Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:18 PM Jun 2014

from the New Yorker - "The Iraq Mess: Place Blame Where It Is Deserved"

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2014/06/the-iraq-mess-place-the-blame-where-it-is-deserved.html

June 13, 2014
The Iraq Mess: Place Blame Where It Is Deserved
Posted by John Cassidy

With Mosul, Iraq’s second-largest city, firmly under the control of a jihadi group so extreme that it was denounced by Al Qaeda; with government forces battling for Tikrit, the birthplace of Saddam Hussein; and with the religious leader of Iraq’s Shiites issuing a call to arms at Friday’s prayers, we have reached the moment that skeptics of the 2003 United States invasion warned about all along: the implosion of the country, and, possibly, the entire region. “The state of Iraq is in imminent collapse,” Faisal Istrabadi, formerly a senior Iraqi diplomat, said on Thursday.

<snip>

Elsewhere in Washington, the blame game has already begun. “This is the education of Barack Obama, but it’s coming at a very high cost to the Syrian people to the Iraqi people, to the American national interest,” Doug Feith, the Under-secretary of Defense for Policy from 2001 to 2005, told Politico. “The President didn’t take seriously the warnings of what would happen if we withdrew and he liked the political benefits of being able to say that we’re completely out.” Senator John McCain, whom the President telephoned on Friday, has called on Obama to fire his entire national-security team, claiming, “Could all of this have been avoided? The answer is absolutely yes.”

McCain is right; it could have been avoided. If, in the aftermath of 9/11, President George W. Bush had treated the arguments of Feith, McCain, and other advocates of the Iraq War with the disdain they deserved, we (and the Iraqis) wouldn’t be where we are today.

<snip>

The Iraq invasion and occupation was ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated. It had terrible consequences not just for Iraq but for many other countries. It illustrated the limits of American military power—the opposite of what it was intended to do—and it helped accomplish what Osama bin Laden could never have achieved on his own: drawing the United States and its allies into an open-ended global battle with militant Islam. When you hear Feith and other architects of the Iraq invasion criticizing Obama for cutting and running, it is well to remember that.
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
from the New Yorker - "The Iraq Mess: Place Blame Where It Is Deserved" (Original Post) scarletwoman Jun 2014 OP
It is April 1975, and Saigon is about to fall Kennah Jun 2014 #1
... scarletwoman Jun 2014 #2
Nah, too easy. Benton D Struckcheon Jun 2014 #3
"I hope no one ever names a carrier after Dubya" Kennah Jun 2014 #25
Iraq was the key stone of the bridge and once the key stone was removed the whole Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #4
KnR Hekate Jun 2014 #5
Pathetic really.. elias49 Jun 2014 #6
All coming from the same holes that ignored a PDB.. Historic NY Jun 2014 #7
Oil plus billions of dollars in cash that was turned over to Iraqis no questions asked. Iliyah Jun 2014 #8
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #9
Thank you! I do hope at least some people will read the whole article at the link. scarletwoman Jun 2014 #10
I believe it touched all the bases, scarletwoman, with the only thing lacking Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #11
Thanks again, and good point. scarletwoman Jun 2014 #13
F**Cking Blame's on you, McCain.. couple of snips from your link.. Cha Jun 2014 #12
the issue is serious, and this blame game is just a lost of energy.nt fireflysky46 Jun 2014 #14
History not remembered is bound to be repeated. mnhtnbb Jun 2014 #15
I know, but lets face the urgency before writing history. fireflysky46 Jun 2014 #16
The history is already written. It needs to be remembered mnhtnbb Jun 2014 #17
Urgency? SammyWinstonJack Jun 2014 #30
Don't like the blame game? Tell it to McCain & his ilk who are happy to point their fingers at Obama scarletwoman Jun 2014 #19
Welcome to DU... ljm2002 Jun 2014 #22
Thank you. I totally agree. scarletwoman Jun 2014 #23
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #18
K&R! Katashi_itto Jun 2014 #20
Why on earth did Obama alsame Jun 2014 #21
To remind him that it was chimpy who signed the legal withdrawal papers, and... Amonester Jun 2014 #24
"the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth." GreatCaesarsGhost Jun 2014 #26
K&R Solly Mack Jun 2014 #27
Excellent read malaise Jun 2014 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jun 2014 #29
+1. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2014 #31

Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
3. Nah, too easy.
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 10:59 PM
Jun 2014

It's worse than that. Baghdad won't fall; the Shiites are the majority after all. What you're looking at here is a long bloody conflict. It ain't 1975; it's more like 1963 with Obama in JFK's position. Having been handed Iraq and having withdrawn, he is now being asked to get back in.
Unfortunately every time anything happens anywhere in the world it's still the US everyone looks around for. So let's tally up the world situation:

- Ukraine is every day calling for more help from the West, which is spelled U S when you get down to it.
- Thailand just had a coup,
- Libya's fallen apart,
- Syria continues to be a disaster,
- the Central African Republic's got troubles,
- as does Mali
- and Nigeria; in short, the international situation is desperate, as usual.
- and we just sent an aircraft carrier into the Gulf in case the "military option" needs to be exercised in Iraq. It's named the George H. W. Bush. You cannot make this stuff up.

I hope no one ever names a carrier after Dubya; the poor thing might sink and need to be lifted from the ocean floor with a giant tarp.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
4. Iraq was the key stone of the bridge and once the key stone was removed the whole
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:19 PM
Jun 2014

Damn bridge would surely fall. CIA George H Bush pushed for Saddam to be in Iraq. He fired off Desert Storm and George W invaded Iraq. Saddam kept his finger hold on Iran. Now we have major problems with Iraq and Iran. Humpty Dumpty has fallen off of the wall and can't be put back. The blame needs to placed squarely on the Bushes' shoulders.

 

elias49

(4,259 posts)
6. Pathetic really..
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:27 PM
Jun 2014

sometimes what it takes is a dictator to keep the trains running on time. This mess is worse than anything Saddam could have conjured up.
I still remember the first night when CNN showed Baghdad lighting up. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
7. All coming from the same holes that ignored a PDB..
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 11:32 PM
Jun 2014

that started this whole decade plus of death and injury.

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
8. Oil plus billions of dollars in cash that was turned over to Iraqis no questions asked.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 12:37 AM
Jun 2014

Bush Adm cut taxes for the rich. No money for two wars, and they were never put on the books. Today, we the middle class and poor are paying dearly for that bullshit.

Heard on KNX Los Angeles, Bob S recording kept saying that the GOP are divided but "will" make gains and/or probably take control of congress - WHAT kind of bull shit is this, and no, they are wrong just like their polling.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
10. Thank you! I do hope at least some people will read the whole article at the link.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:31 AM
Jun 2014

It gives a very succinct overview of how this mess came to be. The invasion was bad enough in itself, but on top of the original inexcusable agression was piled one boneheaded move after another - all leading, inevitably, to the situation we see today.

Uncle Joe

(58,328 posts)
11. I believe it touched all the bases, scarletwoman, with the only thing lacking
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:42 AM
Jun 2014

was a "What if the corporate media" hadn't worked so diligently to saturate the air waves and news print with pro Iraq War propaganda, all based on lies to brainwash millions of Americans?"

However, overall I thought it was a great, and balanced article.

Peace to you, scarletwoman.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
13. Thanks again, and good point.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:48 AM
Jun 2014

The corporate media is the sea in which we all swim. And like a fish unaware of the water surrounding it, I hadn't noticed that particular lack of notice.

Cha

(297,029 posts)
12. F**Cking Blame's on you, McCain.. couple of snips from your link..
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 02:42 AM
Jun 2014

Last edited Sun Jun 15, 2014, 03:18 AM - Edit history (1)

"McCain is right; it could have been avoided. If, in the aftermath of 9/11, President George W. Bush had treated the arguments of Feith, McCain, and other advocates of the Iraq War with the disdain they deserved, we (and the Iraqis) wouldn’t be where we are today."

"The Iraq invasion and occupation was ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated. It had terrible consequences not just for Iraq but for many other countries. It illustrated the limits of American military power—the opposite of what it was intended to do—and it helped accomplish what Osama bin Laden could never have achieved on his own: drawing the United States and its allies into an open-ended global battle with militant Islam. When you hear Feith and other architects of the Iraq invasion criticizing Obama for cutting and running, it is well to remember that."

Oh, we do.. Remember the Big ol Cans of WhoopAss we had posted on DU back in the day? To signify what would Happen if bush Bombed Iraq like a fucking idiot? I do.

thanks sw

mnhtnbb

(31,381 posts)
15. History not remembered is bound to be repeated.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:10 AM
Jun 2014

Why and how the mess in Iraq came to be needs to NEVER be forgotten.

mnhtnbb

(31,381 posts)
17. The history is already written. It needs to be remembered
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:51 AM
Jun 2014

or in the "urgency", it will be forgotten and repeated.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
19. Don't like the blame game? Tell it to McCain & his ilk who are happy to point their fingers at Obama
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:58 AM
Jun 2014

and whitewash the truth about how Iraq came to be in the state it's in.

We must never be content to let lying liars distort the truth about the debacle they were complicit in creating.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
22. Welcome to DU...
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 12:42 PM
Jun 2014

...but I must disagree with your statement.

Right now the Republicans are trying to pin blame for the Iraq debacle on Obama and his administration. Given their skill at molding the narrative, we need to pay attention when they start stuff like this. It would be foolish in the extreme to let such a narrative go un-answered.

My motto on stuff like this is: Don't start shit, and don't take shit.

Translated to the current situation: don't start the blame game, and don't let the other side pin it on you, either. Especially when the blame belongs SQUARELY on the shoulders of GWB and his administration.

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
23. Thank you. I totally agree.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 01:39 PM
Jun 2014
"It would be foolish in the extreme to let such a narrative go un-answered."


Fight back with the facts - always!

Amonester

(11,541 posts)
24. To remind him that it was chimpy who signed the legal withdrawal papers, and...
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 01:45 PM
Jun 2014

tell mcinsane he still is a liar.

Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»from the New Yorker - &qu...