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bravenak

(34,648 posts)
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:23 AM Jun 2014

White People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over

Last edited Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:20 AM - Edit history (1)

Rebecca Hiscott
Posted 06/10/2015




As the votes were tallied for the 2008 presidential election, conservative pundit William Bennett weighed in on the election's significance. “I’ll tell you one thing it means, as a former secretary of education,” Bennett said on CNN. “You don’t take any excuses anymore from anybody who says, ‘The deck is stacked.'”

Bennett, who is white, suggested that if Barack Obama could become president, so could any black man. Implicit in the argument was that systemic racial discrimination was no longer keeping black men and women from success.

Bennett is far from alone in arguing that a single black American's success is proof that impenetrable racial barriers no longer exist. In fact, it's a common view, according to a recent study published in the peer-reviewed Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

The study authors, Clayton R. Critcher, assistant professor at University of California Berkeley, and Jane L. Risen, associate professor at the University of Chicago, found that exposure to a single African-American in a high-performing position -- any position outside stereotypical jobs in which blacks “traditionally” excel -- is enough to make whites more likely to deny the existence of systemic racism.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/racism-success-study_n_5474419.html

348 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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White People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over (Original Post) bravenak Jun 2014 OP
Not all white people! TexasProgresive Jun 2014 #1
LOL!nt bravenak Jun 2014 #2
Do you ever Livluvgrow Jun 2014 #3
You can ignore me. bravenak Jun 2014 #4
Besides racism what issues do you point out? Livluvgrow Jun 2014 #8
I did not write it. A white woman did. I guess she's guilty of whatever you think it is. bravenak Jun 2014 #12
I noticed that - that it was written by a white woman JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #30
Yes to everything you said.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #34
read this op/thread by MrScorpio JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #35
Thank you.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #38
Have you questioned ANY other DU ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #134
What's wrong with pointing out racism? Isn't that important enough? fishwax Jun 2014 #223
"Doesn't seem that way to me" I didn't think so, either, at first.....nt AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #317
If you're secure in your own "non-racism" why does this thread bother you? Ken Burch Jun 2014 #328
Fixating on the trees and missing the forest... TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #125
Ridiculous. bravenak Jun 2014 #126
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #135
Jesus Christ! bravenak Jun 2014 #163
You dont have to be interested in the future... it will come regardless of you. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #169
It's not that i have no vision of the future. bravenak Jun 2014 #170
Again, you make the point. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #173
So i'll just pretend that none of the bad stuff exists. bravenak Jun 2014 #175
Your efforts are better used elsewhere. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #179
You do realize that i heard about him years ago? bravenak Jun 2014 #184
I am so sorry for your loss, bravenak. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #227
Thank you, i got through it. bravenak Jun 2014 #228
And that makes me want to cry. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #230
Had to leave my ex so that it never happened again. bravenak Jun 2014 #231
hugs to you RainDog Jun 2014 #248
I wasn't trying to make you sad. bravenak Jun 2014 #256
I'm sorry for your loss. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #251
Thank you.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #255
I too am sorry for your loss... TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #266
I'll be dead by 2050. bravenak Jun 2014 #269
Well, good luck then. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #272
Science Fiction. bravenak Jun 2014 #278
What you are describing LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #157
Youll excuse me if I give more weight to someone with a tad more credibility than you? TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #168
You are the one who is anti-science LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #181
Thank you. n/t Jamastiene Jun 2014 #252
It's obvious you misunderstand the 2nd law. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2014 #265
It sounds like you are saying everything is Jamastiene Jun 2014 #250
Transitory issue that will soon be gone? liberalhistorian Jun 2014 #275
No, this is an important issue. ananda Jun 2014 #28
You've stated this very well ananda JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #31
Excellent point, i will look forward to reading your other stuff here randys1 Jun 2014 #107
. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #129
Well ... Not ALL threatened white folks do that! ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #136
Pfttt. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #37
Well stated! nyabingi Jun 2014 #66
well said! Blue_Roses Jun 2014 #69
+1 nt laundry_queen Jun 2014 #104
BTW, I neglected to tell you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #139
I've actually seen that commercial again since, and paid more attention to it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #153
"Apparently the OP doesn't talk about racism as much as I thought" Not from my experience. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #318
Seems like YOU like to put words in people's mouths. canuckledragger Jun 2014 #50
does have have to think of anything else? why or why not? tia uponit7771 Jun 2014 #91
Wow, you didnt even try and discuss the OP and the real and important issues therein randys1 Jun 2014 #105
What a steaming load of self-serving crap. (nt) Heidi Jun 2014 #137
Couldn't have said it better. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #236
Actually to the contrary, truthfully speaking. nt AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #322
Either there is an airline liberalhistorian Jun 2014 #274
The author of the OP AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #295
This is quite a problem indeed, Livluvgrow. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #316
Why is it important to you to DISCOURAGE threads about racism? Ken Burch Jun 2014 #327
I get along very well with Bravenak BainsBane Jun 2014 #340
this article came through my facebook newsfeed via "the nation" moments after i saw this thread! m-lekktor Jun 2014 #5
Yes. It will be very interesting. bravenak Jun 2014 #11
I'd take that as a complement. thucythucy Jun 2014 #106
Well then thank you, i will try to see it like that.nt. bravenak Jun 2014 #109
You are Black, therefore you are suppose to ask permission first so as not to upset randys1 Jun 2014 #110
I know. bravenak Jun 2014 #111
There are many SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #6
Yeah I am not on board with putting down Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #7
But you see Livluvgrow Jun 2014 #9
What are you people talking about? betsuni Jun 2014 #19
I had a "wth" feeling reading some of the comments...agree with your sentiments. Deuce Jun 2014 #71
I'm with you wryter2000 Jun 2014 #143
where is "putting down people for success" in the OP? I must have missed it bettyellen Jun 2014 #96
Hmm. That isn't my recollection BainsBane Jun 2014 #337
Does anyone realize that i do not write these articles?nt bravenak Jun 2014 #10
I thank you for posting theHandpuppet Jun 2014 #13
I really have only been posting stuff for like a week. bravenak Jun 2014 #14
Doesn't it ever! KitSileya Jun 2014 #16
You can't. bravenak Jun 2014 #17
Even if it was Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #20
I don't think some people read them anyway when they post. bravenak Jun 2014 #23
I don't see it that way. ananda Jun 2014 #29
your comment makes me angry as hell, but I dont want to be banned so that is all i will say randys1 Jun 2014 #121
I read, then re-read ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #140
how do you figure? fishwax Jun 2014 #224
Yeah when Clarence Thomas became Ichingcarpenter Jun 2014 #15
LOL! Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #130
Duzy wryter2000 Jun 2014 #142
Stop dividing DU with posts that point out racism. boston bean Jun 2014 #18
I know, right? bravenak Jun 2014 #21
Yeah join the club of the perpetually accused of dividing the always undivided DU. boston bean Jun 2014 #22
Well i should stick to the 'real' issues that they care about. bravenak Jun 2014 #24
Those are the only ones worthy of discussion I suppose. boston bean Jun 2014 #26
I wish that were the case, but it ain't. bravenak Jun 2014 #33
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #141
Lol, that is funny. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #253
Study abstract Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #25
Not that I doubt the study, but where are the numbers? WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #43
The citation is there Gormy Cuss Jun 2014 #75
Here's a no-paywall link to the study caraher Jun 2014 #77
Did you read it? I have a real problem with a study that states from the start what WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #222
I think you're not following how papers are written or the implications of the results caraher Jun 2014 #235
Yes I did read it. And yes they clearly state that they keep moving the goal post to accommodate WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #344
That is the way you are characterizing it. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #254
No it's not the way I am characterizing it. I have 2 medical degrees WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #343
That's the abstract ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #144
Donald Sterling proved that racism still exists. Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #27
We don't tolerate vulgar racism. bravenak Jun 2014 #32
This is it exactly - it's about the Pavlovian Dogs JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #36
There will always be SOME racists in every country. 7962 Jun 2014 #45
Ours is loud JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #70
our racist attitudes in the US are loud and proud... there would be no GOP without racism now uponit7771 Jun 2014 #93
Or, assuming that that PoC ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #145
Heh. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #39
Society does tolerate racism and sexism too much. Racism doesn't have to rise to the level of the N uponit7771 Jun 2014 #92
Just like ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #146
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2014 #154
Not publicly and/or overtly. Jamastiene Jun 2014 #348
What a bad headline, an untrue one at that. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #40
A White Woman Wrote The Headline And The Article.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #41
Don't care who wrote it. And she should be criticized as well. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #48
Funny how much these articles upset you. bravenak Jun 2014 #51
Nice try. Don't respond to points actually made, try a straw man. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #55
You seem angry that i posted this. You should contact the writer.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #56
I am not the one posting bait. And that you try to pull the emotional card is classic. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #73
You need to calm down.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #74
DING DING DING you get a lollipop randys1 Jun 2014 #112
Agreed Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #115
It's not bravenak's headline - blame it on those rascals at Huffpo! JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #44
Because it makes her/them "feel" good about how progressive they are. 7962 Jun 2014 #46
Or she isn't really a Progressive JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #49
That may be true, unfortunately. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #319
Well that is a tough one, no let me think. Oh yeah, increased traffic. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #52
No she's not JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #57
Really?? A post is made with a headline that smells like bait, WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #76
Not it's not JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #82
Adding she 'bolded' the word Conservative in the op JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #84
Bait? where is the cliche thread, i wanna add "bait" randys1 Jun 2014 #113
I'm sorry , bait and switch, or in this case bait and denial. WCLinolVir Jun 2014 #345
"Not All Men!", the men proclaimed. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #147
Because before Obama, no black person had EVER become a success? Jeeze. 7962 Jun 2014 #42
True - but it set white people on the Right off JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #53
But I heard the same shit after Clinton won; Socialism was coming! The end of our country! etc 7962 Jun 2014 #102
I don't know - think there is one difference JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #114
In 1994 - another thought JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #118
Uh - William Bennett - conservative pundit . . . JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #47
It's bad because of who posted it. bravenak Jun 2014 #54
No - I think JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #59
Yep. I think so. bravenak Jun 2014 #60
Give me just one reason JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #62
Not ready yet. bravenak Jun 2014 #65
I fear whiny progressives not voting cuz a Black person hurt their feelings too randys1 Jun 2014 #122
oh randy! JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #123
Whiny progressives voted in 2010... WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2014 #333
With regard to what Bennett said, I believe Colin Powell would've won in 2K 7962 Jun 2014 #131
The Family, Dobson, Devos, etc. etc. JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #132
I wouldve preferred Harold Ford too. nt 7962 Jun 2014 #149
Recommend. There is no question when Bennet, and I believe he represents the opportunistic Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #58
Conservatives look for any excuse to do nothing. bravenak Jun 2014 #63
The opportunity to erase their culpability and he damn well knows this to be true. n/t Jefferson23 Jun 2014 #67
Excellent article bravenak! So true. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #61
It's not the color of your skin but rather ignorance that makes that claim liberal N proud Jun 2014 #64
stop the denial and quibbling rustbeltvoice Jun 2014 #68
I also did not find the article to be extreme. bravenak Jun 2014 #72
Great article! octoberlib Jun 2014 #78
I knew it was bull too. bravenak Jun 2014 #81
I don't know why people are complaining about this gollygee Jun 2014 #79
I bolded conservative. bravenak Jun 2014 #80
That was smart JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #83
I had promised to make sure it said conservative in the future. bravenak Jun 2014 #85
Hmmmm....I was *wondering* what "white people think". n/t Smarmie Doofus Jun 2014 #86
Yup. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #87
Bill Cosby does it too. bravenak Jun 2014 #88
C'mon people JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #90
Succesful black men at their apex Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #271
I asked you not to discuss race with me. bravenak Jun 2014 #277
You started this thread Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #292
I love you. bravenak Jun 2014 #293
Ahh I read about those comments JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #89
Maybe not so new. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #94
Tina Turner too JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #95
And not Tyler Perry! Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #98
My husband knows Lenny JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #100
Very good to hear. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #101
Oh stop, I already love you too much Gen. bettyellen Jun 2014 #156
I don't. treestar Jun 2014 #97
Even John McCain forgot that he was an exchange. bravenak Jun 2014 #99
Yes. And then he has the gall treestar Jun 2014 #148
That is exactly what i was trying to say the other day. bravenak Jun 2014 #162
Neil DeGrasse Tyson had a very interesting point IronLionZion Jun 2014 #103
I think about it too. bravenak Jun 2014 #108
I had a conversation along those lines recently loyalsister Jun 2014 #151
There is some truth to that. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #320
I remember laundry_queen Jun 2014 #116
Thank you. bravenak Jun 2014 #117
That's very much like here laundry_queen Jun 2014 #138
I can't figure out what the "controversary" or disagreement is with this article .....? etherealtruth Jun 2014 #119
I have no idea why it is now controversial.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #120
+1 n/t fishwax Jun 2014 #225
Institutional and societal racism, white on Black, is rampant in America today randys1 Jun 2014 #124
That's their main focus. bravenak Jun 2014 #127
I'd just like to take a moment to say Bill Bennet is a racist, homophobic hypocrite Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #128
+1 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #237
For a Black person to reach the higher nyabingi Jun 2014 #133
Really?!?!?!?!? I must be out of the loop 'cuz I'm from the South. I never got the memo! N/T Ghost in the Machine Jun 2014 #150
If racism is holding black people from success, SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #152
Your post illustrates the point of the OP perfectly! etherealtruth Jun 2014 #155
So you can't SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #159
No, you are truly not worth the effort it would take etherealtruth Jun 2014 #160
Attacking me personally SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #161
One black persons success does not mean racism is over. bravenak Jun 2014 #165
Are you suggesting that only one black person has been successful? SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #172
I am suggesting that is harder if you are Black. bravenak Jun 2014 #176
This is exactly what the article described etherealtruth Jun 2014 #189
I think that most people who play this game know exactly what they are doing. bravenak Jun 2014 #190
Of course they do etherealtruth Jun 2014 #195
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #260
LOL, that you think that raising a question about an anomaly like Thompson proves anything.... bettyellen Jun 2014 #166
How is Mr. Thompson SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #174
He's an anomaly because his success counters the mountains of statistical data... Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #204
eggs-actly! mountains of data compiled for decades. bettyellen Jun 2014 #234
Racism has held many black people from success ... kwassa Jun 2014 #182
Poverty isn't exclusive to blacks. SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #203
Poverty created by racism is exclusive to minorities in the US. kwassa Jun 2014 #205
The poster you are responding to doesn't understand proportionality. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #208
Well, SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #209
Where is my role model? Show me. kwassa Jun 2014 #213
Imagine if SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #217
It isn't just mindset. It is also skills and education, and access to that education. kwassa Jun 2014 #220
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #259
Which amounts to a proportion of black Americans in poverty at TWICE the rate of white Americans. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #206
Who helped SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #210
Do you have even the foggiest understanding of systemic racism? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #211
Yes I do. SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #215
No, you don't. You don't understand. But you think you do. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #219
... nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #239
Don Thompson SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #261
Do you even read what I post before responding? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #284
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #286
Are you willfully ignoring or are you actually incapable of understanding what I'm saying? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #287
...The face of poverty is overwhelmingly white... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #218
So who's going to pull SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #262
ROFL gollygee Jun 2014 #187
Jesus Christ. This is why we can't have nice things. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #201
If it's not racism then what is it? C'mon, don't be shy now! nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #238
Same reason I'm not SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #263
And why are you so comfortable applying such a broad generalization to millions of people? nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #273
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #280
Of course they did. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #281
Not at all. SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #285
"We're all the same color between the ears." - Again, sentimental bullshit. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #289
There are always those who appear well-intentioned, but don't think through the implications nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #291
Sure it can be overcome, but it shouldn't *have* to be overcome in the first place. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #290
Ayn Rand still lives, huh? nt alp227 Jun 2014 #298
You're basically the personification of those stupid motivational posters in office cubicles. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #288
Actually for me it was just the opposite, after Obama was elected I discovered Rex Jun 2014 #158
It got worse after the election. bravenak Jun 2014 #164
Yup. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #221
I'm sure Reginald Denny agrees. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #167
Do you have a point? bravenak Jun 2014 #171
Yeah, I just posted it. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #178
I did. bravenak Jun 2014 #180
Sorry. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #185
Who are you? bravenak Jun 2014 #188
I'm RiffRandell! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #192
I was born in 81. bravenak Jun 2014 #193
Like, oh my Gawd! That like, totally sucks! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #197
I'll check it out! bravenak Jun 2014 #199
Totally! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #200
So, Reginald Denny commented on this article? Where did he do that? kwassa Jun 2014 #186
That was in my post. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #191
False. Denny's opinion on the incident was not in your post. kwassa Jun 2014 #198
Then fucking post it and correct me. nt RiffRandell Jun 2014 #202
Here you go. kwassa Jun 2014 #207
Nice! RiffRandell Jun 2014 #212
Now there's a big fat crock. babylonsister Jun 2014 #177
In my area too, but against Native Americans. bravenak Jun 2014 #196
That, I explain, trying to be gentle, is what tokenism is for Warpy Jun 2014 #183
Yes i agree. bravenak Jun 2014 #194
Trick headline in OP. GeorgeGist Jun 2014 #214
You should post a link to the study. bravenak Jun 2014 #216
I posted a link upthread caraher Jun 2014 #232
Thank you.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #233
Unrec. - plain untrue and stupid. 840high Jun 2014 #226
and you base this on what? kwassa Jun 2014 #229
If the answer requires more than Bobbie Jo Jun 2014 #268
Agreed Harmony Blue Jun 2014 #276
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #240
LOL! bravenak Jun 2014 #241
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #242
So, is there a limit to the amount and type of articles i can post? bravenak Jun 2014 #243
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #244
You should post more. bravenak Jun 2014 #245
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #246
The answer is more diversity and communication. bravenak Jun 2014 #247
Great list, bravenak! Cha Jun 2014 #249
Thanks for the results. bravenak Jun 2014 #257
It's only fair. Here in Hawai'i the Hawaiians want Cha Jun 2014 #258
It's funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #264
It is funny. bravenak Jun 2014 #282
That post was hidden and eventually auto-removed. alp227 Jun 2014 #301
I know what's going on. bravenak Jun 2014 #302
Black People Think....(fill in with meaningless generalization) /nt Armstead Jun 2014 #267
If that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #270
It's worse than that. They fear the loss of white male privilege. A lot of white folks McCamy Taylor Jun 2014 #279
But to hear it told ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #283
If you are ever in Orlando, look me up. Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #300
Another blanket accusation of racism against whites AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #294
I bolded conservative for you this time. bravenak Jun 2014 #296
"White People Think" AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #303
You think i wrote this? bravenak Jun 2014 #304
This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Jun 2014 #306
You aren't fooling anyone AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #307
I am not the one who is a racist. bravenak Jun 2014 #308
When someone AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #309
This article is about conservatives. I BOLDED it. bravenak Jun 2014 #310
I like the way you posted it with the bolding steve2470 Jun 2014 #311
Thank you, i will continue to bold key words. bravenak Jun 2014 #313
"I KNOW I have white privilege" "White privilege" doesn't exist as a tangible thing, Steve. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #321
ok we disagree, have a good night nt steve2470 Jun 2014 #325
And ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #330
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #312
You need to stop attacking me. bravenak Jun 2014 #314
You are deflecting AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #315
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #331
Yes. bravenak Jun 2014 #335
It's based on a study. THINK, don't frame. alp227 Jun 2014 #334
I don't take it that way BainsBane Jun 2014 #336
It's funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #342
Jury Results = Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #332
That should have been hidden BainsBane Jun 2014 #339
Agreed. N/t Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #341
Don't talk about racism or the experiences of people of color BainsBane Jun 2014 #338
bennett is an idiot. spanone Jun 2014 #297
He always has been.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #299
I agree, he is. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #323
Just the dumb ones. JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #305
That's true. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #324
I agree with every word. JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #329
A large number do. Ken Burch Jun 2014 #326
This message was self-deleted by its author mia Jun 2014 #346
My whole family has this advantage in varying degrees. bravenak Jun 2014 #347

Livluvgrow

(377 posts)
3. Do you ever
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:45 AM
Jun 2014

think about anything other than whites and racism. Seems like you have an issue with white people. Seems like you have your mind made up that white people are just plane racist. Old white people, progressive white people, all kinds of white people. You act as though you know how white people think, yet will argue that whites cant empathize with blacks.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
4. You can ignore me.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:49 AM
Jun 2014

If i don't post it, who will? You? We matter too and our issues are important.

Livluvgrow

(377 posts)
8. Besides racism what issues do you point out?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:08 AM
Jun 2014

Point is what is your issue with white people? Seems like you are fixated on lumping all white people into the same racist category any chance you get while not really understanding white people.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
12. I did not write it. A white woman did. I guess she's guilty of whatever you think it is.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:18 AM
Jun 2014

I find you very interesting.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
30. I noticed that - that it was written by a white woman
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:10 AM
Jun 2014


You know where I stand on this - and you know what I'm seeing -

And what I am seeing has nothing to do with DU.

I just read that at Fort Carson in CO the soldiers there have found flyers to join the coming race war.

The idiot in Nevada that's been stealing from the American Tax Payers and has is own private army protecting him - what was his name again? Bundy something or another?

The Kochs coming for the young affluent black vote.


Uh - if not now - then when? There are a few topics that we better start discussing on the left and this is one of them. Along with nuts with guns. And dominionists. And soft money. And far reaching organizations.

The shell game is on and the fix is in and folks want to sit around and sing mighty peace and freedom songs and folks - it's not working anymore.

Now at DU - why can't folks see that they better understand precisely what is in the minds of those Fox news viewers. The more we know precisely how they think - the better chance we have to communicate their warped world view to those in the middle. And to present it just like that - warped world view.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
134. Have you questioned ANY other DU ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 03:08 PM
Jun 2014

regarding their posting choices? We have DUers that post almost exclusively about the NSA, or TPP or XL or their disagreement with President Obama about ... well ... everything.

Have you questioned any of these posters?

fishwax

(29,146 posts)
223. What's wrong with pointing out racism? Isn't that important enough?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:21 PM
Jun 2014

"Seems like you are fixated on lumping all white people into the same racist category any chance you get while not really understanding white people."

Doesn't seem that way to me

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
328. If you're secure in your own "non-racism" why does this thread bother you?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 04:07 AM
Jun 2014

I'm white, and the OP doesn't bother me.

Yes, there are some of us (a minority of us, based on general white attitudes towards Obama and other politicians of color as shown in most polls) who try to move away(no white person is totally non-racist, it's just a question of trying to move past it within ourselves and to confront it in society or choosing not to do so)but this hasn't gone away as a problem.

And it is still the great "wedge issue" in American politics...it's still what's used, more than anything else, to get working-class whites to vote against their own economic interests in election after election after election. It's used to prevent the emergence of class unity among working people, the unity that must be prevented, at all costs, if the 1% are to maintain their stranglehold on the rest of us.

And there's no moral law that says a person of color OR a white person must address other issues in order to be allowed to talk about racism.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
125. Fixating on the trees and missing the forest...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:31 AM
Jun 2014

Were at a time when exponentially accelerating technology will produce the equivalent of 20,000 years of progress this century (measured at the average pace between 1980 and 2000). This progress will most certainly give us advanced genetics, nanotechnology, and who knows what else.

If the technology isn’t available to modify your own genome to make yourself black, white, yellow, or purple with pink polka dots by 2050, it most certainly will be shortly thereafter. In this century, heart disease, cancer, even ageing itself will fall to progress. Humanity will expand off this planet and start colonizing space, spreading out into all corners of the universe...

And here you are fixating on a transitory issue that will soon be gone instead of putting your energies to use on something that really matters (that cancer cure sure would be handy).

All this political, racial, economic, squabbling will all be swept away soon enough by the forces that are coming.

Worrying about the sandcastles on the beach while a tidal wave is headed your way is folly indeed. Let's get our priorities right here.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
126. Ridiculous.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:35 AM
Jun 2014

Not interested i trans/post humanism. Unless you have the nanobot technology ready for human use that is safe, tested and free, we still need to work on these issues.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
135. LOL ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 03:18 PM
Jun 2014

WOW ... was that not a study in wishful thinking?

Might I suggest that that poster not concern his/her self with food or water today because he/she will eventually be dead!

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
163. Jesus Christ!
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:50 PM
Jun 2014

Why? I love science fiction too, but i will not just forget everything to become a cyborg.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
169. You dont have to be interested in the future... it will come regardless of you.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:11 PM
Jun 2014

The fact you fixate on today was exactly my point... fixating on those trees - trying to solve problems that aren't going to be relevant in a couple decades. No vision of the future, unable to even imagine whats coming, much less make intelligent projections based on current trending. You might as well be trying to design the next great buggy whip with that backwards thinking.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
170. It's not that i have no vision of the future.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:13 PM
Jun 2014

It's just that you are talking science fiction. When it becomes useable science i will revisit the issue.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
173. Again, you make the point.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:17 PM
Jun 2014

When the future becomes the present, you don't need vision... you accept the given in front of you - like you do now.

If one cant abstract where things are going based on current trending, your basically walking into the future blind. I knew that was the case though given your fixation on racial issues, even though it will be moot in a few decades. There's nothing wrong with concern for inequities of today, but to fixate leaves you unable to work towards whats REALLY coming.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
175. So i'll just pretend that none of the bad stuff exists.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:21 PM
Jun 2014

Income inequality, harrasment by cops, stop and frisk, sentencing disparities, none of this matters because.... The future. No.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
179. Your efforts are better used elsewhere.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:27 PM
Jun 2014

You can work on helping one or two people on transient problems, or you can work towards cures for heart disease and cancer and save millions or billions. What's a more efficient use of your time? Even if you cant do the research yourself, you can support the sciences financially or by trying to motivate others to jump into the fight.

See this video and it should be obvious where it's going.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
184. You do realize that i heard about him years ago?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:39 PM
Jun 2014

I had a child woth a genetic disorder and i was desparate. I looked into everything from cloning to transhumanism, thats how i know what you are talking about. It was indicated to me that it woukd be at least thirty years before anything would be useable in humans. Peopke are suffering now and we can't ignore that to put our hope in Ray and his science fiction. When he makes it fact, get back to me.
There is no cure for what my daughter had and we buried her July 2003. Zellwegers syndrome, look it up. We cannot just leave people to suffer today in order to work on the future. Would you have told me to forget her and just worry about Futurism? You should post about it sonewhere, but i see it as a solution that does not exist yet.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
228. Thank you, i got through it.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:53 PM
Jun 2014

Things like that make you desperate and you will try to find a solution even if it's magic. That's where i heard of that guy. I felt the same way about it as that poster who referred to it did, until it was over.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
230. And that makes me want to cry.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:04 PM
Jun 2014

I had to look up Zellweger syndrome to understand.

You are a strong brave woman.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
231. Had to leave my ex so that it never happened again.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:08 PM
Jun 2014

But i did learn quite a bit about genetics and how to do sterile procedures, it helped me with my daughters. Life is crazy, one day i'll write it all down and publish it on Amazon. I can't even watch Bridget Jones Diary to this day. Her name. Stresses me out.

RainDog

(28,784 posts)
248. hugs to you
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:20 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)



I cannot imagine how hard it would be to lose a child.
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
256. I wasn't trying to make you sad.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 05:11 AM
Jun 2014

I remembered being into that stuff during that time. It was a coping mechanism. Thanks though, i get by.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
266. I too am sorry for your loss...
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:21 AM
Jun 2014

"but i see it as a solution that does not exist yet." -- using that logic we shouldn't search for cures for cancer or heart disease at all... because they aren't here currently.

I stated earlier that some concern for the issues of the day are normal and warranted. What isn't warranted is spending your life's efforts on problems that wont be problems long. i.e. Any child or young adult working to become a translator in another language should know they will be replaced in short order by computers. Translator software is already about as good as a human (and improving) and will be available free on every phone on the planet in short order. By 2050 or thereabouts, race will be as flexible as what clothes you wish to wear today.

There may not be much one can do for your child currently, but spending all your time fighting racists, when race will cease to mean anything shortly, does nothing for those future children who will get the same disease. If you efforts can speed up the process so that even a few of those children are saved, then it's time well spent. It's useful not only to the children with that specific disease, but the science acquired searching for a cure would be useful in numerous other fields and cases.

I understand there's a 99.999% chance to change your mind on this... you've already invested a ton of time obviously on this race issue and you don't want to think you've done the wrong thing. Your going to rationalize your choice any way you can.

But for the sake of all those people you could save, and in an appeal to that .001% chance - think about the lives you could be saving. Those children with parents like you, who have to stand by and watch as nothing is available. If you could look them in the eyes, you would be doing everything possible now to help them.

All it requires is an understanding of where genetic technology is going - so that you'll see that race wont be an issue in a few decades... but your efforts towards moving science forward will save many many lives.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
269. I'll be dead by 2050.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:52 AM
Jun 2014

Just because you think you know the future, doesn't mean you are right. I do not think you are. It has been a problem in this country for 400 years and i'll stop, when it is no longer an issue.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
272. Well, good luck then.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:51 AM
Jun 2014

Rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic isn't going to help much - but you knock yourself out.

I'll close with a clear syllogism.

1. Race is determined by genes.
2. Mankind is going to continue to gain detailed and advanced control of genes over the next 50 years.
3. Therefore mankind will continue to gain detailed and advanced control of race over the next 50 years.

This same control will allow for elimination of disease and death.

But again, you keep working on those sandcastles while the tidal wave is upon us.

LostOne4Ever

(9,267 posts)
157. What you are describing
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:12 PM
Jun 2014

Is a fantasy.

These issues are not going anywhere, and science is not a magic cure all for all the ills in the world. We will never be free of things like aging, discrimination, and I highly doubt we will ever find a "cure" for cancer.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
168. Youll excuse me if I give more weight to someone with a tad more credibility than you?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:07 PM
Jun 2014

As soon as you reach the ranks higher than Director of Engineering at Google (like Kurzweil), maybe someone might listen to you - until then, I suggest you just sit quietly and let the experts build the future.

If there's one thing worse than anti-science religious fanatics, its anti-science luddites who seem to think mankind has perfected technology or themselves with his or her generation.

LostOne4Ever

(9,267 posts)
181. You are the one who is anti-science
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:35 PM
Jun 2014

Thinking that things like aging are going to go away violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

All the universe is nothing more than a huge thermodynamic system that processes energy and the process of doing that, according to the 2nd law, is never 100% efficient. It always creates by products. Usually these by-products are harmful to the thermodynamic system that created them. Don't put a muffler on a car and the gaseous by products will break down the engine.

This is why we can not create a perpetual motion machine. Why things age. Why things decay and break down. Why metals rust, and animals die and decay.

Saying that science will defeat all those things IS ANTI-SCIENCE. Because it directly ignores the scientific laws that you seem to be completely ignorant. Science can not defeat nature because all that composes science is knowledge of nature and how we obtain that knowledge. Science applications is not controlling nature so much as it is piggybacking on it.

To defeat those things would require infinite resources and time...something we do not have.

And I trust Albert Einstein, Carnot, Planck, Boltzman, Clausius, etc far more than your misunderstanding of Kurweil.

TampaAnimusVortex

(785 posts)
265. It's obvious you misunderstand the 2nd law.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:06 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:53 AM - Edit history (2)

Yes, disorder increases in a closed system, until you deliberately reverse it by adding energy and intelligence, which happens every day. The gutters on your house fall off, you replace them. A window breaks, you fix it.

A human body is exactly like a house or a window, disorder will increase in a system until it's fixed. Your body being made of just atoms, can be fixed by moving those atoms around and that doesn't take "infinite" amounts of energy. All it takes is either the energy required to move the atoms back into the order wanted, or to improve the regenerative parts of your body so that it can do it itself. As long as your introducing energy into the system, its not a closed system.

Yes, if you didn't eat, eventually your body would be unable to repair damage it's taken (due to the fact of your body then being a closed system).

The problem is that the repair mechanisms of your body aren't smart enough to fix all the damage you've taken, like oxidized cholesterol. The human body cant normally deal with that, but some life forms can. It's a matter of finding the genes in those life forms that can and introducing them into the normal human DNA - and poof, now you can break it down as well. There is research already down these lines that will certainly be available by 2050. I have provided a link below referencing multiple fronts on which aging is being attacked in this, or some other manner.

If genetic manipulation fails you, then there's always the direct manipulation of atoms and molecules via nanobots. They too don't take "infinite" amounts of energy - no more than your normal cells do.

So please... when it comes to science, its obvious from your use of the 2nd law that you have a superficial understanding of it at best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
250. It sounds like you are saying everything is
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:31 AM
Jun 2014

rosy. Not everyone has the time, nor luxury, to daydream about all the things you mention. Why don't you go start a thread on all that stuff and let people who don't have it so rosy talk about very real things that affect them? MUST you shit all over someone's thread simply because it doesn't pertain to you?

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
275. Transitory issue that will soon be gone?
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 01:07 PM
Jun 2014

Really? Seriously? What fucking planet do you live on and what color is the sky on it? Because you don't have to be non-white to see just how much racism still exists and how deeply it is still entrenched and institutionalized, you just have to be aware. Something you obviously are not. I'm white and I live on an Indian reservation in a blatantly, openly racist western state. Don't tell me that racism is a "transitory" issue of no importance, I see every single fucking day strong evidence of it and it ain't going anywhere, that's for sure.

Only a smug white person who can't get out of their own skin would think that racism is a "transitory" issue.

ananda

(28,783 posts)
28. No, this is an important issue.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:06 AM
Jun 2014

I see this as a subset of tokenism.

The Reeps use tokens persistently and mercilessly to
try to prove they're not "racist."

Whites who feel threatened by the growing majority
of non-whites might feel the need to tokenize in a
sense by seeing one person's success as a way to
dismiss the serious and pervasive racism in this
country.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
107. Excellent point, i will look forward to reading your other stuff here
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:44 AM
Jun 2014

You have said in a few words what i spend all day trying to say...

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
37. Pfttt.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:35 AM
Jun 2014

Hi. Pasty older white guy here. You are totally mischaracterizing the OP.

Does the OP openly talk about racism a lot? Sure. (EDIT: Apparently the OP doesn't talk about racism as much as I thought, but I'm pretty new here, and have been in a variety of threads about racial inequality in which I also saw the OP. endEDIT) To help make up for the fact that most of the rest of us don't talk about it nearly enough. It's an important topic, and one that needs to be actively worked on. And lets face it, most of the time, most of us melanin-deficient types don't bother to. Social justice depends upon people actively working to break down and rebuild the social structures, laws, and ideas that are embedded in our country's culture that derive from centuries of inequality.

Can whites empathize with black people? Again, sure. but it takes a lot of work, a lot of time, and a lot of exposure to what black people live with 24/7/365. We are the sum of our experiences and what we learn from them, and we simply don't experience the same things, so we have to learn more from listening to black people speak about what happens to them, and to actually paying attention and seeing how they are treated differently so often and in so many situations than from actually living it ourselves.

Hell, I'm white and I 'have an issue' with white people - including myself. I'm not perfect, and I slip into the same damn mindset that reinforces social injustice rather than seeks to undo it, because I spent the first two thirds of my life in the same sort of denial, ignorant of just how deeply ingrained racial injustice is in this country. And, more depressingly, being willing to accept the same sort of shallow anecdotal 'evidence' as pointed out above, where the exception is supposed to somehow deny the rule.

So rather than trying to proclaim the OP is some sort of 'reverse racist', maybe you should sit back and spend a bit of time in introspection.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
139. BTW, I neglected to tell you ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jun 2014

in a thread about a week ago ... you pleasantly shocked me. I posted an OP about a Planter's Peanut commercial and argued how the commercial changed the status quo. Many here took issue with my argument (which is fine), but you indicated that you had not even thought about how someone could see it as I did ... until you thought about it.

I can really only speak for myself, but I suspect that the PoC that remain on this site ... "mak(ing) it suck" because we are "fixated on race/racism" ... will agree: we do not seek "agreement"; only that others honestly seek to understand ... and that starts with stepping outside of one's self.

I commend you.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
153. I've actually seen that commercial again since, and paid more attention to it.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:58 PM
Jun 2014

And now that I was, I can see that they were deliberately trying to tie the female worker's actions/words to the tagline for the snack. So they were making her 'sweet and salty' - salty towards the suit coworker, sweet to the nerd. And even though she'd been up all night working on the presentation, she looked pretty fresh - I guess they didn't really want to have a bedraggled spokesperson.

At any rate, I approach sociological issues the same way I do any other science these days - the more I know, the more I know how much more there is of which I'm ignorant. And when there are things I simply cannot live, I have to learn from those who do live them.

America has kicked the race can down the road endlessly, and the longer we fail to act to fix the structural racism inherent in the systems around us, the more painful it will be for everyone when fixes finally do arrive. Indeed, I see most of the 'tea party'/gun rights crossover lunacy as the product of unaddressed and coddled racism.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
318. "Apparently the OP doesn't talk about racism as much as I thought" Not from my experience.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:24 AM
Jun 2014

Also, livluvgrow said, or implied absolutely nothing about "reverse" racism. Where did you even get this from?

canuckledragger

(1,632 posts)
50. Seems like YOU like to put words in people's mouths.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:00 AM
Jun 2014

Seems like YOU are the one having a problem when someone else points out obvious racism.

Seems like YOU have made up your mind to badger someone else's interest in a topic that makes YOU feel uneasy.

YOU act as if you know what this poster thinks.

Seems like YOU should just ignore the thread and move on with your life.

The rest of us want to have a discussion, if that's alright with YOU.

Could care less if it's not.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
105. Wow, you didnt even try and discuss the OP and the real and important issues therein
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:42 AM
Jun 2014

You just instantly went to attacking bravenak for bothering you with racial issues...

I wish you could understand that your response is the reason the thread and discussion is necessary.

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
274. Either there is an airline
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 01:02 PM
Jun 2014

named "plane racist" or you need to learn the basics of proper spelling and punctuation (you know, like also actually including the apostrophe in words like "can't"-not "cant" as you have it) before people will consider taking your whining views more seriously.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
295. The author of the OP
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:45 PM
Jun 2014

...is obsessed with attacking and accusing white people of being racist. Racial obsession of this type is itself a not so subtle form of racism.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
316. This is quite a problem indeed, Livluvgrow.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:17 AM
Jun 2014

I dunno about anyone else but you and I, but I too, suspect something is off about all this.....

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
327. Why is it important to you to DISCOURAGE threads about racism?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:56 AM
Jun 2014

How do you square that with participation on a progressive talk board?

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
340. I get along very well with Bravenak
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 04:48 PM
Jun 2014

and I'm white. She has never been anything but kind to me and an endless source of humor. Of course, I don't flip out at the discussion of racism. Nor do I take posts like this personally because I know they don't reflect how I think. I also know for a fact that Bravenak has a number of white friends. I'm guessing they don't take offense at the criticism of a right-winger like Bill Bennett either.

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
5. this article came through my facebook newsfeed via "the nation" moments after i saw this thread!
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:00 AM
Jun 2014

it will be interesting to read the all comments this generates all over the internets i am sure!

(what came through my newsfeed)
http://www.thenation.com/blog/180214/surprise-study-finds-people-dont-understand-how-racism-works

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
11. Yes. It will be very interesting.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:13 AM
Jun 2014

I can see that people think I am the Author of every article i post.

thucythucy

(7,986 posts)
106. I'd take that as a complement.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:42 AM
Jun 2014

They obviously think you're both brilliant AND prolific.

Great OP by the way. I always know when I click on one of yours that I'm in for an interesting and informative read.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
110. You are Black, therefore you are suppose to ask permission first so as not to upset
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:47 AM
Jun 2014

certain folks..i wish i was joking

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
111. I know.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:49 AM
Jun 2014

Thats why i just do it anyway. I am helping awareness. The other side needs to fight dirty and they will. We should be prepared.

 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
6. There are many
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:02 AM
Jun 2014

many successful black people. Your post is an insult to hard working successful black people.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
7. Yeah I am not on board with putting down
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:05 AM
Jun 2014

people for having success regardless of their background and upbringing.

Livluvgrow

(377 posts)
9. But you see
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:11 AM
Jun 2014

now you have went and made it about you. It is not about you it is the systemic problem perpetuated by the white majority. We cant go thinking for ourselves anymore we are defined by the white system and our community leaders wont step up and condemn the behavior.

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
19. What are you people talking about?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:47 AM
Jun 2014

I'm spritzing this thread with Stop It spray and setting out roach motels. Bay leaves are also very good at repelling insects.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
337. Hmm. That isn't my recollection
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 04:14 PM
Jun 2014

What was this?

224. To be blunt prvilege has nothing to do with the fact

that single mothers are on the rise in our country and children simply don't have two parents to help raise them. Also a single mother must work more hours to raise children compared to a household that has two incomes to pull from. The government is tight on money and more and more men (especially black men) are incarcerated for not paying child support whether they are they father or not (biological). Straight Black males have walked away from father hood because there are no role models to look to for inspiration anymore and the entertainment media portrays them as fools. Bill Cosby I rarely agree with but he has talked about how there have always been strong black role models to look to but instead of focusing on black achievement the focus has shifted now.

The black community has the same issues as the LDC of the world in that that birth control education is lacking and that having a lot of kids reduces your spending power simply put. This cycle is difficult to break but it starts at the school level or more specifically public education levels.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4953402



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024995511
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024831601
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024947948
http://www.democraticunderground.com/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024175836
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024243816

What you are not on board with is putting down white men, even the racist ones referenced in this OP. You have no trouble putting down the rest of us, as the above links demonstrate.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
13. I thank you for posting
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:22 AM
Jun 2014

I would like to read more articles on issues such as these and appreciate your persistence.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
16. Doesn't it ever!
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:31 AM
Jun 2014

For some, if you happen to post two articles regarding sexism or racism, you are branded as having inundated the forum with streams and streams of posts on that issue. They have absolutely no sense of proportion when it comes to issues they don't want to feel guilty about, but from which they know they benefit.

How can you have a good faith discussion with these people?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
17. You can't.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:36 AM
Jun 2014

I find it very amusing that posting four or five Black articles has people thinking that this is all i do.
I promised myself i would try to bring a different perspective because i think it was missing these articles because we only post them in AA. Why should we hide back there like being black is a crime?
I'll give up soon.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
20. Even if it was
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:48 AM
Jun 2014

It's none of their damn business what you choose to post about, nor how often.

Meh, forum busybodies.....

Keep up the good work, bravenak.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
23. I don't think some people read them anyway when they post.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:51 AM
Jun 2014

They think i write them and have different names everyday or something.
If reading it is so upsetting i don't see why they would want to stress themselves out by getting mad.

ananda

(28,783 posts)
29. I don't see it that way.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:08 AM
Jun 2014

The OP is not about successful Black people.

It's about white people who decide that racism is not an issue
because of successful Black people.

Huge difference.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
140. I read, then re-read ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 03:44 PM
Jun 2014

then recalled the first time I read this study ... I can't recall where the OP or the study was insulting to successful Black folks. In fact, I don't recall where the study or OP had anything to do with Black folks, at all!

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
18. Stop dividing DU with posts that point out racism.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:46 AM
Jun 2014

What are you trying to do, call every white person on DU a racist?

Hell there are a lot of us here and we aren't racists. Why do we need to read about this? We are on your side, can't you see? Just STOP fucking talking about it!

Don't you have a special forum where you can talk about this crap? Why do we have to read about it. I'm gonna make a poll and ask all of DU if they think these very divisive topics, that we agree with you on btw, should be kept off the main forum and in your own little cliquey group.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
21. I know, right?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:49 AM
Jun 2014

I am such an ass for saying things. I guess this is what happens when you post sexism articles. Everyone thinks that's all you do, all day everyday. Wow.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
22. Yeah join the club of the perpetually accused of dividing the always undivided DU.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:51 AM
Jun 2014

The excuses and the reasons for objections are completely transparent, if you ask me.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
24. Well i should stick to the 'real' issues that they care about.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:53 AM
Jun 2014

Not gonna do it, it just makes me think they need to read more. I shall start posting hispanic articles too, now.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
26. Those are the only ones worthy of discussion I suppose.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:01 AM
Jun 2014

If you don't believe that class is the only issue that black persons and women and LGBT face, well then, you are here to do nothing but divide the completely undivided DU.

We all agree 100% on the issues facing people on DU, don't you know?! Introducing these tangential arguments are meant to do nothing but divide us absolutely undivided people here on DU who believe if class issues were resolved, racism, sexism and all bigotry would automatically cease to exist.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
33. I wish that were the case, but it ain't.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:15 AM
Jun 2014

They know that deep inside but it's hard to admit that many have it harder than you for no reason.
I think some feel like it diminishes their accomplishments.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
141. LOL ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 03:55 PM
Jun 2014
Introducing these tangential arguments are meant to do nothing but divide us absolutely undivided people here on DU who believe if class issues were resolved, racism, sexism and all bigotry would automatically cease to exist. We promise ... you just have to trust us.


This reminds me so much of the "History of race relations" cartoon that was posted, where the white guy climbs on the Black person's back, onto his shoulder and up onto the ledger, only to refuse to give the Black guy a hand up because it wouldn't be fair.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
253. Lol, that is funny.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:49 AM
Jun 2014

They actually think DU was all solidarity, a virtual echo chamber of perfection, until all us womens, gays, and AAs showed up and started posting about our issues.

Yeah, they are transparent and not fooling anyone. I, for one, appreciate the posts about these issues. I learn every time I read them.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
25. Study abstract
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:00 AM
Jun 2014
J Pers Soc Psychol. 2014 Mar;106(3):359-79. doi: 10.1037/a0035707.
If he can do it, so can they: exposure to counterstereotypically successful exemplars prompts automatic inferences.
Critcher CR1, Risen JL2.

Abstract

After incidental exposure to Blacks who succeeded in counterstereotypical domains (e.g., Brown University President Ruth Simmons, Nobel Laureate Toni Morrison), participants drew an automatic inference that race was not a success-inhibiting factor in modern society. Of note, participants' automatic inferences were not simply guided by their explicit reasoning (i.e., their beliefs about what these exemplars signify about the state of race relations).
Studies 1-3 demonstrated the basic automatic inference effect and provided evidence that such effects unfolded automatically, without intention or awareness.
Study 4 replicated the effect in non-race-related domains. Subsequent studies examined what features of exemplars (Studies 5 and 6) and inference makers (Studies 7 and 8) prompt automatic inferences.
Study 5 suggested that counterstereotypically successful exemplars prompt racism-denying inferences because they signal what is possible, even if not typical.
Study 6 demonstrated that when these exemplars succeed in a stereotypical domain (e.g., Blacks in athletics), similar automatic inferences are not drawn. Those most likely to draw automatic inferences are people predisposed to approach the world with inferential thinking: participants dispositionally high in need for cognition (Study 7) or experimentally primed to think inferentially (Study 8).


(PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2014 APA, all rights reserved).

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
43. Not that I doubt the study, but where are the numbers?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:54 AM
Jun 2014

I see inferences and suggestions, I don't see data.

caraher

(6,276 posts)
77. Here's a no-paywall link to the study
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:46 AM
Jun 2014

You can see numbers to your heart's content. There are 8 separate experiments detailed along with the details of their statistical analyses...

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
222. Did you read it? I have a real problem with a study that states from the start what
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:07 PM
Jun 2014

result they want, and fashions the study to prove it. I have a lot of problems with the "automatic response" they keep harping on. And inferences. Not that I doubt that there are people who do exhibit such attitudes, but I know plenty who don't have this "automatic response".

caraher

(6,276 posts)
235. I think you're not following how papers are written or the implications of the results
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:54 PM
Jun 2014

I think you're suggesting that, because the paper begins with some discussion of their basic prediction, they have illegitimately cooked up some half-baked experiments to lend a flimsy support to a pre-ordained conclusion. It's certainly possible there are significant problems with their study design, or the relationship between their observations and their conclusions. But whatever might be wrong is at least not obviously wrong, not to me but more importantly not to the referees engaged by the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. The fact that they set the stage by outlining some motivations for the work is not in itself some kind of red flag, as you seem to suggest.

The fact that you "know plenty who don't have this "automatic response"" in no way conflicts with their results. Their claim is not that every individual is afflicted by this particular "automatic response;" rather, what they contend is that the response is sufficiently powerful and common that they can detect it in their study population (and by implication, that it is likely common in the population at large). Just as the fact that we both know "plenty" of minorities who have been remarkably successful does not imply racism is no barrier to success, so to your knowing "plenty" of people who (in your judgment) do not exhibit the posited "automatic response" does not deny that it may be present in a significant number of people.

In any case, your objection has shifted - I posted the link in reply to your challenge regarding numbers, and now that you have them your concern is different.

And I should add that I don't have any strongly-held belief about the correctness of their hypothesis. It strikes me as plausible, and as the kind of plausible idea that could quite easily prove not to pan out. The real test will come from researchers who might be skeptical, as they will be more creative in devising experiments that might expose any real gaps in their reasoning. (In science, and especially social science, the easiest person to fool is yourself!)

And in answer to your question, I read much of it and skimmed the rest. I don't think I'd profit from a reading more detailed than that unless I studied statistics for social science more! Did you read it?

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
344. Yes I did read it. And yes they clearly state that they keep moving the goal post to accommodate
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:57 PM
Jun 2014

their intended outcome. That is to say, they formulated the study to conform to a predicted outcome. Read it.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
254. That is the way you are characterizing it.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:53 AM
Jun 2014

Science experiments start with a hypothesis, then studies and tests are done to see if the hypothesis turns out to be true or not.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
343. No it's not the way I am characterizing it. I have 2 medical degrees
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:51 PM
Jun 2014

and am well aware of what constitutes a study, not an experiment, and if you read the study, it clearly states that they do exactly that.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
144. That's the abstract ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 03:57 PM
Jun 2014

abstracts, typically, don't include numbers ... just methodology summary and a summary of findings.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
27. Donald Sterling proved that racism still exists.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:05 AM
Jun 2014

Even in a world where my 8 year old daughter has no memory of the US having a white president.

But the Sterling incident also showed that society does not tolerate racism any more.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
32. We don't tolerate vulgar racism.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:13 AM
Jun 2014

The quiet racism is perfectly acceptable, like not wanting to live in a neighborhood where you are not the majority.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
45. There will always be SOME racists in every country.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:55 AM
Jun 2014

The point is to make them a tiny minority as opposed to the ruling majority. In that case, we ARE there.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
70. Ours is loud
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:25 AM
Jun 2014

They have deep pockets.

They own everything from Amway to Dixie Cups - thank God one of them gave up his private army.

They thrive on inflicting pain on others. They have an entire news station dedicated to getting their information out there to other people raised on Rushdooney's masochistic beliefs.

They own the House of Representatives and several members of the Supreme Court. One does their fetching and stepping for them on a regular basis.

Or am I not allowed to point that 'one' out?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
145. Or, assuming that that PoC ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 04:00 PM
Jun 2014

took "your" job/college admission slot, because ... well ... you are qualified.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
39. Heh.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jun 2014

And now he's fighting his ouster, with a plan to fig up 'dirt' on enough other team owners to make it impossible without forcing half the league to be sold out from under other owners.

I'd suspected when Cuban made his weaselly semi-defense of the idea of not ousting Sterling that he was probably worried about somebody coming out with something he did that was just as bad.

It would not shock me in the least to find out that many of the "owners" have said similar things.

(Oh, and Paula Deen is staging a 'comeback', with "Paula Deen Ventures', an online pay 'network'. Have some butter with your racism, y'all!)

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
92. Society does tolerate racism and sexism too much. Racism doesn't have to rise to the level of the N
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:10 AM
Jun 2014

... Word for it to be racism but for too much it's the litmus for US society.

No n word...

No racism

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
146. Just like ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 04:05 PM
Jun 2014

No battered, bruised and bloodied, prudently dressed (before the dress was torn off), non-drinking, women that had never seen the guy before ... No rape.

ETA: funny how much the subjects have in common.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
348. Not publicly and/or overtly.
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:14 PM
Jun 2014

Under the radar and/or covertly, it still exists and it is still a major problem for African American people. That is what AAs are trying to explain to the rest of us, if we'll listen.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
40. What a bad headline, an untrue one at that.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:49 AM
Jun 2014

"White People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over". If someone wrote that about blacks, I am pretty sure you would be screaming racism. That is racist on your part. It lowers the level of the discussion, it is just not true that "white people" think that, some white people, yes. I have no respect for your continual baiting.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
48. Don't care who wrote it. And she should be criticized as well.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:58 AM
Jun 2014

Funny that you do not respond to the points I made but hide behind the "I did not write it". That some journalist wants to flame-bait is nothing new.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
73. I am not the one posting bait. And that you try to pull the emotional card is classic.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:32 AM
Jun 2014

Classic passive-aggressive.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
44. It's not bravenak's headline - blame it on those rascals at Huffpo!
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:55 AM
Jun 2014

Bear with me - because you've made an excellent point here. It might not be the one you intended - but it's a really good point.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/racism-success-study_n_5474419.html

As posted over there:


White People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over


Email rebecca.hiscott@huffingtonpost.com - she's the caucasian woman that wrote the article for their business section and either she or her editor(s) gave the headline to the article.

Not bravenak.

Now that said - the email should probably read: Dear Ms. Hiscott - stop race baiting. If a white person - which you are - wrote something like that about blacks . . .


Sorry - my intent is not snark - but your brought up a REALLY GOOD POINT :highfive: with your post. Why DID a white woman get away with this article at Huffpo? In their business section to boot?

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
46. Because it makes her/them "feel" good about how progressive they are.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:57 AM
Jun 2014

They can sit around and hand wring and tsk tsk about how terrible things are.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
49. Or she isn't really a Progressive
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:00 AM
Jun 2014

She's out there doing the bidding of someone in Corporate America with really deep pockets who needs this headline out there.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
319. That may be true, unfortunately.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:26 AM
Jun 2014

Hell, I'll have to admit I was guilty of some of that myself a while back(long before I joined DU, though).

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
52. Well that is a tough one, no let me think. Oh yeah, increased traffic.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:02 AM
Jun 2014

Apparently thinks any publicity is good.And has little journalistic integrity. Bravenak reposted as what I refer to flame-bait. So by your logic she is race baiting.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
57. No she's not
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:09 AM
Jun 2014

She's trying to show you what those people are.



Now imagine you are a successful black woman and you see that (I am that) . . .

I don't go to the business section of any 'so-called news' site to read that. I'm far more interested in reading how the hedgies are taking a blood bath lately!

What am I supposed to think?

What should bravenak think?

Should we just shut the fuck up and not point out what's being bandied about out there?

It's there.

We live it EVERY single DAY. I know that's a hard concept for liberals/progressives because it's not how liberals/progressives think. It's just not.

Race baiting is darkening President Obama's face for magazine covers. That's to gin those folks on the right up. It's to give them a new reason to hate and to fear. And well - to dismiss.

Race baiting is not repeating race baiting in the so-called Huffington Post news.

It's not the same.

Can I ask you a question - and it's serious.

Would you prefer that the African American members here no longer post anything about race? Because I'm one of them and I'm beginning to think it would be for the best since it gets everyone so emotional and worked up. It's not cool in an election year.

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
76. Really?? A post is made with a headline that smells like bait,
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:43 AM
Jun 2014

looks like bait, and is irresponsible and you can not respond to that issue, but now resort to such extremes as suggesting you don't post anymore? I am not emotional. I am tired of posts that don't try. I am tired of posts that lower the bar. I am tired of people who post headlines that are untrue blanket assertions, even if it a repost.
So your back against the wall hyperbole is looking like nothing but a good offense. Have a nice day.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
82. Not it's not
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:55 AM
Jun 2014

You kept pushing her to responds to your original post on this thread.

looks like bait, and is irresponsible and you can not respond to that issue
I just did that? I don't know what you want from me?

Is it absolute utter agreement? Or are we having a discussion?



It's not this - but now resort to such extremes as suggesting you don't post anymore

It's not extreme - I'm sorry but it's not.


Question - Do you want us to win the midterms? Do you want solidarity?


I'm suggesting that perhaps these aren't the types of discussions that lead to solidarity.

There has been a lot of emotion around these types of topics at DU. Perhaps you haven't seen that?

But then you suggest - that the OP lowered the bar?


I hate to say this - but it's reality.

This is what black America is bombarded with everyday. It's near and dear to us - and we discuss it. . . I discuss it with my husband and he's a middle aged white immigrant. It doesn't work him up or offend him - because he kind of looks at the world through my eyes and I look at it through his.

IF the subject line lowers the bar - and it's what is 'out there' - outside of DU - and we know the 'others' are reading it - I don't understand how it lowers the bar to quote an article that Bennett of all people is quoted in.

He's one of the worst of the worst offenders in America.

Can we agree on that? How he race baits? How he plays to the loud and vocal right's lowest and most base 'fears' and desires? How that has been his agenda?

Or should we just not discuss it at all?

Because truthfully I'm MORE THAN willing to take one for Team Left if it means every single person here gets out and votes and canvasses and makes calls and takes people to the polls this November.

I am absolutely suggesting we squash the discussion to make that happen. We'll pick up the ball again after the election.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
84. Adding she 'bolded' the word Conservative in the op
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:00 AM
Jun 2014

Go back and take another read of it. I picked up on it in a non-bold format - but hopefully that will help you to see what she's sharing here.

Also - dig into what the Koch brother's are up to with the UNCF. Nothing they do is sweet and innocent. Not one single thing. Very convenient timing for a bunch of new voters. . .

randys1

(16,286 posts)
113. Bait? where is the cliche thread, i wanna add "bait"
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:54 AM
Jun 2014

My god, so you have named any discussion of race "bait" or "baiting" so the discussion is shut down, do you understand that??????

WCLinolVir

(951 posts)
345. I'm sorry , bait and switch, or in this case bait and denial.
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:17 AM
Jun 2014

No, I have not named any discussion of race as bait. But more hyperbole. Can't get enough of the over the top hyperbole when you point out that the article is misleading, and if it were a blanket assumption about any other race, would constitute racism. And instead of actually responding to criticism of the post, the poster actually tries the old you're emotional bs.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
42. Because before Obama, no black person had EVER become a success? Jeeze.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:54 AM
Jun 2014

What a pantload. Blacks have been elected to state and national office in majority white districts for years. Not to mention the countless number of successful black business men and women. I'm not even factoring in any kind of athlete or entertainer either.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
53. True - but it set white people on the Right off
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:03 AM
Jun 2014

Didn't it?

Seriously- you haven't see the rise in their vitriol since 2007?

You SERIOUSLY haven't seen what those people are?

Please say it ain't so.


 

7962

(11,841 posts)
102. But I heard the same shit after Clinton won; Socialism was coming! The end of our country! etc
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:33 AM
Jun 2014

They even impeached him. If Hillary had won in '08, it'd be the same thing. Sure there are racists out there, but of all the people I know who are against obama, all were just as strung out about Clinton. Its a "D" thing more than a black thing.
The screamers just get all the press.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
114. I don't know - think there is one difference
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:57 AM
Jun 2014

Remember the 'lyin African'?
The birth certificate?
The MuslimSocialFascist?

One thing is different between Clinton and Obama - 9/11. Which opened the door for their hatred towards ALL brown people.

What's most significant - those of us born after the civil rights movement -

Ask us how our parents were/are shocked that we'd ever have to live through this? What they lived through? I know my dad was. And he was the black guy that voted for Nixon in 1968. He never thought he'd see the vitriol again.

He also expressed to me two days before he died that the only things he regretted missing was my wedding (I got married 6 months after he passed) and the Clintons totally leaving politics. He was waiting for the day Clinton punched Newt in the mouth for calling his wife a bitch. Love him or hate him - that was my dad!

As for the Nixon thing - that was par for the course - Affluent southern black that was a Military Officer with a college education who came from a long line of Southern Republicans. I know his dad (born and raised and lived except for his years at Morehouse) first crossed over to vote D in 1964.

This Republican party would never ever want my grandfather to vote for them. Never in a million years. They hate poor blacks - they hate handed down wealth blacks even more. Because we are the perfect example of folks who have intergenerational wealth that came in SPITE of America not accepting our ancestors as full citizens - who can see how they - the Republican Party - they now don't accept us as full citizens.


I know you don't want to believe that and I accept that - but I see harsh vitriolic racists - and they live and breath and die in the Republican Party. Wake up and smell the enemy.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
118. In 1994 - another thought
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:10 AM
Jun 2014

That's not what I heard - about socialism -

I heard that young black women were destroying America from within and had to be stopped. Nothing got me out in the streets of Niagara Falls (I was at University at that time) to GOTV than that.

Remember the Welfare Queen meme? How they got rid of welfare and replaced it with SNAP and TANF?

You should should look up what Pat Buchanan and Newt have written and said about how that sweep happened.

Then look up who she 'The Welfare Queen' USED to be. She was Mammy.

In one generation we had gone from the sweetheart who raised 'them' to the most evil woman on the planet.

It's chilling - these people are absolutely terrifying - if you have lived in their cross hairs. They've had the gun pointed at me since I was three.

I know you don't want to see it -

But it's the truth and reality.

You do agree Republicans hate black women's guts - don't you? And it's not just becuase of Obama - or Clinton. Goldwater started it. And it's why they take such sick glee in painting our First Lady as a Chimp.

They have to dehumanize us - to well -dehumanize us.

So glad you are on my side though!

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
47. Uh - William Bennett - conservative pundit . . .
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:58 AM
Jun 2014
Bennett, who is white, suggested that if Barack Obama could become president, so could any black man. Implicit in the argument was that systemic racial discrimination was no longer keeping black men and women from success.


I think there are more layers to that. I also think that if First Lady Obama wasn't who she is - a certain segment of women in America might have gone hard for Hillary.

There's 'that'. It's out there brave.
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
54. It's bad because of who posted it.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:04 AM
Jun 2014

What an upsetting headline!! I don't like to change the headlines.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
59. No - I think
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:12 AM
Jun 2014

And I'm hoping I'm having an honest and respectful discussion upthread -


I think it's just too much for the community.

Perhaps it would be best if we asked Skinner and Co. to disband the African American group until after the midterms and supress all discussions pertaining to black Americans until Mid November.

My greatest fear is someone reads something you or me or a few others have written - and recall it on election day.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
122. I fear whiny progressives not voting cuz a Black person hurt their feelings too
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:27 AM
Jun 2014

Hell, I fear being banned for simply calling progressives whiny, even if I am not saying it to one in particular which I would never do...

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
333. Whiny progressives voted in 2010...
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 01:46 PM
Jun 2014

like they do in all midterms.

Why didn't blacks and Latinos turn out? The Swarm insists it's because of some obscure blogger trashing Obama, but surely this voting bloc isn't that... malleable? We're told over and over that Obama needs a Democratic Congress to advance his "progressive" agenda, did they not understand this? And which is it? Progressive good, or progressive bad?

Will blacks and Latinos turnout in November? What are you doing to get them registered, and will you get them to the polls?

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
131. With regard to what Bennett said, I believe Colin Powell would've won in 2K
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 01:51 PM
Jun 2014

had he run. He was VERY popular at that time and I think he would have waxed Bush. All this was before he was lied to and used by Cheney.
And regarding what you said in an earlier post about your dad wanting to live long enough to see the Clintons out of politics.......I dont know how old he was when he died, but I think we still have a ways to go before that happens!!

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
132. The Family, Dobson, Devos, etc. etc.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 02:07 PM
Jun 2014

That was never going to happen - i.e. Powell. Simply no support from the base.

Did you know there was serious talk of him in 1996? And no go - because he wouldn't play the Dominionist Games. Even then - Dole - who is now probably considered a Democrat/Liberal by the party base had to fight to get that nomination.

They were put on watch in 1992 by Buchanan when Erik Prince split from his sister Betsy Devos on who he would support. It was young folks - people in my age group . . . on the other side of the aisle. Get in line with this extreme beliefs or we split.

It's funny - those folks are now all at the helm in that party in terms of financing their campaigns. The Gen Xers and late Boomers. . .

Dad was 70 (just turned it) in August 2011 - but he was of the mindset that old guys like him needed to get out of our way. He almost sounded like Poitier in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner when he would start ranting and raving about how we need to look to younger people to solve our problems. That was ONE reason he liked Obama - even though he really felt it should have been someone like Harold Ford who he was more politically aligned with. Obama represented youth and energy. Anyway in his mind - he would have liked to have seen that(Clinton whale on Newt) . You never took anyone speaking about any woman that way. He had zero tolerance for that bullshit!


The dominionists had taken over by the 1996 election and part of the key appeal of Bush (why he beat McCain) was his "I'm a fuck up but asked Jesus to forgive me and I'm born again" beliefs. They like that - the Dominionists.

If only Powell had played their little Christian Dominionist Games. Perhaps? But he never could have beat Clinton in 1996. No way. No how. That wasn't happening. Sorry - but it wasn't.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
58. Recommend. There is no question when Bennet, and I believe he represents the opportunistic
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:10 AM
Jun 2014

view, that Obama's achievements translated to, see..we're done! Nice slimy way to avoid
so many persistent issues regarding racism in the US.

Sad really..but not surprising and he is absolutely not alone.

liberal N proud

(60,302 posts)
64. It's not the color of your skin but rather ignorance that makes that claim
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:18 AM
Jun 2014

Not all white people think like that, but ignorant people think like that.

rustbeltvoice

(427 posts)
68. stop the denial and quibbling
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:23 AM
Jun 2014

It is true. People do not want to be reminded about it. And the article was a mild presentation on the premise, it did not veer into an extreme accusation, or into partisan terminology. I don't know the history of argument on this topic on Democratic Underground, but the blow back seems overdone.

Furthermore, the point exists and existed about other groups. After John Kennedy was elected president, people said there was no more prejudice against Catholics in the US, and would anger over suggestion that there was. Because a barrier has been broken, or particular exceptions have broken the general rule, the premise is not destroyed; but there are now precedents where that rule has been broken, and may lead to its further decay.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
72. I also did not find the article to be extreme.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:26 AM
Jun 2014

The headline is an attention grabber, but i think they did that on purpose.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
78. Great article!
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:48 AM
Jun 2014

I can remember all the articles after Obama's election on how we're living in a new 'post-racial society' and thinking it was a bunch of bs.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
81. I knew it was bull too.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:54 AM
Jun 2014

As we can see they hated on him the whole time. I remember the 'terrorist fist jab' thing like it was yesterday.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
79. I don't know why people are complaining about this
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:50 AM
Jun 2014

Unless it's that, again, the word "some" would be necessary. (roll eyes)

But we see this assertation here. "Beyonce (or Oprah or whoever) has a lot of money THEREFORE . . . "

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
80. I bolded conservative.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jun 2014

Conservative, like that so they would know. But you're right, we see it here all the time.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
83. That was smart
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:58 AM
Jun 2014

They need to see/read WHO is saying it.

The real discussion should be - Bennett is at it again. He's pushing his nonsense and this meme. And everyone on the Left needs to be aware that this asshat is out there spouting nonsense again.

But if they don't want to acknowledge it - perhaps it's not important to them to know what our opposition is up to.

For me - I want to know everything they are up to. Everything.


It helps with offense - which is always the best defense.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
85. I had promised to make sure it said conservative in the future.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:02 AM
Jun 2014

Now i will just start bolding key words.

Baitball Blogger

(46,576 posts)
87. Yup.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:02 AM
Jun 2014

And, I'm afraid, it's not a predilection limited to white people.

I was stunned when I heard Morgan Freeman make similar comments. Because he made it through, he is proof that systemic racism does not exist.

So, he's become a little darling of all the right-wing bloggers. He thinks he's proof that income inequality doesn't exist. Race does not affect income. He thinks Black History month is ridiculous. I can go on and on.

There are no words, but it is bound to happen for those who have rare talents that are marketable. I just don't understand how he can portray characters who have had serious obstacles thrown in their faces, and be this obtuse in his real life.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
271. Succesful black men at their apex
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:08 AM
Jun 2014

you loathe? Really? Freeman and Cosby are able see clearly what many miss and that is self empowerment is of utmost importance.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
292. You started this thread
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:27 PM
Jun 2014

the thread title and article is about race. And the discussions is about race.

I will continue to discuss what is relevant to the thread. If you don't want a discussion then maybe the internet is not for you.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
89. Ahh I read about those comments
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:04 AM
Jun 2014

At another site - mostly young black women under the age of 30 over there.

He's been relegated to the "New Black" heap along with Beyonce, Kanye, Wesley Snipes, - oh I could go on and on and on.

And now with Bennett's remarks - I finally understand what those young women mean by 'New Black' - those folks who believe Bennett (think Allen West) is absolutely correct.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
95. Tina Turner too
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:15 AM
Jun 2014

They have an interesting thread over there about her.

But not Ruby Dee or Kerry Washington. Hmmm . . .

treestar

(82,383 posts)
97. I don't.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:17 AM
Jun 2014

I thought it would be a big deal that the President was black. But no, the president simply got judged more harshly than a whet President would. It goes all the way to the top and it's far from over. At least it is no longer legal in most cases to discriminate, but when it comes to evaluating performance, etc. the black person still has to do five times as much to get one fifth the credit. Look at them making a drama of this ordinary POW exchange.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
99. Even John McCain forgot that he was an exchange.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:22 AM
Jun 2014

Didn't we exchange pow's for him? Or am i crazy and it was someone else?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
148. Yes. And then he has the gall
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 04:08 PM
Jun 2014

or the idiocy to come out and criticize the President (while guilty of being black) for something of which any white President could do the same thing and it would be OK.

I'm convinced the people who don't like Obama's handling of that would, had he handed it the way they now claim he should have, say the same exact thing and he should have handled it the way he is now.

I sometimes think it will only be gone when the nightmare of the white supremacists happens. There is more and more intermarriage and white genes are recessive. The majority of the world population will that is nonwhite will get bigger and bigger. I say this as a white, it seems like white people refuse to let go of it. Maybe it's the older generation still - of which McCain is a part, and it will be better in the next couple of generations.

IronLionZion

(45,264 posts)
103. Neil DeGrasse Tyson had a very interesting point
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:40 AM
Jun 2014

I don't have the clip handy but he was sharing how many people in his life growing up tried to discourage him from science. So many told him to try something "blacker" (paraphrasing) which included many teachers, family, and other black people. He said how many kids would have heard that and got discouraged and believed it? A minority has to fly to get where a white person can walk to.

I've noticed so many white people, especially white liberals, tell their children to aim high, you can do anything you put your mind to, go after what you want, etc. And that is quite the opposite in other cultures.

Even now in my career "my people" (Indian) are really not morally supportive much and it can be very discouraging and limiting. It sucks that some cultures are self-limiting to pigeon hole their people into a few specific fields while white people can do anything with no limits.

I know this was a bit off topic, but I think about it a lot.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
108. I think about it too.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:45 AM
Jun 2014

People kept trying to get me to be a CNA. Um, no. I hate germs and get paranoid. They even told me that lots of black women do it and i was made for it. No. I was not. I am better with Administrative tasks and accounting.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
151. I had a conversation along those lines recently
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 04:44 PM
Jun 2014

I have a friend who is worried about her grandson because he is trying to pursue a career as a Rap musician. We agreed that when young Black men search for success, so many see their opportunities for greatness to be limited to entertainment and athletics.

Ben Carson and Herman Cain hold themselves up as an exception do to their considerable personal talents. At the same time spouting the white elitist talking points about other Blacks.

Why don't young Black men get the impression that they can achieve greatness without fame? Architecture, engineering, various scientific fields don't seem to be a part of what they see as successful careers regardless of their talents and interests. Where are the "colorblind" mentors that are available to white men and women?

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
320. There is some truth to that.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:31 AM
Jun 2014

There is indeed a problem with damage to culture as well as racism: even if all the racism were to magically disappear overnight(which it sadly won't ever totally do), the cultural residue would require decades of repair.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
116. I remember
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:03 AM
Jun 2014

the night Obama was elected how many people said as much - that racism was on its way out.

Boy was that ever not true. We found out just how deep the racism is (although maybe it was just me who was incredibly naïve...I never believed racism was over because of Barack Obama, but I did think it was a much bigger step forward than it turned out to be...I'm certain no black person was as naïve as I was...plus being Canadian, I didn't understand how much racism permeated American society. I've been really shocked at what has happened in the last 6 years).

I've actually seen this conversation play out in my own family. My SIL is half black, and grew up in a predominantly white town. She is definitely considered 'successful'. The only other black kid in her school is a famous NHL hockey player. People in my family have pointed out how that because of the success of these 2 people, somehow it means racism doesn't exist here in Canada. I'm like, really??

I think, if Hillary is elected, we will find the same sentiment that women have somehow 'made it'. It's odd how people think if one person has 'made it' then everyone has. We even see that dynamic with poverty - one person who grew up poor becomes a billionaire and somehow it's expected that everyone has that same chance. It's such crap.

Anyway, good article.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
117. Thank you.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:07 AM
Jun 2014

Great insight, i don't know much about racism in Canada, i just assumed it was like here in AK. Natives Alaskans seem to take more of the heat up here and the stereotypes are out of control.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
138. That's very much like here
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jun 2014

Yes, a lot of stereotypes but it's definitely improved since I was a kid, noticeably so. I think it's because they teach tolerance and multiculturalism in the schools now. Unfortunately, Canadian aboriginals take most of the heat here too. So yeah, it's probably pretty similar overall. There IS s a large rural/urban divide. I live in a suburb that is not very diverse, but I'm a few minutes drive away from a major city where, if I go to the mall, I am the minority. I've lived in more northern communities that either mostly aboriginal, or were totally white. There, the racism is far more pronounced than where I currently live.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
119. I can't figure out what the "controversary" or disagreement is with this article .....?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:13 AM
Jun 2014

If we are to be honest we have all heard this very sentiment expressed .... be it from friends, acquaintances, co-workers, the news media, political pundits ... I am at a loss as to why some are disputing the authenticity of this thought thread in our society.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
124. Institutional and societal racism, white on Black, is rampant in America today
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:31 AM
Jun 2014

We have a political party based on racism, teaparty and republicans.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
128. I'd just like to take a moment to say Bill Bennet is a racist, homophobic hypocrite
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 12:18 PM
Jun 2014

and that this is a long, long established fact. Here is Bennett from 2005, in case anyone has forgotten: "I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you cold abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down...that would be an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky."

In 1997 he went around saying this: "Homosexuality takes 30 years off your life."

He is a reprehensible person. I am always sad to see he is still quoted anywhere, by anyone, about anything.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
133. For a Black person to reach the higher
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 02:53 PM
Jun 2014

echelons of in terms of riches, they have to be exceptionally talented and skillful at whatever it is they are doing because the range of critique they are going to experience is much greater should they under-perform.

These people would be the exceptions not only as Black people, but as people in general.

Good article and interesting study.

 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
152. If racism is holding black people from success,
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 06:45 PM
Jun 2014

can someone please explain to me how Don Thompson became CEO of a company as huge as McDonalds? Be specific.

 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
159. So you can't
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:17 PM
Jun 2014

honestly answer the question? Why not? How do you think Don Thompson got to be CEO of McDonalds? Simple honest question.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
165. One black persons success does not mean racism is over.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:53 PM
Jun 2014

It is the point of the piece and you should read it again because you missed the point very hard.

 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
172. Are you suggesting that only one black person has been successful?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:17 PM
Jun 2014

Still no one willing to answer the question? It's a really simple question.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
176. I am suggesting that is harder if you are Black.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:25 PM
Jun 2014

And that there are systemic racial discrimination manifesting it's self in lower wages, police harrasment, and that thise issues need to be resolved to reach parity. Why should Blacks continue to liv in a Never ending depression, just because some blacks got rich.

You are making no sense to me at all with this demonstration of the op.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
189. This is exactly what the article described
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:04 PM
Jun 2014

I opted not to engage in conversation in any meaningful way with that poster, because in this day and age, one would need to actually choose to be ignorant (willful ignorance) in order to not see the point the author was making ... or hold beliefs and opinions that I find unworthy of my energy.

Hiram Rhodes Revels (a black man) was elected to the US senate (Mississippi) in 1870, using the logic implied by this sub-thread, that obviously means that racism ended in Mississippi in 1870 ... which is, of course, as ridiculous as citing the successes of a few black Americans (some extraordinary successes) as evidence of the end of racism in the US.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
190. I think that most people who play this game know exactly what they are doing.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:06 PM
Jun 2014

And now i just found out we don't need to worry about that because of Ray Kurzweil.

Response to etherealtruth (Reply #189)

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
166. LOL, that you think that raising a question about an anomaly like Thompson proves anything....
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:55 PM
Jun 2014

Only proves the OP is correct about "some" Duers too.
Just WOW.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
204. He's an anomaly because his success counters the mountains of statistical data...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:31 PM
Jun 2014

Demonstrating a number of things all of which constitutes a body of evidence that there is clear, systemic racism present in the economic and legal machine of this country.

Look at the prevalence of economic hardship among persons of color. Look at the geographical distribution of persons of color among specific communities which are renowned for being economic and criminal wastelands.

Also, look at what happens to persons of color in job and school interviews when all other factors are accounted for. They are overlooked and discarded at rates not even remotely experienced by the white community.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
182. Racism has held many black people from success ...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:37 PM
Jun 2014

not all, but many. Don Thompson's success doesn't change what happens to that many.

Racism created the segregated poor neighborhoods with inadequate schools that prevents many black kids from getting the necessary education and skills to be successful. This racism was official US policy until the late '60s. We are living with the historical legacy of that, as poverty tends to repeat itself, and those poor inner city neighborhoods are still segregated.

Don Thompson's grandmother got him out of that poor Chicago neighborhood and moved him to Indianapolis. From his bio it is suggested she was a powerful positive influence in his life, but the details of how she did it are not there. She guided his life all the way through Purdue and a special engineeriing program for minorities. Not all people have role models like this, particularly among stressed families in poor circumstances.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-23/site/ct-biz-0323-harris-confidential-20120323_1_cabrini-green-olivet-community-center-don-thompson

 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
203. Poverty isn't exclusive to blacks.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:29 PM
Jun 2014

Of the 46 million people living in poverty in America in 2010, the U.S. census revealed that 31 million were white. Ten million were black. Of the 49 million people without health insurance coverage, 37 million were white; 8 million were African-American. The face of poverty in America is overwhelmingly white, but as a 2009 study on children in poverty explained, the white American poor, especially those in rural areas, are forgotten.
Mr. Thompson rose above it despite the obstacles. Very few people have role models like Mr. Thompsons grandmother black or white.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
205. Poverty created by racism is exclusive to minorities in the US.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:33 PM
Jun 2014
Mr. Thompson rose above it despite the obstacles. Very few people have role models like Mr. Thompsons grandmother black or white.


and few people without role models escape poverty. There is no one to show them how to do it.

What was your point?

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
208. The poster you are responding to doesn't understand proportionality.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:38 PM
Jun 2014

Which is why they use absolute figures rather than proportional ones.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
213. Where is my role model? Show me.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:52 PM
Jun 2014

What in the world are you talking about? What is your point, anyway?

It is not a question of holding ourselves back. It is a question of being held back by horrible life circumstances and racist discrimination that created those circumstances.

Since you like to misrepresent poverty in this country, here are the percentages of poverty in different racial/ethnic populations, which displays the heritage of racism:

The poverty rate for all persons masks considerable variation between racial/ethnic subgroups. Poverty rates for blacks and Hispanics greatly exceed the national average. In 2010, 27.4 percent of blacks and 26.6 percent of Hispanics were poor, compared to 9.9 percent of non-Hispanic whites and 12.1 percent of Asians.

Poverty rates are highest for families headed by single women, particularly if they are black or Hispanic. In 2010, 31.6 percent of households headed by single women were poor, while 15.8 percent of households headed by single men and 6.2 percent of married-couple households lived in poverty.


http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/
 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
217. Imagine if
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:58 PM
Jun 2014

Mr. Thompson had that attitude. I wish I had Mr. Thompson's mindset. I too might be successful.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
220. It isn't just mindset. It is also skills and education, and access to that education.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:01 PM
Jun 2014

One doesn't develop either mindset or skills if one does not see possibility, and is only surrounded by failure and unhappiness.

Response to kwassa (Reply #220)

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
206. Which amounts to a proportion of black Americans in poverty at TWICE the rate of white Americans.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:35 PM
Jun 2014

Twice the rate.

And plenty of evidence demonstrates as much as three times the rate. Three fucking times. Can you even conceive the significance of that?

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
219. No, you don't. You don't understand. But you think you do.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:01 PM
Jun 2014

Which makes the idiocy of your rhetoric all the more dangerous.

No one here is denying that it is possible for a person of color to succeed. What we are saying, and what systemic racism dictates, is that the system is stacked against persons of color so that the amount of work required to succeed is excessive or extreme. And, going further, that this excessive or extreme work can in the end result in no success at all at a rate not suffered by white persons.

This is a reality and not the manufactured bullshit world you want to believe in. That world, to which you believe, is a lie told by those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. And you've bought into it with all the gusto they've come to expect from a population with immense ego and nothing underneath. Congratulations.

So you can dangle your token black man success story in front of us all you want. But we haven't bought into the lie. So your effort is in vain.

 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
261. Don Thompson
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 07:25 AM
Jun 2014

is a lie? Because you don't want to believe it's possible doesn't make it impossible. He would have never succeeded if he had your attitude.

Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #284)

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
218. ...The face of poverty is overwhelmingly white...
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:58 PM
Jun 2014

So is the face of America. 63% of Americans (200 million, give or take) are white. Only 1 in 8 Americans are black, but 1 in 4 (by your stats above) of those living in poverty are black. 1 in 4.5 of those without health insurance were black. So the percentage of black Americans in poverty or without healthcare is greater than among white Americans, by your own stats. Simply using total numbers without actually checking them against the percentages of the subpopulations is misleading. A greater percentage of blacks live in poverty than the percentage of whites living in poverty.

And the average net worth of black households is something like 1/20th the net worth of white households. It was all the 'up' to 1/10th before the recession, but economic crises drain wealth from the poorest households more strongly than the richer ones.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
187. ROFL
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:02 PM
Jun 2014

Thank you for your display of the exact issue the OP discusses, in case someone claims this doesn't really happen.

Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #273)

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
281. Of course they did.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:49 PM
Jun 2014

But implying that the reason black people are less successful than white people - and in this country, in terms of education/income level, they unfortunately are on average - has to do with some mass-level personal deficiency, borders on racism at the very least. By discounting the influence of societal racism, you're essentially implying that black people are in some way inferior to white people, whether that alleged inferiority is genetic or "cultural."

 

SevenSixtyTwo

(255 posts)
285. Not at all.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 05:55 PM
Jun 2014

I'm saying successful black people have shown that with hard work and the right attitude, societal racism can be overcome. Mr. Thompson won. The hurdle may have been higher for him but he cleared it and went to the top. White people didn't do it for him. The President didn't do it for him. HE did it. More black people need to emulate Mr. Thompson and those like him. That's what will close the ratio gap that seems more important that individual success here. There's nothing I can do about it. I failed even with "white privilege". I don't have what it takes. Mr. Thompson does. Skin color had nothing to do with his success or my failure. We're all the same color between the ears.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
289. "We're all the same color between the ears." - Again, sentimental bullshit.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 07:11 PM
Jun 2014

Your entire demeanor on this issue is absolutely surreal. It's as if you possess no understanding of history or sociology or psychology or economics or social justice at all.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
291. There are always those who appear well-intentioned, but don't think through the implications
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:07 PM
Jun 2014

of what they're saying. As I said, if one denies the pervasiveness of racism in American culture, then they're implying (whether they realize it or not) that some deficiency inherent in people of color is responsible for the achievement gap.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
290. Sure it can be overcome, but it shouldn't *have* to be overcome in the first place.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:01 PM
Jun 2014

Generations of entrenched poverty and inequality are one of this country's greatest shames.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
158. Actually for me it was just the opposite, after Obama was elected I discovered
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:13 PM
Jun 2014

that a lot of people I thought I knew...turned out to be nothing but base racists. Now I believe racism is on the increase, not decrease. Before Obama was elected, I thought it was on the decline.

People I've known for years and years...telling me they would not vote for a black man (not the word they chose)...it really floored me and made me reevaluate my relationship with a lot of people.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
164. It got worse after the election.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 07:52 PM
Jun 2014

I honestly had hope until the Tea Party, and they spread their shit for so long so easily that their mindset of Obama never doing anything right is just how things are now.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
221. Yup.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 10:02 PM
Jun 2014

The racism coming from the Clinton campaign in the 2008 primary is when I decided I would never vote for Clinton. She let her surrogates play the race card with nary a peep (or apology) from her. It was truly disgusting. And now she's going around pretending to be indignant because people are pointing out her political cowardice about gay rights during her hubby's time in office.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
167. I'm sure Reginald Denny agrees.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:03 PM
Jun 2014

I'd be surprised if you even know who he is:




Absolutely Horrific-The Reginald Denny and Fidel Lopez Beatings



The 1992 Los Angeles riots began at the intersection of Florence and Normandie with two horrific beatings. This is video of both. Btw, I'm disgusted that the police were found innocent of the blatant beating of Rodney King.

Reginald Denny beating

At approximately 6:45 pm, Reginald Oliver Denny, a white truck driver who stopped at a traffic light at the intersection of Florence and South Normandie Avenues, was dragged from his vehicle and severely beaten by a mob of local black residents as news helicopters hovered above, recording every blow, including a concrete fragment connecting with Denny's temple and a cinder block thrown at his head as he lay unconscious in the street. The police never appeared, having been ordered to withdraw for their own safety, although several assailants (the so-called L.A. Four) were later arrested and one, Damian Williams, was sent to prison. Instead, Denny was rescued by an unarmed, African American civilian named Bobby Green Jr. who, seeing the assault live on television, rushed to the scene and drove Denny to the hospital using the victim's own truck, which carried twenty-seven tons of sand. Denny had to undergo years of rehabilitative therapy, and his speech and ability to walk were permanently damaged. Although several other motorists were brutally beaten by the same mob, Denny remains the best-known victim of the riots because of the live television coverage.




Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1cb_1304689062#qDBGqS9KeY4S7eCE.99

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
171. Do you have a point?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:16 PM
Jun 2014

This just proves the point the author was making even more. I was a bout a mile away from there and i saw cops beating up teenage boys for no reason. White cops do it everyday. They shoot oeople in the back who are cooperating and those people are usually not white. 1 incident during the LA riots does not negate the experiences of millions of black people over 4 centuries.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
180. I did.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:33 PM
Jun 2014

I was seventeen and stole from the mall. First time. My friend went to youth camp jail, i went home.
She was poor and i spoke perfect proper english. They put her in a cell and fed me italian food. In that situation i was chosen to be the good n**** and she got to be the bad one. It always happens that way.

You had no point.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
199. I'll check it out!
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:20 PM
Jun 2014

I already talk like that anyway. It pisses some people off and they call me white cheerleader valley girl. See, i get it from both sides. Like Oh my Godz! Whats their damage? LOL!

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
186. So, Reginald Denny commented on this article? Where did he do that?
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:49 PM
Jun 2014

oh, he didn't? Then why did you attempt to make a bizarre and non-existent connection?

I watched the Reginald Denny incident on live TV, and I also lived through the LA riots in 1992 first hand.

Denny's own beliefs about the incident are quite different from your representation of them.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Reginald-Denny-Looks-Back-on-the-LA-Riots--149165165.html

Although Denny was targeted because he is white, he said focusing on race in thinking about the riots is foolish and shortsighted.

“People seem to forget it was black folks that saved my life,” Denny said. “On one hand, there were some out there to try to kill me or do me in. On the other hand, they are trying to save me because I’m not the enemy, and believe me I am not the enemy.”

At the time of the interview 10 years ago, Denny had long since forgiven the men who assaulted him.

He reserved his anger for the politicians and police, whom he said abandoned the city that day.

“Where they hell were they?” he asked. “They were just like, ‘I ain’t doing nothing.’”


I agree with Denny. The riot was initially a small, local response to the jury verdict on the police that went out of control because Darryl Gates pulled the LAPD out and away from doing their jobs. The cops just disappeared. "To Serve and Protect", indeed. Gates did the same thing in the Watts riots as a commander in 1968. Cut and run.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
207. Here you go.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:35 PM
Jun 2014

If you read my earlier post, this might look familiar to you.


Although Denny was targeted because he is white, he said focusing on race in thinking about the riots is foolish and shortsighted.

“People seem to forget it was black folks that saved my life,” Denny said. “On one hand, there were some out there to try to kill me or do me in. On the other hand, they are trying to save me because I’m not the enemy, and believe me I am not the enemy.”
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
196. In my area too, but against Native Americans.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:13 PM
Jun 2014

They make fun of them with no shame. Then they start on blacks and Samoans, Tongans, Hmong, and on down the list to Mexicans, even though we have very few hispanics.

Warpy

(110,913 posts)
183. That, I explain, trying to be gentle, is what tokenism is for
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 08:38 PM
Jun 2014

Allowing a handful of any disadvantaged class to succeed is meant to convince you that all ugly past discrimination is over, when that's far enough from the truth to be a bald faced lie. Most of the old barriers are still there, even if some of the egregious legal barriers have been overturned. If you've grown up ghettoized (and you don't actually have to live in the inner city to qualify, most ghettos are socioeconomic, not physical), you will instantly be clicked into whatever socioeconomic class bigots think you belong to and that is where you will stay for your whole life no matter how smart you are or how hard you work.

But try not to be swayed by tokenism. Look at how people of color are underrepresented in industry and the halls of power and how overrepresented they are in prison. Look at how women are underrepresented in the class of high wage earners and how overrepresented they are in severe poverty. That's all the proof you need is that tokenism is meaningless when it comes to the struggle disadvantaged people face.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
194. Yes i agree.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:11 PM
Jun 2014

If anyone needs to see how stupid tokenism is they should catch an episode of south park with Token in it.

GeorgeGist

(25,294 posts)
214. Trick headline in OP.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:52 PM
Jun 2014

Real title of study:

If he can do it, so can they: exposure to counterstereotypically successful exemplars prompts automatic inferences.[
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
216. You should post a link to the study.
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:55 PM
Jun 2014

Just in case anyone wants to read it. The headline is not a trick, it is just the yeadline Huffpo chose to use. I do not change headlines.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
276. Agreed
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 01:09 PM
Jun 2014

The Democratic party used to be about celebrating success,, overcoming obstacles (eg. social barriers) and self empowerment (Woman's rights movement).

Now we have sunk to the low of the Republican party by tearing people down for success by looking at skin color. That is a sad commentary about our society when both Democrats (eg privilege non-sense) and Republicans (entitlement non-sense) both perpetuate self inflicted wounds to the psyche of our own nation.

Inner peace and happiness starts from within and that is where success begins.

Response to bravenak (Original post)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
241. LOL!
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 01:07 AM
Jun 2014
240. We are all Dems here (nominally). We can work it out.

Can you stop being the self-appointed race baiter?

Fat chance, just a vain hope.


Reposting an article written by a white woman is race baiting if you're a black woman? Strange you seem to know so much about me without interacting with me.
I hope next time you click on the link.

Response to bravenak (Reply #241)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
243. So, is there a limit to the amount and type of articles i can post?
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 01:27 AM
Jun 2014

Am i supposed to feel bad for making you have to read stuff you don't like to read? That's what trash thread is for.
I will not be told by you what i should post about. Stop over noticing what i post about. You do you, i do me. I don't need a net nanny. Mind your'n and i'll tend to mine.

Response to bravenak (Reply #243)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
245. You should post more.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 01:37 AM
Jun 2014

I am enjoying it ever so much. I love this game.



I was going to let this be the last one, but i can see we need to develop more awareness of these issues. I will have to continue until we all have a better understanding of each other.

Response to bravenak (Reply #245)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
247. The answer is more diversity and communication.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:04 AM
Jun 2014

When those of a subaltern group speak up about issues that they care about, don't call them a race baiter or accuse them of playing the race card. It minimizes the issue and has the effect of shutting the converstion down and ensuring that nothing is accomplished.
There is a whole list of things we can do to help the situation and make it fair for everyone regardless of color. But, pretending that it was all in the past and has no effect on today is being disingenuous. It does still affect minorities today in a variety if ways and we need to fix it before we hand it off to our children. Those in the majority today, will one day be in the minority and may in future suffer the effects of systemic racism themselves one day. We need to lay the groundwork to end the biases now and stop sweeping things under the rug and putting them off until kater. We have run out of time.

Now if you want my list, here it is. I have more but we can start with that.

Okay.

1. Schools should be free up to an AA or technical degree. Free Jr. College.
2. Punishment for not violent drug crimes should be and education trade training program and Caltrans ( work program, community service) a small fine to cover court costs, and probation.
3. Voting rights returned as soon as released from jails
4. Better housing programs and end the welfare reform ( it targets the poor)
5. Cash payments for welfare increased to 1500 a month and a minimum wage of 18 per hour.
6. Amnesty for undocumented people and free programs to help new citizens assimilate.
7. Increase of at least 100 percent in funding housing and food programs.
8. Free lunch to all students up to 18 years of age
9. More music education for students
10. Mandatory bilingual education all students must learn a second language
11. End profiling and the suing of departments that engage in it.
12. Review of all criminal cases to find sentence disparities and the lowering of sentences for those who have been violated by the system and reparation made to the victims of profiling
13. Veteran housing
14. More accessible senior housing and assistance for the disabled
15. Wage reviews to determine if pay disparities are occurring. If they are payments must be made by employers to the employees they shafted.
16. Taxes on incomes of more that one million at 50 percent, more that a billion at 80 percent . No one gets a billion dollars that fast with out being a crook.
17. Capital gains tax rise and a transaction tax.
18. Give back the native americans 20 percent of the land available and owned by the government for their use and control. There should be a contiguous mass so they can have a sovereign nation or it should be negotiated with the tribes.
19. Reparations to Blacks and natives in the form of cash payments, and any hispanics that were discriminated and a review of reparations to asian american to see if the were repaid in full plus interest.
20. Review of death row inmates and new trials should be easier to get.
21. No more all white juries judging minorities. They have shown bias many many times and innocent black men were murdered by the state for crimes they did not commit. ( everyone should get a review since we don't know what the fuck we are doing)
22. End the drug war and put in place centers for user to purchase their drugs from a pharmacist. They must be combined with in patient and out patient rehabilitation centers, with a sober living component in town. Must watch a film on the dangers before you are prescribed meds and must have a purchase limit. ( some substances should remain banned, some should be regulated)


I have much more but i thought this was getting long.

Cha

(295,929 posts)
249. Great list, bravenak!
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:29 AM
Jun 2014
18. Give back the native americans 20 percent of the land available and owned by the government for their use and control. There should be a contiguous mass so they can have a sovereign nation or it should be negotiated with the tribes.

19. Reparations to Blacks and natives in the form of cash payments, and any hispanics that were discriminated and a review of reparations to asian american to see if the were repaid in full plus interest

The jury has spoken on the guy who didn't like what you were saying very much..

And, he's had his name removed so the jurors who gave it a Hide were right on.. #7 here..


On Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:11 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Not at all!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5096357

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack, this person appears to have entered this thread for the sole purpose of launching them.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:22 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Talk about shit-stirring.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing in the least wrong with this post. Goofy idea, alerting.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree "personal attack" and the poster already has one egregious post hidden. Time to give it a rest.
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
257. Thanks for the results.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 05:12 AM
Jun 2014

I like the idea of giving back at least some land, they got ripped off.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
264. It's funny ...
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 07:53 AM
Jun 2014

All these folks telling you to stop making them read stuff they don't like. It's like they have zero self regulation.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
301. That post was hidden and eventually auto-removed.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:57 PM
Jun 2014

But. It seems there's a conspiracy against you...I tried to alert two posts. The first was already alerted and kept 2-5. The second was kept 1-6 - NO ONE explained their decisions. NONE!

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
302. I know what's going on.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:03 PM
Jun 2014

I know why, and it's not because this information is new. I posted the reason last week in AA.
Thank you for trying, but it's probably hopeless.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
270. If that ...
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:54 AM
Jun 2014

"Meaningless generalization" is supported the data of a peer reviewed study, then it is neither meaningless, nor a generalization.

Perhaps you should have read the article, if not the study.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
279. It's worse than that. They fear the loss of white male privilege. A lot of white folks
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:12 PM
Jun 2014

are so used to starting with an advantage---"at least I'm white"---that they get really shaken when they think that advantage may be taken from them. And so, they overreact the other way. "How much are those Blacks going to demand?" becomes their new complaint. "I'm not a racist. I just want the same chance my dad had." Ignoring the fact that their dad had it good, because part of his wealth came from the underpaid labor of a bunch of minorities and women. They know that they are losing something of tremendous economic value and it scares them shitless.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
283. But to hear it told ...
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 04:07 PM
Jun 2014

That couldn't be the case because they never owned slaves! Never mind the Coates piece detailing the systemic advantages, e.g., governmental programs and societal barriers imposed on the "others. "

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
294. Another blanket accusation of racism against whites
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:41 PM
Jun 2014

...thrown out with the obvious goal of sowing racial division within the Democratic party. This OP is racist IMHO. And don't give me your standard, "I didn't write the article" bullshit, because you obviously agree with it and you are the one who went out and found it and chose to post it.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
296. I bolded conservative for you this time.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:50 PM
Jun 2014

Bill Bennett is a conservative, and that is who the article was referring to.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
303. "White People Think"
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:03 PM
Jun 2014

When you throw out "White People Think" you are including ALL white people. You know that.

You are not fooling anyone.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
304. You think i wrote this?
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:05 PM
Jun 2014

You should have clicked on the link and read the article and let the author know how you felt about her article.
I noticed that everything i post makes you angry. You should try not to notice me so much.

Response to bravenak (Reply #304)

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
307. You aren't fooling anyone
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:34 AM
Jun 2014

You say the same thing to anyone who calls you out on your little game. Every OP you post is an attack on white Democrats. Perhaps if you didn't constantly attack people based on their skin color, you would get a more positive response. The people who call out your OPs are not the problem.

This sort of racism has no place on a Democratic forum.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
309. When someone
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:47 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:19 AM - Edit history (1)

If you cannot handle being called out on your OPs then stop posting them. Or reword them so they are not insulting to Democrats. You should stop with the blanket attacks on loyal Democrats and their families. It's shameful.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
311. I like the way you posted it with the bolding
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:51 AM
Jun 2014

I'm not offended or annoyed in the slightest, and I'm a middle aged white guy. CONSERVATIVE and REPUBLICAN whites are the ones who need to look at their feelings and white privilege. I KNOW I have white privilege, and I'm all for minorities being on a level playing field with whites.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
313. Thank you, i will continue to bold key words.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:54 AM
Jun 2014

This is about William Bennett and conservatives like him. I just really hate the guy.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
321. "I KNOW I have white privilege" "White privilege" doesn't exist as a tangible thing, Steve.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:36 AM
Jun 2014

It never has. Probably never will(at least not in America, anyway).

"and I'm all for minorities being on a level playing field with whites."


So am I. But you can genuinely believe this without buying into the literal privilege wackadoodle.....and I'll just leave it at that.

Response to bravenak (Reply #310)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
314. You need to stop attacking me.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:55 AM
Jun 2014

This article is NOT about you. I do NOT know you, and NEVER think about you before i post.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
331. Well ...
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 01:18 PM
Jun 2014

It is clear that that poster believe that it IS about them ... perhaps because they can relate to/recognize themselves in the study ' s ffindings.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
334. It's based on a study. THINK, don't frame.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:24 PM
Jun 2014

Often, studies will be reported as generalizations - doesn't mean ALL of a group being studied should be generalized (whether people of a certain race, animals of a certain class, people in an economic class, people in a certain county, etc.) - the reporting just reflects the results of the study.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
336. I don't take it that way
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:56 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sun Jun 15, 2014, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)

I have no reason to feel defensively about a headline like this. Why do you?

I also known I have seen the very attitude described in the OP. People insist Beyoncé or Oprah are examples that show prove that racism isn't an issue and even that white people are more oppressed. The fact that anyone thinks racism against whites is any way equivalent to treatment of people of color shows just how invested they are in maintaining a racially stratified society.
Any question that whiteness doesn't equate with superiority is an outrage to those invested in silencing discussion of racism in order to keep people of color subjugated. The same goes with those determined to control the language people of color can use to talk about racism. Don't mention privilege because it hurts the feelings of the perpetually self entitled, and lord knows nothing can be more important than egos of those who consider themselves superior simply by virtue of being white and male, a sense of superiority so absolute that feel they have the right to control all political debate on a public message board.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
342. It's funny ...
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:26 PM
Jun 2014

We see the Oprah and Beyonce examples; but let's not forget about the most prevalent "racism is over" frame ... "we have a Black man as president ... and we voted for him; therefore, racism no longer exists. "

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
332. Jury Results =
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 01:37 PM
Jun 2014

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This personal attack is just bizarre, especially on a liberal board. This is really OTT, disruptive and inappropriate.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 15, 2014, 01:30 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: In my opinion, AgingAmerican is a Troll and needs to find Discussionist. I vote to Hide It.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is an element of truth here. I have seen other posts that arouse my suspicions
and make me curious of Bravenak's presence on this board.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post is on the money. The alert is offensive.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: My take on the OP was that the conservative author just doesn't get it. Inappropriate personal attack/accusation.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Calling a poster racist is about as nasty as you can get. If you make such a charge you damn well better be able to back it up. Poster didn't so I believe it should be hidden-it isn't worthy of being discussed.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
338. Don't talk about racism or the experiences of people of color
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 04:46 PM
Jun 2014

That is divisive. Forcing the majority of the population to remain silent isn't divisive. Instead, allowing people of color and women to speak in public is divisive. Becoming angry that someone posts about a Republican like Bill Bennett, and siding with him over fellow Democrats, is in my view divisive. How can that be about unity of the Democratic Party?

Here's a basic fact. Snowden, Hillary Clinton, drug policy, guns, and every other issues that Democrats are divided by prompt no concern. Rather, what cannot be tolerated is a perspective of people of color to be voiced in public. "Unity" requires they stay in their place, just like women who dare to think rape and violence matter.

As others on this board have pointed out many times, division along racial lines exists already. What you and others object to is the view from the other site of that divide. That anyone can get so agitated over the very small number of people of color on this site says a great deal.

Your version of unity is not in fact unity but exclusion of non-white male voices, one that privileges a RW like Bill Bennett over members of this site who care about racism. The majority demographic of the Democratic Party is women and people of color, yet for some reason some here on DU insist that majority not be allowed to speak in public. Rather the only acceptable concerns are those set by the demographic that most reliably votes Republican. Anyone outraged at the existence and voices of people of color and women doesn't have enough in common with someone like me to be divided from. That you think the majority has no right to speak and you take up in support of Bill Bennett over a fellow Democrat tells me you have no respect for the party, liberalism, or the majority of the American public.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
323. I agree, he is.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:40 AM
Jun 2014

I mean, I don't believe in all this "white privilege" stuff myself(well, I used to, but that was before I joined this site), but you don't need to, to understand that America is not really "100% post racial", as some misguided people may believe.....

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
324. That's true.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:41 AM
Jun 2014

Yeah, I mean, it's fairly obvious we've come a long way since the days of Wilson, Harding, et al., but we still have a ways to go. But the edifice IS cracking.....in fact, that's why so many of the Teabaggers have come out swinging; they know their time is running short. May it be so.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
326. A large number do.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:54 AM
Jun 2014

The weird part is, the ones who are most likely to think that Obama's victories prove this isn't a racist country anymore are the ones who STILL don't accept that Obama won fair and square.

Go figure.

Response to bravenak (Original post)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
347. My whole family has this advantage in varying degrees.
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:58 AM
Jun 2014

My husband has to tell people he's black and some still don't believe him. I fully admit that i have it much easier than some and have no difficulty finding work, but i still feel when all eyes are on me. And i know why.

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