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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhite People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over
Last edited Fri Jun 13, 2014, 09:20 AM - Edit history (1)
Rebecca Hiscott
Posted 06/10/2015
As the votes were tallied for the 2008 presidential election, conservative pundit William Bennett weighed in on the election's significance. Ill tell you one thing it means, as a former secretary of education, Bennett said on CNN. You dont take any excuses anymore from anybody who says, The deck is stacked.'
Bennett, who is white, suggested that if Barack Obama could become president, so could any black man. Implicit in the argument was that systemic racial discrimination was no longer keeping black men and women from success.
Bennett is far from alone in arguing that a single black American's success is proof that impenetrable racial barriers no longer exist. In fact, it's a common view, according to a recent study published in the peer-reviewed Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
The study authors, Clayton R. Critcher, assistant professor at University of California Berkeley, and Jane L. Risen, associate professor at the University of Chicago, found that exposure to a single African-American in a high-performing position -- any position outside stereotypical jobs in which blacks traditionally excel -- is enough to make whites more likely to deny the existence of systemic racism.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/racism-success-study_n_5474419.html
TexasProgresive
(12,148 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Livluvgrow
(377 posts)think about anything other than whites and racism. Seems like you have an issue with white people. Seems like you have your mind made up that white people are just plane racist. Old white people, progressive white people, all kinds of white people. You act as though you know how white people think, yet will argue that whites cant empathize with blacks.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If i don't post it, who will? You? We matter too and our issues are important.
Livluvgrow
(377 posts)Point is what is your issue with white people? Seems like you are fixated on lumping all white people into the same racist category any chance you get while not really understanding white people.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I find you very interesting.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)You know where I stand on this - and you know what I'm seeing -
And what I am seeing has nothing to do with DU.
I just read that at Fort Carson in CO the soldiers there have found flyers to join the coming race war.
The idiot in Nevada that's been stealing from the American Tax Payers and has is own private army protecting him - what was his name again? Bundy something or another?
The Kochs coming for the young affluent black vote.
Uh - if not now - then when? There are a few topics that we better start discussing on the left and this is one of them. Along with nuts with guns. And dominionists. And soft money. And far reaching organizations.
The shell game is on and the fix is in and folks want to sit around and sing mighty peace and freedom songs and folks - it's not working anymore.
Now at DU - why can't folks see that they better understand precisely what is in the minds of those Fox news viewers. The more we know precisely how they think - the better chance we have to communicate their warped world view to those in the middle. And to present it just like that - warped world view.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)It's well worth the time it takes . . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5090844
bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)regarding their posting choices? We have DUers that post almost exclusively about the NSA, or TPP or XL or their disagreement with President Obama about ... well ... everything.
Have you questioned any of these posters?
fishwax
(29,146 posts)"Seems like you are fixated on lumping all white people into the same racist category any chance you get while not really understanding white people."
Doesn't seem that way to me
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I'm white, and the OP doesn't bother me.
Yes, there are some of us (a minority of us, based on general white attitudes towards Obama and other politicians of color as shown in most polls) who try to move away(no white person is totally non-racist, it's just a question of trying to move past it within ourselves and to confront it in society or choosing not to do so)but this hasn't gone away as a problem.
And it is still the great "wedge issue" in American politics...it's still what's used, more than anything else, to get working-class whites to vote against their own economic interests in election after election after election. It's used to prevent the emergence of class unity among working people, the unity that must be prevented, at all costs, if the 1% are to maintain their stranglehold on the rest of us.
And there's no moral law that says a person of color OR a white person must address other issues in order to be allowed to talk about racism.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)Were at a time when exponentially accelerating technology will produce the equivalent of 20,000 years of progress this century (measured at the average pace between 1980 and 2000). This progress will most certainly give us advanced genetics, nanotechnology, and who knows what else.
If the technology isnt available to modify your own genome to make yourself black, white, yellow, or purple with pink polka dots by 2050, it most certainly will be shortly thereafter. In this century, heart disease, cancer, even ageing itself will fall to progress. Humanity will expand off this planet and start colonizing space, spreading out into all corners of the universe...
And here you are fixating on a transitory issue that will soon be gone instead of putting your energies to use on something that really matters (that cancer cure sure would be handy).
All this political, racial, economic, squabbling will all be swept away soon enough by the forces that are coming.
Worrying about the sandcastles on the beach while a tidal wave is headed your way is folly indeed. Let's get our priorities right here.
http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Not interested i trans/post humanism. Unless you have the nanobot technology ready for human use that is safe, tested and free, we still need to work on these issues.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)WOW ... was that not a study in wishful thinking?
Might I suggest that that poster not concern his/her self with food or water today because he/she will eventually be dead!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Why? I love science fiction too, but i will not just forget everything to become a cyborg.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)The fact you fixate on today was exactly my point... fixating on those trees - trying to solve problems that aren't going to be relevant in a couple decades. No vision of the future, unable to even imagine whats coming, much less make intelligent projections based on current trending. You might as well be trying to design the next great buggy whip with that backwards thinking.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's just that you are talking science fiction. When it becomes useable science i will revisit the issue.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)When the future becomes the present, you don't need vision... you accept the given in front of you - like you do now.
If one cant abstract where things are going based on current trending, your basically walking into the future blind. I knew that was the case though given your fixation on racial issues, even though it will be moot in a few decades. There's nothing wrong with concern for inequities of today, but to fixate leaves you unable to work towards whats REALLY coming.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Income inequality, harrasment by cops, stop and frisk, sentencing disparities, none of this matters because.... The future. No.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)You can work on helping one or two people on transient problems, or you can work towards cures for heart disease and cancer and save millions or billions. What's a more efficient use of your time? Even if you cant do the research yourself, you can support the sciences financially or by trying to motivate others to jump into the fight.
See this video and it should be obvious where it's going.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I had a child woth a genetic disorder and i was desparate. I looked into everything from cloning to transhumanism, thats how i know what you are talking about. It was indicated to me that it woukd be at least thirty years before anything would be useable in humans. Peopke are suffering now and we can't ignore that to put our hope in Ray and his science fiction. When he makes it fact, get back to me.
There is no cure for what my daughter had and we buried her July 2003. Zellwegers syndrome, look it up. We cannot just leave people to suffer today in order to work on the future. Would you have told me to forget her and just worry about Futurism? You should post about it sonewhere, but i see it as a solution that does not exist yet.
sheshe2
(83,355 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Things like that make you desperate and you will try to find a solution even if it's magic. That's where i heard of that guy. I felt the same way about it as that poster who referred to it did, until it was over.
sheshe2
(83,355 posts)I had to look up Zellweger syndrome to understand.
You are a strong brave woman.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But i did learn quite a bit about genetics and how to do sterile procedures, it helped me with my daughters. Life is crazy, one day i'll write it all down and publish it on Amazon. I can't even watch Bridget Jones Diary to this day. Her name. Stresses me out.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)
I cannot imagine how hard it would be to lose a child.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I remembered being into that stuff during that time. It was a coping mechanism. Thanks though, i get by.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)"but i see it as a solution that does not exist yet." -- using that logic we shouldn't search for cures for cancer or heart disease at all... because they aren't here currently.
I stated earlier that some concern for the issues of the day are normal and warranted. What isn't warranted is spending your life's efforts on problems that wont be problems long. i.e. Any child or young adult working to become a translator in another language should know they will be replaced in short order by computers. Translator software is already about as good as a human (and improving) and will be available free on every phone on the planet in short order. By 2050 or thereabouts, race will be as flexible as what clothes you wish to wear today.
There may not be much one can do for your child currently, but spending all your time fighting racists, when race will cease to mean anything shortly, does nothing for those future children who will get the same disease. If you efforts can speed up the process so that even a few of those children are saved, then it's time well spent. It's useful not only to the children with that specific disease, but the science acquired searching for a cure would be useful in numerous other fields and cases.
I understand there's a 99.999% chance to change your mind on this... you've already invested a ton of time obviously on this race issue and you don't want to think you've done the wrong thing. Your going to rationalize your choice any way you can.
But for the sake of all those people you could save, and in an appeal to that .001% chance - think about the lives you could be saving. Those children with parents like you, who have to stand by and watch as nothing is available. If you could look them in the eyes, you would be doing everything possible now to help them.
All it requires is an understanding of where genetic technology is going - so that you'll see that race wont be an issue in a few decades... but your efforts towards moving science forward will save many many lives.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Just because you think you know the future, doesn't mean you are right. I do not think you are. It has been a problem in this country for 400 years and i'll stop, when it is no longer an issue.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)Rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic isn't going to help much - but you knock yourself out.
I'll close with a clear syllogism.
1. Race is determined by genes.
2. Mankind is going to continue to gain detailed and advanced control of genes over the next 50 years.
3. Therefore mankind will continue to gain detailed and advanced control of race over the next 50 years.
This same control will allow for elimination of disease and death.
But again, you keep working on those sandcastles while the tidal wave is upon us.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,267 posts)Is a fantasy.
These issues are not going anywhere, and science is not a magic cure all for all the ills in the world. We will never be free of things like aging, discrimination, and I highly doubt we will ever find a "cure" for cancer.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)As soon as you reach the ranks higher than Director of Engineering at Google (like Kurzweil), maybe someone might listen to you - until then, I suggest you just sit quietly and let the experts build the future.
If there's one thing worse than anti-science religious fanatics, its anti-science luddites who seem to think mankind has perfected technology or themselves with his or her generation.
LostOne4Ever
(9,267 posts)Thinking that things like aging are going to go away violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
All the universe is nothing more than a huge thermodynamic system that processes energy and the process of doing that, according to the 2nd law, is never 100% efficient. It always creates by products. Usually these by-products are harmful to the thermodynamic system that created them. Don't put a muffler on a car and the gaseous by products will break down the engine.
This is why we can not create a perpetual motion machine. Why things age. Why things decay and break down. Why metals rust, and animals die and decay.
Saying that science will defeat all those things IS ANTI-SCIENCE. Because it directly ignores the scientific laws that you seem to be completely ignorant. Science can not defeat nature because all that composes science is knowledge of nature and how we obtain that knowledge. Science applications is not controlling nature so much as it is piggybacking on it.
To defeat those things would require infinite resources and time...something we do not have.
And I trust Albert Einstein, Carnot, Planck, Boltzman, Clausius, etc far more than your misunderstanding of Kurweil.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:53 AM - Edit history (2)
Yes, disorder increases in a closed system, until you deliberately reverse it by adding energy and intelligence, which happens every day. The gutters on your house fall off, you replace them. A window breaks, you fix it.
A human body is exactly like a house or a window, disorder will increase in a system until it's fixed. Your body being made of just atoms, can be fixed by moving those atoms around and that doesn't take "infinite" amounts of energy. All it takes is either the energy required to move the atoms back into the order wanted, or to improve the regenerative parts of your body so that it can do it itself. As long as your introducing energy into the system, its not a closed system.
Yes, if you didn't eat, eventually your body would be unable to repair damage it's taken (due to the fact of your body then being a closed system).
The problem is that the repair mechanisms of your body aren't smart enough to fix all the damage you've taken, like oxidized cholesterol. The human body cant normally deal with that, but some life forms can. It's a matter of finding the genes in those life forms that can and introducing them into the normal human DNA - and poof, now you can break it down as well. There is research already down these lines that will certainly be available by 2050. I have provided a link below referencing multiple fronts on which aging is being attacked in this, or some other manner.
If genetic manipulation fails you, then there's always the direct manipulation of atoms and molecules via nanobots. They too don't take "infinite" amounts of energy - no more than your normal cells do.
So please... when it comes to science, its obvious from your use of the 2nd law that you have a superficial understanding of it at best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)rosy. Not everyone has the time, nor luxury, to daydream about all the things you mention. Why don't you go start a thread on all that stuff and let people who don't have it so rosy talk about very real things that affect them? MUST you shit all over someone's thread simply because it doesn't pertain to you?
liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)Really? Seriously? What fucking planet do you live on and what color is the sky on it? Because you don't have to be non-white to see just how much racism still exists and how deeply it is still entrenched and institutionalized, you just have to be aware. Something you obviously are not. I'm white and I live on an Indian reservation in a blatantly, openly racist western state. Don't tell me that racism is a "transitory" issue of no importance, I see every single fucking day strong evidence of it and it ain't going anywhere, that's for sure.
Only a smug white person who can't get out of their own skin would think that racism is a "transitory" issue.
ananda
(28,783 posts)I see this as a subset of tokenism.
The Reeps use tokens persistently and mercilessly to
try to prove they're not "racist."
Whites who feel threatened by the growing majority
of non-whites might feel the need to tokenize in a
sense by seeing one person's success as a way to
dismiss the serious and pervasive racism in this
country.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)You have said in a few words what i spend all day trying to say...
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts){Riffing on the "Not all men" threads}
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Hi. Pasty older white guy here. You are totally mischaracterizing the OP.
Does the OP openly talk about racism a lot? Sure. (EDIT: Apparently the OP doesn't talk about racism as much as I thought, but I'm pretty new here, and have been in a variety of threads about racial inequality in which I also saw the OP. endEDIT) To help make up for the fact that most of the rest of us don't talk about it nearly enough. It's an important topic, and one that needs to be actively worked on. And lets face it, most of the time, most of us melanin-deficient types don't bother to. Social justice depends upon people actively working to break down and rebuild the social structures, laws, and ideas that are embedded in our country's culture that derive from centuries of inequality.
Can whites empathize with black people? Again, sure. but it takes a lot of work, a lot of time, and a lot of exposure to what black people live with 24/7/365. We are the sum of our experiences and what we learn from them, and we simply don't experience the same things, so we have to learn more from listening to black people speak about what happens to them, and to actually paying attention and seeing how they are treated differently so often and in so many situations than from actually living it ourselves.
Hell, I'm white and I 'have an issue' with white people - including myself. I'm not perfect, and I slip into the same damn mindset that reinforces social injustice rather than seeks to undo it, because I spent the first two thirds of my life in the same sort of denial, ignorant of just how deeply ingrained racial injustice is in this country. And, more depressingly, being willing to accept the same sort of shallow anecdotal 'evidence' as pointed out above, where the exception is supposed to somehow deny the rule.
So rather than trying to proclaim the OP is some sort of 'reverse racist', maybe you should sit back and spend a bit of time in introspection.
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)in a thread about a week ago ... you pleasantly shocked me. I posted an OP about a Planter's Peanut commercial and argued how the commercial changed the status quo. Many here took issue with my argument (which is fine), but you indicated that you had not even thought about how someone could see it as I did ... until you thought about it.
I can really only speak for myself, but I suspect that the PoC that remain on this site ... "mak(ing) it suck" because we are "fixated on race/racism" ... will agree: we do not seek "agreement"; only that others honestly seek to understand ... and that starts with stepping outside of one's self.
I commend you.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And now that I was, I can see that they were deliberately trying to tie the female worker's actions/words to the tagline for the snack. So they were making her 'sweet and salty' - salty towards the suit coworker, sweet to the nerd. And even though she'd been up all night working on the presentation, she looked pretty fresh - I guess they didn't really want to have a bedraggled spokesperson.
At any rate, I approach sociological issues the same way I do any other science these days - the more I know, the more I know how much more there is of which I'm ignorant. And when there are things I simply cannot live, I have to learn from those who do live them.
America has kicked the race can down the road endlessly, and the longer we fail to act to fix the structural racism inherent in the systems around us, the more painful it will be for everyone when fixes finally do arrive. Indeed, I see most of the 'tea party'/gun rights crossover lunacy as the product of unaddressed and coddled racism.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Also, livluvgrow said, or implied absolutely nothing about "reverse" racism. Where did you even get this from?
canuckledragger
(1,632 posts)Seems like YOU are the one having a problem when someone else points out obvious racism.
Seems like YOU have made up your mind to badger someone else's interest in a topic that makes YOU feel uneasy.
YOU act as if you know what this poster thinks.
Seems like YOU should just ignore the thread and move on with your life.
The rest of us want to have a discussion, if that's alright with YOU.
Could care less if it's not.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)You just instantly went to attacking bravenak for bothering you with racial issues...
I wish you could understand that your response is the reason the thread and discussion is necessary.
Heidi
(58,237 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,809 posts)named "plane racist" or you need to learn the basics of proper spelling and punctuation (you know, like also actually including the apostrophe in words like "can't"-not "cant" as you have it) before people will consider taking your whining views more seriously.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...is obsessed with attacking and accusing white people of being racist. Racial obsession of this type is itself a not so subtle form of racism.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I dunno about anyone else but you and I, but I too, suspect something is off about all this.....
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)How do you square that with participation on a progressive talk board?
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)and I'm white. She has never been anything but kind to me and an endless source of humor. Of course, I don't flip out at the discussion of racism. Nor do I take posts like this personally because I know they don't reflect how I think. I also know for a fact that Bravenak has a number of white friends. I'm guessing they don't take offense at the criticism of a right-winger like Bill Bennett either.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)it will be interesting to read the all comments this generates all over the internets i am sure!
(what came through my newsfeed)
http://www.thenation.com/blog/180214/surprise-study-finds-people-dont-understand-how-racism-works
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I can see that people think I am the Author of every article i post.
thucythucy
(7,986 posts)They obviously think you're both brilliant AND prolific.
Great OP by the way. I always know when I click on one of yours that I'm in for an interesting and informative read.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)certain folks..i wish i was joking
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Thats why i just do it anyway. I am helping awareness. The other side needs to fight dirty and they will. We should be prepared.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)many successful black people. Your post is an insult to hard working successful black people.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)people for having success regardless of their background and upbringing.
Livluvgrow
(377 posts)now you have went and made it about you. It is not about you it is the systemic problem perpetuated by the white majority. We cant go thinking for ourselves anymore we are defined by the white system and our community leaders wont step up and condemn the behavior.
betsuni
(25,138 posts)I'm spritzing this thread with Stop It spray and setting out roach motels. Bay leaves are also very good at repelling insects.
Deuce
(959 posts)wryter2000
(46,016 posts)Did I stumble into an upside-down, alternate universe DU here?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)BainsBane
(53,003 posts)What was this?
that single mothers are on the rise in our country and children simply don't have two parents to help raise them. Also a single mother must work more hours to raise children compared to a household that has two incomes to pull from. The government is tight on money and more and more men (especially black men) are incarcerated for not paying child support whether they are they father or not (biological). Straight Black males have walked away from father hood because there are no role models to look to for inspiration anymore and the entertainment media portrays them as fools. Bill Cosby I rarely agree with but he has talked about how there have always been strong black role models to look to but instead of focusing on black achievement the focus has shifted now.
The black community has the same issues as the LDC of the world in that that birth control education is lacking and that having a lot of kids reduces your spending power simply put. This cycle is difficult to break but it starts at the school level or more specifically public education levels.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4953402
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024995511
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024831601
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024947948
http://www.democraticunderground.com/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024175836
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024243816
What you are not on board with is putting down white men, even the racist ones referenced in this OP. You have no trouble putting down the rest of us, as the above links demonstrate.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I would like to read more articles on issues such as these and appreciate your persistence.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I guess it seems like years to some.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)For some, if you happen to post two articles regarding sexism or racism, you are branded as having inundated the forum with streams and streams of posts on that issue. They have absolutely no sense of proportion when it comes to issues they don't want to feel guilty about, but from which they know they benefit.
How can you have a good faith discussion with these people?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I find it very amusing that posting four or five Black articles has people thinking that this is all i do.
I promised myself i would try to bring a different perspective because i think it was missing these articles because we only post them in AA. Why should we hide back there like being black is a crime?
I'll give up soon.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)It's none of their damn business what you choose to post about, nor how often.
Meh, forum busybodies.....
Keep up the good work, bravenak.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They think i write them and have different names everyday or something.
If reading it is so upsetting i don't see why they would want to stress themselves out by getting mad.
ananda
(28,783 posts)The OP is not about successful Black people.
It's about white people who decide that racism is not an issue
because of successful Black people.
Huge difference.
randys1
(16,286 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)then recalled the first time I read this study ... I can't recall where the OP or the study was insulting to successful Black folks. In fact, I don't recall where the study or OP had anything to do with Black folks, at all!
fishwax
(29,146 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)a supreme court judge I knew racism was over.
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)wryter2000
(46,016 posts)Yeah, that was a great day for all of us.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)What are you trying to do, call every white person on DU a racist?
Hell there are a lot of us here and we aren't racists. Why do we need to read about this? We are on your side, can't you see? Just STOP fucking talking about it!
Don't you have a special forum where you can talk about this crap? Why do we have to read about it. I'm gonna make a poll and ask all of DU if they think these very divisive topics, that we agree with you on btw, should be kept off the main forum and in your own little cliquey group.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I am such an ass for saying things. I guess this is what happens when you post sexism articles. Everyone thinks that's all you do, all day everyday. Wow.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)The excuses and the reasons for objections are completely transparent, if you ask me.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Not gonna do it, it just makes me think they need to read more. I shall start posting hispanic articles too, now.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)If you don't believe that class is the only issue that black persons and women and LGBT face, well then, you are here to do nothing but divide the completely undivided DU.
We all agree 100% on the issues facing people on DU, don't you know?! Introducing these tangential arguments are meant to do nothing but divide us absolutely undivided people here on DU who believe if class issues were resolved, racism, sexism and all bigotry would automatically cease to exist.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They know that deep inside but it's hard to admit that many have it harder than you for no reason.
I think some feel like it diminishes their accomplishments.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)This reminds me so much of the "History of race relations" cartoon that was posted, where the white guy climbs on the Black person's back, onto his shoulder and up onto the ledger, only to refuse to give the Black guy a hand up because it wouldn't be fair.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)They actually think DU was all solidarity, a virtual echo chamber of perfection, until all us womens, gays, and AAs showed up and started posting about our issues.
Yeah, they are transparent and not fooling anyone. I, for one, appreciate the posts about these issues. I learn every time I read them.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)If he can do it, so can they: exposure to counterstereotypically successful exemplars prompts automatic inferences.
Critcher CR1, Risen JL2.
Abstract
After incidental exposure to Blacks who succeeded in counterstereotypical domains (e.g., Brown University President Ruth Simmons, Nobel Laureate Toni Morrison), participants drew an automatic inference that race was not a success-inhibiting factor in modern society. Of note, participants' automatic inferences were not simply guided by their explicit reasoning (i.e., their beliefs about what these exemplars signify about the state of race relations).
Studies 1-3 demonstrated the basic automatic inference effect and provided evidence that such effects unfolded automatically, without intention or awareness.
Study 4 replicated the effect in non-race-related domains. Subsequent studies examined what features of exemplars (Studies 5 and 6) and inference makers (Studies 7 and 8) prompt automatic inferences.
Study 5 suggested that counterstereotypically successful exemplars prompt racism-denying inferences because they signal what is possible, even if not typical.
Study 6 demonstrated that when these exemplars succeed in a stereotypical domain (e.g., Blacks in athletics), similar automatic inferences are not drawn. Those most likely to draw automatic inferences are people predisposed to approach the world with inferential thinking: participants dispositionally high in need for cognition (Study 7) or experimentally primed to think inferentially (Study 8).
(PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2014 APA, all rights reserved).
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)I see inferences and suggestions, I don't see data.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Follow it to the full study report.
caraher
(6,276 posts)You can see numbers to your heart's content. There are 8 separate experiments detailed along with the details of their statistical analyses...
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)result they want, and fashions the study to prove it. I have a lot of problems with the "automatic response" they keep harping on. And inferences. Not that I doubt that there are people who do exhibit such attitudes, but I know plenty who don't have this "automatic response".
caraher
(6,276 posts)I think you're suggesting that, because the paper begins with some discussion of their basic prediction, they have illegitimately cooked up some half-baked experiments to lend a flimsy support to a pre-ordained conclusion. It's certainly possible there are significant problems with their study design, or the relationship between their observations and their conclusions. But whatever might be wrong is at least not obviously wrong, not to me but more importantly not to the referees engaged by the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. The fact that they set the stage by outlining some motivations for the work is not in itself some kind of red flag, as you seem to suggest.
The fact that you "know plenty who don't have this "automatic response"" in no way conflicts with their results. Their claim is not that every individual is afflicted by this particular "automatic response;" rather, what they contend is that the response is sufficiently powerful and common that they can detect it in their study population (and by implication, that it is likely common in the population at large). Just as the fact that we both know "plenty" of minorities who have been remarkably successful does not imply racism is no barrier to success, so to your knowing "plenty" of people who (in your judgment) do not exhibit the posited "automatic response" does not deny that it may be present in a significant number of people.
In any case, your objection has shifted - I posted the link in reply to your challenge regarding numbers, and now that you have them your concern is different.
And I should add that I don't have any strongly-held belief about the correctness of their hypothesis. It strikes me as plausible, and as the kind of plausible idea that could quite easily prove not to pan out. The real test will come from researchers who might be skeptical, as they will be more creative in devising experiments that might expose any real gaps in their reasoning. (In science, and especially social science, the easiest person to fool is yourself!)
And in answer to your question, I read much of it and skimmed the rest. I don't think I'd profit from a reading more detailed than that unless I studied statistics for social science more! Did you read it?
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)their intended outcome. That is to say, they formulated the study to conform to a predicted outcome. Read it.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Science experiments start with a hypothesis, then studies and tests are done to see if the hypothesis turns out to be true or not.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)and am well aware of what constitutes a study, not an experiment, and if you read the study, it clearly states that they do exactly that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)abstracts, typically, don't include numbers ... just methodology summary and a summary of findings.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Even in a world where my 8 year old daughter has no memory of the US having a white president.
But the Sterling incident also showed that society does not tolerate racism any more.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The quiet racism is perfectly acceptable, like not wanting to live in a neighborhood where you are not the majority.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)Listening to their whistle and just going with it.
7962
(11,841 posts)The point is to make them a tiny minority as opposed to the ruling majority. In that case, we ARE there.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)They have deep pockets.
They own everything from Amway to Dixie Cups - thank God one of them gave up his private army.
They thrive on inflicting pain on others. They have an entire news station dedicated to getting their information out there to other people raised on Rushdooney's masochistic beliefs.
They own the House of Representatives and several members of the Supreme Court. One does their fetching and stepping for them on a regular basis.
Or am I not allowed to point that 'one' out?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)took "your" job/college admission slot, because ... well ... you are qualified.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And now he's fighting his ouster, with a plan to fig up 'dirt' on enough other team owners to make it impossible without forcing half the league to be sold out from under other owners.
I'd suspected when Cuban made his weaselly semi-defense of the idea of not ousting Sterling that he was probably worried about somebody coming out with something he did that was just as bad.
It would not shock me in the least to find out that many of the "owners" have said similar things.
(Oh, and Paula Deen is staging a 'comeback', with "Paula Deen Ventures', an online pay 'network'. Have some butter with your racism, y'all!)
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... Word for it to be racism but for too much it's the litmus for US society.
No n word...
No racism
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)No battered, bruised and bloodied, prudently dressed (before the dress was torn off), non-drinking, women that had never seen the guy before ... No rape.
ETA: funny how much the subjects have in common.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Under the radar and/or covertly, it still exists and it is still a major problem for African American people. That is what AAs are trying to explain to the rest of us, if we'll listen.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)"White People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over". If someone wrote that about blacks, I am pretty sure you would be screaming racism. That is racist on your part. It lowers the level of the discussion, it is just not true that "white people" think that, some white people, yes. I have no respect for your continual baiting.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)WCLinolVir
(951 posts)Funny that you do not respond to the points I made but hide behind the "I did not write it". That some journalist wants to flame-bait is nothing new.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)WCLinolVir
(951 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)WCLinolVir
(951 posts)Classic passive-aggressive.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)We discuss ideas here on DU because this is after all the internet.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)Bear with me - because you've made an excellent point here. It might not be the one you intended - but it's a really good point.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/racism-success-study_n_5474419.html
As posted over there:
White People Think One Black Person's Success Proves Racism Is Over
Email rebecca.hiscott@huffingtonpost.com - she's the caucasian woman that wrote the article for their business section and either she or her editor(s) gave the headline to the article.
Not bravenak.
Now that said - the email should probably read: Dear Ms. Hiscott - stop race baiting. If a white person - which you are - wrote something like that about blacks . . .
Sorry - my intent is not snark - but your brought up a REALLY GOOD POINT :highfive: with your post. Why DID a white woman get away with this article at Huffpo? In their business section to boot?
7962
(11,841 posts)They can sit around and hand wring and tsk tsk about how terrible things are.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)She's out there doing the bidding of someone in Corporate America with really deep pockets who needs this headline out there.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Hell, I'll have to admit I was guilty of some of that myself a while back(long before I joined DU, though).
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)Apparently thinks any publicity is good.And has little journalistic integrity. Bravenak reposted as what I refer to flame-bait. So by your logic she is race baiting.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)She's trying to show you what those people are.
Now imagine you are a successful black woman and you see that (I am that) . . .
I don't go to the business section of any 'so-called news' site to read that. I'm far more interested in reading how the hedgies are taking a blood bath lately!
What am I supposed to think?
What should bravenak think?
Should we just shut the fuck up and not point out what's being bandied about out there?
It's there.
We live it EVERY single DAY. I know that's a hard concept for liberals/progressives because it's not how liberals/progressives think. It's just not.
Race baiting is darkening President Obama's face for magazine covers. That's to gin those folks on the right up. It's to give them a new reason to hate and to fear. And well - to dismiss.
Race baiting is not repeating race baiting in the so-called Huffington Post news.
It's not the same.
Can I ask you a question - and it's serious.
Would you prefer that the African American members here no longer post anything about race? Because I'm one of them and I'm beginning to think it would be for the best since it gets everyone so emotional and worked up. It's not cool in an election year.
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)looks like bait, and is irresponsible and you can not respond to that issue, but now resort to such extremes as suggesting you don't post anymore? I am not emotional. I am tired of posts that don't try. I am tired of posts that lower the bar. I am tired of people who post headlines that are untrue blanket assertions, even if it a repost.
So your back against the wall hyperbole is looking like nothing but a good offense. Have a nice day.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)You kept pushing her to responds to your original post on this thread.
looks like bait, and is irresponsible and you can not respond to that issue
I just did that? I don't know what you want from me?
Is it absolute utter agreement? Or are we having a discussion?
It's not this - but now resort to such extremes as suggesting you don't post anymore
It's not extreme - I'm sorry but it's not.
Question - Do you want us to win the midterms? Do you want solidarity?
I'm suggesting that perhaps these aren't the types of discussions that lead to solidarity.
There has been a lot of emotion around these types of topics at DU. Perhaps you haven't seen that?
But then you suggest - that the OP lowered the bar?
I hate to say this - but it's reality.
This is what black America is bombarded with everyday. It's near and dear to us - and we discuss it. . . I discuss it with my husband and he's a middle aged white immigrant. It doesn't work him up or offend him - because he kind of looks at the world through my eyes and I look at it through his.
IF the subject line lowers the bar - and it's what is 'out there' - outside of DU - and we know the 'others' are reading it - I don't understand how it lowers the bar to quote an article that Bennett of all people is quoted in.
He's one of the worst of the worst offenders in America.
Can we agree on that? How he race baits? How he plays to the loud and vocal right's lowest and most base 'fears' and desires? How that has been his agenda?
Or should we just not discuss it at all?
Because truthfully I'm MORE THAN willing to take one for Team Left if it means every single person here gets out and votes and canvasses and makes calls and takes people to the polls this November.
I am absolutely suggesting we squash the discussion to make that happen. We'll pick up the ball again after the election.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)Go back and take another read of it. I picked up on it in a non-bold format - but hopefully that will help you to see what she's sharing here.
Also - dig into what the Koch brother's are up to with the UNCF. Nothing they do is sweet and innocent. Not one single thing. Very convenient timing for a bunch of new voters. . .
randys1
(16,286 posts)My god, so you have named any discussion of race "bait" or "baiting" so the discussion is shut down, do you understand that??????
WCLinolVir
(951 posts)No, I have not named any discussion of race as bait. But more hyperbole. Can't get enough of the over the top hyperbole when you point out that the article is misleading, and if it were a blanket assumption about any other race, would constitute racism. And instead of actually responding to criticism of the post, the poster actually tries the old you're emotional bs.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)What a pantload. Blacks have been elected to state and national office in majority white districts for years. Not to mention the countless number of successful black business men and women. I'm not even factoring in any kind of athlete or entertainer either.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)Didn't it?
Seriously- you haven't see the rise in their vitriol since 2007?
You SERIOUSLY haven't seen what those people are?
Please say it ain't so.
7962
(11,841 posts)They even impeached him. If Hillary had won in '08, it'd be the same thing. Sure there are racists out there, but of all the people I know who are against obama, all were just as strung out about Clinton. Its a "D" thing more than a black thing.
The screamers just get all the press.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)Remember the 'lyin African'?
The birth certificate?
The MuslimSocialFascist?
One thing is different between Clinton and Obama - 9/11. Which opened the door for their hatred towards ALL brown people.
What's most significant - those of us born after the civil rights movement -
Ask us how our parents were/are shocked that we'd ever have to live through this? What they lived through? I know my dad was. And he was the black guy that voted for Nixon in 1968. He never thought he'd see the vitriol again.
He also expressed to me two days before he died that the only things he regretted missing was my wedding (I got married 6 months after he passed) and the Clintons totally leaving politics. He was waiting for the day Clinton punched Newt in the mouth for calling his wife a bitch. Love him or hate him - that was my dad!
As for the Nixon thing - that was par for the course - Affluent southern black that was a Military Officer with a college education who came from a long line of Southern Republicans. I know his dad (born and raised and lived except for his years at Morehouse) first crossed over to vote D in 1964.
This Republican party would never ever want my grandfather to vote for them. Never in a million years. They hate poor blacks - they hate handed down wealth blacks even more. Because we are the perfect example of folks who have intergenerational wealth that came in SPITE of America not accepting our ancestors as full citizens - who can see how they - the Republican Party - they now don't accept us as full citizens.
I know you don't want to believe that and I accept that - but I see harsh vitriolic racists - and they live and breath and die in the Republican Party. Wake up and smell the enemy.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)That's not what I heard - about socialism -
I heard that young black women were destroying America from within and had to be stopped. Nothing got me out in the streets of Niagara Falls (I was at University at that time) to GOTV than that.
Remember the Welfare Queen meme? How they got rid of welfare and replaced it with SNAP and TANF?
You should should look up what Pat Buchanan and Newt have written and said about how that sweep happened.
Then look up who she 'The Welfare Queen' USED to be. She was Mammy.
In one generation we had gone from the sweetheart who raised 'them' to the most evil woman on the planet.
It's chilling - these people are absolutely terrifying - if you have lived in their cross hairs. They've had the gun pointed at me since I was three.
I know you don't want to see it -
But it's the truth and reality.
You do agree Republicans hate black women's guts - don't you? And it's not just becuase of Obama - or Clinton. Goldwater started it. And it's why they take such sick glee in painting our First Lady as a Chimp.
They have to dehumanize us - to well -dehumanize us.
So glad you are on my side though!
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)I think there are more layers to that. I also think that if First Lady Obama wasn't who she is - a certain segment of women in America might have gone hard for Hillary.
There's 'that'. It's out there brave.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)What an upsetting headline!! I don't like to change the headlines.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)And I'm hoping I'm having an honest and respectful discussion upthread -
I think it's just too much for the community.
Perhaps it would be best if we asked Skinner and Co. to disband the African American group until after the midterms and supress all discussions pertaining to black Americans until Mid November.
My greatest fear is someone reads something you or me or a few others have written - and recall it on election day.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)Just a little bit's enough . . .
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Maybe these issues just aren't importane enough to discuss.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Hell, I fear being banned for simply calling progressives whiny, even if I am not saying it to one in particular which I would never do...
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)like they do in all midterms.
Why didn't blacks and Latinos turn out? The Swarm insists it's because of some obscure blogger trashing Obama, but surely this voting bloc isn't that... malleable? We're told over and over that Obama needs a Democratic Congress to advance his "progressive" agenda, did they not understand this? And which is it? Progressive good, or progressive bad?
Will blacks and Latinos turnout in November? What are you doing to get them registered, and will you get them to the polls?
7962
(11,841 posts)had he run. He was VERY popular at that time and I think he would have waxed Bush. All this was before he was lied to and used by Cheney.
And regarding what you said in an earlier post about your dad wanting to live long enough to see the Clintons out of politics.......I dont know how old he was when he died, but I think we still have a ways to go before that happens!!
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)That was never going to happen - i.e. Powell. Simply no support from the base.
Did you know there was serious talk of him in 1996? And no go - because he wouldn't play the Dominionist Games. Even then - Dole - who is now probably considered a Democrat/Liberal by the party base had to fight to get that nomination.
They were put on watch in 1992 by Buchanan when Erik Prince split from his sister Betsy Devos on who he would support. It was young folks - people in my age group . . . on the other side of the aisle. Get in line with this extreme beliefs or we split.
It's funny - those folks are now all at the helm in that party in terms of financing their campaigns. The Gen Xers and late Boomers. . .
Dad was 70 (just turned it) in August 2011 - but he was of the mindset that old guys like him needed to get out of our way. He almost sounded like Poitier in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner when he would start ranting and raving about how we need to look to younger people to solve our problems. That was ONE reason he liked Obama - even though he really felt it should have been someone like Harold Ford who he was more politically aligned with. Obama represented youth and energy. Anyway in his mind - he would have liked to have seen that(Clinton whale on Newt) . You never took anyone speaking about any woman that way. He had zero tolerance for that bullshit!
The dominionists had taken over by the 1996 election and part of the key appeal of Bush (why he beat McCain) was his "I'm a fuck up but asked Jesus to forgive me and I'm born again" beliefs. They like that - the Dominionists.
If only Powell had played their little Christian Dominionist Games. Perhaps? But he never could have beat Clinton in 1996. No way. No how. That wasn't happening. Sorry - but it wasn't.
7962
(11,841 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)view, that Obama's achievements translated to, see..we're done! Nice slimy way to avoid
so many persistent issues regarding racism in the US.
Sad really..but not surprising and he is absolutely not alone.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Looking at congress proves that.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)sheshe2
(83,355 posts)Thanks for posting.
Signed,
sheshe2 (white person here~)
liberal N proud
(60,302 posts)Not all white people think like that, but ignorant people think like that.
rustbeltvoice
(427 posts)It is true. People do not want to be reminded about it. And the article was a mild presentation on the premise, it did not veer into an extreme accusation, or into partisan terminology. I don't know the history of argument on this topic on Democratic Underground, but the blow back seems overdone.
Furthermore, the point exists and existed about other groups. After John Kennedy was elected president, people said there was no more prejudice against Catholics in the US, and would anger over suggestion that there was. Because a barrier has been broken, or particular exceptions have broken the general rule, the premise is not destroyed; but there are now precedents where that rule has been broken, and may lead to its further decay.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The headline is an attention grabber, but i think they did that on purpose.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)I can remember all the articles after Obama's election on how we're living in a new 'post-racial society' and thinking it was a bunch of bs.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)As we can see they hated on him the whole time. I remember the 'terrorist fist jab' thing like it was yesterday.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Unless it's that, again, the word "some" would be necessary. (roll eyes)
But we see this assertation here. "Beyonce (or Oprah or whoever) has a lot of money THEREFORE . . . "
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Conservative, like that so they would know. But you're right, we see it here all the time.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)They need to see/read WHO is saying it.
The real discussion should be - Bennett is at it again. He's pushing his nonsense and this meme. And everyone on the Left needs to be aware that this asshat is out there spouting nonsense again.
But if they don't want to acknowledge it - perhaps it's not important to them to know what our opposition is up to.
For me - I want to know everything they are up to. Everything.
It helps with offense - which is always the best defense.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Now i will just start bolding key words.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)And, I'm afraid, it's not a predilection limited to white people.
I was stunned when I heard Morgan Freeman make similar comments. Because he made it through, he is proof that systemic racism does not exist.
So, he's become a little darling of all the right-wing bloggers. He thinks he's proof that income inequality doesn't exist. Race does not affect income. He thinks Black History month is ridiculous. I can go on and on.
There are no words, but it is bound to happen for those who have rare talents that are marketable. I just don't understand how he can portray characters who have had serious obstacles thrown in their faces, and be this obtuse in his real life.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Gets on my nerves!
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)We must never ever criticize Bill Cosby!
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)you loathe? Really? Freeman and Cosby are able see clearly what many miss and that is self empowerment is of utmost importance.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)the thread title and article is about race. And the discussions is about race.
I will continue to discuss what is relevant to the thread. If you don't want a discussion then maybe the internet is not for you.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This is the only thing you and me can't do.sorry.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)At another site - mostly young black women under the age of 30 over there.
He's been relegated to the "New Black" heap along with Beyonce, Kanye, Wesley Snipes, - oh I could go on and on and on.
And now with Bennett's remarks - I finally understand what those young women mean by 'New Black' - those folks who believe Bennett (think Allen West) is absolutely correct.
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)I remember hearing some controversial things about Lena Horne.
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)They have an interesting thread over there about her.
But not Ruby Dee or Kerry Washington. Hmmm . . .
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)And probably not Lenny Kravitz. Now, if Kravitz follows the tracks of Cosby and Morgan Freeman, it will kill me.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/13/lenny-kravitz-black-and-white-america_n_1009114.html
JustAnotherGen
(31,688 posts)He's good people!
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)Thank you for that.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Really? Lenny is something. Wooooo.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I thought it would be a big deal that the President was black. But no, the president simply got judged more harshly than a whet President would. It goes all the way to the top and it's far from over. At least it is no longer legal in most cases to discriminate, but when it comes to evaluating performance, etc. the black person still has to do five times as much to get one fifth the credit. Look at them making a drama of this ordinary POW exchange.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Didn't we exchange pow's for him? Or am i crazy and it was someone else?
treestar
(82,383 posts)or the idiocy to come out and criticize the President (while guilty of being black) for something of which any white President could do the same thing and it would be OK.
I'm convinced the people who don't like Obama's handling of that would, had he handed it the way they now claim he should have, say the same exact thing and he should have handled it the way he is now.
I sometimes think it will only be gone when the nightmare of the white supremacists happens. There is more and more intermarriage and white genes are recessive. The majority of the world population will that is nonwhite will get bigger and bigger. I say this as a white, it seems like white people refuse to let go of it. Maybe it's the older generation still - of which McCain is a part, and it will be better in the next couple of generations.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I like how you said it.
IronLionZion
(45,264 posts)I don't have the clip handy but he was sharing how many people in his life growing up tried to discourage him from science. So many told him to try something "blacker" (paraphrasing) which included many teachers, family, and other black people. He said how many kids would have heard that and got discouraged and believed it? A minority has to fly to get where a white person can walk to.
I've noticed so many white people, especially white liberals, tell their children to aim high, you can do anything you put your mind to, go after what you want, etc. And that is quite the opposite in other cultures.
Even now in my career "my people" (Indian) are really not morally supportive much and it can be very discouraging and limiting. It sucks that some cultures are self-limiting to pigeon hole their people into a few specific fields while white people can do anything with no limits.
I know this was a bit off topic, but I think about it a lot.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)People kept trying to get me to be a CNA. Um, no. I hate germs and get paranoid. They even told me that lots of black women do it and i was made for it. No. I was not. I am better with Administrative tasks and accounting.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I have a friend who is worried about her grandson because he is trying to pursue a career as a Rap musician. We agreed that when young Black men search for success, so many see their opportunities for greatness to be limited to entertainment and athletics.
Ben Carson and Herman Cain hold themselves up as an exception do to their considerable personal talents. At the same time spouting the white elitist talking points about other Blacks.
Why don't young Black men get the impression that they can achieve greatness without fame? Architecture, engineering, various scientific fields don't seem to be a part of what they see as successful careers regardless of their talents and interests. Where are the "colorblind" mentors that are available to white men and women?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)There is indeed a problem with damage to culture as well as racism: even if all the racism were to magically disappear overnight(which it sadly won't ever totally do), the cultural residue would require decades of repair.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)the night Obama was elected how many people said as much - that racism was on its way out.
Boy was that ever not true. We found out just how deep the racism is (although maybe it was just me who was incredibly naïve...I never believed racism was over because of Barack Obama, but I did think it was a much bigger step forward than it turned out to be...I'm certain no black person was as naïve as I was...plus being Canadian, I didn't understand how much racism permeated American society. I've been really shocked at what has happened in the last 6 years).
I've actually seen this conversation play out in my own family. My SIL is half black, and grew up in a predominantly white town. She is definitely considered 'successful'. The only other black kid in her school is a famous NHL hockey player. People in my family have pointed out how that because of the success of these 2 people, somehow it means racism doesn't exist here in Canada. I'm like, really??
I think, if Hillary is elected, we will find the same sentiment that women have somehow 'made it'. It's odd how people think if one person has 'made it' then everyone has. We even see that dynamic with poverty - one person who grew up poor becomes a billionaire and somehow it's expected that everyone has that same chance. It's such crap.
Anyway, good article.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Great insight, i don't know much about racism in Canada, i just assumed it was like here in AK. Natives Alaskans seem to take more of the heat up here and the stereotypes are out of control.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Yes, a lot of stereotypes but it's definitely improved since I was a kid, noticeably so. I think it's because they teach tolerance and multiculturalism in the schools now. Unfortunately, Canadian aboriginals take most of the heat here too. So yeah, it's probably pretty similar overall. There IS s a large rural/urban divide. I live in a suburb that is not very diverse, but I'm a few minutes drive away from a major city where, if I go to the mall, I am the minority. I've lived in more northern communities that either mostly aboriginal, or were totally white. There, the racism is far more pronounced than where I currently live.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)If we are to be honest we have all heard this very sentiment expressed .... be it from friends, acquaintances, co-workers, the news media, political pundits ... I am at a loss as to why some are disputing the authenticity of this thought thread in our society.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)fishwax
(29,146 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)We have a political party based on racism, teaparty and republicans.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Harming the poor to help the rich get richer.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and that this is a long, long established fact. Here is Bennett from 2005, in case anyone has forgotten: "I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you cold abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down...that would be an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky."
In 1997 he went around saying this: "Homosexuality takes 30 years off your life."
He is a reprehensible person. I am always sad to see he is still quoted anywhere, by anyone, about anything.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)nyabingi
(1,145 posts)echelons of in terms of riches, they have to be exceptionally talented and skillful at whatever it is they are doing because the range of critique they are going to experience is much greater should they under-perform.
These people would be the exceptions not only as Black people, but as people in general.
Good article and interesting study.
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)can someone please explain to me how Don Thompson became CEO of a company as huge as McDonalds? Be specific.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)honestly answer the question? Why not? How do you think Don Thompson got to be CEO of McDonalds? Simple honest question.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)doesn't answer the question. It only proves the point I'm trying to make.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It is the point of the piece and you should read it again because you missed the point very hard.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)Still no one willing to answer the question? It's a really simple question.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And that there are systemic racial discrimination manifesting it's self in lower wages, police harrasment, and that thise issues need to be resolved to reach parity. Why should Blacks continue to liv in a Never ending depression, just because some blacks got rich.
You are making no sense to me at all with this demonstration of the op.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)I opted not to engage in conversation in any meaningful way with that poster, because in this day and age, one would need to actually choose to be ignorant (willful ignorance) in order to not see the point the author was making ... or hold beliefs and opinions that I find unworthy of my energy.
Hiram Rhodes Revels (a black man) was elected to the US senate (Mississippi) in 1870, using the logic implied by this sub-thread, that obviously means that racism ended in Mississippi in 1870 ... which is, of course, as ridiculous as citing the successes of a few black Americans (some extraordinary successes) as evidence of the end of racism in the US.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And now i just found out we don't need to worry about that because of Ray Kurzweil.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)Which is why I usually don't engage
Response to etherealtruth (Reply #189)
Post removed
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Only proves the OP is correct about "some" Duers too.
Just WOW.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)an anomaly? How did he come to be CEO of McDonalds?
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Demonstrating a number of things all of which constitutes a body of evidence that there is clear, systemic racism present in the economic and legal machine of this country.
Look at the prevalence of economic hardship among persons of color. Look at the geographical distribution of persons of color among specific communities which are renowned for being economic and criminal wastelands.
Also, look at what happens to persons of color in job and school interviews when all other factors are accounted for. They are overlooked and discarded at rates not even remotely experienced by the white community.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)not all, but many. Don Thompson's success doesn't change what happens to that many.
Racism created the segregated poor neighborhoods with inadequate schools that prevents many black kids from getting the necessary education and skills to be successful. This racism was official US policy until the late '60s. We are living with the historical legacy of that, as poverty tends to repeat itself, and those poor inner city neighborhoods are still segregated.
Don Thompson's grandmother got him out of that poor Chicago neighborhood and moved him to Indianapolis. From his bio it is suggested she was a powerful positive influence in his life, but the details of how she did it are not there. She guided his life all the way through Purdue and a special engineeriing program for minorities. Not all people have role models like this, particularly among stressed families in poor circumstances.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-23/site/ct-biz-0323-harris-confidential-20120323_1_cabrini-green-olivet-community-center-don-thompson
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)Of the 46 million people living in poverty in America in 2010, the U.S. census revealed that 31 million were white. Ten million were black. Of the 49 million people without health insurance coverage, 37 million were white; 8 million were African-American. The face of poverty in America is overwhelmingly white, but as a 2009 study on children in poverty explained, the white American poor, especially those in rural areas, are forgotten.
Mr. Thompson rose above it despite the obstacles. Very few people have role models like Mr. Thompsons grandmother black or white.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Mr. Thompson rose above it despite the obstacles. Very few people have role models like Mr. Thompsons grandmother black or white.
and few people without role models escape poverty. There is no one to show them how to do it.
What was your point?
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Which is why they use absolute figures rather than proportional ones.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)There's your role model. Same as mine. Nothing holding us back but ourselves.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)What in the world are you talking about? What is your point, anyway?
It is not a question of holding ourselves back. It is a question of being held back by horrible life circumstances and racist discrimination that created those circumstances.
Since you like to misrepresent poverty in this country, here are the percentages of poverty in different racial/ethnic populations, which displays the heritage of racism:
The poverty rate for all persons masks considerable variation between racial/ethnic subgroups. Poverty rates for blacks and Hispanics greatly exceed the national average. In 2010, 27.4 percent of blacks and 26.6 percent of Hispanics were poor, compared to 9.9 percent of non-Hispanic whites and 12.1 percent of Asians.
Poverty rates are highest for families headed by single women, particularly if they are black or Hispanic. In 2010, 31.6 percent of households headed by single women were poor, while 15.8 percent of households headed by single men and 6.2 percent of married-couple households lived in poverty.
http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)Mr. Thompson had that attitude. I wish I had Mr. Thompson's mindset. I too might be successful.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)One doesn't develop either mindset or skills if one does not see possibility, and is only surrounded by failure and unhappiness.
Response to kwassa (Reply #220)
Post removed
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Twice the rate.
And plenty of evidence demonstrates as much as three times the rate. Three fucking times. Can you even conceive the significance of that?
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)Mr. Thompson out of the rut? Do you think maybe he may have had something to do with it?
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)Some rise above it. You'd be surprised how far you can go in spite of it. It's up to you.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Which makes the idiocy of your rhetoric all the more dangerous.
No one here is denying that it is possible for a person of color to succeed. What we are saying, and what systemic racism dictates, is that the system is stacked against persons of color so that the amount of work required to succeed is excessive or extreme. And, going further, that this excessive or extreme work can in the end result in no success at all at a rate not suffered by white persons.
This is a reality and not the manufactured bullshit world you want to believe in. That world, to which you believe, is a lie told by those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. And you've bought into it with all the gusto they've come to expect from a population with immense ego and nothing underneath. Congratulations.
So you can dangle your token black man success story in front of us all you want. But we haven't bought into the lie. So your effort is in vain.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)is a lie? Because you don't want to believe it's possible doesn't make it impossible. He would have never succeeded if he had your attitude.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Where in my post did I say it was impossible?
Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #284)
Post removed
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)So is the face of America. 63% of Americans (200 million, give or take) are white. Only 1 in 8 Americans are black, but 1 in 4 (by your stats above) of those living in poverty are black. 1 in 4.5 of those without health insurance were black. So the percentage of black Americans in poverty or without healthcare is greater than among white Americans, by your own stats. Simply using total numbers without actually checking them against the percentages of the subpopulations is misleading. A greater percentage of blacks live in poverty than the percentage of whites living in poverty.
And the average net worth of black households is something like 1/20th the net worth of white households. It was all the 'up' to 1/10th before the recession, but economic crises drain wealth from the poorest households more strongly than the richer ones.
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)that 1 in 4 out of poverty?
I supposed this man is pure BS lies too.
http://www.chrisgardnermedia.com/
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Thank you for your display of the exact issue the OP discusses, in case someone claims this doesn't really happen.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)successful. No one to blame but myself.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #273)
Post removed
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But implying that the reason black people are less successful than white people - and in this country, in terms of education/income level, they unfortunately are on average - has to do with some mass-level personal deficiency, borders on racism at the very least. By discounting the influence of societal racism, you're essentially implying that black people are in some way inferior to white people, whether that alleged inferiority is genetic or "cultural."
SevenSixtyTwo
(255 posts)I'm saying successful black people have shown that with hard work and the right attitude, societal racism can be overcome. Mr. Thompson won. The hurdle may have been higher for him but he cleared it and went to the top. White people didn't do it for him. The President didn't do it for him. HE did it. More black people need to emulate Mr. Thompson and those like him. That's what will close the ratio gap that seems more important that individual success here. There's nothing I can do about it. I failed even with "white privilege". I don't have what it takes. Mr. Thompson does. Skin color had nothing to do with his success or my failure. We're all the same color between the ears.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Your entire demeanor on this issue is absolutely surreal. It's as if you possess no understanding of history or sociology or psychology or economics or social justice at all.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)of what they're saying. As I said, if one denies the pervasiveness of racism in American culture, then they're implying (whether they realize it or not) that some deficiency inherent in people of color is responsible for the achievement gap.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Generations of entrenched poverty and inequality are one of this country's greatest shames.
alp227
(31,962 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)that a lot of people I thought I knew...turned out to be nothing but base racists. Now I believe racism is on the increase, not decrease. Before Obama was elected, I thought it was on the decline.
People I've known for years and years...telling me they would not vote for a black man (not the word they chose)...it really floored me and made me reevaluate my relationship with a lot of people.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I honestly had hope until the Tea Party, and they spread their shit for so long so easily that their mindset of Obama never doing anything right is just how things are now.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)The racism coming from the Clinton campaign in the 2008 primary is when I decided I would never vote for Clinton. She let her surrogates play the race card with nary a peep (or apology) from her. It was truly disgusting. And now she's going around pretending to be indignant because people are pointing out her political cowardice about gay rights during her hubby's time in office.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)I'd be surprised if you even know who he is:
Absolutely Horrific-The Reginald Denny and Fidel Lopez Beatings
The 1992 Los Angeles riots began at the intersection of Florence and Normandie with two horrific beatings. This is video of both. Btw, I'm disgusted that the police were found innocent of the blatant beating of Rodney King.
Reginald Denny beating
At approximately 6:45 pm, Reginald Oliver Denny, a white truck driver who stopped at a traffic light at the intersection of Florence and South Normandie Avenues, was dragged from his vehicle and severely beaten by a mob of local black residents as news helicopters hovered above, recording every blow, including a concrete fragment connecting with Denny's temple and a cinder block thrown at his head as he lay unconscious in the street. The police never appeared, having been ordered to withdraw for their own safety, although several assailants (the so-called L.A. Four) were later arrested and one, Damian Williams, was sent to prison. Instead, Denny was rescued by an unarmed, African American civilian named Bobby Green Jr. who, seeing the assault live on television, rushed to the scene and drove Denny to the hospital using the victim's own truck, which carried twenty-seven tons of sand. Denny had to undergo years of rehabilitative therapy, and his speech and ability to walk were permanently damaged. Although several other motorists were brutally beaten by the same mob, Denny remains the best-known victim of the riots because of the live television coverage.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1cb_1304689062#qDBGqS9KeY4S7eCE.99
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This just proves the point the author was making even more. I was a bout a mile away from there and i saw cops beating up teenage boys for no reason. White cops do it everyday. They shoot oeople in the back who are cooperating and those people are usually not white. 1 incident during the LA riots does not negate the experiences of millions of black people over 4 centuries.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Feel free to post your experience when you've been arrested.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I was seventeen and stole from the mall. First time. My friend went to youth camp jail, i went home.
She was poor and i spoke perfect proper english. They put her in a cell and fed me italian food. In that situation i was chosen to be the good n**** and she got to be the bad one. It always happens that way.
You had no point.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Doesn't mean you have to blame me.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And what are you being blamed for? Is this article about you personally? If so, i refer you back to this.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025065109
This
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002508442
And this
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5072693
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Mighty proud of it, too! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079813/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Never even saw Valley Girls and i lived in Tarzana.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)You should see it; good movie!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I already talk like that anyway. It pisses some people off and they call me white cheerleader valley girl. See, i get it from both sides. Like Oh my Godz! Whats their damage? LOL!
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Me too! I'm older than you but grew up in the eighties....lots of fun!
kwassa
(23,340 posts)oh, he didn't? Then why did you attempt to make a bizarre and non-existent connection?
I watched the Reginald Denny incident on live TV, and I also lived through the LA riots in 1992 first hand.
Denny's own beliefs about the incident are quite different from your representation of them.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Reginald-Denny-Looks-Back-on-the-LA-Riots--149165165.html
Although Denny was targeted because he is white, he said focusing on race in thinking about the riots is foolish and shortsighted.
People seem to forget it was black folks that saved my life, Denny said. On one hand, there were some out there to try to kill me or do me in. On the other hand, they are trying to save me because Im not the enemy, and believe me I am not the enemy.
At the time of the interview 10 years ago, Denny had long since forgiven the men who assaulted him.
He reserved his anger for the politicians and police, whom he said abandoned the city that day.
Where they hell were they? he asked. They were just like, I aint doing nothing.
I agree with Denny. The riot was initially a small, local response to the jury verdict on the police that went out of control because Darryl Gates pulled the LAPD out and away from doing their jobs. The cops just disappeared. "To Serve and Protect", indeed. Gates did the same thing in the Watts riots as a commander in 1968. Cut and run.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)You obviously chose to ignore it.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)You are choosing to lie. Why?
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)If you read my earlier post, this might look familiar to you.
Although Denny was targeted because he is white, he said focusing on race in thinking about the riots is foolish and shortsighted.
People seem to forget it was black folks that saved my life, Denny said. On one hand, there were some out there to try to kill me or do me in. On the other hand, they are trying to save me because Im not the enemy, and believe me I am not the enemy.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)Thank you!
babylonsister
(170,964 posts)There are too many racists down/over here for me to believe that.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They make fun of them with no shame. Then they start on blacks and Samoans, Tongans, Hmong, and on down the list to Mexicans, even though we have very few hispanics.
Warpy
(110,913 posts)Allowing a handful of any disadvantaged class to succeed is meant to convince you that all ugly past discrimination is over, when that's far enough from the truth to be a bald faced lie. Most of the old barriers are still there, even if some of the egregious legal barriers have been overturned. If you've grown up ghettoized (and you don't actually have to live in the inner city to qualify, most ghettos are socioeconomic, not physical), you will instantly be clicked into whatever socioeconomic class bigots think you belong to and that is where you will stay for your whole life no matter how smart you are or how hard you work.
But try not to be swayed by tokenism. Look at how people of color are underrepresented in industry and the halls of power and how overrepresented they are in prison. Look at how women are underrepresented in the class of high wage earners and how overrepresented they are in severe poverty. That's all the proof you need is that tokenism is meaningless when it comes to the struggle disadvantaged people face.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If anyone needs to see how stupid tokenism is they should catch an episode of south park with Token in it.
GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)Real title of study:
If he can do it, so can they: exposure to counterstereotypically successful exemplars prompts automatic inferences.[
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Just in case anyone wants to read it. The headline is not a trick, it is just the yeadline Huffpo chose to use. I do not change headlines.
caraher
(6,276 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)3-4 words, you won't be getting a response from this one.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)The Democratic party used to be about celebrating success,, overcoming obstacles (eg. social barriers) and self empowerment (Woman's rights movement).
Now we have sunk to the low of the Republican party by tearing people down for success by looking at skin color. That is a sad commentary about our society when both Democrats (eg privilege non-sense) and Republicans (entitlement non-sense) both perpetuate self inflicted wounds to the psyche of our own nation.
Inner peace and happiness starts from within and that is where success begins.
Response to bravenak (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Can you stop being the self-appointed race baiter?
Fat chance, just a vain hope.
Reposting an article written by a white woman is race baiting if you're a black woman? Strange you seem to know so much about me without interacting with me.
I hope next time you click on the link.
Response to bravenak (Reply #241)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Am i supposed to feel bad for making you have to read stuff you don't like to read? That's what trash thread is for.
I will not be told by you what i should post about. Stop over noticing what i post about. You do you, i do me. I don't need a net nanny. Mind your'n and i'll tend to mine.
Response to bravenak (Reply #243)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I am enjoying it ever so much. I love this game.
I was going to let this be the last one, but i can see we need to develop more awareness of these issues. I will have to continue until we all have a better understanding of each other.
Response to bravenak (Reply #245)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)When those of a subaltern group speak up about issues that they care about, don't call them a race baiter or accuse them of playing the race card. It minimizes the issue and has the effect of shutting the converstion down and ensuring that nothing is accomplished.
There is a whole list of things we can do to help the situation and make it fair for everyone regardless of color. But, pretending that it was all in the past and has no effect on today is being disingenuous. It does still affect minorities today in a variety if ways and we need to fix it before we hand it off to our children. Those in the majority today, will one day be in the minority and may in future suffer the effects of systemic racism themselves one day. We need to lay the groundwork to end the biases now and stop sweeping things under the rug and putting them off until kater. We have run out of time.
Now if you want my list, here it is. I have more but we can start with that.
Okay.
1. Schools should be free up to an AA or technical degree. Free Jr. College.
2. Punishment for not violent drug crimes should be and education trade training program and Caltrans ( work program, community service) a small fine to cover court costs, and probation.
3. Voting rights returned as soon as released from jails
4. Better housing programs and end the welfare reform ( it targets the poor)
5. Cash payments for welfare increased to 1500 a month and a minimum wage of 18 per hour.
6. Amnesty for undocumented people and free programs to help new citizens assimilate.
7. Increase of at least 100 percent in funding housing and food programs.
8. Free lunch to all students up to 18 years of age
9. More music education for students
10. Mandatory bilingual education all students must learn a second language
11. End profiling and the suing of departments that engage in it.
12. Review of all criminal cases to find sentence disparities and the lowering of sentences for those who have been violated by the system and reparation made to the victims of profiling
13. Veteran housing
14. More accessible senior housing and assistance for the disabled
15. Wage reviews to determine if pay disparities are occurring. If they are payments must be made by employers to the employees they shafted.
16. Taxes on incomes of more that one million at 50 percent, more that a billion at 80 percent . No one gets a billion dollars that fast with out being a crook.
17. Capital gains tax rise and a transaction tax.
18. Give back the native americans 20 percent of the land available and owned by the government for their use and control. There should be a contiguous mass so they can have a sovereign nation or it should be negotiated with the tribes.
19. Reparations to Blacks and natives in the form of cash payments, and any hispanics that were discriminated and a review of reparations to asian american to see if the were repaid in full plus interest.
20. Review of death row inmates and new trials should be easier to get.
21. No more all white juries judging minorities. They have shown bias many many times and innocent black men were murdered by the state for crimes they did not commit. ( everyone should get a review since we don't know what the fuck we are doing)
22. End the drug war and put in place centers for user to purchase their drugs from a pharmacist. They must be combined with in patient and out patient rehabilitation centers, with a sober living component in town. Must watch a film on the dangers before you are prescribed meds and must have a purchase limit. ( some substances should remain banned, some should be regulated)
I have much more but i thought this was getting long.
Cha
(295,929 posts)19. Reparations to Blacks and natives in the form of cash payments, and any hispanics that were discriminated and a review of reparations to asian american to see if the were repaid in full plus interest
The jury has spoken on the guy who didn't like what you were saying very much..
And, he's had his name removed so the jurors who gave it a Hide were right on.. #7 here..
On Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:11 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Not at all!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5096357
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Personal attack, this person appears to have entered this thread for the sole purpose of launching them.
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jun 14, 2014, 02:22 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Talk about shit-stirring.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing in the least wrong with this post. Goofy idea, alerting.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree "personal attack" and the poster already has one egregious post hidden. Time to give it a rest.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I like the idea of giving back at least some land, they got ripped off.
Cha
(295,929 posts)their land back, too. I don't blame them.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)All these folks telling you to stop making them read stuff they don't like. It's like they have zero self regulation.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)That guy was mad!!!!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I know why, and it's not because this information is new. I posted the reason last week in AA.
Thank you for trying, but it's probably hopeless.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Meaningless generalization" is supported the data of a peer reviewed study, then it is neither meaningless, nor a generalization.
Perhaps you should have read the article, if not the study.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)are so used to starting with an advantage---"at least I'm white"---that they get really shaken when they think that advantage may be taken from them. And so, they overreact the other way. "How much are those Blacks going to demand?" becomes their new complaint. "I'm not a racist. I just want the same chance my dad had." Ignoring the fact that their dad had it good, because part of his wealth came from the underpaid labor of a bunch of minorities and women. They know that they are losing something of tremendous economic value and it scares them shitless.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That couldn't be the case because they never owned slaves! Never mind the Coates piece detailing the systemic advantages, e.g., governmental programs and societal barriers imposed on the "others. "
Baitball Blogger
(46,576 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...thrown out with the obvious goal of sowing racial division within the Democratic party. This OP is racist IMHO. And don't give me your standard, "I didn't write the article" bullshit, because you obviously agree with it and you are the one who went out and found it and chose to post it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bill Bennett is a conservative, and that is who the article was referring to.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)When you throw out "White People Think" you are including ALL white people. You know that.
You are not fooling anyone.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You should have clicked on the link and read the article and let the author know how you felt about her article.
I noticed that everything i post makes you angry. You should try not to notice me so much.
Response to bravenak (Reply #304)
Hissyspit This message was self-deleted by its author.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)You say the same thing to anyone who calls you out on your little game. Every OP you post is an attack on white Democrats. Perhaps if you didn't constantly attack people based on their skin color, you would get a more positive response. The people who call out your OPs are not the problem.
This sort of racism has no place on a Democratic forum.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You should stop with the personal attacks.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:19 AM - Edit history (1)
If you cannot handle being called out on your OPs then stop posting them. Or reword them so they are not insulting to Democrats. You should stop with the blanket attacks on loyal Democrats and their families. It's shameful.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You need to stop with the personal attacks.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)I'm not offended or annoyed in the slightest, and I'm a middle aged white guy. CONSERVATIVE and REPUBLICAN whites are the ones who need to look at their feelings and white privilege. I KNOW I have white privilege, and I'm all for minorities being on a level playing field with whites.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This is about William Bennett and conservatives like him. I just really hate the guy.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)It never has. Probably never will(at least not in America, anyway).
"and I'm all for minorities being on a level playing field with whites."
So am I. But you can genuinely believe this without buying into the literal privilege wackadoodle.....and I'll just leave it at that.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Apparently, so do some "liberals" and "Democrats" that post to DU.
Response to bravenak (Reply #310)
Post removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This article is NOT about you. I do NOT know you, and NEVER think about you before i post.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Nuff said...
Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It is clear that that poster believe that it IS about them ... perhaps because they can relate to/recognize themselves in the study ' s ffindings.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Maybe thats what it is.
alp227
(31,962 posts)Often, studies will be reported as generalizations - doesn't mean ALL of a group being studied should be generalized (whether people of a certain race, animals of a certain class, people in an economic class, people in a certain county, etc.) - the reporting just reflects the results of the study.
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 15, 2014, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)
I have no reason to feel defensively about a headline like this. Why do you?
I also known I have seen the very attitude described in the OP. People insist Beyoncé or Oprah are examples that show prove that racism isn't an issue and even that white people are more oppressed. The fact that anyone thinks racism against whites is any way equivalent to treatment of people of color shows just how invested they are in maintaining a racially stratified society.
Any question that whiteness doesn't equate with superiority is an outrage to those invested in silencing discussion of racism in order to keep people of color subjugated. The same goes with those determined to control the language people of color can use to talk about racism. Don't mention privilege because it hurts the feelings of the perpetually self entitled, and lord knows nothing can be more important than egos of those who consider themselves superior simply by virtue of being white and male, a sense of superiority so absolute that feel they have the right to control all political debate on a public message board.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)We see the Oprah and Beyonce examples; but let's not forget about the most prevalent "racism is over" frame ... "we have a Black man as president ... and we voted for him; therefore, racism no longer exists. "
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This personal attack is just bizarre, especially on a liberal board. This is really OTT, disruptive and inappropriate.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 15, 2014, 01:30 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: In my opinion, AgingAmerican is a Troll and needs to find Discussionist. I vote to Hide It.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There is an element of truth here. I have seen other posts that arouse my suspicions
and make me curious of Bravenak's presence on this board.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post is on the money. The alert is offensive.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: My take on the OP was that the conservative author just doesn't get it. Inappropriate personal attack/accusation.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Calling a poster racist is about as nasty as you can get. If you make such a charge you damn well better be able to back it up. Poster didn't so I believe it should be hidden-it isn't worthy of being discussed.
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)BainsBane
(53,003 posts)That is divisive. Forcing the majority of the population to remain silent isn't divisive. Instead, allowing people of color and women to speak in public is divisive. Becoming angry that someone posts about a Republican like Bill Bennett, and siding with him over fellow Democrats, is in my view divisive. How can that be about unity of the Democratic Party?
Here's a basic fact. Snowden, Hillary Clinton, drug policy, guns, and every other issues that Democrats are divided by prompt no concern. Rather, what cannot be tolerated is a perspective of people of color to be voiced in public. "Unity" requires they stay in their place, just like women who dare to think rape and violence matter.
As others on this board have pointed out many times, division along racial lines exists already. What you and others object to is the view from the other site of that divide. That anyone can get so agitated over the very small number of people of color on this site says a great deal.
Your version of unity is not in fact unity but exclusion of non-white male voices, one that privileges a RW like Bill Bennett over members of this site who care about racism. The majority demographic of the Democratic Party is women and people of color, yet for some reason some here on DU insist that majority not be allowed to speak in public. Rather the only acceptable concerns are those set by the demographic that most reliably votes Republican. Anyone outraged at the existence and voices of people of color and women doesn't have enough in common with someone like me to be divided from. That you think the majority has no right to speak and you take up in support of Bill Bennett over a fellow Democrat tells me you have no respect for the party, liberalism, or the majority of the American public.
spanone
(135,637 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I mean, I don't believe in all this "white privilege" stuff myself(well, I used to, but that was before I joined this site), but you don't need to, to understand that America is not really "100% post racial", as some misguided people may believe.....
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Yeah, I mean, it's fairly obvious we've come a long way since the days of Wilson, Harding, et al., but we still have a ways to go. But the edifice IS cracking.....in fact, that's why so many of the Teabaggers have come out swinging; they know their time is running short. May it be so.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Well said!
Julie
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The weird part is, the ones who are most likely to think that Obama's victories prove this isn't a racist country anymore are the ones who STILL don't accept that Obama won fair and square.
Go figure.
Response to bravenak (Original post)
mia This message was self-deleted by its author.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My husband has to tell people he's black and some still don't believe him. I fully admit that i have it much easier than some and have no difficulty finding work, but i still feel when all eyes are on me. And i know why.