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Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:29 AM Jun 2014

I was thinking about Iraq and the NSA

Many times while discussing the NSA and CIA we have been told that Snowden screwed up the ability to gather Foreign Intelligence. Many of us have talked about the lack of intelligence coming out of foreign nations that the NSA/CIA have ever acted on, the whole not one terrorist attack thwarted thing.

I've been wondering about something. Somehow ISIS managed to gather enough forces to overthrow the Government of Iraq, to march through city after city, sweeping nearly a million people before them. Neither the Iraqi intelligence agencies, nor the American, nor presumably the British or other "Allies" were aware of it.

So what the hell are the NSA/CIA doing if they are completely unaware that the Terrorists have formed an army and recruited and trained enough people to take over a country? We're not talking about ten guys in a basement with no cellphones anywhere near them. We're talking about an army. Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of soldiers, and nobody knew anything about it?

If anything this demonstrates that the NSA and CIA are not doing their jobs. How many failures are we going to tolerate?

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I was thinking about Iraq and the NSA (Original Post) Savannahmann Jun 2014 OP
Yes, but they know what you posted on Facebook! Atman Jun 2014 #1
Too busy worrying about you and I madokie Jun 2014 #2
That may well be true. Savannahmann Jun 2014 #3
Oh of course its President Obama's fault madokie Jun 2014 #4
Perhaps I misstated. Savannahmann Jun 2014 #5
how it really works onethatcares Jun 2014 #8
i wonder where the hell onethatcares Jun 2014 #6
That's easy. From our good ally, Saudi Arabia. (nt) scarletwoman Jun 2014 #7
My guss is they knew all about ISIS, they just didn't expect the Iraqi army to run Quixote1818 Jun 2014 #9

Atman

(31,464 posts)
1. Yes, but they know what you posted on Facebook!
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:43 AM
Jun 2014

And they tracked you on your last trip to the mall. Priorities, my friend!

madokie

(51,076 posts)
2. Too busy worrying about you and I
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:48 AM
Jun 2014

The intent was to keep an eye on malcontents such as these but somewhere along the way the NSA took a wrong turn. I think it was somewhere along the bush/cheney boulevard where that happened.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
3. That may well be true.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 03:20 PM
Jun 2014

But President Obama has been in charge for five years. One would think that sometime in those five years President Obama or one of his appointees would have figured out that the NSA and CIA were utterly ignorant of what was going on in the Middle East. Some foreign intelligence gathering capability we have going on here.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
4. Oh of course its President Obama's fault
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 03:35 PM
Jun 2014

I should have known that
After all he IS the be all in all things wrong in this world

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
5. Perhaps I misstated.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 03:52 PM
Jun 2014

Allow me to try again. Let's try a bit of analogy if I can. Let's say you own a company. You hire me to manage it because the previous manager has screwed things up royally. Perhaps even beyond all recognition. Now, for the first while, I am not responsible for the failures, because I am still trying to get things turned around. Obviously I need time to do so, and being reasonable, you would give me that time.

Five years, President Obama has been in charge for five years. Now, either he doesn't know, or doesn't care what the NSA/CIA is up to. I can believe either possibility, but I prefer the first one. In that case, the NSA/CIA is busy feeding him a ton of BS, and he hasn't yet realized how deep the BS is.

We missed an army. Not a bunch of yahoo's hanging out at a coffee shop talking shit. Not a bunch of idiots posting nonsense on the web about the upcoming revolution. But we missed an entire army. One so powerful, so well equipped, so well trained that they are blowing through the assembled police and Iraqi Army personnel like it was little more than a theoretical exercise. Like playing a video game on the easiest setting, of course you'll win, you're ten times more powerful than any opponent the game can throw at you.

President Obama trusts those who serve in those organizations. I say he does, and it appears obvious to me that he does. My question is why? We know they have not prevented a single terrorist attack. They have not given him information that should have been painfully obvious. Nobody is asking the question, why didn't we know about ISIS before now? Why didn't we find out that this enormous army existed, and was a threat before they took Mosul?

I'm not saying that everything is President Obama's fault. I am saying that after five years, he should have a feeling about the information coming out of the NSA/CIA. Because obviously, none of that information is worth the paper it's printed on. This isn't a lone nut who managed to slip past security and attack a train depot. This isn't a moron on a plane with a shoe bomb. This is an army. They should have been seen on satellite overheads. Somebody should have noticed that sixty thousand meals a day were being consumed by these guys. But we were caught unawares, again, and not something small.

One could almost understand how we missed the Boston Bombers. One could almost understand how we missed the underwear bomber. One could even understand the other things we've missed. These are small groups or individuals. No net could be tight enough to prevent one or two guys slipping through it without reverting to some sort of KGB checkpoints at every ten miles along every road in the nation. But an army. An army is hard to understand.

I'd like to think that President Obama is asking embarrassing questions of the intelligence agencies. But I haven't heard anything along those lines yet. If I blame President Obama, it's because he still appears to trust those who have shown that they are utterly incompetent and useless at doing anything that their charter says they are supposed to. The NSA/CIA needs to stop worrying about every idiot who is driving around with a kilo of pot in his trunk and trying to figure out how to use parallel construction to get them, and start worrying about huge armies of radicals who are trying to take over a country. Because the NSA/CIA is obviously too busy trying to send out clever tweets about themselves than they are about actually doing their jobs and advising the President about the huge Army currently marching across Iraq damn near as fast as the American Army did in 2003. The forces of ISIS may even break our record on how fast a country can be overwhelmed.

I hope this explains my thoughts on this a little better. I hope you understand what I am feeling and thinking about it. My respect for President Obama has not diminished in any way.

onethatcares

(16,133 posts)
8. how it really works
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 04:20 PM
Jun 2014

war is coming to a close, war machine wants more money to buy another three islands and a nice barbecue set with an umbrella, enemy appears out of no where, media screams about defending democracy and freedom, war machine laughs all the way to the three new islands and some great bar be cue.

scenario number two.

minions start to wonder where their tax dollars are going because they aren't seeing anything for them except for war machine and politically connected people getting richer and buying three islands and a nice barbecue set with an umbrella. Media which is owned by the war machine and politically connected scream about democracy and freeom. War machine and politically connected people laugh all the way to their three islands and open a great beer under the new umbrella while eating some great barbecue and corn on the cob.

scenario number three.

We the people are a bunch of suckers and P.T. Barnum had it right.

Sorry, I don't have any good news.

onethatcares

(16,133 posts)
6. i wonder where the hell
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 04:13 PM
Jun 2014

they are getting the money for the weapons. Or better yet, who is providing said weapons.

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
9. My guss is they knew all about ISIS, they just didn't expect the Iraqi army to run
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 04:23 PM
Jun 2014

Take ISIS' victory in Mosul: 30,000 Iraqi troops ran from 800 ISIS fighters. The Iraqi government has made this tension worse by persecuting Sunnis and through other missteps. Iraqi troops ran because they simply didn't want to fight and die for this government.
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