Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Alan Grayson has put up a petition in DU politics to (Original Post) cali Jun 2014 OP
Thank you cali lovemydog Jun 2014 #1
thank you for posting and kicking this thread cali Jun 2014 #2
Thanks for the heads up, cali. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2014 #3
Thank you for posting this. I am absolutely stunned by some of this RKP5637 Jun 2014 #4
Seems reasonable. Kick. nt msanthrope Jun 2014 #5
Check and check. nt Union Scribe Jun 2014 #6
Don't you mean TPP? Fuddnik Jun 2014 #7
No, I mean both the Trans Pacific Partnership AND the Trans Atlantic Trade Partnership cali Jun 2014 #8
Trans Pacific Partnership Fuddnik Jun 2014 #11
Yes, and Grayson references BOTH THE TTP AND THE TTIP cali Jun 2014 #12
The bad thing is, Fuddnik Jun 2014 #18
Yikes. Do you mean Froman? cali Jun 2014 #20
Frank Sanchez Fuddnik Jun 2014 #23
I got a better idea. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #9
Sure, but it's still worth signing that petition. cali Jun 2014 #10
Is it? How so? Orrex Jun 2014 #13
It's already passed in the House n/t cali Jun 2014 #14
Because of an internet petition? That's amazing! Orrex Jun 2014 #17
uh no. why don't you consider informing yourself just a teeny bit? cali Jun 2014 #19
Do you think that the Senators don't know this already? Orrex Jun 2014 #21
OK. So in your little.... book, it's better to do nothing than to sign a petition to cali Jun 2014 #22
So in your little world, it's better to pretend that you're not doing nothing, Orrex Jun 2014 #24
imitation is so lame. and your post is nonsensical. yay for your word salad toss, orrex cali Jun 2014 #26
It's not word salad simply because you fail to understand Orrex Jun 2014 #27
Why are you whining about this? Just ignore the post and go away if it annoys you. n-t Logical Jun 2014 #28
Then why did you reply to me? Orrex Jun 2014 #29
I agree. Fuddnik Jun 2014 #16
Done nt UtahLib Jun 2014 #15
thank you, signed it. n/t pleinair Jun 2014 #25
6347 sigs, sitting at 26% now. We have a long way to go. nt edgineered Jun 2014 #30
K&R SamKnause Jun 2014 #31
K&R ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #32
Thanks! I had missed his post. arcane1 Jun 2014 #33
Grayson is wrong. Buying first-world products in preference to third-world is unethical. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #34
You couldn't be more wrong. cali Jun 2014 #35
Reread what I said. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2014 #36
Signed emsimon33 Jun 2014 #37

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
4. Thank you for posting this. I am absolutely stunned by some of this
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 07:28 AM
Jun 2014

crap, just another of my many daily WTF's. I signed. Thanks again for posting!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
12. Yes, and Grayson references BOTH THE TTP AND THE TTIP
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:38 AM
Jun 2014

in his post in the politics forum:

From his post:

Right now, the United States Trade Representative is negotiating two giant trade corporate agreements that would create free trade areas with East Asia and much of Europe.

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
18. The bad thing is,
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:44 AM
Jun 2014

I actually know the guy who's negotiating these monstrosities. I used to like him.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
13. Is it? How so?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:39 AM
Jun 2014

I can't imagine that even a legion of point-and-clickers will have much sway over a cabal of multi-billion dollar multi-nationals.

Optimism springs eternal, of course, but practically I can't see how it will make much difference.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
19. uh no. why don't you consider informing yourself just a teeny bit?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:48 AM
Jun 2014

and of course I didn't say that.

Go read Grayson's post. Understand that the petition is too let Senators know (where his legislation on this has yet to be voted on) that Americans are following this debate.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
21. Do you think that the Senators don't know this already?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:01 AM
Jun 2014

Really? And do you think that an online petition will change this in any meaningful way? That strikes me as naive, pollyanna wishful thinking.

Is there a lot of precedent for online petitions having a specific measurable impact on the passage of legislation?


I'm sure that a leaf thinks that it's steering the course of the river it's floating on, too.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
22. OK. So in your little.... book, it's better to do nothing than to sign a petition to
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:03 AM
Jun 2014

attempt to advance a cause one believes in. Got it.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
24. So in your little world, it's better to pretend that you're not doing nothing,
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:17 AM
Jun 2014

while attacking anyone who points out that the nothing you're doing is, in fact, nothing.

Got it.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
27. It's not word salad simply because you fail to understand
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:31 AM
Jun 2014

I'll spell it out simply, in deference to my audience:

I see no value in participating in a futile token gesture with no likely impact. It is a masturbatory exercise intended to make its participants feel like they've done something meaningful, when for all intents and purposes they've done nothing at all.


Please explain how an online petition, even if it reaches its goal of 25,000 point-n-clickers, is likely to have an impact that is measurably and demonstrably different from doing literally nothing at all.

Orrex

(63,086 posts)
29. Then why did you reply to me?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:44 AM
Jun 2014

Do you think that Grayson will voice his objection to the agreement if and only if he gets 25,000 point-n-clickers to "like" his poll?

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)
16. I agree.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:41 AM
Jun 2014

In the comments section of the petition, I wrote "Just kill the damned agreements".

The thing that scares me, is if they're trying to amend it ahead of time (fast track would prohibit amending it) they must figure that it's passage is inevitable.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
34. Grayson is wrong. Buying first-world products in preference to third-world is unethical.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jun 2014

While trade partnerships have some negative effects, if they help transfer wealth from richer to poorer countries then that is a positive one.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
35. You couldn't be more wrong.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:06 PM
Jun 2014

The TTIP like the TPP is a huge corporate giveaway and it includes the most egregious ISDS yet. And anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the subject knows how those provisions in other FTAs have worked out for poor countries- particularly the poor and indigenous in poor countries.

Some information with links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023455457

The Amazon's Tiananmen: Peru’s “Bagua Massacre” Haunts the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025100526

Economist: 'TTIP serves the major corporations'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025100573

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
36. Reread what I said.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:14 PM
Jun 2014

Yes, many effects of a free trade pact may be bad for the third world.

But, in itself, prohibiting preferential purchasing of American goods will not be, and protecting it will exacerbate the negative effects.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Alan Grayson has put up a...