General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBible Is Biggest Influence on My Thinking, Says Hillary Clinton
So, Hillary is making a big push for xian religious votes in a most overt way- particularly white repub xian voters. The title story coincides with a major push from a group called "faith voters for Hillary". Gag me with any available piece of flatware.
Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a recent interview that the Bible still remains the biggest influence on her thinking, adding that she finds it to be "a source of wisdom, comfort and encouragement
While promoting her new book Hard Choices, Clinton told this Sunday's New York Times Book Review that she attributes the Bible as the most influential book for shaping who she is today. "At the risk of appearing predictable, the Bible was and remains the biggest influence on my thinking. I was raised reading it, memorizing passages from it and being guided by it. I still find it a source of wisdom, comfort and encouragement."
Clinton, 66, added that she also has multiple books sitting on her bookshelf that are written by Republican authors, including John McCain's family memoir and autobiography Faith of My Fathers and George W. Bush's memoir Decision Points.
The former First Lady and Secretary of State previously referenced her Christian faith when speaking at the United Methodist Women's Assembly in Louisville, Kentucky back in April. Clinton told the nearly 7,000 women in attendance that the teachings of the church have guided her dedication to serving out the social gospel, the religious teaching that applies Christian principles to fixing social injustice.
(oooh, and there's something for the liberals)
<snip>
http://www.christianpost.com/news/bible-is-biggest-influence-on-my-thinking-says-hillary-clinton-121541/
And who could forget this:
<snip>
Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."
<snip>
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics
The Magistrate
(95,237 posts)This is just the sort of comforting noise the hoi poloi expect of political candidates....
"And they shall beat their pruning hooks into spears, and their plowshares into swords."
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts).
"And they shall beat their pruning hooks into spears, and their plowshares into swords."
~~~
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)Hillary could do worse. It really is a two-edged sword.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)so actively working for Wall Street money.
Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)at Alice's Restaurant.
(Exceptin' Alice)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)John Wesley began the movement in England and preached to poor miners.
A key step in the development of Wesley's ministry was, like Whitefield, to travel and preach outdoors. In contrast to Whitefield's Calvinism, however, Wesley embraced the Arminian doctrines that dominated the Church of England at the time. Moving across Great Britain, North America and Ireland, he helped to form and organise small Christian groups that developed intensive and personal accountability, discipleship and religious instruction. Most importantly, he appointed itinerant, unordained evangelists to travel and preach as he did and to care for these groups of people. Under Wesley's direction, Methodists became leaders in many social issues of the day, including prison reform and abolitionism.
. . . .
Wesley defined the witness of the Spirit as: "an inward impression on the soul of believers, whereby the Spirit of God directly testifies to their spirit that they are the children of God." He based this doctrine upon certain Biblical passages (see Romans 8:1516 as an example). This doctrine was closely related to his belief that salvation had to be "personal." In his view, a person must ultimately believe the Good News for himself or herself; no one could be in relation to God for another.
Sanctification he described in 1790 as the "grand depositum which God has lodged with the people called `Methodists'." Wesley taught that sanctification was obtainable after justification by faith, between justification and death. He did not contend for "sinless perfection"; rather, he contended that a Christian could be made "perfect in love". (Wesley studied Eastern Orthodoxy and particularly the doctrine of Theosis). This love would mean, first of all, that a believer's motives, rather than being self-centred, would be guided by the deep desire to please God. One would be able to keep from committing what Wesley called, "sin rightly so-called." By this he meant a conscious or intentional breach of God's will or laws. A person could still be able to sin, but intentional or wilful sin could be avoided.
Secondly, to be made perfect in love meant, for Wesley, that a Christian could live with a primary guiding regard for others and their welfare. He based this on Christ's quote that the second great command is "to love your neighbour as you love yourself." In his view, this orientation would cause a person to avoid any number of sins against his neighbour. This love, plus the love for God that could be the central focus of a person's faith, would be what Wesley referred to as "a fulfilment of the law of Christ."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wesley
I was raised a Methodist and think highly of the religion. I think Hillary Clinton is sincere about her religion, and that is good. I just don't think she would make a good candidate in 2016 unless the Republicans nominate someone quite extreme -- which they well could.
I prefer Elizabeth Warren. I think she speaks better to the problems of our time.
From her book, I gathered that Elizabeth Warren is also religious. Most Americans are.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)although there is some reason to indicate that Hill may be generally a mainstream Methodist or something. Lots of Methodists, UCCers, etc. are solidly in the liberal camp (although I would never accuse Hill of liberalism).
alsame
(7,784 posts)which always made me nervous. This is a good article about her faith from 2007.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics?page=1
Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."
<snip>
When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.
Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family" , a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.
Clinton declined our requests for an interview about her faith, but in Living History, she describes her first encounter with Fellowship leader Doug Coe at a 1993 lunch with her prayer cell at the Cedars, the Fellowship's majestic estate on the Potomac. Coe, she writes, "is a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."
Hekate
(90,189 posts)I remember a reference to seeing her on the campaign bus/plane reading a "well-thumbed and bookmarked Bible."
Methodism is mainstream, and Methodists are well represented in the social justice movement.
bigtree
(85,917 posts). . . and she insisted on being sworn in on it, I think.
Its a pretty old Bible, and I guess thats why its got nicks and dings all over it, she said.
Its a King James Bible, from which shes been known to quote.
Oh, I do, she said. I confess, Im a King James fan. I understand the world has moved on, but for me itll always be with King James.
http://www.wbur.org/2013/01/04/warren-first-women-senator
Nay
(12,051 posts)The Family, a secretive RW theocratic group with a large property near DC. She's been going there for YEARS. What would possess a Democrat, esp. one with presidential aspirations, to associate so long with very conservative and theocratic politicians and religious figureheads?
If you had a friend who volunteered at the ASPCA shelter, but you found out that she also loved to go to dogfights where the dogs fought to the death, wouldn't you see a huge disconnect inside this person? Would you believe that this person wanted to save animals from abuse, or would you think this person thought abuse was OK?
It's the same with Ms. Clinton. Is she a democrat or a conservative theocrat? Why would she be interested at all in an organization like the Family? Aren't there any big Methodist churches in DC where she could actually participate in social justice activities? What about joining the Friends or Quakers? Or an ecumenical group that focused on social justice rather than secrecy and theocracy?
It's a bad sign, folks.
bigtree
(85,917 posts). . .
Nay
(12,051 posts)bigtree
(85,917 posts). . . secret meetings . . . conspiracy nonsense without a shred of evidence that Clinton has leveraged ANYTHING other than prayer out of that relationship. This is the subject of loonies and demagogues, imo.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)This place would object to Hillary choosing pink panties over green ones. Anything is an excuse to bash her.
Pathetic and desperate...........
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)JI7
(89,174 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)leader who is primarily following Biblical law to make political and social decisions effecting us all.
I believe she has clearly "shown her hand" and I don't like what I see.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)whole lives which included teaching Sunday School and each of them would tell you that they were guided by the Bible....and they believed in the New Testament as the NEW Covenant and focused their life decision based on the Sermon on the Mount teachings... Hardly the sinister types those on this thread are suggesting...My Grandfather spent a few years as his state's Conservation Director...total volunteer position...My grandmother volunteered at the local hospital taking care of babies and my Grandfather was also a volunteer fireman....So suggesting that Church going is a criteria on deciding whether one is worthy of holding office is pretty low indeed.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)It's the Christian Dominionist thing that's got everyone upset. Have you read Sharlet's book The Family?
From the Amazon page--
Behind the scenes at every National Prayer Breakfast since 1953 has been the Family, an elite network dedicated to a religion of power for the powerful. Their goal is "Jesus plus nothing." Their method is backroom diplomacy. The Family is the startling story of how their faithpart free-market fundamentalism, part imperial ambitionhas come to be interwoven with the affairs of nations around the world.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)My grandparents would worship alongside those of the "fundamentalist" persuasion even though they may not have agreed with everything they believe by the way.....
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)We don't know the secrets of her soul, but we do know something about the people she is choosing to associate with here.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)the one in the bookstores right now...
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)alp227
(31,961 posts)Uhh, I feel a bit creeped out by the path you're going on. Would you say that Keith Ellison "follows Sharia law to make political and social decisions affecting us all"? I could care less about Hillary's political beliefs but would stay away from painting her as a theocrat.
Gore1FL
(21,030 posts)KinMd
(966 posts)Sanity Claws
(21,822 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)I refer you to this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025075831
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Especially if she's a fan of the red letters.... jmo...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)think
(11,641 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)they both did lots of great volunteer work and both were very active in their Churches. They also didn't believe in judging other peoples religious beliefs. My grandmother said "I won't know anything for sure until I get there". So I do not see their "beliefs" to be a negative for them at all!
think
(11,641 posts)Thank you for sharing
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I enjoyed thinking of them.....
2banon
(7,321 posts)LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)"...infected into people when they're around Jesus talk" - interesting Freudian slip by the preacher.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Hey, Hillary. Pat Robertson isn't going to endorse you anyway
The teabaggers won't be running to the polls for her either.
Who in the fuck is she trying to win over?
alp227
(31,961 posts)Remember all the (unfounded) complaints and rumors about "OBAMA BEING A MUSLIM"? (And is it true that Hillary's people came up with that B.S.?) Unfortunately, there are lots of voters in America (even left leaning or moderate ones) who won't vote for non-Christian candidates.
temporary311
(954 posts)that it's a recent development. In that case, I don't agree with you. I think it's been a litmus test since the beginning.
alp227
(31,961 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)which one?
Drew Richards
(1,558 posts)Bill...no no thats too catholic maybe...volenteer for rural support in the ozarks...whatever....you cant rewrite history to suit you,unless you're a republican....hmmm.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)lol
bigtree
(85,917 posts)On Wednesday night at the DNC, Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren drew attention to a New Testament passage that has had increasing significance for the Democratic Party: the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 25. In as much as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me, she said, quoting Jesus. The passage teaches about God in each of us, she continued, that we are bound to each other, and we are called to act not to sit, not to wait but to act, all of us together.
The Bible passage became popular among Democrats in 2008, when strategist Mara Vanderslice founded the Matthew 25 Network, a grassroots PAC designed to organize the Christian left for Obama. Since then, Democrats have used Jesus message of caring for the poor to connect with evangelicals on issues ranging from environmentalism to the economy.
Ms. Warren, like Democrats throughout the week, embodied the faith of the Democratic Party for the nation to see and hear, explains Democratic consultant Burns Strider. She showcased the compassion, authenticity and comfort of articulating the shared American values Democrats largely derive from a faith in God.
Warrens speech also aligned with efforts of the Democratic National Committees faith-outreach team. At a convention panel earlier on Wednesday, speakers stressed that the Affordable Care Act exemplifies the Presidents concern for the poor. Elizabeth Warrens terrific speech last night reaffirmed the vision she shares with President Obama that every American deserves the opportunity to reach our fullest God-given potential, DNC deputy director of faith outreach Joshua Dickson says. Her inclusion of Matthew 25: 40 was another reminder of the important role people of faith and faith traditions continue to play in the Democratic Party and reflects the core value that she and the President share.
http://swampland.time.com/2012/09/06/democrats-favorite-biblical-passage-matthew-25/
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
cali
(114,904 posts)"The Fellowship"?
Has she said that the bible is the biggest influence on her political thinking?
Comparing E. Warren citing ONE FRICKING BIBLE PASSAGE to Hillary's religious bullshit is ludicrous.
ANYONE BUT HILLY
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)That's dumber and more wrong than anything Hillary ever said or did. I forgive her, but I try to be the forgiving type.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)"I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets. I think that is not true anymore," Warren said. "I was a Republican at a time when I felt like there was a problem that the markets were under a lot more strain. It worried me whether or not the government played too activist a role."
Warren admitted though that she voted for both Democrats and Republicans.
There should be some Republicans and some Democrats, Warren said.
But she declined to say whether she voted for Ronald Reagan in either his first presidential campaign or his reelection campaign.
Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/189657--liberal-favorite-elizabeth-warren-admits-she-was-a-republican#ixzz34hgu1uiH
Response to OKNancy (Reply #23)
Nye Bevan This message was self-deleted by its author.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)and I really don't care if she changed her mind. I like her very much. It's the hypocrisy and OTT stuff about Hillary Clinton that prompted my post. Many politicians have a change of heart/opinion.
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)We don't quite know.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,697 posts)Maybe I should run. Two years-plus before the election and it's getting beyond ridiculous already. No one's even announced but you'd think the election was next week.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)voting for war in Iraq?
Seriously?
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)War in Iraq was not Hillary's idea. She was a legislator who sorely miscalculated on how to vote on someone else's bill, giving authority to someone else to make a decision. That's nothing compared with choosing to belong to a party that regularly used racism and hatred to divert working and middle class people from their economic self-interest. By the mid-90's, that had been going on since 1968.
Glad Warren figured out she was in a bad place somewhere in her 40's. And some people here give Hillary a hard time for being a Goldwater Girl...
bigtree
(85,917 posts). . . and you should know that. Any port's good enough in your anti-Hillary storm, I see.
You're bordering on religious hate for questioning Hillary's practice of her faith. Unless you have something specific she's done wrong associated with her faith . . . this is slippery and despicable politics from you.
cali
(114,904 posts)provide some evidence that she wasn't and then we'll see who's relating facts. Clue: NOT YOU>
The Magistrate
(95,237 posts)If you think it means something, say what you think it means, and why you think it means that, and then there will be something to discuss.
The fact in isolation means nothing.
bigtree
(85,917 posts). . . in what do you believe that relationship with the praying legislators manifested itself in Hillary Clinton's political or personal behavior?
The most I'm getting from your screed is that she prayed with republicans and you're stoked about it. I think you're trying to impart a view of this as something dark and sinister. Secret prayers . . . what's next? Meetings in catacombs under the Capitol?
This is slippery and suggestive politics which isn't a new tale but one that is used to evoke a response to something not evident or likely even existent.
Are you aware that what you're doing here with this is how religion has been used in politics over the history of our government to cast aspersions and suspicion on rivals? It's as old as politics itself, in fact.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)bigtree
(85,917 posts). . . I'm looking to see if there's some special consideration given by the critics of Hillary Clinton to the very similar expressions of faith that Sen. Warren has often made in public.
It's a political response to a political attack on Clinton. Just looking to measure the consistency of some of these critics here.
I'm of the same mind as Jefferson (as I included in that post): It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)This over-the-top criticism of Clinton is really getting ridiculous.
( I'm an atheist by the way )
cali
(114,904 posts)Clinton is a shameless opportunist and corporate toady indebted to the banking industry.
I intend to oppose her with facts- like this op. A lot.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)"Elizabeth Warren is a shameless opportunist and corporate toady indebted to the banking industry"?
But you demand the bandwidth to say it about the probable next Democratic Presidential nominee if not President...and on a Democratic Forum. Repeatedly over and over...day in and day out. As if this is the right place to poison the well...
It is getting beyond ridiculous....
cali
(114,904 posts)You don't like my criticism of Hillary but I have every right to oppose her until and unless she becomes the dem nominee.
I don't demand anything. I avail myself of the liberty to criticize her and use facts to bolster my arguments.
Think I shouldn't be able to? Alert. (and I'm sure you do, Vanilla.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)right? right?
So treat her with the same respect she would receive on FreeRepublic, campaign venomously against her, just like one of them would right here on DU, and then vote for her if she wins the primary?
Otherwise by this premise should any Freeper be allowed to come here and campaign against Hillary Clinton too..."just until the Primary don't you know"?
Do I understand this correctly?
cali
(114,904 posts)and no, it's not like a freeper. I criticize her from the left- not that you have a clue as to liberal sentiments of any kind.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I know what ideologues are and I know both sides have them too....
cali
(114,904 posts)Unlike you, I don't buy my beliefs wholesale. And if she becomes president, I'll praise her if she does things I consider praiseworthy and criticize her if she does things I believe are worthy of criticism.
Critical thinking. Try it, vanilla. Oh never mind. Why ask the impossible.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)no matter WHAT she does....exactly like you do for the current President...because it is never enough! A case of letting the good be the enemy of the perfect. And that is a tenet of the ideologues...
cali
(114,904 posts)but continue with your dem party line adoration. Don't ever try thinking for yourself. Not that there's the slightest danger of that, nilla.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)You damn skippy....I come from FDR Democrats for life....I AM a Democrat. and THIS is Democratic Underground.....whether ideologues like it or NOT!
cali
(114,904 posts)and sorry, hon, but I'm not an ideologue. I'm an independent thinker. that appears to be a concept that eludes you, 'nilla.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)you seem to have a different one then I have....
So let me see...I am sure Bill Clinton wasn't good enough.....I know Barack Obama is not good enough...and we already know if Hillary Clinton wins (because she will have the support of MOST Democrats in the Primary) she will not be good enough for you either....
But you are not an ideologue....
"an adherent of an ideology, especially one who is uncompromising and dogmatic."
cali
(114,904 posts)you didn't respond, I don't believe.
Hey, vanilla, what is your definition of a mindless zombie partisan hack and when did you stop beating...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Because you keep complaining about "them" and then you post that post and other posts that are basically complaining in advance of any and all criticism a Democrat will get because you seem to think they shouldn't get any criticism what so ever.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)I gave the dictionary defition why do you hate dictionaries?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)OKNancy
(41,832 posts)bless your heart
cali
(114,904 posts)that I my blood pressure is excellent. My heart function is great (that's the word they used after I had an electro-cardiogram, and I thoroughly enjoy my life- gardening, art, writing, etc. Oh, and I love summer in VT.
lumpy
(13,704 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)If you are so innocent of hatred. By the wayit IS hatred to those reading you whethr you admit it or not!
T Roosevelt
(4,105 posts)So be careful what qualities you ascribe to people of a certain faith.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)so be careful how you try to twist
T Roosevelt
(4,105 posts)that he let politics trump is religious beliefs, but somehow Hillary (or any Democrat) wouldn't? Please...
bmbmd
(3,088 posts)But she read the book. The book is about treating people with respect, and helping those less fortunate. There is no great mystery, and to read it is to be influenced.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)The bullshit is knee deep. That's why I don't really care what they say here about Hillary. I hope she runs. It'll be a blast to watch heads explode.
BootinUp
(46,924 posts)Thats the take away folks. And, for some of us raised in a very religious home, its not hard to imagine she is actually telling the truth.
cali
(114,904 posts)It's her turn.
BootinUp
(46,924 posts)can do with your snark dont you?
cali
(114,904 posts)And gee, remember 2008? Or did that example elude your ever so keen political eye?
BootinUp
(46,924 posts)did not sweep to victory on their first try.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)BootinUp
(46,924 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)influence and inspiration.
Blatant ugly pandering. fuck that.
2banon
(7,321 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)It's unfortunate the rightwing has hijacked it.
longship
(40,416 posts)Where politics is concerned, whenever the Bible is mentioned it is always as a ventriloquist dummy. It says whatever is convenient for your political position -- no matter what that position is. We've seen enough of the same throughout history, undoubtedly since since the beginning of human culture.
We have to stomach that bullshit from the theocratic Republicans, but hell if I am going to take it from a Democrat.
Hillary supports The Family that weird religious house in DC that houses congress critters who have some pretty fucking warped ideas.
I hope that she does not run for president. I am most uncomfortable with the idea of her doing so.
PumpkinAle
(1,210 posts)there is nothing in the Bible that can not be attributed to the Golden Rule - which transcends all religions.
Depending on which version she reads the Bible contains violence, cruelty and intolerance - not a lot of wisdom and comfort.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)If she's sincere, we're in trouble. If she's just pandering, well, that's sad too.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Inb4 the Hillary brigade (many of whom regularly disapprove of religion on DU) comes to explain this as something positive.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I guess the Rambo dodging sniper fire Hillary and the Joad family matriarch Hillary didn't poll well.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)"N" word used: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/life_and_art/1997/08/george_wallace.html
In HRC's case, it's "out-Christianed."
jwirr
(39,215 posts)do with them. What is she doing with that bunch of crooks.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)of the American voter. The Jesus people will still hate her guts and Americans with brains will be turned off by the shameless pandering.
She doesn't believe in anything beyond getting elected and the country deserves better.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)edgineered
(2,101 posts)HRC is without a moral compass guiding her political choices. If Clinton thinks she'll get votes by saying this, she'll say it. None the less, she is a war hawk, indebted to wall street, corporations, pac's and who knows what else. I don't doubt for a minute that she prayed for the doom of her opponents, along with her hawkish R friends, by way of some biblical wrath.
spin
(17,493 posts)In my opinion most probably have never read it and if they have they didn't understand it.
But judging others is above my pay grade. Still I think it's fair to say that if more politicians had read and understood the message in the Bible we would have far less corruption in our government and a lot more honesty.
Perhaps Hillary is actually very religious and perhaps not. Perhaps she is just a typical politician and perhaps she is the rare exception. I really can't say.
Nay
(12,051 posts)she's been doing that ever since Bill was in the WH. When she was just the First Lady, well, no one cared much -- but we still wondered why THAT group. They are ultra-conservative theocrats.
A liberal churchgoer interested in social justice generally would have NOTHING to do with such a group because its beliefs are diametrically opposite of social justice. It would be like a religious civil rights activist joining the local KKK Baptist Church.
THAT'S why people are remarking on it.
Response to cali (Original post)
Vattel This message was self-deleted by its author.
LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)Ishoutandscream2
(6,655 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)mike_c
(36,214 posts)Egg-zackly.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)John McCain's family memoir and autobiography Faith of My Fathers and George W. Bush's memoir Decision Points.
I would only own those books if they were on the dollar shelf or free and I needed something to shoot at.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)Now that's the truth like I like to read it. You must be from the "Pragmatic Reality Brigade" that likes to thumb their noses at others BS.
Keep it up friend.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)RKP5637
(67,032 posts)dsc
(52,130 posts)I sure wouldn't want to live under Martin Luther King Jr., or William Barber to name two. in case it is needed.
cali
(114,904 posts)and I have no idea who William Barber is/was.
dsc
(52,130 posts)trying to rescue the state from the Republicans but I guess we shouldn't listen to him since he is just a Bible thumper, better to listen to those who spout Ayn Rand.
Iggo
(47,487 posts)Myrina
(12,296 posts)She is a brilliant woman, scholar and politician but dear Goddess the machinations are so damned transparent.
Please do not run for President, Madam Secretary.
bullwinkle428
(20,626 posts)nolabear
(41,915 posts)"I have always cherished the Methodist Church because it gave us the great gift of personal salvation but also the great obligation of social gospel," Clinton told the crowd. "And I took that very seriously and have tried, tried to be guided in my own life ever since as an advocate for children and families, for women and men around the world who are oppressed and persecuted, denied their human rights and human dignity."
"Like the disciples of Jesus, we cannot look away, we cannot let those in need fend for themselves and live with ourselves," the wife of former U.S. President Bill Clinton continued. "We are all in this together."
This is a bad thing?
msongs
(67,193 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...and she knows it.
hunter
(38,264 posts)I read The Book cover-to-cover when I was seven years old. Bad, bad shit and my young inexperienced somewhat autistic mind missed most of the metaphors. I was a very early reader of everything and the child of a religiously insane mom. Maybe you know how it goes.
Ezekiel's guys with giant schlongs spewing semen like stallions, that was real man. (Ezekiel 23:20; some translations more explicit than others.)
My mom eventually found home with the Quakers and family life got better. No more getting kicked out of churches (or once an entire nation...) just because my mom had God's private phone number and the preacher, bishop, or authorities didn't. My mom is still the sort who would get into a fist fight with a Pope, and he would lose. God save Peter when my mom is in line at the Pearly Gates. There will be a riot. I suspect she'll pass, she is impeccably (sometimes horrifyingly and inappropriately) honest, but there will be many trap doors in the heavenly-clouds-before-the-gates opening up to hell that day.
Sigh. Alas I am a simpleton. The biggest influence on my thinking ever was the National Semiconductor-CMOS Databook.
Or perhaps the Boys' Second Book of Radio and Electronics which a subversive third grade teacher let me keep at home for an entire semester.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I read the damn thing cover to cover and the "good guys" are into killing entire villages of men women and children, oh wait, I get now why she supported blowing up Iraq! (it was the Godly thing to do)
Alex P Notkeaton
(309 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)The Fellowship largely avoided public scrutiny until 2009, when its involvement in Ugandas Anti-Homosexuality Bill became public. Uganda has been the object of special attention within the organization since 1986, when President Yoweri Museveni came to power and quickly became one of The Fellowships most-prized recruits.
Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK), the organizations point person for Africa, has for years cultivated personal friendships with rising Fellowship members and with the political elite in Uganda. According to Jeff Sharlet, author of a best-selling book about The Fellowship, Inhofe was designated as partner for 11 African leaders, including the presidents of Burundi, Rwanda, and Uganda, relationships supported by funds raised by teams of American businessmen and religious activists. The organizations 2003-04 budget included $70,000 for Inhofe to travel to Uganda.
Former U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback (now the governor of Kansas) is another prominent and influential Fellowship member who maintained close ties to President Museveni, and who helped shape U.S. policy toward the nation. As we give foreign aid to Uganda, Sharlet said of Inhofe and Brownback, these are the people who are in a position to steer that money.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/profiles-on-the-right-the-family-aka-the-fellowship-aka-c-street/
November 30, 2009
There is a secretive group known as The Fellowship, or The Family, one of the most powerful, well-connected Christian fundamentalist movements in the United States. The Fellowships membership includes congressmen, corporate leaders, generals and foreign heads of state.
The Fellowship is anti-labor, anti-gay, and pro-life. It is also anti-communist, but not necessarily a firm believer in democracy. Rather, it favors a totalitarianism for Christ, a sort of Christian theocracy. In foreign policy, it promotes a soft U.S. expansionism.
Is the Fellowship a cult, cabal, or a right-wing conspiracy? Whatever it is, we should be concerned that a secretive, privately funded group without public scrutiny is profoundly influencing U.S. domestic and foreign policy.
Jeff Sharlets publications are the primary source of this article. Sharlet is a an author and journalist, who went undercover at Ivanwald, the Fellowships unofficial headquarters in Arlington, Virginia. His experience there plus interviews with insiders and research resulted in articles in Harpers, Mother Jones, and Salon, and a New York Times bestselling book, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power. Recently, he was interviewed on NPRs Fresh Air.
http://www.fogcityjournal.com/wordpress/1505/the-fellowship-a-secretive-christian-fundementalist-organization/
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)The bible is so full of contratictions and gives something in one place and takes it away in another...
Kind of reminds me of most politicians, not just Clinton.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)Please throw me to the lions. I prefer them to pseudo politically convenient Christians.
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
― Mahatma Gandhi
Response to cali (Original post)
bmbmd This message was self-deleted by its author.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)How anyone could even consider her for the nomination is beyond me
Stargleamer
(1,979 posts)That I've always hated about her. In a similar vein, I think she voted for the Iraqi War Resolution because she was needlessly afraid not to, afraid of losing percentage points.
That said, I regret supporting Obama over her because of it. I think she was far less naive about the Republicans than he turned out to be. Also, I suspect she would have stood up to them more--she did mention once about a vast right-wing conspiracy.
Also, I've been told that Ecclesiastes can be rather interesting--I might check it out one day. ("Turn, Turn, Turn" by the Byrds (originally by Pete Seeger) was one of my favorite childhood songs (which my mother wouldn't hesitate to remind me had lyrics from the Bible).
KoKo
(84,711 posts)who Betrayed Her.
She has great appeal amongst RW and all Females because she survived Bill's Liasons throughout their marriage. Survived and made Lemonaid out of Lemons....and achieved more prestige while carrying him along with her to repair his own image. They are both Survivors. It's a great American Story.
She is definitely going to push her victim appeal with Female Voters on the Right and Left because MORE FEMALES of Both Parties...vote than their male counterparts. She is a Super Star....and Bill is now in her glowing light also benefits with the rehab image of both of them. Policy is not important in POLITICS ....it's Image Rehab and manipulation by skilled folks in the business.
It's an excellent strategy for her......as long as she and her handlers think that female voters can be manipulated that way.
I think she overestimates her strategy....but, then...Who Knows. I give Female Voters more credit...but, then Image Manipulation seems to work very well these days.
no_hypocrisy
(45,774 posts)Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics
For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulatingor living her faith?
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics
JI7
(89,174 posts)?
cali
(114,904 posts)leader. 2) I have no problem with her religion. I have a problem with her opportunistic say anything shit and her pandering.
got that?
JI7
(89,174 posts)to get votes and politicians who want to win, especially a presidential race will have to things like that.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Hearing that doesn't make me feel better about her at all.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)If the Babble is the "single biggest influence on her thinking" then she has no place in the Whitehouse and most certainly won't get my support. ..
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)biggest influence and she can stand to read confederate crap?
Is this who we want as our candidate? Really?
So very deeply embarrassing that her biggest influence is based on myths and ancient mythic thinking, especially after a time as Secy of State.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)with Barry Goldwater does. (she fondly referred to herself as a Goldwater Girl.) And her Republican roots do, plus DLCism, The Fellowship, etc. I can keep going....
Whisp
(24,096 posts)How can anyone have trust in this person and ignore all the absolutely atrocious things she says?
HARD WORKING WHITE AMERICANS? WTF!
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)what she said under the rug. That, along with her comments re: MLK, Jr. vs. LBJ. Her comments re: assassination of Robert Kennedy; her husband's comments about Jesse Jackson; him going on Rush Limbaugh's show; her folks going on Faux News. Geraldine Ferraro's race-baiting. I could go on and on.
They both were incredibly disgusting.
"He's a Christian...as far as I know"! (wink, wink...hint, hint)
Absolutely disgusting!!!!!!!
Whisp
(24,096 posts)she will have a whole lot more baggage to explain than she had in '08.
The Clinton campaign went off the rails - they were complacent and lazy thinking it was hers if she wants it. And pow!, they were wrong, and scrambled in a tizzy - and in their disorientation ended up saying some absolutely unforgivable and stupid things as a last ditch effort to go for all broke. I don't think at that time they would have thought about running again and so foolishly let loose the omgs of political war.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)It may not be her fault, but we as Democrats don't usually behave this way. This is what the Republicans do--they exalt their leaders. They tag them for office. We *used* to make our leaders EARN their way. Obama had to earn his way, fair and square. Twice now, Hillary has been donned with entitlement. Being First Lady and a senator for 4 years doesn't entitle one for the presidency. I don't get it. They don't even think that Joe Biden who has a 40-year history as a senator, 8 years as Vice President and a statesman is good enough. Or, sitting Democratic governors who have proven records are as qualified are good enough. It's weird. Used to be that executive experience alone was qualification.
elias49
(4,259 posts)roody
(10,849 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Here she goes again sticking feet in mouth. I could read that as - if she does become President, she will be ruling with her religious beliefs rather than her whatever other else she has.
Was it only last week she was moaning about how broke her and Bill were?
geeze, what a gaff machine.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Learn how to accept truth before eyerolling.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)what you have to say about American politics.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Canada is not a swear word or a denigration of a person, like you intend it to be.
And as I have mentioned before, when George Bush went to war it could very well have included Canada if Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien had not refused. If there was a Harper Conservative at that time, things may have gone differently.
So please don't tell me this is none of my business, it makes you look foolish and not very well informed.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)about how broke she and Bill were. They went $12mn into debt over all the bs witch hunts they had to deal with. Of course they're fine now as they command high speaking fees. Doesn't change the fact that they went that much into debt due to the "vast right wing conspiracy" that exists to this day in different forms. You complain about it all the time when it's against Obama.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)they left the WH. That's incredible and a little suspicious.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Like I said, I don't like her and I also don't trust her. And I don't think Bill was one of our best presidents either. But they did get shafted by that whole impeachment and other bs that the RW came after them on.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)applegrove
(118,020 posts)influenced by two grandmothers who were staunch presbyterians. I would say the bible influenced me more than any other book even though I did not read the old testament till I was 33. And still have not read the new testament.It is by far the biggest influencer of Western culture.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)She should be embarrassed to say that in this time of religious wackadoodles in congress.
When the hell are Dem leaders going to wake up and realize they should be playing to the Dem base and they will get plenty of moderates and even some Republicans by doing so? Populism will work. Just try it. Stand for policies and programs that actually help people and they will vote for you. It ain't rocket science.
This cannot be real ...
fujiyama
(15,185 posts)Honestly, my first reaction to this is I just started cracking up. This is some truly A-grade, first class pandering to what seems evident to be a nation of dolts.
In all seriousness though, how does an ancient book of fables, incoherent ramblings by delusional egomaniacs, rife with contradictions influence one's thinking so greatly? What is her comment supposed to really mean?
KG
(28,749 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)But sweet Jesus I hate this election song and dance.
mike_c
(36,214 posts)I mean HRC's comments, not the OP.
Ask yourself, "if HRC is planning to run for president, WHY does she want the job?" When I ask that question, the answer I'm looking for is "she wants to fix this or change that." I want some statement of vision, something that the potential candidate stands for.
What does HRC stand for? What wrongs will she right?
In the absence of those things, the only reasons I can think of for wanting a job like POTUS are all the wrong reasons. Desire for power. Belief in destiny. Wanting to "win" at all costs. Feeling like it's her turn.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Earlier today I read the Mother Jones article you cited, and this one from Daily Beast
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/25/obama-the-family-and-uganda-s-anti-gay-christian-mafia.html
in which she says The Family leader, Doug Coe is:
a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God.
Before today I didn't like Hillary much, but I wasn't actively against her. Now I'm with you, I'll do anything I can to oppose her for the nomination. If she gets it, which I doubt, I may just focus my support activities on Congress.
Stick a fork in her, she is DONE as far as I'm concerned, after what I learned today. No way, no how will I support somebody who is in bed enough with The Family to attend their small cell prayer group for EIGHT YEARS, That is a cult, not a valid Christian belief. (And she can read her Bible all she wants, she doesn't do what it says.)
You were right, cali. Thanks! to you and other DUers (like Luminous Animal) who made a point of this enough for me to finally check it out. Ewww, just ewww. She creeps me out.
Proud Public Servant
(2,097 posts)It's got nothing to do with the Bible or her answer per se; Jimmy Carter would answer that question the same way, and he has nary a detractor on these boards.
No, the problem is how patently, utterly false it feels. Seriously, does anyone here believe that answer? A proud 60s feminist, a product of an elite liberal arts education, a Yale-educated lawyer -- the Bible? No, it rings horribly false, not only on its face but because Hillary has been a public figure for over 20 years and never once evidenced any significant religiosity.
And the reason that's a problem -- instead of, say, just your normal pandering -- is that she already has a reputation as someone who will say anything in the service of her own ambition. That particular trait disgusts people; it certainly helped kill Romney in 2012. And her opponents are going to exploit the hell out of that.
avebury
(10,946 posts)Living in an uber bible thumping state I have seen just how much damage these people can do to a state. The quickest way to lose my vote is when a politician starts to talke about how important their faith is in his/her life. I have seen way to much hyprocicy on the issue to ever take them serious.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)BUT with that, I don't want other people's turn on to became FORCED on ME.
0rganism
(23,855 posts)Any politician who gets asked the favorite book question and doesn't answer "Bible" within 3 seconds is not considering a national candidacy in this country.
Go ahead, try answering with Kant's "Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals" and see how far that gets you.
joe_sixpack
(721 posts)From politicians, is it not? Do we really think she's that different? And after all, whatever helps her win can be excused once she's elected and starts changing the world for the better.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)She is soundbyte hungry.
I don't like phony bullshit, and she has always handed it out. I know there are plenty of phony politicians in this world, but she stands on the cusp of phony and fictitious WAY too much.
It's like a friend that you WANT to like because they are successful, love your children and keeps their lawn regularly cut, but they are so fake you know they probably either have a meth lab in the basement or a cockfighting racket going.