Perry, you'll accept partial responsibility? Zen Democrat Jun 2014 #379
I'm no fan of Hillary... MoonchildCA Jun 2014 #388
well I won't leave DU. PatrynXX Jun 2014 #390
I'm not far from where you are stupidicus Jun 2014 #395
Cue horrified gasping, choking, and over the top hysteria here. LWolf Jun 2014 #396
krecc Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #403
This is entertaining, if nothing else. AAO Jun 2014 #409
Oh no !!! Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #411
K&R Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #412
Well, thanks for letting us know. MineralMan Nov 2014 #414

Response to cali (Original post)

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
406. yes, only on the new DU are actual Democrats trolls or swarms... imagine this;
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 12:38 AM
Jun 2014

"I'm gonna sign up as a troll on DU, and.. support the democrats!!!"

silly isn't it?

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
377. I can vouch for your honesty and courage
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:00 PM
Jun 2014

and I cannot vote for her either.

Can't help wondering what she has promised all the powerful supporters she has. Do they agree with her views, or are there promises of good jobs and even better new laws and trade agreements? Hope we never find out.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
2. she is very similar to Howard Dean which is why he is supporting her and you had no problem
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:37 PM
Jun 2014

supporting him .

TBF

(31,921 posts)
92. To the left of Obama doesn't take much -
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:47 PM
Jun 2014

but I'd vote for her over many others. She at least will look out for civil rights issues.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
81. I am a big Dean fan, not sure they are that similar but even if they arent
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:39 PM
Jun 2014

the alternative to WHOEVER the dem is, is a teaparty or lying hypocrite ass like Rand Paul or a mainstream repub like , well I cant think of one who could get the nomination

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
98. we have plenty of choices on the D side.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:49 PM
Jun 2014

It is the Republican cupboard that is barer than Cruz' closet of integrity.

question everything

(47,264 posts)
117. Yes, but it is Hillary that they say will probably be the next president
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:02 PM
Jun 2014

They will gain more confidence if she is not the nominee.

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
122. I honestly do not think she will run.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:08 PM
Jun 2014

I honestly hope that she does not.

I honestly do not like her, not only because of the bad experiences I had when I met her years ago.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
151. Based on what? She sure has been doing a good imitation of a wannabe nominee since 2007.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:42 PM
Jun 2014

I never thought that the "Tell Hillary you want her to run in 2016" pleas I started noticing on the internet in around 2011 had nothing to do with her. And the current book tour is a classic. So is her sudddenly showing "her softer side," which many say is what won her New Hampshire, which had been slated to go to Obama, before she broke into tears after a woman asked her how she managed to do it "all."

I mean, I sure hope you are right, but, on my ouija board, everything points to a run.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
392. she has that air of Palin about her
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:56 PM
Jun 2014

ie for 4 yrs had people saying Palin's running in 2012. nope she didn't

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
394. Her recent statement, about being broke when they left the Oval Office
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jun 2014

She had just signed another book deal, Bill had other deals in the works, including his foundation (which was seeded incredibly soon after he left. Almost too soon. Like a payoff.).

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
401. And don't forget that Hillary's so-called "debt" was being fully financed by her buddies on Wall Street w/ their generous contributions to the Clinton's legal defense fund. . .
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 09:33 AM
Jun 2014

We need an honest candidate whose allegiance is to the little guy on Main Street, not the "fat cats" on Wall Street.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
186. she is not a lot like Howard. He was my governor. I'm quite familiar with
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:21 PM
Jun 2014

who he is as a person. He can and did piss me off as governor, but he had integrity. I don't see a shred of that in Hillary.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
352. i still have my Dean Campaign sign. i was on vacation in Maine, it was after the primaries were
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:57 AM
Jun 2014

over. I saw a Dean sign nailed to a telephone pole so I went back at night and grabbed it...

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
265. She isnt Howard Dean. She doesnt support the 99%. She is in the pocket of Wall Street.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:21 AM
Jun 2014

Nominate her and you will lose the support of the left. Dont blame us. We want change. Real change, not Obama change. No more better of evil extortion. At some point we must draw the line and fight for our liberties, our freedoms and our economy.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
270. she supports the 99 as much as Dean does , why do you think he is supporting her
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:27 AM
Jun 2014

they are very much the same .

btw, she already has the liberal support .

OLDMADAM

(82 posts)
279. I was a proud Dean supporter..
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:34 AM
Jun 2014

I wasn't only a Dean supporter but a volunteer in his office, devoting months and donating more than I could afford, by a lot.. When he lost in Wisconsin, I picked up my stuff, and moved it to John Kerry's office, and gave it my all.. I believed in Dean, and still worked for his successor..

I will work for any candidate we pick, no matter who it is, and I don't think we know who that may be yet, perhaps someone none of us would even think of.. One sure thing, I will be there with bells on, all in..

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
391. I was the only one in my caucus to support Wesley Clark that year
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:52 PM
Jun 2014

I didn't think John Kerry could win. Howard Dean won our room.. then discovered nobody had been to a pep rally before and the Howard Dean yeah was seen as anger for whatever reason..

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
3. Would it matter who the Republican nominee was?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:38 PM
Jun 2014

I mean if they put up another milquetoast like Romney, that's one thing, but what if they put up a full throated tea-partier like say Rick Scott down here in Florida?

Bryant

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
17. I think they would do better at fucking up the country, yes.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:44 PM
Jun 2014

If Hillary is the candidate I'll likely vote for her, although I am not enthusiastic about the prospect - but I would be more eager to vote for her if the Republican were Rick Scott or Rand Paul, compared to Romney.

Bryant

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
280. What the GOP want for a president
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:37 AM
Jun 2014

is someone manipulatable and passive so the "deciders" can easily maneuver without resistance. That's why they wanted Romney.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
4. Oh, so you'll take your $8 million and live in poverty?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:38 PM
Jun 2014
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams


sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
86. I love that quote, and I agree with the OP. I will focus on Congress if Hillary is the nominee. Now
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:42 PM
Jun 2014

is the time to let the party know that we want someone we can vote FOR, not just 'it's this candidate or a teabagger'.

question everything

(47,264 posts)
132. And watch the country sinks and deteriorate beyond repair
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:18 PM
Jun 2014

More right wing Supreme Court that further erode rights

More warrior happy presidents that destroy countries and lives

More "drop dead" attitude of reducing and eliminating any safety net, clean environment, decent jobs, health care and retirement.

But, hey, you can sit smugly and be happy with your vote.

Just curious: where, exactly will you be sitting? Are you so rich so that you can live anyplace and anywhere that you want? Or will you, like millions others, will live in poverty, old and sick, with no government programs to help you?

But, hey, you voted your "principal" destroying not only your lives, but the lives of millions across the globe.

Now I understand what being liberal means to folks like you and the OP.



merrily

(45,251 posts)
158. Tierra's post consisted solely of a quote from John Quincy Adams, so your liberal bashing is
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:50 PM
Jun 2014

mystifying. I didn't recall that he was a liberal.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
197. Really? All that with one vote?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:39 PM
Jun 2014

Who'da thought.

Take it up with dear Hillary if she can't convince people to vote for her. Poor poverty stricken millionaire that she is.

question everything

(47,264 posts)
233. What does this mean?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:17 PM
Jun 2014

There has been a thread about whether posts should be in English only. The compromise, I think, was that if it is not in English, a translation should be provided.

So can you please translate into English ^^^?

Thank you

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
341. You inadvertently posted the problem
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:23 AM
Jun 2014
More "drop dead" attitude of reducing and eliminating any safety net, clean environment, decent jobs, health care and retirement.


The president and/or the rest of the DLC/Turd Way have

1. Proposed cutting SS benefits (the safety net)

2. Endorsed Fracking (clean environment)

3. Strongly endorsed the TPP (decent jobs)

4. Privatized/profitized healthcare

5. See 1.

I don't agree with cali's decision, but you're daft if you think the DC Dems are working for the little people vs. the corporations
 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
343. Agreed
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:27 AM
Jun 2014

Hope everyone who sits out of the election is happy when the teapublican president and his minions destroy social security, Medicaid/medicare, food assistance, EPA any and all environmental laws,etc and gives those billions/trillions to the 1% and the MIC for more endless wars of empire!

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
5. yes ...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

I feel your pain but I will probably concede and vote for her in the General election though certainly NOT in the primaries. Only because the likely alternative outcome is so regressive and in my view outright dangerous.

bigtree

(85,915 posts)
7. heh
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jun 2014

. . . just lowered the value of your input.

. . . but hey, those Bush years weren't all that bad, huh?

. . . oh, yeah, this makes those croc tears you were shedding in that hit piece of a thread yesterday over Clinton's statement look phoney as hell. Hope you get the attention you're craving . . . and more.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
398. You're in a position to kick her out of the Democratic Party?
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 06:05 AM
Jun 2014

I think the leaders of the Party might have a different view.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
400. Obviously I am simply stating a perspective based on the OPs view that the OP will NOT vote for
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:04 AM
Jun 2014

Hillary if she becomes the Democratic nominee.

There is nothing in that which even implies YOUR contention. I am simply commenting that if someone won't vote for the Democratic nominee they might as well not be part of the Democratic party because they are irrelevant, just like Ralph Nader has become


merrily

(45,251 posts)
404. Again, I doubt party leaders want someone out of the party simply because he or she is unable
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:01 AM
Jun 2014

to vote for one candidate in one election. And, we should only all be as "irrelevant" as Nader. Ever read his wiki?

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
367. no temper at all. The OP won't vote for the Democratic nominee should consider moving to another
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 01:43 PM
Jun 2014

party such as greens since the OP cannot see a difference between a Hillary candidacy verses a republican nominee



 

rug

(82,333 posts)
11. This description doesn't bode well for any nominee.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jun 2014

"a despicable opportunist, dishonest, a big supporter of the military industrial complex and much more."

It's virtually a job requirement.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
12. Vent, vent, to your heart's content.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:41 PM
Jun 2014

But I think that if in 2016 Hillary and Ted Cruz are running neck and neck, you will do the right thing.

question everything

(47,264 posts)
119. I doubt it. This is how many felt in 2000 and voted for Nader, giving us Bush
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:06 PM
Jun 2014

and miserable wars and continuing loss of so many people.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
128. THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:14 PM
Jun 2014

Sooooo.... the answer then is, sit back and dig in your heels and stick out your chin and say NO to Hillary, and that's one more vote for some asshole republi-CON. How does the White House back in enemy hands sound? What chance will we have THEN???

I wish there was more of a choice, but we don't have one. There are only two parties. And that's THAT. Any third-party wishes will just evaporate into spoiler-land and give the BAD GUYS the win instead of ours.

I won't EVER insist on the perfect when the good will still keep the TRULY bad guys OUT of the White House.

Or don't you care that much about who picks Supreme Court justices? You're REALLY that willing to risk it? SERIOUSLY??????

Sorry - hate to come down so harshly, but that's what we're dealing with now. Pure resolute idealism will get us some republi-CON in the White House.

And let's see a show of hands - who voted for nader in 2000? Who thought there wasn't any difference between the parties? Who thought it was more important to "send a message"!???? Yeah? Guess what THAT message wound up being? "Congratulations, President-elect bush."

question everything

(47,264 posts)
137. Not sure why you are aiming this at me
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:22 PM
Jun 2014

I am 100% with you. Certainly the Supreme Court - see my post 115, below.

My comment about Nader was a response to the earlier comment that the OP will change her mind once Hillary is the nominee.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
275. Sorry - didn't mean to come on so strong.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 01:35 AM
Jun 2014

And I hope the OP will change her mind once Hillary is (expected to be) the nominee. NOTHING's a sure thing. Granted. But I just think - at THIS particular point, with THIS particular climate and THIS particular set of circumstances, she's the one. And I want to see her kick the snot out of the GOP.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
224. Isnt that extortion? If you dont want a Republican in the WH, dont nominate H. Clinton-Sachs.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 08:09 PM
Jun 2014

It's as simple as that. If Clinton-Sachs is nominated dont blame the election outcome on the left.

America is sick of the status quo and Clinton-Sachs represents 8 more years of Wall Street/Goldman-Sachs rape of the lower classes.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
267. I'm not totally convinced anybody else on our team has the clout to win it. I think she can win.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:23 AM
Jun 2014

Just my totally amateur and subjective opinion here, as objective as I still try to be. My apologies!

But love her or hate her, Hillary's got way too much going for her and momentum. Anybody else in there from our side might make it awfully tempting for a jeb bush or somebody perceived to be "hmmm, a republi-CON I think I could live with" to make a run for it. And a jeb bush would have a whole lot more momentum and funding than anybody on our side. Not Biden, whom I just love. And not Bernie Sanders - much as I like, admire, and agree with him.

She's got the big, solid, steady and realistic numbers and I suspect there are two separate categories of voters whose hearts she's already won: First, those who voted for her in 2008 and thought - THEN - that it was time for a woman president and she was fully capable of running for that. Now they might feel as though their time has finally arrived (and perhaps, a wee bit, that they're owed?). And second, those who wish to take part in making history yet again. That's one of MANY things that motivated people to turn out in 2008 and turn out for Barack Obama: the chance to vote for the First African American President of the United States. It's hard to find an event more momentous in American history than that - and it's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It's one of those events, political, historical, and cultural alike, in which people will remember where they were when they heard he'd been declared the winner. While the whites-only club has had to open its doors much wider, there's still one other closed door to break through: the men-only club. With Hillary running, I think that will add an extra current of wind at her campaign's back (assuming she runs of course, and this is only my opinion). Frankly, I hope it does. Women have faced so much obstruction - seemingly more by the day - that I think this statement needs to be made. And no one can argue that she's not qualified.

There are few other possibilities with an objectively realistic chance to win. It becomes a lot less difficult to work for keeping the White House true blue than if a less clout-worthy Dem had to carry the party standard. Unfortunately, the GOP becomes more competitive without the Hillary gorilla in the room. It's a lower mountain for them to climb, and there are people on their end who are, unfortunately, viewed as somewhat tolerable in a national campaign.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
269. That's the thinking that's got us where we are today. At some point we must stand up
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:26 AM
Jun 2014

to the oligarch controlled party choices. Clinton-Sachs will give us 8 more years of Wall Street control.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
310. I'm convinced that Clinton can't win. The right will show up to vote against her in droves ....
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:04 AM
Jun 2014

... as they were trained to do in the 1990's. And as the left learns more about her hawkishness, Wall Street and WalMart ties, they will become disenchanted.

I'm convinced only a true populist like Warren can win in 2016. If you want a Republican in the White House then run Hillary. Hell, even if she should win we'll get Republican policies.

kjones

(1,053 posts)
417. "If I don't get Bernie, I'll defacto vote for the other party." Isn't that extortion?
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 12:32 PM
Jun 2015

Democracy is by definition an exercise in compromise, whether there are two parties or a thousand.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
418. I hope you aren't implying that I said that or believe that. Can you spell S T R A W M A N ?
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 02:10 PM
Jun 2015

I am guessing that you would have been against the American Revolution, telling the patriots, "Democracy is by definition an exercise in compromise, " There are lots of things that you don't compromise like liberty and freedoms. We've seen our elected representatives compromise us into this huge hole we are in. At some point you stand and fight.

kjones

(1,053 posts)
419. Implying? Hell, you came right out and called the similar extortion for Hilary supporters et al.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 02:44 PM
Jun 2015

It's not a strawman, it's an observation.
I think the founders and patriots of the revolution understood compromise very well. How else would they have stitched those colonies together?
Here, let me help you



Try not to live up to your name. Doom, gloom, and absolutes only
work in church.

---

More generally to all - Bernie doesn't absolutely match up with everything for me either (no one would, except myself, but I'm not running). I'd vote for him in a second though were he the nominee, regardless of any nits I could pick. Apparently, many here don't share my willing, open-mindedness and overarching sense of community that makes me amiable to compromises. Unfortunately, it is a loss to us all.

I mean, come on, didn't we used to make fun of republican purity tests?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
420. You implied that I said the following: ""If I don't get Bernie, I'll defacto vote for the other
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 03:50 PM
Jun 2015

party." I didn't say that nor has anyone said that. You made that up to promote your argument. That's a strawman.

And again you mislead. My claim wasn't that the founders never compromised, my claim is that they knew when to compromise and when to fight. We are getting to the point of fighting. How many American children are going to have to slip into poverty before you decide that the status quo isn't cutting it. Goldman-Sachs is after more profits and don't cared if more children die in poverty.

It you have two candidates running. One that everyone seems to agree they will support should he get the nomination, and the other that won't get all Democrats to support her. Why would you choose her?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
164. I thought Gore won that vote.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:56 PM
Jun 2014

And Clinton, while Teflon for himself, may have affected Gore's failure to get a strong vote in many states, including his own. First time I ever heard any candidate for President announce on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, promising to restore honor to the Oval Office, no less, before I heard of his candidacy from national TV.

Not to mention Florida's (deliberately?) confusing ballot and the SCOTUS. But, sure, I get how convenient it is to blame Gore's loss solely on those who voted to the left.

question everything

(47,264 posts)
187. As long as we rely on the electoral system, Gore lost
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:22 PM
Jun 2014

Yes, it was the Florid final count, well after the Supreme Court intervene, that the final counts did favor Bush. I don't remember how much the Nader votes and, yes, the system was confusing but I think that had it not been for Nader in FL, Gore would have won.

And Gore's problem was - or an impossible dilemma - that he could not bask in the achievement of Clinton.

This was before 9/11, when all we cared was domestic issues, and the economy expanded, many had good paying jobs... but he had to distance himself.

This, of course, is why in most recent years, only papa Bush went from V.P to president, and he lasted only one term. Dukakis may have not been the best candidate and many did not think about how draconian the Supreme Court could be.

Every administration has its own share of scandals, incompetency, some would say illegal activity.. you name it. So why be tied to it?

I admit, in 2004 I was Edwards supporter, and I urged him - had a chance to shake his hand before he dropped - not to be Kerry's running mate because V.P.s do not become presidents. At least, not directly. Nixon had to spend some time in exile (politically, that is.)

And some say that Hillary, too, if she is the nominee, will have to tiptoe to distance herself from the bad things of Obama while taking pride of the good things. This may have been one reason why she chose to hold the post for only one term.



merrily

(45,251 posts)
196. Your post contradicts your subject line.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:38 PM
Jun 2014

If it was ultimately shown that Gore won the Florida count, despite Nader, the confusing ballot and everything else, then he won the electoral vote, too. The only place he lost was in the SCOTUS.



And Gore's problem was - or an impossible dilemma - that he could not bask in the achievement of Clinton.
Depends on how you see things. If we are talking the budget, the tax increases Reagan signed and the one to which Poppy agreed00the one that may have brought Perot in, had taken effect. There was no war. And Clinton ended "welfare as we know it." So, yes, he got to balance the budget. Him and the ones who put out a contract on America.

BTW, exactly what prevented Gore from getting credit for the above? He sure got the splashback from all the negative Clinton stuff.
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
76. er, the TOS say something about supporting progressive principles
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jun 2014

So when someone supports health care over for-profit mandates, for example, that person is abiding by the TOS.

Most of Obama's and HRC's ideology are in conflict with that portion of the TOS in fact.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
321. It says something about supporting Democrats too clue one.its in the name...its not Progressive U.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:26 AM
Jun 2014

I believe DU supported PRESIDENT Barack Obama....

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
339. You missed the point.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:17 AM
Jun 2014

Or ignored it. If the president's policies, like Race To The Bottom, are right-wing in nature, then anyone who takes either side is in violation of the TOS. If you support RTTB, you are in violation of the part that says we are to support progressive policies. If I am against RTTB, then I am in violation of the part that says we should support everything the president does. The Turd Way's adoption of Republican ideologies presents a paradox, and you shouldn't be bashing those to choose to support traditional Dem ideas instead of the Turd Way's.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
355. no you missed the very name of the site. Its DEMOCRATIC Underground
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:12 AM
Jun 2014

not the Progressive Candidate of Your Choice Underground!

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
360. And many Democrats, both in and out of DC, don't like RTTB
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:20 AM
Jun 2014

You are the one who introduced the TOS to this subthread. Part of it says we should support progressive policies. Thus my support of UHC instead of Heritage Care, public schools and teachers unions instead of RTTB, repeal of NAFTA instead of putting it on steroids, repeal of capital punishment, closure of Gitmo, and end to drone murder, while putting me at odds with the president, does not

1. make me a non-Democrat, or
2. Put me in violation of the TOS

beerandjesus

(1,301 posts)
380. I think the "TOS reminder" is like Godwin's Law on DU.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:08 PM
Jun 2014

Anyone who breaks out the "friendly TOS reminder" automatically loses the argument.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
397. Of course, you are reading
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:13 PM
Jun 2014

the updated TOS; some things were changed after the election of Obama and the move to DU3.

For example, DU used to self-identify as a "left-wing" discussion board. That was changed to "politically liberal." Frankly, that excludes a large segment of the Democratic Party; those who are NOT "politically liberal."

And while DU always put partisanship before issues, it was once much more balanced than it is today.

Still, the TOS says, simply put, that one cannot campaign against a running Democrat in a general election. Since there hasn't been a primary, and there are no formally announced primary candidates, let alone a Democratic nominee, there is no prohibition to saying that HRC isn't worthy of one's vote. She's not currently running for anything.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
126. Democratic principles are the principles of the Democratic party, by definition.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:10 PM
Jun 2014

"Democratic principles" is *not* a synonym for "liberal principles" or similar.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
150. So if the Democratic party declared Male Dominance as an official
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:41 PM
Jun 2014

party principal - enshrined it in the platform - Male Dominance would be a Democratic Principle?

Bryant

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
366. If Icky Ricky Santorum declares himself a Democrat and we adopt his hateful policies as our own ....
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:59 AM
Jun 2014

... then we must never have had any principles.

Same is true with the policies of the DLC/Third Way folks have taken over control of much of our party. They push policies supporting Wall Street, corporate America and the MIC. If those are now "Democratic Party principles" then count me out.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
421. Agree, but not all Democrats adhere to Democratic Principles.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jun 2015

Some Democrats betray their principles and their Party, not to mention their country, when they turned their backs on the Party and chose to support George Bush's war where possibly a million innocent people were brutally killed. Some Democrats helped promulgate the lies of Bush/Cheney. I always vote Democratic, but I don't blindly support all Democrats even though that certainly would be easier.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
14. I will side with Warren over you. Reasons why are obvious.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jun 2014

You will find even more support in not voting for Hillary and crap like "she's a despicable opportunist, dishonest" etc. over at freerepublic. If you decide to leave, you will find similar rhetoric there.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
167. God, but, that "left is actually right" stuff got old fast.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:00 PM
Jun 2014

Tends to happen fast with things that never made any sense to begin with.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
225. She is not a friend of the 99%. Why would you back her? She is Wall Street all the way.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 08:11 PM
Jun 2014

Are you one that believes in trickle-down?

If you want a Republican in the WH, nominate Ms. Wall Street. We need change and she represents the status quo.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
309. "Are you one that believes in trickle-down?" Excellent mind reader you are.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:54 AM
Jun 2014

"If you want a Republican in the WH, nominate Ms. Wall Street." I will wait until the primaries to decide who to vote for. Like Ms. Warren, I think Hillary is fabulous. Not as big on Regan as she was but we all have our faults. Would love to vote for Warren in the primaries, but I'm pretty sure she is just going to back Clinton.

You response was very scattered. Contained things that really can't be attached to me. Hope I covered what I could. By the way, love Warren, and Warren loves Hillary.

If you want a republican in the WH, vote Nader over Gore and hold to your principals. It is dumb fucks with this mentality that helped to elect Bush. Nothing but brain dead. But why would you wait until the primaries when you can spout a bunch of bullshit republican support now.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
15. Still has to be better than the repuke candidate.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jun 2014

I'll vote for anything as long as it isn't the repuke. Can you imagine a Prez McCain, Veep Palin, Prez R$, Prez Huckabee......

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
18. This person doesn't think there is a enough of a difference.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:44 PM
Jun 2014

If those people didn't exist in FL Bush's shenanigans would not have been enough to make a difference.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
25. Supreme Court, Supreme Court, Supreme Court
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:46 PM
Jun 2014

Lets have Palin pick Ted Nugent for a seat on the bench.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
190. this person, that would be me, lives in Vermont
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:27 PM
Jun 2014

can you really imagine Vermont going republican? And yes, I think there's a difference. don't presume ever to tell me what I think, dear.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
234. Democratic apathy gave us the Tea Party in 2010.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:18 PM
Jun 2014

But heck, it was more important to get rid of those evil Blue Dog Democrats in red districts. Now most of their seats are taken by T.P. members. Doesn't it just warm your heart?



StevieM

(10,499 posts)
282. The bigger loss in 2010 was the gubernatorial and state legislative elections because
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:07 AM
Jun 2014

that enabled them to implement a frighteningly gerrymandered House of Representatives for the next decade. That allowed them to get their butts kicked in 2012 and still hold onto the House.

Hi Bea!! How have you been?

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
359. Wow, that's very different.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:20 AM
Jun 2014

I can snuggle inside this bankie.

Thank you, sweetie. With all the mud being flung around here, I sure can use it.




frylock

(34,825 posts)
385. no, young and independant voter apathy gave us the tea party in 2010..
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:23 PM
Jun 2014

shit happens when you fail to deliver on hope and change.

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
16. People like you got Bush elected.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:43 PM
Jun 2014

They "couldn't vote for Al Gore in FL". They were wacko left wing purists who needed a candidate who was 100% with there ideals or 0%. 70% wasn't enough.

People like you are willing to sit out and allow an anti gay anti choice republican get elected.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
30. +1
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:51 PM
Jun 2014

The time to take a stand such as the OP is in the primary.

In the election, vote for the Democrat. Even if you don't like them. If you don't like them, then vote against them in the next primary.

This is how the insane Republicans took over the Republican party. We can use the same tactic to turn the Democratic party to the left.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
124. Maybe the party should look at that right now so
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:08 PM
Jun 2014

we actually end up with a Democrat or a populist, preferably a Democratic populist as our nominee. There is a fair contingent of Democratic voters who feel like the OP, and much of the swing center, not a good way to start the election cycle.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
169. The point is this is utterly independent of the party.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jun 2014

And we should be helping "outsiders" run in primary elections.

Don't like your primary choices? Run. You don't have to win to change the party's direction.

 

joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
133. And people like them are banking on people like you
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:18 PM
Jun 2014

Give you some scraps and make you piss scared you will lose your scraps. That way, you won't stand up and demand a seat at the table.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
193. uh no, honey. I voted for Gore. Didn't care for Nader and I live in VERMONT
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:29 PM
Jun 2014

Vermont is not FL.

I have voted for the dem candidate in every election since 1972.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
232. Do you think that the purists care?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:12 PM
Jun 2014

They will stomp their feet, pout and refuse to eat their porridge. They would rather have a Bagger in the WH just so they can point a self righteous finger and proclaim, "See, we told you so."



frylock

(34,825 posts)
386. no, people like the 200,000+ registered dems in FL that voted for bush..
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:25 PM
Jun 2014

voter disenfranchisement, and the supreme court is what got bush "elected."

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
21. Thanks for letting us know. We sort of figured that out
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:45 PM
Jun 2014

already, though. Once the 2016 primaries are over and a candidate is selected at the Democratic National Convention, I'll know for whom I will be voting. If Hillary Clinton is that candidate, I will vote for her. If someone else is, I will vote for that person. In the primary elections and during the caucus and convention system in my state, I will caucus for and vote for the declared candidate I believe will do the best job and who will be the most progressive candidate for President. If that candidate does not get the nomination, though, I will vote for the one who does.

I am a Democrat. I vote for Democrats. The alternative is unthinkable. You apparently feel otherwise. We all have one vote in the General Election. Right now, there's one of those coming up in November of this year. I have election activism to do before then. After that election, I'll begin thinking about 2016. I'm hoping to help Minnesota pick up two new Democratic seats in the House of Representatives. That seems to me to be a better use of my time than yammering about unannounced presidential candidates for the 2016 election

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
168. Well Said
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:00 PM
Jun 2014

Right now I am focused on turning Texas blue and Wendy Davis and Leticia van de Putte. Van de Putte in particular needs to win given that her opponent is Dan Patrick who is a really nasty human being.

I will support the party's nominee in 2016. From a selfish standpoint, I think that Hillary Clinton could put Texas in play and I would love to watch a true battleground POTUS election.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
226. I vote for Democrats also. But I refuse to vote for DINO's. I refuse to vote for Democrats that
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 08:16 PM
Jun 2014

bowed down at George Bush's feet and took the coward's way out. She failed Democrats, she failed Iraqis, she failed our troops, she failed the world when she abandoned Democratic principles and gave war powers to the Republicans. If we had wanted Republican rule we would have voted for them. Democrats voted for her and she walked hand in hand with the Republicans and killed a million innocent Iraqis. How many Iraqi children died?

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
37. That will depend on the primary elections.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:55 PM
Jun 2014

It always does. It's a little early to start declaring our votes in 2016, it seems to me.

Primary voters, in their minorities, will decide who runs in 2016. Maybe focusing on those would be the best thing. But they're off in the distance, and nobody will even declare until after the November 2014 elections. I can wait. There's work to do for election activists. Won't you join us?

GOTV 2014 and Beyond!

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
251. I want to let the DLC'ers know right now that if you stick with Clinton-Sachs, the apple of
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:00 AM
Jun 2014

Wall Streets eye, you may lose the left. So if you dont want a Republican in the WH, DO NOT NOMINATE Hillary Clinton-Sachs. If you do, it's all on you. Dont try to blame the left. Fair warning.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
40. Nope.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:56 PM
Jun 2014

You'll just be lumped into the pool of "non-voters" and ignored. Instead, they'll turn further right to peel off some more former Republicans.

IOW, exactly what has happened when people tried this tactic for the last 40 years.

CAG

(1,820 posts)
33. Rand Paul thanks you for your support and hopes that you can convince other
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:52 PM
Jun 2014

like-minded democrats to not vote for the democratic nominee in 2016.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
35. The problem with stands like yours
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jun 2014

is you become moot. No Democrat will bother to work for your vote. Instead, they'll try to peel off some more from the middle. Resulting in the Democratic party turning further to the right.

To turn the party to the left, you need to take a stand in the primary, and then vote for the Democrat in the general election. Repeat every single year. That will cause the party to turn to the left in order to win those primaries, instead of turning right to win general elections.

It's how the insane took over the Republican party. We can use the same tactic to turn the Democratic party back to the left.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
101. So you're saying that supporting more and more conservative Dems will move the party to the left????
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:51 PM
Jun 2014

Logic Fail. Voting for corporate Dems makes the party more corporate. I would think even a Teabagger could figure that out. Or are you an adherent of the doctrine that renewing the Bush/Obama Billionaires' Tax Cut was an example of the president kicking the GOP's ass in 12-D chess?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
166. No. Read the fucking post.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:59 PM
Jun 2014

You vote for the candidate you like best in the primary. You vote for the Democrat in the general. Even if they're a conservative Democrat. In the next primary, you vote for the candidate you like best. In the next general, you vote for the Democrat.

Repeat, and the party turns left. Just like the same strategy turned the Republicans insane.

Or you could keep pretending the post says something different so you can ramp up outrage at your imaginary enemies.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
260. No kidding.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

Sheesh.

"Or you could keep pretending the post says something different so you can ramp up outrage at your imaginary enemies."

This mode of attack is getting ridiculous. Talk about "logic fail." Good fucking grief.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
255. The oligarchs are doing the manipulating and most just go along. There are two parties both
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:06 AM
Jun 2014

supported by the plutocratic-oligarchs, the right-wing crazies and the conservative Democrats. Win-win for the oligarchs and many just play the game. At some point we need to break away from the control of the oligarchs and elect a progressive. Continued support of the oligarch choices like Clinton-Sachs will only play into the hands of the oligarch rulers. Clinton-Sachs will not fight for the 99% and we all know it.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
332. Yes, because it turns out you have to have vast money to run
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:32 AM
Jun 2014

Why, just look at what happened in Cantor's primary......oh wait.

If you don't have a good candidate in the primary, run. You don't have to win to change the direction of the party. Lots of crazy right-wingers lost in Republican primaries, but the overall party turned crazy to fend off the threat. We can do the same thing.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
338. No. our only hope is us.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:56 AM
Jun 2014

We don't need a populist to be handed down from on high. We have us, and we can run.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
36. I know lots of Hillary supporters...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jun 2014

who voted for McCain/Palin in 2008 because they were so devastated that Obama won the primary.

Fortunately it made no difference, I am in a Red State. Sometimes these votes are symbolic only to ourselves.

I, on the other hand, am truly a Democrat, with clichéd moral relativism, and if Hillary Clinton is the nominee, I will vote for her.

Even though she is the proverbial "yellow dog."

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
44. How many of those were Democrats? If they voted for McCain over Obama knowing that McCain is
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:59 PM
Jun 2014

anti-choice, pro war, and chose an idiot for his VP, that doesn't say much for their critical thinking skills

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
69. I had nothing but...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:31 PM
Jun 2014

personal contempt for these people. They sent money to Hillary, had yard signs, bumper stickers, etc. Our State voted for Hillary (I can't recall--is she white?). Looked at Obama as the usurper! When these people told me, I was astounded.

Except, it didn't matter anyway. This State went McCain and Romney. I vote for Obama twice, and did it make a difference? Not really.

Just to me.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
79. No DU members.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:38 PM
Jun 2014

This remains "Democrat seeking Democrats" lonely hearts club. And my secret.

Down here, you scratch a "Democrat" deep enough and you find a fiscal and social conservative buried under the intellectual dishonesty.

Plus, most of these Hillary fans down here seem to enjoy shopping on the internet, not blogging. Male and female, not a sexist comment, please. The males like to cruise Bass Pro and Duluth Trading Company. Just a personal observation of those I know who thoughtlessly jump party!

hamsterjill

(15,214 posts)
85. I was a Hillary supporter in 2008, but I was in line to early vote for Obama.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jun 2014

I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is in 2016 just like I did in 2008 because I truly do not believe that both parties are the same. As bad as the Democrats get, I don't think they get as bad and as CRAZY as the Republicans.

Iggo

(47,486 posts)
109. I remember the fucking PUMAs.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:55 PM
Jun 2014

They're the ones that got mad and voted for the other side 'cause Ms Clinton didn't turn out to be as inevitable as they thought she was.

It'll be fun to watch them sing the unity song if she's the national election candidate this time.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
43. That's a bit of a canard. Has cali ever suggested a belief in that right wing lie that
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 03:59 PM
Jun 2014

Vince Foster was murdered? Or is this just an attempt to smear him as a right winger for thinking that Hillary Clinton is a middle of the road wall street democrat who's not that committed to progressive principles?

Bryant

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
47. I know I will not caucus for her.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jun 2014

I didn't in 2008, I won't the next time around too and what I have heard from her thus far sounds very much like what she rolled into Iowa with last time around. Breaking glass ceilings is not the be-all and end-all sometimes. I don't hear anything from her that says anything more than she considers it her due to be at the top of the political heap, and she hasn't even announced yet.

OregonBlue

(7,744 posts)
48. I'm sorry but Hillary is better than ANYONE the GOP has to offer. She may be conservative
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:01 PM
Jun 2014

for a Dem but she's still a Dem and still believes government can solve problems, not that government is the problem.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
54. Now that's what I call a wringing endorsement!
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:13 PM
Jun 2014


I realize that politics is the art of the possible, but shouldn't we live in a country where the candidates are chosen by the People instead of being hand-picked by corporations?

In 2004, for example, something like 90 percent of Democratic delegates opposed the illegal Iraq invasion, and yet the appointed candidate favored it.

Something's really, really wrong here.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
60. That's what primary elections are for.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:21 PM
Jun 2014

General elections are for stopping Republicans.

It would be nice if this were not the case, but the Republicans have wandered off into insanity.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
50. Easy to say now... and she's for sure not my first choice.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:01 PM
Jun 2014

but lets get through 2014. We're at a real crossroads right now.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
53. Oh I wish there was someone like you to argue with you
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:12 PM
Jun 2014
cali Sun Mar 23, 2014, 04:26 AM

6. Oh, I agree with you that the SCOTUS is vitally important

but I couldn't disagree with you more about the "women are different when it comes to war" stuff.

Nor do I trust Hillary with judicial appointments. not at all. she is a corporate creature.

Sh voted for the IWR our of sheer political opportunism or hawkishness that took precedence over FACTS.

I wouldn't dream of voting for her in the primary. I think she'll be a fucking disaster as a president- not as bad as a repuke, but man...

yes, I'll hold my noise and vote for her if she's the nominee.

I


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4713257
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
198. wow. Since when does changing one's mind on something like this, undermine credibility
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:39 PM
Jun 2014

and honey, I'm hard to chase off. I'm busy as hell, but I enjoy posting here and have done so for a decade.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
276. You never had any credibility
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 01:48 AM
Jun 2014

What last shred of credibility you had left was lost when you started to defend right winger Michele Catalano only to see it backfire in your face.

Hat tip to Creek Dog for killing this thread...



 

cali

(114,904 posts)
284. hate to break this to you but I have a lot of credibility with a lot of people here
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:45 AM
Jun 2014

and yes, I was wrong about her and said so.

YOU are wrong about just about everything with your conservative filter.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
318. "Hat tip to Creek Dog for killing this thread... " How sad that it's a goal to "kill threads" in
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:22 AM
Jun 2014

lieu of honest discussion. Alerting, hiding, locking and killing threads are not substitutes for honest liberal discussion.

And then of course the, "You never had any credibility" ad hominem attack.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
55. I wish more DUers had your honesty...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:15 PM
Jun 2014

Too many value their posting privileges over their principles, and won't be honest about their intentions.

Sid

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
64. Yes, it's all about posting
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:24 PM
Jun 2014

and has nothing to do with this strategy being an utter failure for the last 40 years.

Meanwhile, the insane have used a different strategy to take over the Republican party during that same timeframe - vote for the "best" in the primary, vote for the party in the general.

Let's see....keep going with a strategy that's failed for 4 decades, or one that's worked for 4 decades.....decisions decisions.

TheKentuckian

(24,936 posts)
108. Only with the help of party hacks including organization and mountains of money from
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:55 PM
Jun 2014

wealthy Reich Wingers.

The formula cannot be replicated on our side. Big money and party insiders aren't so interested in moving the spectrum left as their "opposite" numbers on the other side.

I sure as hell didn't see a former Democratic Speaker pushing Occupy nor have millions been spent trying to promote their ideas and desires nor do I see the corporate media flogging such along.

The situations are not even loosely comparable, your "tactics" are a pacifier not a call to action.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
172. Nope, sorry. Those came later.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:05 PM
Jun 2014
The formula cannot be replicated on our side. Big money and party insiders aren't so interested in moving the spectrum left as their "opposite" numbers on the other side.

Big money is far less relevant in a primary election. The people who bother to show up at the primary are far more engaged, so policy is far more important than TV commercials.

The situations are not even loosely comparable, your "tactics" are a pacifier not a call to action.

Only because you already gave up. "We've already lost and can never recover" isn't a call to action either. But it's great for pretending you don't have a role in fixing it.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
252. I just hope they all go away for a few months.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:01 AM
Jun 2014

It'd be so damn peaceful around here.

But I suspect they'll skirt the jury system and won't make their intentions known.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
59. end of story meaning you won't reply to anyone, or end of story meaning
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jun 2014

It's the END of the story?


Or is it-

The NEVERENDING STORY!


(isn't he cute! (no not Atreyu))


sharp_stick

(14,400 posts)
67. Never been a great
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:29 PM
Jun 2014

Hillary supporter but this gives me hope for the future.

If she does run I may now have to toss a few bucks that way.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
72. Sorry, cali. We must part company if it comes to that
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:33 PM
Jun 2014

The thought of Ted Cruz or Fat Bastard or Walker driving the bus is too frightening. Yes, she's a Turd Way corporatist, but she's not a sociopath like every single Repuke. I have less than 20 years left and I plan to do my best to live them in a sane nation.

BOG/HCG - I'll still bitch every time she supports a Republican policy, either explicitly or implicitly

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
73. Don't Want Hillary, Will Slam Her Hard During Primary Season
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:34 PM
Jun 2014

but if she wins the nomiation, I'll sing her praises and vote for her.

That is called politics.

And doing things that are distasteful though necessary is called being a "grown up".

TeamPooka

(24,155 posts)
75. I won't vote for Hillary = I'd rather have a Republican President like Cruz, Paul or another Bush...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:35 PM
Jun 2014

Which means your opinions are worthless to me now.
Sure, tell me they are the same.
Then you're lying to me and yourself.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
90. no she won't
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:46 PM
Jun 2014

she can vote for 10-12 other Dems on the CA ballot in 2016. Stop with the purity tests. That's why the country moves more toward fascism every day regardless who's in office.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
84. What if a teaparty or independent like Rand Paul is elected, they steal the senate and
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jun 2014

they return us back to 1958 and your sister dies from an illegal abortion or your Black friend becomes homeless because open discrimination is not only legal but encouraged

What then?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
188. I was born in Cali, have roots there
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:23 PM
Jun 2014

both sets of my grandparents lived there. I spent my early childhood there til I was 10, but I live in VT

samsingh

(17,571 posts)
93. she believes in Universal Healthcare, is strong, understands other countries
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:47 PM
Jun 2014

and I believe a smart, genuine person who can defeat any gop-thug opponent.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
95. I never share my voting on DU,
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:48 PM
Jun 2014

because it's nobody's business here but mine. But let me say this:

I have voted before for the "lesser of two evils" in situations where I felt the compromise was justified...in other words, when "evil" was merely a metaphor for policies I didn't care for but could justify supporting compared to the alternative.

Recently, both major corporate parties have moved well beyond policies that are simply bad to policies that are nothing short of traitorous to this country and its Constitution. And "lesser of two evils" has become a deliberate, serially abused tactic for pushing through policies that aggressively violate both our Constitution and the will of most Americans.

Mass surveillance; brutal, militarized targeting of protesters; persecution of whistleblowers; criminalization of investigative journalism to suppress dissent; handing of our free media to corporations; propaganda machines, disinformation, and smear campaigns targeted at Americans; indefinite detention; "Kill Lists"; private prisons; and "trade deals" that will cede national sovereignty over issues as important as workers' protections and environmental protections to profit-driven multinational corporations over the will of the voting public...

These aren't just bad policies. They are the deliberate murder of our Constitution and our Democratic Republic. They put into place the infrastructure for fascism.

I cannot support any candidates, whether they CALL themselves Democrats or Republicans or something else, who enable this continued purchase and subversion of our country from democratic representation to corporatism and nascent fascism.

11 Bravo

(23,922 posts)
99. Filed under "Shit everybody who has been paying attention already knew".
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:50 PM
Jun 2014

And we'll miss you during the general election.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
242. Good for you!!!
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:43 PM
Jun 2014

Make sure that you get there early. The line will be long and they only give so many wrist bands.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
248. i already have my tix. you needed to pay and register prior.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 11:07 PM
Jun 2014

So I am guaranteed to meet her and have her sign my book. I saw her in 2008, too. She signed It Takes a Village for me.

It might have been living history. I'll have to check tomorrow.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
259. Yes you would love that. Conservatism uber alas. The hell with the poor and unemployed.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:12 AM
Jun 2014

Long live Wall Street, long live Goldman-Sach.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
105. I think of one thing
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:51 PM
Jun 2014

Even though Obama was President, Citizens United became law due to a right wing dominated Supreme Court.

It will only get repealed by a progressive-dominated Supreme Court.

ANY Republican will nominate more Scalias and Alitos.

ANY Democrat will nominate more Kagans and Sotomayors.

That, and upholding Roe V. Wade, is what is most important to me, and that's how I'll be voting.

Raksha

(7,167 posts)
106. I agree with you on all counts, cali.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:54 PM
Jun 2014

I could no more support Hillary than I could support Margaret Thatcher. When you think about it, what would be the difference? Is there one?

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
283. Seriously? You see no difference between Hillary Clinton and Margaret Thatcher?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:14 AM
Jun 2014

What about Rand Paul? Or Mike Huckabee?

Do you think Hillary is a global warming denier? Or opposed to a minimum wage increase? Or that she wants to repeal the Affordable Care Act? Or appoint Scalia-type judges to the Supreme Court? Or that she wants to privatize Social Security and Medicare?

Scott6113

(56 posts)
107. Lesser of which evil?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:54 PM
Jun 2014

I would never say that without knowing the alternative. Would you prefer Rand Paul, or Ted Cruz? How about Louie Gohmert? Is there a point at which you'd hold your nose and pull the lever?
Any abstention strengthens the other party.

H2O Man

(73,308 posts)
110. Interesting OP/thread.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:55 PM
Jun 2014

While I do not have any strong feelings about who I'd like to see, or not to see, as the Democratic Party's nominee in 2016, I do tend to read other people's opinions on this forum.

I'm fully comfortable with every individual making up her/his own mind. I am not prone to attacking anyone for having different choices than my own. If the United States as a nation decided to allow me, alone, to decide presidential elections, however, I would willingly accept that responsibility. Until then, everyone has the right and responsibility to decide for themselves who they will vote for.

What I find interesting is the rather narrow range of responses to your post. A few people feel the same way. A few hope that, if Clinton is nominated, you might decide to vote for her. Yet most respond with anger and hostility. That should be far more troubling to anyone who believes in the democratic process, than a single voter expressing contempt for a potential candidate.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
200. I believe you got that right..recommending your thoughtful post. n/t
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:43 PM
Jun 2014
*Yet most respond with anger and hostility. That should be far more troubling to anyone who believes in the democratic process, than a single voter expressing contempt for a potential candidate.

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
112. Not a Hillary fanboy...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:56 PM
Jun 2014

But she'll get my vote in the General Election.

For all of her faults, she a fucking political messiah compared to whatever human shit stain the GOP will place on the ballot.

The prospects of another Republican Administration in my lifetime is just to fucking depressing for me to even contemplate not voting Democratic.

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
114. The Dem Party is a centrist party
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:00 PM
Jun 2014

It always has been and it always will be.
People had problems with Carter in '80, and there was a big protest vote for Ted Kennedy.
I honestly don't remember anymore what the problem was with Carter. I had always liked him; he recognized the new Sandinista gov in Nicaragua unhesitatingly, and after that, as far as I was concerned, he was golden. I desperately wanted to see the US finally break from the recurring pattern of backing Pinochets.

Reagan got in. Ask Central America what that meant.

Gore v Nader is of course more familiar.

That one brought us The Drooling Idiot. Just today, ISIS took Mosul in Iraq and a nice big stash of Humvees and Blackhawks. That's what 2000 got us.

Once in a lifetime, IF you're lucky, you'll get an FDR. The rest of the time it's take what's on offer, and accept that you'll have to fight for what you really want. The US is never going to be France, Germany, or any other social democracy.
It'll never even be Canada, even under a Harper (who seems to be doing his best to imitate Reagan, for some reason).
That's just a fact.

question everything

(47,264 posts)
115. Enjoy a Supreme Court filled with Thomases and Scalias
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:01 PM
Jun 2014

for several generations.

"Our" justices are older than "theirs." While Scalia and Kennedy may retire, Thoma, Roberts and Alito are quite young.

I don't know if you have kids. If yes, be sure to show them the legacy you are leaving to them.

But, then, perhaps, you do not.


 

packman

(16,296 posts)
118. WELL,
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:03 PM
Jun 2014

this reminded me of my kids, way back when I tried to convince them veggies were better than ice cream:

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]




I will vote for her-and if I could- more than once simply because I would like to tell God at the Golden Gates that I voted for a black man twice and a women for the President of the US and not some other churned out product of a sick political party with no concern of the people they are to serve and the nation they are to nourish and pass on to our children.
I keep thinking of Ross Peroit and Ralph Nadar doing all that damage to their parties. And if Hillary loses by 1 vote, I am really, REALLY going to be pissed off at you.

brush

(53,467 posts)
125. Cali, come on, just hold your nose . . .
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:10 PM
Jun 2014

she's still better than any repug. You know that. AND REMEMBER THE SUPREME COURT — that's as important no matter who's on the Dem ticket. If the repugs get to replace Ginsburg or Scalia it's all over for the middle class, for voting rights, for reigning in the corporations, for women, for immigration, for gays — and thus, the country.

So please hold your nose if it comes to that. Think of more than yourself.

Stellar

(5,644 posts)
127. If she's the last democrat standing...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:13 PM
Jun 2014

yep, I'll hold my nose and vote for her. But she MUST be the last one standing.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
129. She has a lot of good qualities as well.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:14 PM
Jun 2014

My particular concerns are LGBT and women's rights. She is really good on those issues.


I guess I'll pull this out again. It's from her time in the Senate

100% NARAL, planned parenthood and NOW rating. Pro choice on all votes
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage - supports full marriage equality
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment
Supports arts education and the Nat. Endowment for the arts
Pro- public education ( based on her voting record)
Voted NO on drilling in ANWR
Scored 100% by the Humane Society
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition
went against Bill and does not support NAFTA
voted against CAFTA
supports same day voter registration - against voter id laws
supported verified paper ballot for every electronic voting machine
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers
Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence
pro stem cell research
believes in climate change
Voted YES on restricting employer interference in union organizing.
has voted yes on all minimum wage increases

voted No on Alito and Roberts for the Supreme court

100% rating by Service Employees International Union (SEIU) - Positions
100% rating by Alliance for Retired Americans
100% rating by the NEA ( National Education Association )
100% rating by the NAACP

A= rating by United To End Genocide - Positions on Darfur

LOL - new one: F- rating by Gun Owners of America - Positions on Gun Rights

Lifetime AFL-CIO score = 94%

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
130. If the Democratic Party can't do better than Hillary in 2016,
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:16 PM
Jun 2014

....then there is nothing there worth saving or supporting anymore.
I will NOT help the Democratic Party become even MORE conservative.

Hillary was the only candidate MORE Conservative than Obama in the 2008 Primaries,
and I have seen nothing since then to indicate that she has had a Democratic Awakening.
(No. I didn't buy that phoney Iraq Vote was a mistake thing,
and if YOU did, you should be ashamed)

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
131. I have no idea what your personal circumstance is
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:17 PM
Jun 2014

But I can tell you that all the people I knew who voted for Nader in 2000 fell into two categories:

1) Ignorant and naive college students who do not yet know the real world.

2) Spoiled little trust fund brats, limousine liberals, Chardonnay socialists; people who did not have to suffer through a Bush Administration and live through he consequences because they were privileged. Notice that Nader did very poorly with minorities, gays and poor people.

I'm not saying you fit into either category, but that was what I saw back then.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
201. I didn't like Nader. I didn't vote for him. I never supported him in any way shape or form
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:44 PM
Jun 2014

and I live in Vermont which is totally a sure bet for the dem candidate.

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
212. Fine
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:20 PM
Jun 2014

You live in Vermont so you have the luxury of doing what you want.

If you lived in Florida or Ohio though I hope your attitude would be different.

Phlem

(6,323 posts)
214. I never voted for Nader but
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:30 PM
Jun 2014

I thought it was the supreme court that elected shrub. Didn't Gore have the popular votes?

deurbano

(2,891 posts)
134. I think that stance is okay for a Vermonter... and for me, in California...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:18 PM
Jun 2014

but I wouldn't want a repeat of what happened in Florida (and New Hampshire) in 2000.

Remember the trading votes thing? A Gore voter in a non-swing state would vote for Nader in exchange for a Gore vote from a swing state Nader voter (who wanted to register opposition to the Democratic candidate, but also didn't want Bush to actually win). I'm not sure how much of that actually happened, though...

I never vote for Feinstein, but that would change if she were in danger of losing to a Republican. And, I wrote Clinton after welfare "reform" to say I would never vote for him again... but then the alternative was Dole, so.
 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
136. K&R
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:20 PM
Jun 2014
- After reading your post, this was the very first thing that popped into my mind. Yes I know, I need help. But I gave up the prospect of ever achieving rationality for Lent.

Still, it seemed somehow apropos. Enjoy......

[center][font size=2 color=darkblue]To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them?

To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;

To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;

For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,

When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,

The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;

And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.


~Hamlet Act 3, Sc. 1[/font][/center]

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
138. When you read post after post from a person...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:23 PM
Jun 2014

Who feels a strong need to voice their negative opinion, it's time to use the "Ignore" option. I'm very grateful that DU has this. I've learned lately (maybe too late) that it's really important not to let the naysayers bring you down to their level of cynicism. Positive people are the ones who are going to make a difference in this world.

I'll gladly vote for Hillary Clinton. She is better than anyone rumored to be in the running right now. If someone better comes along, I will vote for them. I've been around long enough to have seen that cutting off your nose to spite your face, or sticking to an ideal most of the people do not share, and refusing to compromise or bend a little gets you exactly jack shit in this life. It's give and take, and sometimes you have to choose between what is right in front of you instead of some yet unrealized ideal that is limited to floating inside of your head.

Sancho

(9,065 posts)
142. I will vote for the Democrat if it's Hillary or not...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:31 PM
Jun 2014

just like I voted for Obama (who was not my favorite). It's much better than the alternative.

MFM008

(19,776 posts)
143. So is every politician from dog catcher
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:31 PM
Jun 2014

yeah to Elizabeth Warren. All of them. There are no political heros. I just try to find the least loathsome.

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
145. I would prefer Warren over Clinton
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:34 PM
Jun 2014

But here's the thing: If Hillary is that bad (and I agree with you, she is not the ideal Democrat and I share the same suspicions as you), why do Republicans and Conservatives want to stop her so much?

Maybe they don't mind her on economics and the military but they despise her on social issues?

Here's a hypothetical for you: What if Hillary chose Warren as her vice presidential running mate?

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
147. Cali, I never thought for an instant you would vote for Hillary Clinton
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:38 PM
Jun 2014

and I for one consider would your "dis-endorsement" to be a badge of honor.

mikekohr

(2,312 posts)
149. Warren, Schweitzer, Clinton in that order, but Democrat regardless
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:40 PM
Jun 2014

The other side is less numerous but FAR more monolithic (and idiotic) and motivated to vote.

"We can all hang together or all hang separately." -B. Franklin-

The RNC is tying the noose right now. What's your neck size?

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
157. Didn't you recently brag how you were on food stamps and how great they were?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:49 PM
Jun 2014

If a repub wins the Presidency over Hillary, good luck with that.

She's not my first choice, but if she's the nom I'm voting for her.


My circumstances have changed and though I'm still likely eligible, I feel like I'd be taking advantage and that there are people who need the program more than I do. so yesterday I called the financial services dept and told them not to continue with my 6 month review. The person I spoke with was as nice as could be and assured me I could always reapply.

I am also on Medicaid and my comments above fit with my experience with the VT Medicaid program as well. I'm disabled due to an accident I had 2 1/2 years ago and I can't imagine where I'd be without it. I've had 3 surgeries. I was on crutches for 14 months and in a wheelchair for 6 weeks before I moved to crutches. I had terrific doctors and PT folks.

I'm grateful to these programs and grateful to you all who made it possible, through your taxes, for me to enroll in them.


Link: http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10024965981
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
203. I didn't fucking brag about it, honeypie. disgusting of you to make that claim.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:47 PM
Jun 2014

I expressed my gratitude for them. BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE. dear.

and no, I'm not on food stamps anymore- as I made clear and no, I'm the fucking last person in the world to adopt an I've got mine attitude.

AND ONE MORE TIME: I live in Vermont. Vermont will go dem. After Hawaii and D.C. Obama got his largest margin here both elections.

so stop with the nonsense.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
241. Sorry, sweetie, but YOU started the nonsense.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:41 PM
Jun 2014

If you can't take it, then don't dish it.

Do you think that those benefits you were able to use will be readily available for others in need if a Republican gets into the WH? These are not the Rockefeller Republicans of yore, they are hard core extremists who will do their best to destroy the nation's safety net.

I guess that doesn't bother you at all. You rather pout because your candidate of choice may not be the nominee, but don't seem to care too much if the likes of Cruz, Paul, Rubio, or anyone else in the Republican clown car, wins the WH.



 

cali

(114,904 posts)
286. oh I can take it, sweetums
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:51 AM
Jun 2014

what part of Vermont is a safe dem state eludes the grasp of your mind? Do tell why this is such a difficult concept for you, honey.

hyperbole that borders on hysteria: good job from the chief DU hillary fan.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
340. Going by the nonsense you posted, hyperbole must be your middle name.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:19 AM
Jun 2014

I've wasted enough time with you.

Ciao....


RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
277. Give me a break.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:06 AM
Jun 2014

I was pointing out that she benefitted from these programs and with a Repub President and Congress people that need them may not get them, as they sure as shit don't care about the poor and people struggling.

NRaleighLiberal

(59,940 posts)
162. the absolute worst Democrat is far better than the absolute best Republican...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:54 PM
Jun 2014

to me, anyway. And this doesn't imply any opinion of Hillary by me - just take the statement as it is.

So, I will vote for Hillary or whichever Democrat runs on the ticket. Always have, always will, I suspect.

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
170. We need to make sure we DON'T have to make a choice between that woman & the GOP Theocrat. Now is
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jun 2014

that time!

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
174. I have made a vow
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:06 PM
Jun 2014

I will only vote for the person who best expresses my positive vision of the future of this country. At this point, that ain't Clinton.

Phlem

(6,323 posts)
177. Corporate Dem or a Republican, is that our choice?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:11 PM
Jun 2014

my wallet says that is no choice. I'll have to say Hillary is the last Democrat I want as president. I feel you cali and agree.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
274. that's like saying "Iraq-9/11...how soon you forget" "Germany-Pearl Harbor...how soon you forget"
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 01:18 AM
Jun 2014

strange7

(16 posts)
179. Agree
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:15 PM
Jun 2014

I totally agree with you.
Why go back to the same old people that got us into this current mess when there are a few really good choices that are not in the bankers pockets?

No Vested Interest

(5,156 posts)
181. I disagree with the OP. I have reservations about Hillary Clinton
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:16 PM
Jun 2014

but will never vote for a Republican for President, nor a third party candidate, and yes, I will always vote in a national, state and/or local election.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
182. Forgot I wrote this. Went off to putter in the garden (anyone ever grown celery root?)
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:16 PM
Jun 2014

and then exhausted, I took a nap. DU firestorm erupts in the meanwhile. copycat threads abound.

but, yes, I mean it. I think she's a really bad candidate.

 

leftyohiolib

(5,917 posts)
184. the supreme court is more important than your whinny childish tantrum. everyone fighting to improve
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:18 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:26 PM - Edit history (1)

things for all of and people like you are going to fuck all their efforts cause you have a petty bitch about the dem nominee. it;s people like yu that gave us the tealiban
in 2010. it's people like you that gave us voter id laws, the war on women , fracking , people like you gave the republicans the green light to rape america all because you and the people like you would rather hand them the country due to a short-sighted hissy fit. it's people like youthat make me want to quit the democratic party.
people bitch about dems not doing anything but then when they get the chnce to vote they dont but then they still expect dems to go out on a limb for them. it's sickening.

save your principles for a time when the other side isnt so bent on destroyiing everything we buillt

the supreme court is more important than your principles

totodeinhere

(13,034 posts)
369. I would not call the OP's passion for what she believes in a
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jun 2014

whinny childish tantrum. I already said in this thread that I will hold my nose and vote for Clinton if necessary. But I respect the OP's position.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
192. I voted for Hillary as my Senator, but didn't
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:29 PM
Jun 2014

in the Primary against Obama. I didn't think she, or the COUNTRY, was ready for that. Today? Yes, I would. The country is ready for her.

barbtries

(28,702 posts)
195. as i stated on the counter thread
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:33 PM
Jun 2014

i will vote for the democrat even if i'm choking back bile at the ballot box. i think you should too.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
202. Same. And if this is the way the party is going
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:45 PM
Jun 2014

I'm going 3rd party.

Hillary doesn't represent me or anyone I know.

Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)
206. But Cali
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 06:52 PM
Jun 2014

science proves that you are more likely to survive being stabbed in the back than stabbed in the front.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
210. oh yes, I forgot to take that into consideration
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:02 PM
Jun 2014

I must confess, I find the huffing and puffing and righteous indignation over my op, quite funny.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
257. Ok, but help me out here. When she bowed down to George Bush and violated her duty to
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:08 AM
Jun 2014

Democrats, Iraqis and the world, was she stabbing from the front or back.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
258. I have a hunch you aint seen nothing yet. In 2007 we had hope for change, now we only
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:10 AM
Jun 2014

see 8 more years of Wall Street corruption.

steve2470

(37,456 posts)
209. I'm glad you have that luxury, Cali, sincerely
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:02 PM
Jun 2014

I am in Florida, which is a purplish state. Too many wrong votes and boom, we just cast our electoral votes for Romney/Palin/Cruz/name your Republican idiot. Hillary or whoever the Dem candidate will be, needs every Dem vote in Florida, see: 2000 clusterfuck.

I respect your honesty.

Steve

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
211. I don't know what I'd do if I lived in FL- but then again, no offense, living there is
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:04 PM
Jun 2014

unimaginable to me.

thanks, steve

Eva

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
213. We really can do so much better! If only....
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:28 PM
Jun 2014

She would put the 99% ahead of her ambition.

Warren, FFS!

moriah

(8,311 posts)
215. And you'll be one of the ones I bitch about if we deal with yet another Republican in the WH.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:30 PM
Jun 2014

(though of course I do love you Cali and I hope that you don't leave DU)

It's only with the unity of the party that we will keep the WH for 12 or 16 years. 8 was pretty damn good, and we got those years partially because of Hillary supporters like me who didn't let bitterness get in the way of what we know is best for the country -- that any Democrat in the WH is better than any Republican being there.

Until we implement run-off voting, a Democrat staying at home or voting third party means a vote from a Republican wasn't countered.

Your vote, your choice, but I beg of you to reconsider your position for the good of the country.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
218. So because Arkansas has a snowball's chance of going blue even if Hillary'd gotten the nod...
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:44 PM
Jun 2014

.... I would have been justified in sitting out the election?

I didn't just vote for Obama, I did a lot of calling to battleground states. I donated what money I could. I'm glad I did, and I don't want to see us lose the ground we've gained by a Republican taking office.

Of course, I do have to say I think our main focus now as a party should be on the elections in November 2014, not 2016.

Take care hon, as I said, love ya lots even if we disagree on this issue.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
220. I think you are jumping the gun.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:57 PM
Jun 2014

What if she promises to roll back the Patriot Act, keep SS off the table, work for Single Payer..... Need I go on?

Dont judge her on her past history.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
230. Ask me if I give a flying f*ck?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:05 PM
Jun 2014

That goes for anyone else who will refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee, whether it be Hillary or someone else.

Thanks for letting us know your real agenda.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
264. If you want the support of the left, dont nominate Wall Street's baby, H. Clinton-Sachs. It's up to
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:17 AM
Jun 2014

you. It's time for change from the status quo. You know that Clinton-Sachs doesnt give a crap about the 99%. So it's up to you. Cali has the guts to stand up for Democratic values and others here support the status quo and the death of the lower classes.

So what do you say? Wall Street/Clinton uber alas?

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
266. The majority of self identified progressives support Hillary.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:21 AM
Jun 2014

I don't give a fig what a handful of people decide to do.



 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
268. No you will dance in the street as Wall Street-Clinton wins. You dont give a crap about the poor or
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:24 AM
Jun 2014

middle class as long as you win. Clinton-Sachs is a Wall Street shill and you know it. And I dont believe your polls. Too convenient for Clinton, the oligarch's baby.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
281. Oh, the drama and the hyperbole..............
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:45 AM
Jun 2014

Not to mention the overwrought B.S. You don't believe the polls? Then reality is going to bite you in the a$$. BTW, the person in your sig, has no interest in running.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
231. fine. i'll say it. you betcha i will vote for hillary or any democrat. i want supreme court.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:06 PM
Jun 2014

and ya. even just that would get my ass down there to vote.

Liberal Veteran

(22,239 posts)
237. That worked out so well for us in 2000 that you would risk a repeat?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:24 PM
Jun 2014

"What could my Nader vote possibly hurt?"

totodeinhere

(13,034 posts)
370. Of course she would or so would Warren. But this forum is about giving
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:12 PM
Jun 2014

out our opinions and the OP has the right to express hers.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
256. No one I know has ask THIS question...
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:06 AM
Jun 2014

Who would you vote for? Write in?

I wish she had the biggest honest support, rather than "settling for the lesser of two evils", which is what we keep doing over and over and over. I wanted her to be that from the start. She was not.

I think the story of the Clintons as portrayed in "Primary Colors" reveals it. They had to do what they had to do to get to power so that that could do AT THAT TIME, what was right.

This never seems to happen, does it? You either become the person that "settles" for survival, or something else happens, like you get assassinated.

Too bad we're so broken, cali. Thanks for your honesty.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
294. The same could be said of those who vote in lock step...
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:57 AM
Jun 2014

Latest evidence of this mindless exercise was Eric Cantor's outcome.

It's become a sport where people post little "laughing my ass off" emoticons if they exercise their constitutional duty at the polls.

That isn't anything to laugh about. What's more likely something to cry about is the typical bullying posted here to "go along" when someone admits they won't settle anymore for a candidate like HRC.

How typical of you.

d_b

(7,451 posts)
263. I live in a safe blue state now, so I'm with ya
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:16 AM
Jun 2014

I have enough blood on my hands, courtesy of President Drone. Not looking forward to the day when Hillary has to prove she's 'tough'--fuck that.

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
271. Ralph, is that you buddy?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:49 AM
Jun 2014

If so, thanks a bunch for giving us Dubya in 2000. And if there's any way you can help hand off the entire country to Teabaggers in 2016, have at it!

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
272. 89 "liberals" who prefer a Republican like Ted Cruz to Hillary Clinton
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 12:59 AM
Jun 2014

There is nothing liberal about promoting the electoral prospects of the GOP. That is among the reasons a number of people say this online community is far more conservative than the people we know in our real lives. I wish I could say I was surprised at the popularity of this thread, but I'm not. When people spend their days moaning about how badly middle and upper-middle class white people are so oppressed by a small handful of people of color, they show their true colors.

Amazing that people claim a person of color speaking about her experiences being subject to racism sows division while significant numbers here actively work to defeat Democratic electoral prospects in favor of the GOP. I've said this before: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck, even if it thinks it's a swan.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
290. You are here encouraging others to refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:32 AM
Jun 2014

when we don't even yet have a primary race. You are not simply faced with a difficult and reluctant vote at the time of the general election. You are advocating for people to abandon the Democratic Party and thereby aid GOP electoral prospects. Do you really think all 90 people who rec'd this thread live in sold blue states? And if you think your vote inconsequential, why even bother to post this?

There is no reason to post something like this now other than to sow division.We have no primary contest. Clinton is not a candidate at the moment. Instead, we are in midterms. Yet nearly a hundred people are itching at the bit to cast their vote in ways that help the GOP maintain power. Make no mistake about it. If you refuse to vote Democratic, you are furthering the Republican's electoral prospects. To pretend otherwise is to deny reality.

By adulthood, we all learn that actions have consequences. Mobilizing against the Democratic nominee and hence the party is to help secure a GOP victory. If that's what you and others want, so be it. As I said, I'm not even slightly surprised given the reactionary views on race and gender that have such currency around here. I have not seen such views from you personally, but your campaign gives cover to such people.

If people want a more progressive nominee, they need to get out and work for it. Take a lesson for the Tea Party. They don't sit around online and complain because the party doesn't deliver them a political messiah. They go out and work to get the candidates they want nominated. I see none of that here. Rather I see bashing of a hypothetical Democratic nominee, just at a time when we should be working to mobilize for the midterms. We get the candidates we deserve, and when people do nothing they deserve nothing.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
291. No, I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything. I have no interest in doing that.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:35 AM
Jun 2014

I'm stating my opinion. It's simple; people should make up their own minds about issues.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
342. They tried to censor that comment????
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:25 AM
Jun 2014

I guess posting crap about our strongest candidate is OK, but calling them out on it is not.

Ahhh, censorship........

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
346. No the alerter felt that BB
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:45 AM
Jun 2014

Was calling all the people that rec'd the OP Republicans. The alerter also came across as being very 'familiar' with BB's posts at DU.

I'm not the only person obviously who doesn't see where she is calling people Republicans for liking the post or the OP for that matter.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
350. Me neither.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:49 AM
Jun 2014

I hate censorship. It should only be used for a post that is truly outrageous. Around here it's used far too often when someone's delicate little toes get stepped on. That's not exactly "democratic". I have never alerted or placed anyone on ignore.

bhikkhu

(10,708 posts)
273. I'll vote for Hillary, without any complaint
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 01:13 AM
Jun 2014

I think she represents well the core principles of the party, and has the experience to do the jobs well. Those two things - principles and the ability to do the job - being the main reason to support anyone.

The anti-Hillary stance just seems like the kind of hate I've seen for Obama. It doesn't seem to be based on anything real, or more "gut" feelings than actual positions or policies. The problem with that is that those kinds of feelings are so easily manipulated. Most people don't really realize that they can be made to hate other people they haven't even met by a few clever tricks, but it is so.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
297. I am not a republican. If you believe that, go to admin and tell them I should be booted
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:22 AM
Jun 2014

from DU. If they agree, then that's what they'll do- and so be it.

I'm a Democrat. I've been one for 40+ years. The only republican I've ever voted for is Jim Jeffords who was more liberal than the majority of his House and Senate compatriots on the D side.

I'm a progressive. I oppose corporatist dem politicians.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
305. Refusing to vote for a Democratic nominee makes you identical to a Republican
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:41 AM
Jun 2014

One cannot refuse to vote for the only viable candidate running against a Republican and also call oneself Progressive as doing so stands against everything progressive and stands on the side of batshit right wing insanity.

To do what you claim you will do makes you a conservative Republican. The results of your actions will speak louder than your words and hollow claims to being progressive.

End of story.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
315. Only if one is under some sort of a delusion.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:15 AM
Jun 2014

I live in Vermont. Do you grasp that VT will go dem? Obama (who I voted for twice) had his 3 largest win in Vermont, after D.C. and Hawaii, both election cycles.

It's utter bullshit to claim that I'm a conservative republican and despicable calumny- go look up that word.

End of fucking story, dear.

Oh, and don't forget to run to admin with your nonsense claim that I'm a "conservative repub"

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
320. I will always consider you nothing more than just another Republican
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:26 AM
Jun 2014

We are political enemies.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
347. All purists on the LEft accomplish are moving the party further to the right.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:45 AM
Jun 2014

Every time I hear a purist on the Left I am faced with the fact that I MUST accept a bit more movement by the party to the right.

Democratic candidates can never afford to chase votes on the Left.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
349. Ummm...sure. See, we are playing 12-D chess, while you're playing checkers, and
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:49 AM
Jun 2014

we're giving you enough rope to hang yourselves, and we like to post pretty pictures of the prez eating ice cream, and....

Supporting fracking, Race To The Bottom, and TPP are what's causing the party to become the Republicans.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
292. Please.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:36 AM
Jun 2014

PLEASE. May you and others like you STFU if HRC is nominated. PLEASE. DU won't ban or block you. We saw that in 2012. Please STFU. Let us political junkies enjoy the drama without the BS anti-Clinton sentiment here. Give us that. Let us have a few months of peace from the hateful, vile, bullshit slanders against the nominee. You'll have from 2016-2024 to shit on the Democrat.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
295. Naw
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:15 AM
Jun 2014

It will be the same people, the same overwrought handwringing, the same holier than thou platitudes, the same batshit paranoia, and the same melodramatic disappointment.

Lather, rinse, repeat.....




joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
296. I only ask for a few months.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:19 AM
Jun 2014

Just, spare us, for that few months. I hope the OP and those like them will give us that.

We'll be here. We'll forge on. We'll continue fighting for the cause. But those those purists who in actuality don't do anything? Give us a fucking break. Let the OP abandon all hope and STFU. Let many more follow. We're going to get the job done.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
299. Reading is fundamental. I said in the OP
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:25 AM
Jun 2014

I will leave for the duration if she's the nominee. Or at the very least I won't say anything against her should she be the nominee.

But no I won't shut up for a second until that happens.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
301. Good.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:32 AM
Jun 2014

I hope more if not all of the haters leave for the duration if she is the nominee. I will have the peace I have not experienced here since pre-2003. DU will will be enjoyable, again, at last. Please live up to this promise.

As I assure you, barring a Clinton run, you will be gone. Gone, silenced. Giving us the peace of mind us political realists have longed for. Go on, ramble to your hearts content, but please, leave us in peace when your sad reality doesn't come to fruition. Just leave us alone. We want this, we desire this, let us have a few months peace. That's all we ask for. Your petulant rambling is like a bee buzzing incessantly in our ears. We only ask for some damn peace and quiet.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
303. Lol. You have inspired me, my dear.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:38 AM
Jun 2014

and try not speaking for others. It's so weak.

I live up to my promises. You? Hmm. that's an interesting query.

I'll redouble my efforts to advocate for another dem candidate for President.

Don't like that? Good.

Oh, and no I'm not a hater. Opposition to a politician is not hate. You seem to have no problem expressing hate toward me. go look in the mirror if you want to see.....

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
308. Please do.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:53 AM
Jun 2014

You have two options. Either one is music to my ears. Please choose. Go away, or advocate against the nominee. I encourage the latter. It will make things all the more enjoyable because we'll be guaranteed one less detractor. MIRT or the admins will make sure of that.

Either way, if you live up to your promise to STFU or blow out as you potentially indicate here, that's one less bumble bee buzzing incessantly.

I can't wait. 2016 can't some soon enough.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
312. I never promised to stfu. those are your little words.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:10 AM
Jun 2014

and as I said, I've got a long time before there's a dem nominee. so delightful for you. don't lose it entirely over my obviously too important to you posts.

I think it's amusing that you get so frothed out over a poster on a political discussion board. go check your blood pressure.

As for me, I've got a garden to tend, (go celery root) and other things to do.

Have fun stewing in your own anger and rage, josh.



joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
314. "I'll gladly leave DU for the duration."
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:14 AM
Jun 2014

Clinton, barring health issues, will be the nominee. See ya!

Rage? I am totally at bliss knowing at least one poster here will STFU ("leave DU for the duration&quot .

It brings me such contentment. I hope more follow suit.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
317. love to break this to you: leaving for the duration is not synonymous with STFU. duh.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:19 AM
Jun 2014


sorry you had to have that explained in plain English, josh.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
322. Have a blow out.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:27 AM
Jun 2014

Even better. Please, by all means, shit on Clinton, by all means. I advocate it. It'll spur many others to do the same. They will bring me such peace of mind, I encourage it.

"I'll gladly leave DU for the duration."

Doubt you'll try to advocate against a Clinton nomination, though.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
319. Since we are asking, would you and others like you refrain from ad hominem attacks and ridicule
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:24 AM
Jun 2014

and argue Clinton's stands on issues?

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
324. I will voraciously attack Clinton.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:30 AM
Jun 2014

I will refuse to shit on the Democratic nominee, especially if it is Clinton. I will vote for Clinton and will probably, by necessity, advocate for her beyond any candidate I have ever done so. I will canvas, GOTV, and caucus incessantly.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
331. Highly ironic comment
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:09 AM
Jun 2014

Considering that virtually every single one of your posts includes some sort of jab or snide remark about DU'ers.

Holier than thou? You may not want to go there.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
333. So is that a "no" you wont be discussing Clinton's stands on issues? And I am surprised that you
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:44 AM
Jun 2014

follow all my posts. I post in threads on the TPP, fracking, indefinite detention, the Patriot Act, net neutrality, the XL Pipeline, etc., and I never see you there.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
351. Ad hominem attacks and ridicule?????????
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:56 AM
Jun 2014

Well, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black........

Oh, the irony........

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
361. And you prove my point. I asked if the Clinton supporters would be willing to discuss issues.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:40 AM
Jun 2014

And you are the third to give me the no answer. Do you support Clinton's stand on the TPP?

eridani

(51,907 posts)
293. I agree with your description, but will vote for her anyway
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:38 AM
Jun 2014

There is such a thing a strategic longterm thinking.

Blue_Adept

(6,384 posts)
304. so instead of more negative Hillary posts, will we start seeing pro-candidate posts?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:38 AM
Jun 2014

I mean, how much energy during primary season will you expend on someone that will never get your vote?

Instead of adding to the toxicity of it all, how about spending time promoting the candidate you want to see win?

Instead of pissing over other Democrats with their choice, extol your choice.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
323. I notice that the Clinton-Sachs supporters never provide positive arguments about her
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:28 AM
Jun 2014

stands on issues. Do you support her stand on the TPP, fracking, Patriot Act, indefinite detention, etc.

So back at yeah, "Instead of adding to the toxicity of it all, how about spending time promoting the candidate you want to see win? " Instead of the ad hominem attacks, tell us what Democratic issues she supports.

Blue_Adept

(6,384 posts)
325. I'm certainly not a Clinton supporter
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:37 AM
Jun 2014

If you read that into my post, that's your issue.

I'd rather see Cali spend hundreds of posts talking about someone she believes in rather than continually tearing someone else down. I have no horse in this race yet. A lot of potential candidates are just that.

I couldn't give one, two or three flying fucks about Clinton. But I'd rather see Cali redirect her energy - and that of other Democrats - towards talking about what they want and the candidates that represent their desires.

If that's an ad hominem attack - or an attack at all - then that's just fucking insane.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
306. double kick+r
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 07:43 AM
Jun 2014


Wouldn't vote for her under any circumstances.
She stands for Goldman Sachs, TPP and bloody interventions.
I find her and her despicable husband repulsive. Shame on the party
for embracing the sell out of the middle class.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
326. Starting w/ Timothy Geitner
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:46 AM
Jun 2014

Blocking torture photos, continuing to operate international prisons--holding people without allowing them to challenge their detention, continuation of the Thin-Thread/Prism and overall secret authoritative serveliance, going after the ones who exposed crimes w/ a determination not seen when it comes to war crimes/crimes by agencies and private contractors in international conflicts and the warrantless spying when cleaning this shit up should be priority. Transparent & lawful enforcement was what President Obama told voters.

I pretty much don't have any hope or realistic expectation will have a honest, straight forward, open President interested in ending the post-9/11 policies that have left a black mark on this country.

Hillary Clinton is someone I don't see being much worse. I imagine we would have doubled down on Afghanistan as well as expanding anywhere else we have forces. Probably would have continued Bush administration policies regarding detention, enforcement, and domestic surveliance.

I really don't see anyone that really jumps at me--Biden, if he runs, I see as another downgrade. Someone you know that won't be affected at all by big money are people like Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, people like that I would like to see President.

I'd still probably vote Clinton depending on third-party candidates but social policy will be better than GOP alternative as well as not nearly as bad economically(reduced safety nets while more people make low income while increasing the share of the wealth w/ the top 1%).

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
327. If you don't vote for the Democratic nominee
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jun 2014

Then you HELP the Republican to win. You have no business whining about it.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
336. Yes Freddie and that's the point. Vote for Clinton-Sachs and 8 more years
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jun 2014

of Wall Street domination. Oh yeah, and NSA/CIA domination.

Eight more years of watching the middle and lower classes slide into oblivion. When will you draw the line? When will you recognize that the wealthy oligarchs are running this country?

Evergreen Emerald

(13,069 posts)
329. Someone recd this for "honesty and courage" NO...
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:51 AM
Jun 2014

this post is not honesty or courage. It is shortsightedness, and big on talking points and short on facts.

greenman3610

(3,947 posts)
330. because there's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush. remember?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 08:59 AM
Jun 2014

remember how that worked out?

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
344. courts do matter
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

By not voting for the Democratic candidate you create a chance for the GOP on the ropes due to changing demographics to rule by judicial fiat. Consider that. Hillary will be as liberal as Congress is...help elect Democrats.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
353. Hmm... risk going over the cliff with a republican president or
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:05 AM
Jun 2014

continue a death of a thousand cuts at the hands of corporate democrats. So much for democracy...

brooklynite

(93,844 posts)
356. Well! You've certainly taught ME a lesson...
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:14 AM
Jun 2014

I'd better drop Hillary and find a candidate that YOU'LL support (never mind that she has the support of about 2/3 of all Democrats (including "liberals&quot ; and I'd better do it soon since you apparently can't be bothered to do so (you didn't bother to tell us who you WOULD vote for, and you don't even have an Elizabeth Warren sticker in your sig line).

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
357. Freerepublic salutes you OP
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:15 AM
Jun 2014

I have no doubt!

This is crazy seeing a post like this on DU! WTF? x 100!!!!

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
358. I can understand how you feel.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:16 AM
Jun 2014

I'd still vote for whomever becomes the Democratic candidate.
Hell, I voted for Obama, and I distrusted him just about as much as I distrust Hillary. The difference between them for me was how fast they would be able to mobilize their cabinet.

I went for Hillary back then when it was just the two of them left, the two of them were at the bottom of who I wanted to win the primaries.

I worry about the Supreme Court, but yeah, I definitely understand how you feel and will not hold this against you.

totodeinhere

(13,034 posts)
368. I sympathize with you. But if she gets the nomination and her opponent
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:07 PM
Jun 2014

is some Tea Bagger like Cruz I will be forced to hold my nose and vote for her.

 

dirtydickcheney

(242 posts)
372. I voted for Obama for one reason in the 2008 Primary
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:18 PM
Jun 2014

Hillary was described as someone who about 50% of the population wouldn't vote for under any circumstance and I didn't want any more republican presidents.

Doubt she would have been much different than what we see from the Obama administration though.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
373. Then I'm holding you personally responsible for either making sure a better candidate is nominated,
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:19 PM
Jun 2014

or for the next four years of our suffering if a republican is elected.

I don't want Hillary either, but I cannot stand by and watch a republican get elected and destroy the country, knowing that I did nothing to try to prevent it.

totodeinhere

(13,034 posts)
376. That's ridiculous. The OP's comment is not going to be responsible for
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 02:52 PM
Jun 2014

electing a Republican. Sheesh. She is in Vermont, probably the safest state for the Democrats in the country. If as a protest she does not vote for Clinton it will make no difference whatsoever.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
382. It was a comment really meant for the general population of Democrats who are
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:16 PM
Jun 2014

planning to not vote against Jeb Bush if Clinton is the Dem candidate.

Back in 1999 and 2000, I was literally screaming at friends who were Democrats and told me they were not going to vote, or that they were going to vote for Nader. I knew all about Bush and knew what he would do to our country.

After a few years in Bush hell, I had several people say to me, remorsefully, "Oh, OMG, Zorra, you were right, I should have listened to you. We're fucked".

Yep.

I moved to Mexico in early 2001, and lived there until 2005.

totodeinhere

(13,034 posts)
389. OK, when you wrote "I'm holding you personally responsible" I assumed you were directly
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jun 2014

addressing the OP.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
393. Yeh, I know that is how it appears, not trying to deceive anyone, just
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:57 PM
Jun 2014

trying to save LGBT gains in equality, and make my grandkids future a little better.

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
378. Fine. That is your right and your decision.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:03 PM
Jun 2014

But by not voting for the Dem nominee, you essentially vote for the Rep.

There is NO Dem nominee - NONE - that is as bad as any Rep. There is NO equivalence.

If you still don't understand that, then I am truly surprised at you.



Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
379. So if we have a president named Cruz, or Paul or Perry, you'll accept partial responsibility?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jun 2014

And giving one of those guys the keys to the Supreme Court nominations would be criminal. Use your brains.

MoonchildCA

(1,301 posts)
388. I'm no fan of Hillary...
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:30 PM
Jun 2014

...in fact, I hope she doesn't run. (Of course, she will.) I also hope we have a large pool of progressives running against her to choose from.

That being said, I'd vote for Mitt Romney if it came down to a choice between him, and say, a Ted Cruz. I will always vote for the candidate that will do the least harm to this country, because no matter how bad things get, they can always get worse. To Hell with standing on principle...

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
390. well I won't leave DU.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 03:49 PM
Jun 2014

if a tussle over DU2 to DU3 didn't I doubt Hillary would.

But I'm not a conservative. She is. She's way too connected to the UAE and oil interests to be much use to the environmentalists , Bill was the same way. They both own the same stock that almost took over our ports that Bush Jr does. And voting Hillary looks back. I wanna look forward. A vote for Bush Jr was the same thing. a vote back.

the other thing was being in the Iowa Caucus her followers are severely arrogant. 2008 at UNI in Cedar Falls they were 5 minutes late and hardly anything was set up. By then I'd come in for Obama and 1/2 the room was there for Obama and was pushing John Edwards pictures out to other tables. Hillary came dead last behind Biden. They assumed she'd win easily. I don't need Mitt Romney again..

 

stupidicus

(2,570 posts)
395. I'm not far from where you are
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jun 2014

and may get there if that proverbial last straw materializes.

You're entirely correct imo -- there should be a point for all of us where pragmatism can make the idea of having and holding "principals" rather meaningless and more an exercise in paying lip service to them or a violation of them, kinda the way so many rightwingers today do with the Bible (well, the New Testament anyway) and its content for example.

Sometimes I think things may have to get a lot worse before they can ever get better, and this decades long slow march rightward by faux dems/libs in DC may not be stopped or reversed in any other way but through a showing of disapproval in the manner you intend to pursue.

And as we all do or should know, the being taken for granted (as exemplified by many responders to this post) due to fear of rightwingnuttery and whatnot the good cop/bad cop game in DC has resulted in, inevitably has the same result in the voter/pol relationship that it does in out interpersonal ones when the benefits stemming from such a relationship are insufficient, except to the co-dependent/enabler types. That's why the dem enthusiasm erodes when what could or should have been crashes into what is.

I've thought since the creation of the Tea Party that it was all about an infusion of nuttery designed for and intended to push the already off center ideological dividing line in DC further rightward, and it's the fear of them you can read throughout this post that that gave the good cop/bad cop game new life and vigor it would have otherwise lacked.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
396. Cue horrified gasping, choking, and over the top hysteria here.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:01 PM
Jun 2014

Add some personal attacks, some dire predictions of the world ending because of you, some political bullying, some misguided attempts to explain in a patronizing manner how misguided and wrong you are, and plenty of reminders that you don't belong on DEMOCRATIC underground!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't read any of the almost 400 responses. I don't need to.

fwiw, I won't be casting a vote for HRC, myself.

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