General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAlan Grayson has put up a petition in DU politics to
prevent the TTP or TTIP from prohibiting local, state and the federal government buying American-Made products.
Rec his post and follow the link to sign the petition:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251366918
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Huge k & r
cali
(114,904 posts)more exposure is a good thing.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)More than glad to sign.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)crap, just another of my many daily WTF's. I signed. Thanks again for posting!
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)signed and forwarded.
cali
(114,904 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)TPP.
cali
(114,904 posts)in his post in the politics forum:
From his post:
Right now, the United States Trade Representative is negotiating two giant trade corporate agreements that would create free trade areas with East Asia and much of Europe.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)I actually know the guy who's negotiating these monstrosities. I used to like him.
cali
(114,904 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Tampa Bay area Democratic big-wig.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Let's just prohibit the TPP and TTIP altogether.
cali
(114,904 posts)Orrex
(63,086 posts)I can't imagine that even a legion of point-and-clickers will have much sway over a cabal of multi-billion dollar multi-nationals.
Optimism springs eternal, of course, but practically I can't see how it will make much difference.
cali
(114,904 posts)Orrex
(63,086 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)and of course I didn't say that.
Go read Grayson's post. Understand that the petition is too let Senators know (where his legislation on this has yet to be voted on) that Americans are following this debate.
Orrex
(63,086 posts)Really? And do you think that an online petition will change this in any meaningful way? That strikes me as naive, pollyanna wishful thinking.
Is there a lot of precedent for online petitions having a specific measurable impact on the passage of legislation?
I'm sure that a leaf thinks that it's steering the course of the river it's floating on, too.
cali
(114,904 posts)attempt to advance a cause one believes in. Got it.
Orrex
(63,086 posts)while attacking anyone who points out that the nothing you're doing is, in fact, nothing.
Got it.
cali
(114,904 posts)Orrex
(63,086 posts)I'll spell it out simply, in deference to my audience:
I see no value in participating in a futile token gesture with no likely impact. It is a masturbatory exercise intended to make its participants feel like they've done something meaningful, when for all intents and purposes they've done nothing at all.
Please explain how an online petition, even if it reaches its goal of 25,000 point-n-clickers, is likely to have an impact that is measurably and demonstrably different from doing literally nothing at all.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Orrex
(63,086 posts)Do you think that Grayson will voice his objection to the agreement if and only if he gets 25,000 point-n-clickers to "like" his poll?
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)In the comments section of the petition, I wrote "Just kill the damned agreements".
The thing that scares me, is if they're trying to amend it ahead of time (fast track would prohibit amending it) they must figure that it's passage is inevitable.
pleinair
(171 posts)edgineered
(2,101 posts)Thanks for the heads up cali.
Petition signed.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Signed
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)While trade partnerships have some negative effects, if they help transfer wealth from richer to poorer countries then that is a positive one.
cali
(114,904 posts)The TTIP like the TPP is a huge corporate giveaway and it includes the most egregious ISDS yet. And anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the subject knows how those provisions in other FTAs have worked out for poor countries- particularly the poor and indigenous in poor countries.
Some information with links:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023455457
The Amazon's Tiananmen: Perus Bagua Massacre Haunts the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025100526
Economist: 'TTIP serves the major corporations'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025100573
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Yes, many effects of a free trade pact may be bad for the third world.
But, in itself, prohibiting preferential purchasing of American goods will not be, and protecting it will exacerbate the negative effects.