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magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:33 AM Jun 2014

The most common mistake that I find many people make in business

Last edited Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:14 AM - Edit history (1)

Updated to remove gender bias. On reflection what I realized is that the woman in my life stood out because there have been more of them and several of them have been violent. The men in my life have been more passive-aggressive, which I find harder to pin down and describe.

I'm 60, female, single and have worked to support myself since I became an adult. I have had male and female coworkers and male and female bosses.

Until I owned my own home, I've had male landlords and I've had female landlords. And my first home was a condo, with a female complex manager.

Boundaries. The most common mistake that I find that people in business make is they do not understand or respect other people's personal boundaries.

The one's who do not understand this seem to think they are everybody's (nightmare) parent/grandparent. They meddle in their personal business, they violate their personal space, they wheedle for personal information...and then they use what they find to control.

I'm not saying all people do this. I am saying this strikes me as the most common mistake they make.

Other people have rights to privacy, and to have their personal and private information kept personal and private...including private from you. They have rights to make their own decisions, to raise their own children, to choose their associates.

They have a right to choose *not* to associate with you beyond the strictly business relationship. Just sayin'

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The most common mistake that I find many people make in business (Original Post) magical thyme Jun 2014 OP
sweeping generalizations are almost always a failure. and just because this is what you've cali Jun 2014 #1
I made it very clear it was based on my experience, and that it is what I have found it to be the magical thyme Jun 2014 #2
just a bit harsh. Justice Jun 2014 #11
Perhaps you should read more closely.... CherokeeDem Jun 2014 #24
Glad you included, "not all women", us "not all men" were feeling lonely. dilby Jun 2014 #3
she says she is running a business magical thyme Jun 2014 #5
I am not going to argue that she meddled. dilby Jun 2014 #7
live-in landlords are in a position to meddle, that is for sure magical thyme Jun 2014 #9
He is not live in, he just stops by all the time. dilby Jun 2014 #10
now that's annoying... magical thyme Jun 2014 #22
dilby, I'm so sorry you went through that with your female bosses. I've never had to sleep with a DesertDiamond Jun 2014 #25
I'm essentially left speechless by that part of his experience magical thyme Jun 2014 #33
It happened with two bosses same company when I was in college. dilby Jun 2014 #38
I have also worked the majority of my life and have found the women I work with to be nothing like seaglass Jun 2014 #4
you're fortunate, then. magical thyme Jun 2014 #6
Well I think if you don't share a lot of your personal life or are selective about what you share seaglass Jun 2014 #8
I'm not talking gossip magical thyme Jun 2014 #13
Everything you have described is outside of the norm of professional workplaces. I'm sorry you seaglass Jun 2014 #15
thank you. I think I have also worked in places where behavior was up to professional norm magical thyme Jun 2014 #17
I don't see how any of the behaviors you described related to your initial post about people seaglass Jun 2014 #21
well I did specify *nightmare* mothers/grandmothers magical thyme Jun 2014 #23
Indeed, it is WAY out of the norm. I have worked in professional workplaces all Nay Jun 2014 #36
in the realm of gossip, one issue I've never been able to figure out is magical thyme Jun 2014 #14
Interesting perspective bhikkhu Jun 2014 #12
I think our most common mistake is trying to be too "nice" mainer Jun 2014 #16
I have co-workers and managers who are truly nice magical thyme Jun 2014 #19
You could have gotten the same point across Shankapotomus Jun 2014 #18
that is a good point. you are correct...nt magical thyme Jun 2014 #20
I understand about generalizations, because I used to do that regarding men after having so many DesertDiamond Jun 2014 #26
no landlords and no shared housing in my life any more magical thyme Jun 2014 #29
Prejudiced people will always see stereotypes Android3.14 Jun 2014 #27
Ignore this man Demeter Jun 2014 #30
Amen! Demeter Jun 2014 #28
This ^^^^ is 100% what I was thinking when I wrote the OP magical thyme Jun 2014 #32
Wow, I am sorry for your life experiences. I have had many strong female role models seaglass Jun 2014 #35
A few of the women I've worked for/with have been Holly_Hobby Jun 2014 #31
I'm actually a bit surprised at the characterization of the Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2014 #34
both my parents violated my boundaries magical thyme Jun 2014 #37
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
1. sweeping generalizations are almost always a failure. and just because this is what you've
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:36 AM
Jun 2014

experienced doesn't make your extrapolation valid. at all.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
2. I made it very clear it was based on my experience, and that it is what I have found it to be the
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:39 AM
Jun 2014

the most common mistake.

Not sure what I'm extrapolating here or what the "sweeping generalization" is.

CherokeeDem

(3,709 posts)
24. Perhaps you should read more closely....
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:19 AM
Jun 2014

This was a personal observation not a sweeping pronouncement.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
3. Glad you included, "not all women", us "not all men" were feeling lonely.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:44 AM
Jun 2014

I think I know who you are taking a stab at and I don't think she made a business mistake, she may have just ruined the lives of three people all because she was not satisfied that a single mother of two was not able to scrape by in our sorry ass society.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
5. she says she is running a business
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:52 AM
Jun 2014

and being a landlord is a business. It is a mistake in running a landlord business to meddle in the lives of your tenants. In this situation, she is meddling in her tenant's life, spying on her and conspiring with her roommates against her, in the name of "helping" her.

And I stand by my OP on its own. I can go through all the female bosses I've had and the female landlords I have had. The most common mistake the have made was violating people's personal boundaries. Not all of them made that mistake, but most of them did. Some of them were very astute business people in other ways, but they just couldn't resist overstepping personal boundaries. And the one's that did it, did it consistently.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
7. I am not going to argue that she meddled.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:02 AM
Jun 2014

But I don't know if this is a female problem more so of a crappy landlord problem. My current landlord is a guy who is up in my shit any time I have a woman over, seriously I rent a duplex and he is always asking if some girl who stays the night is living with me so he can screw me on rent. I rent a two bedroom by myself but he wants an extra $50 a month if I have a roommate. And the only issue I have ever run into with female bosses is when I was younger they would force me to sleep with them to keep my job.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
9. live-in landlords are in a position to meddle, that is for sure
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:10 AM
Jun 2014

and so have an extra obligation to resist the temptation. The live-in landlady I had let herself into my apartment, took some of my belongings and conspired with my mother to snoop on me. Creepy to say the least.

I haven't had a live-in landlord to compare. The 3 non-live-in landlords minded their own business. The non-live-in landlady, instead of doing her job, protected a registered sex offender who was harassing me by taking down the mirror he had aimed at my bedroom window and the video camera that he had trained on my car, and then denying that they existed. Thank effing god I have my own house now, with a very private back.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
10. He is not live in, he just stops by all the time.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:14 AM
Jun 2014

The Duplex has me and another renter next door, both units are two bedrooms and my neighbor has a wife and 2 kids and he pays the same amount I do. The difference being he knows how much money I make and has been trying to get me to pay more ever since I moved in.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
22. now that's annoying...
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:58 AM
Jun 2014

I guess he figured if he'd charged more up front you might not have taken the place.

DesertDiamond

(1,616 posts)
25. dilby, I'm so sorry you went through that with your female bosses. I've never had to sleep with a
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

boss, but I've been fired several times for refusing their advances. Or, in one other case, for reporting the advances to the office manager. I hate that anyone has to go through this.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
33. I'm essentially left speechless by that part of his experience
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:31 AM
Jun 2014

Floored me. I did have one boss that expected me to date him and complained about me to the group manager after I explained I don't date people I work with.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
38. It happened with two bosses same company when I was in college.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 05:55 PM
Jun 2014

This was while working at a Marriott, (it was a franchise and not a corporately owned one) one boss was the General Manager and the other was the Front Office manager. They did this to me and another employee who was my age and also in college. It was a great job and worked perfect for my school schedule so I just sucked it up plus back in the 90's no one would have taken me serious.

After I graduated college I went into the technology field and all of my bosses have been men since then so I can't say this is what female bosses are like because I have only had two and I can't judge all women based on their actions.

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
4. I have also worked the majority of my life and have found the women I work with to be nothing like
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:50 AM
Jun 2014

this. I've had male and female mentors, bosses, peers and subordinates and no one acted like a mother/grandmother/father/grandfather. Some did act like children though - one of the reasons I found I do not like managing people.

I have found it really easy to keep my work environments friendly and professional.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
6. you're fortunate, then.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 08:59 AM
Jun 2014

I've had colleagues and co-workers that were excellent. I've had some people who worked for me who acted like children, and some who were excellent.

My managers have been a mixed bag. Some have been excellent, some not so much. But the most common mistake I have seen among the females has been to violate personal boundaries.

It may have to do with the field I was working in, I don't know. If I could do it all again, I would do some things differently for sure.

I have always worked in fields that are referred to as "pink ghettos." I don't know if that has impacted my experience, or how much.

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
8. Well I think if you don't share a lot of your personal life or are selective about what you share
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:08 AM
Jun 2014

and with whom you share it you can avoid a lot of this.

My husband works in a primarily male environment and he despises gossipy stuff yet it happens all the time. It really is not just a female thing.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
13. I'm not talking gossip
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:30 AM
Jun 2014

I'm talking about things like a manager that ordered me -- screaming at the top of her lungs -- to give $70 to the flower fund for a coworker, whose aunt who had died. She also threw things at people while verbally abusing. I witnessed her throw a 5" 3 ring binder and almost hit somebody in the head with it.

I'm talking about a manager that, when I was forced to bring a complaint that I was being stalked by somebody from a different department, instead of telling me who the HR rep was (our HR rep had just been reassigned), laughed in my face...and then took it to the stalker, screamed abuse at him and left me to deal with an enraged stalker who no longer followed a consistent pattern.

I'm talking about the manager who used her position to try to force us to go away on camping trips and such with her on weekends. I have reasons to suspect that one may be part of the identity theft ring at HP.

I'm talking about the manager who insisted on knowing my birthday -- which is none of her damn business -- over and over and over again, refusing to accept no for an answer. And then when I finally compromised and let her know the month with the agreement that they would leave me the eff alone, couldn't violate that agreement fast enough.

I'm talking about the manager who was fired because she was using her position to force her team to go out drinking with her after hours for "team meetings."

I'm talking about the manager who decided to rearrange all our cubicles -- over a weekend, on her own. She lost some of my stuff in the process. Not to mention it was a lot like the twilight zone to come in, find walls where there used to be doors or aisles, and not be able to find our offices.

I'm talking about the landlady who would let herself into my apartment (and stole some of my books) to spy on me for my mother.

I'm talking about the condo manager who destroyed evidence against a registered sex offender who was harassing me.

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
15. Everything you have described is outside of the norm of professional workplaces. I'm sorry you
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:42 AM
Jun 2014

had to work in this environment. I have never worked in a place where any of this would have been tolerated.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
17. thank you. I think I have also worked in places where behavior was up to professional norm
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:49 AM
Jun 2014

but these are the standouts. I think the rest of the memories (of normal behavior places) have simply faded from my memory due to the standouts being so crazy.

All I know for sure at this point is I can't retire fast enough and I never want to live in any kind of shared housing again...

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
21. I don't see how any of the behaviors you described related to your initial post about people
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:58 AM
Jun 2014

acting like mothers/grandmothers and getting into personal business. Seems to me that your environment was abusive so maybe you could re-word your post about women's biggest mistakes in business being verbally and physically abusive. Not that I agree with that either.

I do get you on the retirement thing, I can't wait either but for me it is more about the work than the environment (I work at home so gossip and abuse is at a minimum).

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
23. well I did specify *nightmare* mothers/grandmothers
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:02 AM
Jun 2014

not the ordinary ones. And not all of them have been verbally and physically abusive. The passive-aggressive are the hardest to pin down and describe. Those are the ones that were "just trying to help" and "just being nice" while they are actively sabotaging you.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
36. Indeed, it is WAY out of the norm. I have worked in professional workplaces all
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 12:16 PM
Jun 2014

my life and have not experienced any of this. Anyone who demonstrated this sort of behavior would have been dismissed immediately in any of the companies I worked for.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
14. in the realm of gossip, one issue I've never been able to figure out is
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:38 AM
Jun 2014

that if you don't provide personal information, I've found the gossipers speculate, make stuff up, spread the lies and at least some people seem to believe and act on those lies. Which potentially creates messes as well.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

Right now I hve 2 part time jobs, both with female managers. Both companies are in some financial trouble, but at one the boss is secure in her job and at the other the boss is not secure in her job. The insecure one uses meddling (in the guise of relationship-building I'm sure) as a tool for passive-aggressive bullying. She creeps me out (along with the rest of the team...or at least those who haven't quit or been fired just yet) and frankly I feel nauseous going to work there. I can barely tolerate being in the same room with her at this point. That's probably why I'm particularly sensitive to this issue right now.

bhikkhu

(10,708 posts)
12. Interesting perspective
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:28 AM
Jun 2014

I can't say that I've come across it myself, but I've mostly worked in very male-dominated places. The one female manager I had I never got to know very well. But inasmuch as there are gender roles, and as people tend to behave as they are requested to behave, that's probably very true.

You boil it down clearly to just a couple of things to be aware of, which is good observation!

mainer

(12,013 posts)
16. I think our most common mistake is trying to be too "nice"
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:47 AM
Jun 2014

and it gets in the way of successfully competing in certain cutthroat industries.

But at the end of our lives, "niceness" results in real friendships, even if it means we're less successful. I'd opt for the friends.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
19. I have co-workers and managers who are truly nice
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:56 AM
Jun 2014

one right now that if I were to move, I'd love to have as a close-by neighbor due to shared interests and values.

Some may be trying to be nice, but in a cutthroat environment that becomes a problem when some use the information gleaned through being "nice" as a weapon. Both my current managers are "nice." One uses that "nice" as a weapon. She is now universally hated. Even her most loyal psychophant has at long last had her eyes opened and turned against her.

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
18. You could have gotten the same point across
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jun 2014

without even making a reference to gender at all and it would have served the same purpose of informing people of the kind of behavior you find unacceptable.

DesertDiamond

(1,616 posts)
26. I understand about generalizations, because I used to do that regarding men after having so many
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:34 AM
Jun 2014

negative experiences. I finally realized it was my karma to have those kinds of men in my life, and I've been able to change that pattern. I hope you'll be able to change your pattern with landlords too.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
29. no landlords and no shared housing in my life any more
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

I have my own home, which I bought outright. I immediately started having problems with certain neighbors and a contractor. Those problems are resolved, the most recent one with a harassment and trespassing complaint to the police along with no trespassing signs posted all along the front of my property.

I hate having the signs up, but I have rights too. The neighbor in question trespassed repeatedly, tried to drive my horses into the street when I wasn't home, lured my dogs to his yard with a moose liver, then started "trying to be nice." Bottom line was a couple years ago he floated a ridiculous offer to buy my house at bankrupcty price, and I suspect he's been trying to drive me to bankrupcty ever since.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
27. Prejudiced people will always see stereotypes
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:00 AM
Jun 2014

I've been in business myself, and I have find that women have as wide a variety of business styles as men. This may be your experience, but that is inadequate cover for such blatant misogynist bigotry. I'm sure Clive Bundy was also speaking from his experience when he said, "Let me tell you about the Negro..."
Your viewpoint is unfortunate and if I were a woman, insulting.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
30. Ignore this man
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:11 AM
Jun 2014

who understands nothing about the words he throws about: misogynist, bigotry, insult.

AND who seems unaware that male/female transactions differ markedly from female/female ones.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
28. Amen!
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:09 AM
Jun 2014

Women are not taught to have ego boundaries...everyone violates a female baby's sense of self from an early age: unsolicited comments, indoctrination, physical violence...taught dependency and passivity.

The only models a girl may encounter are pushy women within family and school, building personality cults and cliques.

Even 40 years after the ERA push, there aren't enough good role models.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
32. This ^^^^ is 100% what I was thinking when I wrote the OP
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:28 AM
Jun 2014

but is far more articulate than I was able to manage. Thank you.

seaglass

(8,170 posts)
35. Wow, I am sorry for your life experiences. I have had many strong female role models
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 12:15 PM
Jun 2014

in both my personal and professional life. Or do you consider strong women "pushy?"

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
31. A few of the women I've worked for/with have been
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:16 AM
Jun 2014

threatened by me, for the simple reason I strive to do things correctly the *first* time. I'd much rather work with/for men. At least they don't actively attempt to sabotage and/or steal my work.

Oh, the stories I could tell...

And what you say is true about boundaries. I have very little in common with most women (don't have children, for example) and I'm just not interested. I already have friends. Harsh, I know, but walk a mile in my shoes

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
34. I'm actually a bit surprised at the characterization of the
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 12:09 PM
Jun 2014

men in your life. I think, on the whole, men tend to simply be more aggressive than passive aggressive. Those of us who disapprove of physical violence tend to be a bit more likely to switch to the 'mental violence' of passive-aggressive behaviour.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
37. both my parents violated my boundaries
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 12:49 PM
Jun 2014

but my mother was the outright aggressive one. For example, my eldest sister remembers as a toddler being picked up by her hair and bounced off walls. I remember when I was 6 held down and being beaten until I peed all over myself, and then made fun of for wetting my pants in front of a table full of dinner guests. She went through her violent rages generally every few days.

My father was the passive aggressive one. He physically violated my boundaries either disguised as "play" or, for example, "just" brushing a bit lint on my breast or "just" bursting into the bathroom because I had supposedly failed to "jiggle the handle," etc.

So I probably do have a different perspective on behavior than many or most.

But at work, I have found it has been women who have violated personal boundaries, in passive-aggressive ways. Eg, "I was just trying to help" or "I just wanted to blah, blah, blah" when they are intruding where they do not belong (such as in your personal life).

I have had a few creepy co-workers "office stalk" me, but other than 1 boss who asked me out in my 20s, my male bosses and landlords left me alone and were almost all "straight-shooters." It has been women who have violated personal boundaries, both mine and others.

As someone else wrote above, it usually starts off as wanting to be nice, but many don't seem to know where socially acceptable boundaries are and don't accept "no, thank you" for an answer.

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