We certainly defeated Iraqs military almost immediately.

But in other senses, we could probably never win.

Bryant

Kobiyashi Maru.

withdrawn all troops - would things be better or worse - I can't help but think they'd be better for us and the Iraqis.

I don't know I hoped that when invaded it might turn out well - I wasn't confident that it would but I didn't believe that it definitely wouldn't. Or to put it another way I thought the invasion was a mistake, but once it's done, you have to hope it will be successful.

Bryant

We in the military then knew it would be a rollover of the Iraqi army...

When we started asking questions of "What happens after we win" the answers led us to believe a Charlie Fox was in the works. The 'plan' was the Iraqis would love us dearly and all accept democracy overnight...

I talked with higher pay grades who were trying to sound alarms but the feedback from the Pentagon was "Y'all are dumb grunts, what do you know about wars"- from people who never had been in the military, let alone a war.

It is so demoralizing to see our predictions come true. The only surprise is that Iraq has remained stable this long.

Not to mention most expensive.

On phone. When I get home from work, I'll repost the link to a guy who seems to have figured out a way to solve this little problem.

As my husband says, swords were invented in the place that became Iraq so they could better fight wars. I counter with the fact that no one has won a war in Afghanistan - Alexander the Great, the British, the Russians, no one.

He may have been an alcoholic with delusions of godhood but he knew better than to keep on fighting there.

Kan't u reed!

that was doomed to fail from the start. However, Saddam is not there selling oil in Euros either.

The stated goal vs the real goal.

The profiteers stole lives, communities and shiploads of money from all nations involved.

We lost when we shut up and let them kill for money.

It was about oil and by the way where is the 9 billion that went missing. The republiCONS had no problem giving away our money but when its concerning us there is a problem. When making a deal with the republiCONS it is usually some Bluedog Dems who know nothing about this country and its people.

Ask the so call CONservatives and bluedog Dems and its always a problem or some type of stipulations but not when it comes to the rich or if they want to give it away for what ever group they Dems more important,or their favorite bombs or something to kill someone. They are killing us to save us,its for our protection..

Unemployment,housing,infrastructure,jobs,healthcare,etc..We can't use our own money for us but its ok for everyone else we have to bargain and there are always strings attached.

Does anyone remember when they had slabs of money in large pallets and we saw them passing it out to everyone this was around the time when Dan Senor hightailed his ass over there.

A lot of these TEABAGGERS know nothing about what was going on at the time and a lot of the republiCONS who support them and their lies go along with what they hear because of lies and patriotic bullshit when many who talk the most shit have never served or their children.

Remember those pallets of cash ($8 billion!) that just went missing off the tarmac of some Iraqi airfield?

Daddy..

It has been a complete success, in that regard.

Wasn't it "Curveball" who said that?

The Iraq War was going to pay for itself, according to Rummy.

Shock and Awe... 'scuse me while I upchuck a little.

Over here at DU none of us believed it for a minute, but the MSM ratcheted up the propaganda machine with special music and graphics and enough people believed, and certainly enough congress critters believed...

Someone at the time wrote a very cogent op ed pointing out that the US military certainly could depose Saddam Hussein and "win the war," but that what would follow would be the "Peace from Hell." He was right.

Saddam Hussein was the "glue" that kept the artificial construct known as "Iraq" together. Much like Tito in Yugoslavia, when gone it simply was a countdown to disintegration.

That's entirely up to the Iraqi people.

I certainly think he was a bad actor, but I sure don't think his removal from power and death are a "big win" for the Iraqi people in any significant way- at least not compared to the instability and death and destruction that have reigned in Iraq due to the invasion by the U.s.

And it sure the fuck is NOT solely up to the Iraqi people. The U.S. broke that country. Not saying we should muck about more, but it's the death and destruction ensuing from that evil, stupid shit war, is the responsibility of the country.

If you want to understand just how evil Hussein actually was, consider this: as bad as we have rucked that country up, and despite killing potentially hundreds of thousands of civilians, the Iraqi people don't hate us. Let that sink in without rationalization. He wasn't just that bad, he was worse. He was a man who looked at Stalin and Hitler thought 'Those guys didn't understand horror.'

I am reminded of Hitchens, one of the few journalists to spend any time there prior to the original Gulf War. He said something along the lines of this, 'Whenever someone says, 'Sure Hussein was bad, but...' you know they simply don't understand.'

Now I know that none of that moved you even an inch. I love you anyway. But on this issue I think you and most of our party are wrong.

The Iraqi army has proved itself a worthy successor to its expensively propped up counterpart in South Vietnam.

You're right that this will all be pinned on Obama.