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cali

(114,904 posts)
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:39 PM Jun 2014

Bible Is Biggest Influence on My Thinking, Says Hillary Clinton

So, Hillary is making a big push for xian religious votes in a most overt way- particularly white repub xian voters. The title story coincides with a major push from a group called "faith voters for Hillary". Gag me with any available piece of flatware.

Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a recent interview that the Bible still remains the biggest influence on her thinking, adding that she finds it to be "a source of wisdom, comfort and encouragement

While promoting her new book Hard Choices, Clinton told this Sunday's New York Times Book Review that she attributes the Bible as the most influential book for shaping who she is today. "At the risk of appearing predictable, the Bible was and remains the biggest influence on my thinking. I was raised reading it, memorizing passages from it and being guided by it. I still find it a source of wisdom, comfort and encouragement."

Clinton, 66, added that she also has multiple books sitting on her bookshelf that are written by Republican authors, including John McCain's family memoir and autobiography Faith of My Fathers and George W. Bush's memoir Decision Points.

The former First Lady and Secretary of State previously referenced her Christian faith when speaking at the United Methodist Women's Assembly in Louisville, Kentucky back in April. Clinton told the nearly 7,000 women in attendance that the teachings of the church have guided her dedication to serving out the social gospel, the religious teaching that applies Christian principles to fixing social injustice.

(oooh, and there's something for the liberals)

<snip>

http://www.christianpost.com/news/bible-is-biggest-influence-on-my-thinking-says-hillary-clinton-121541/

And who could forget this:

<snip>

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

<snip>

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics

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Bible Is Biggest Influence on My Thinking, Says Hillary Clinton (Original Post) cali Jun 2014 OP
You Can Find Anything You Want In The Bible, Ma'am The Magistrate Jun 2014 #1
And, far too often, more the latter than the former:. NYC_SKP Jun 2014 #21
And...there are many good life lessons in the Bible and in other great books. kelliekat44 Jun 2014 #155
But as a Methodist, she should be far more actively working for social justice and not JDPriestly Jun 2014 #184
And you can get anything you want Flying Squirrel Jun 2014 #162
Traditionally, Methodists are social reformers. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #183
Jesus Christ! Comrade Grumpy Jun 2014 #2
So embarrassing. reformist2 Jun 2014 #3
This stuff has always made me nervous, Jackpine Radical Jun 2014 #4
She was part of The Fellowship in DC, alsame Jun 2014 #17
I seem to recall her Methodism was discussed during Bill's first prez campaign Hekate Jun 2014 #96
Warren has like a childhood bible from third grade bigtree Jun 2014 #111
It's not her Methodism that makes us queasy. It's her long association with Nay Jun 2014 #115
they hold dogfights? bigtree Jun 2014 #116
Oh, for heaven's sake. Grow up. nt Nay Jun 2014 #118
you grow up. You're the one with all of the conspiracy talk bigtree Jun 2014 #160
I guess by all the fake outrage everyone here must be an atheist. Beacool Jun 2014 #167
I hear she also kicks puppies when no one's looking BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #5
I suspect she does. Enthusiast Jun 2014 #95
it's politics, and part of her setting up her response when the whole Bill Cheating thing comes up JI7 Jun 2014 #6
Well, that's it for me. I'll still vote for her if she the nominee but, I have NO faith in any ladjf Jun 2014 #7
Me, too! Louisiana1976 Jun 2014 #35
Why? My lifelong FDR Democrat voting Grandmother and Grandfather were Church going folk their VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #38
Nobody is suggesting that. Jackpine Radical Jun 2014 #137
who decided she was a Dominionist? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #144
Have you read the book? Jackpine Radical Jun 2014 #147
Have you? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #148
Yes. A few years ago. Jackpine Radical Jun 2014 #149
we are discussing the latest one... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #150
Sharlet has a new book? Jackpine Radical Jun 2014 #153
... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #161
When you get done with the self-abuse, check this OP by madfloridian. Jackpine Radical Jun 2014 #199
" following Biblical law to make political and social decisions effecting us all. " alp227 Jun 2014 #91
Does Keith Ellison consider the Koran to be the "biggest Influence on (his) Thinking"? n/t Gore1FL Jun 2014 #135
Would that include the REVEREND Martin Luther King Jr.? KinMd Jun 2014 #180
Pander, pander Sanity Claws Jun 2014 #8
Seriously, Hillary has to be the most tone deaf candidate, since, well the last time she ran. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #79
So is it you are thinking this is positive or a negative? Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #9
seriously? cali Jun 2014 #12
I get it you do not like Hillary, my question was it a negative or positive she reads the bible? Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #16
Are you honestly serious? oh wait. nevermind you think it's a good thing.. 2banon Jun 2014 #36
good answer Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #78
Positive think Jun 2014 #34
This is exactly what my grandparents would tell you guided their lives...."The Red Letters" VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #41
Was that good or bad? think Jun 2014 #48
they were loyal Democrats....My grandfather after serving overseas...joined the CCC's VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #56
That's awesome. think Jun 2014 #67
Your welcome! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #68
Yeah, believing in hoky poky fairy tales is a great presidential qualification. 2banon Jun 2014 #46
Oh, no - LiberalElite Jun 2014 #10
here we go again Doctor_J Jun 2014 #11
No doubt. LAGC Jun 2014 #69
Do you not think Christianity has become a de facto litmus test for high profile public office? alp227 Jun 2014 #92
"Has become" implies temporary311 Jun 2014 #109
D'oh! Brain fart on my part. nt alp227 Jun 2014 #110
Is that why she contradicts herself so often? Warren DeMontague Jun 2014 #13
Heh. Good one. truebluegreen Jun 2014 #65
Yeah. When people say "I believe in the literal Genesis account of creation", I go Warren DeMontague Jun 2014 #90
Yeah shes not running yet...next shes gonna tell us she almost joined a convent till she met Drew Richards Jun 2014 #14
Remember the sniper fire Politicalboi Jun 2014 #49
Thewr are no atheists on foxholes elehhhhna Jun 2014 #114
here's an old article: Elizabeth Warren Cites Matthew 25 Bible Passage in DNC Speech bigtree Jun 2014 #15
and was Senator Warren ever closely associated with the uber conservative nutwads of cali Jun 2014 #18
Warren was a registered Republican from 91-96 BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #20
she wouldn't say if she voted for Reagan or not ( probably means she did) OKNancy Jun 2014 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author Nye Bevan Jun 2014 #61
very true OKNancy Jun 2014 #73
economically, definitely. Other issues? wyldwolf Jun 2014 #97
I've never been a Republican in any way, shape or form. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2014 #28
Being a registered Republican is worse than MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 #157
It's not even close, because being a Republican was Warren's idea BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #159
conspiracy hogwash bigtree Jun 2014 #22
I've provided evidence that she was associated with The Fellowship. YOU cali Jun 2014 #24
That Is Old News, Ma'am: The Question Is, What Meaning Can Accurately Be Ascribed To It? The Magistrate Jun 2014 #31
associated with the fellowship, okay bigtree Jun 2014 #47
I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with the OP Doctor_J Jun 2014 #112
That was an interesting post, but what is your point? nm rhett o rick Jun 2014 #142
it's a politician that is popular evoking her religious beliefs bigtree Jun 2014 #158
Methodists take pride in good works and humanitarian activities OKNancy Jun 2014 #19
I don't care what you are. that's your business. cali Jun 2014 #26
How long do you think you would last on DU if you said... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #51
I'd be a liar in that case, and that I am not. cali Jun 2014 #119
Yeah and then you are going to vote for her right? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #120
No. And if she's the nominee, I will take a hiatus from DU cali Jun 2014 #124
and what will you do if she becomes President? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #125
um, nope not an ideologue. If I were I would hardly be defending Obama on Iraq cali Jun 2014 #126
who would YOU call the ideologue from the Left? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #127
Chris Hedges, for one- someone I don't have much use for because of that. cali Jun 2014 #130
and we both know better...IF she wins you will come here to do exactly what you are doing now.... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #129
you "think" you know. Of course you do not. cali Jun 2014 #132
from this reaction....I can tell I was spot on! VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #134
lol. wrong again, 'nilla. I am a democrat as well. cali Jun 2014 #138
then what is YOUR definition of ideologue? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #141
I already gave you an example. cali Jun 2014 #152
your example is not the definition....:-)words matter "ca" VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #189
I don't think you know what ideologue means. cui bono Jun 2014 #178
....oh really? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #190
+1 cui bono Jun 2014 #177
minus one for not knowing the definition of ideologue. VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #191
What? One is true the other is not. You are making no case what so ever for whatever your point is. cui bono Jun 2014 #176
don't bust an aneurysm in the mean time OKNancy Jun 2014 #54
oh I won't. I'm sure you'll be thrilled to hear cali Jun 2014 #121
Hatred destroys rational thinking. lumpy Jun 2014 #64
I don't hate her. She may be a delightful person. I reject her politics. cali Jun 2014 #122
then why so vitriolic? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #192
George W Bush is a Methodist T Roosevelt Jun 2014 #37
GW is a Republican. OKNancy Jun 2014 #55
So your implication is T Roosevelt Jun 2014 #70
Yes lumpy Jun 2014 #62
Not only is she a Methodist, bmbmd Jun 2014 #106
This place is getting ridiculous. Beacool Jun 2014 #164
The next President knows how to play the game BootinUp Jun 2014 #25
hey, I know. let's just have a coronation. Hilly is destined to be President. She deserves it. cali Jun 2014 #27
Its a prediction based on years of observation, you know what you BootinUp Jun 2014 #30
no, do tell what I can do with my "snark". cali Jun 2014 #32
My keen eye notes that 3 of the last 8 Presidents BootinUp Jun 2014 #53
How many failed candidates have not gone on to win the Presidency upon a second bid? morningfog Jun 2014 #143
Who were the 2 other than Nixon? morningfog Jun 2014 #145
Reagan and Bush 1. BootinUp Jun 2014 #188
Good, finally a sane christian in politics. JaneyVee Jun 2014 #29
Yes, yes. We must have politicians blathering about how the bible is their greatest political cali Jun 2014 #33
wake me when this fucking nightmare is over. I'm so done with this religious pandering bs. 2banon Jun 2014 #42
It is a fairly progressive manifesto. JaneyVee Jun 2014 #52
+1 BootinUp Jun 2014 #60
The Bible as a ventriloquist dummy. longship Jun 2014 #39
Puke bigwillq Jun 2014 #40
She is recruiting PumpkinAle Jun 2014 #43
That's unfortunate. alarimer Jun 2014 #44
Fake fake fake LittleBlue Jun 2014 #45
The woman rebrands herself more than Madonna. HooptieWagon Jun 2014 #50
It's just a variation on a theme. Fill in the blank: "I won't be out-____ed by the opposition." WinkyDink Jun 2014 #57
It is not the Bible that worries me - it is the Fellowship group she prays with. I want nothing to jwirr Jun 2014 #58
She has a very low opinion of the intelligence tularetom Jun 2014 #59
+1 InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #80
Those Clintons sure have a lot of gall. n/t Whisp Jun 2014 #151
Agreeing with cali, edgineered Jun 2014 #63
I've seen many politicians say that the Bible is an important influence in their lives. ... spin Jun 2014 #66
The fact that she chose The Fellowship to worship with is the problem.... Nay Jun 2014 #117
This message was self-deleted by its author Vattel Jun 2014 #71
Yeah, the Bible's been a big influence on me, too. LuvNewcastle Jun 2014 #72
Now it's certain she's running Ishoutandscream2 Jun 2014 #74
Rick Santorum said the same thing. I don't want him to be President either. Scuba Jun 2014 #75
^^^ ding ding ding ^^^ mike_c Jun 2014 #202
It's like she's making a case to NOT vote for her 2pooped2pop Jun 2014 #76
Hehe Caretha Jun 2014 #101
I actually expected to see a reference to Reagan's autobiography, too deutsey Jun 2014 #194
The political machine is warming up for a run around the block! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2014 #77
yeah let's get the Bible thumpers out of politics dsc Jun 2014 #81
MLK was an elected politician? News to me. In fact, he wasn't a politician at all cali Jun 2014 #82
He is leading the Moral Monday protests in North Carolina dsc Jun 2014 #85
*cough*cough*...Yeah, okay. Iggo Jun 2014 #83
I just threw up in my mouth little .... Myrina Jun 2014 #84
Did Hillary add "This message brought to you by 'The Family'"? bullwinkle428 Jun 2014 #86
I won't dictate anyone's sources of inspiration. If this is what she takes from it I approve. nolabear Jun 2014 #87
so if Hillary runs, who will be the democrat in the race? nt msongs Jun 2014 #88
Republicans will never vote for her AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #89
The Bible twisted my thinking in a big way too, Hillary. hunter Jun 2014 #93
OMG! Enthusiast Jun 2014 #94
Can Ya Tell She's Running Yet ??? WillyT Jun 2014 #98
Puts herself in the news every damn day. morningfog Jun 2014 #146
I don't trust people that follow a bronze age book full of murder, stonings and rape Dragonfli Jun 2014 #99
Well she HAD to say that! Alex P Notkeaton Jun 2014 #100
Profiles on the Right: “The Family,” aka “The Fellowship,” Zorra Jun 2014 #102
I believe it fadedrose Jun 2014 #103
That seals it Caretha Jun 2014 #104
This message was self-deleted by its author bmbmd Jun 2014 #105
That alone should be enough to disqualify her... truly fucking pathetic. bowens43 Jun 2014 #107
It's this catering, this political calculus. . . Stargleamer Jun 2014 #108
Women of the Religious Right see Hillary as a Victim of a Man KoKo Jun 2014 #113
Is Hillary Clinton still a member of The Fellowship? no_hypocrisy Jun 2014 #123
Haven't you said that you were a fan of the Pope ? so why is this a problem JI7 Jun 2014 #128
1) The pope is not a politician and he is not running for President. He is a religious cali Jun 2014 #133
but isn't it the Pope who should be held to a higher standard than a politician, after all she needs JI7 Jun 2014 #170
Totally Alarming colsohlibgal Jun 2014 #131
Say goodbye to my support. .. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #136
Great! Another so-called "Christian" chickenhawk. So, the Bible is her ChisolmTrailDem Jun 2014 #139
This doesn't bother me. Her and her hubby's racist rhetoric in 2007-2008 does. Her association Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2014 #140
Clinton: Obama Not Winning Over "Hard-Working Americans, White Americans" Whisp Jun 2014 #169
I never understood it. I never understood the black people who just swept Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2014 #203
This is why I say if Hillary runs this time Whisp Jun 2014 #205
The same thing is happening this time around. I don't like the sense of entitlement. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2014 #206
where's that 'puke' smilie?? nt elias49 Jun 2014 #154
Oh puke. roody Jun 2014 #156
Apparently Hillary's bible says when you lie, lie Big... Tuzla big. Whisp Jun 2014 #163
Learn how to spell gaffe before bloviating. Beacool Jun 2014 #165
so you don't think Tuzla was a big lie? Whisp Jun 2014 #166
Sweets, the day I can vote in Canada is the day I will care Beacool Jun 2014 #168
You seem to be afraid to face the truth about Hillary's large ability to lie. Whisp Jun 2014 #171
Look, I can't stand Hillary and don't want her to be president, but she was not moaning cui bono Jun 2014 #179
By my figures the Clintons have "earned" close to 5 million a year since rhett o rick Jun 2014 #185
That is a lot! cui bono Jun 2014 #196
Her biggest influence is who she studies the Bible with Oilwellian Jun 2014 #172
I am agnostic but was most heavily applegrove Jun 2014 #173
fine, give us a verse or two (other than "Jesus wept," though it'd seem appropriate in this case) MisterP Jun 2014 #174
Pathetic. The bible is not a suitable source for guidance in the political world. cui bono Jun 2014 #175
OMFG! mrsadm Jun 2014 #181
Is her favorite political philosopher Jesus? fujiyama Jun 2014 #182
religion. lol. KG Jun 2014 #186
As pandering goes, this is fairly benign. Orsino Jun 2014 #187
oh FFS, what lame nonsense to start the day with.... mike_c Jun 2014 #193
Thank God it isn't Atlas Shrugged PADemD Jun 2014 #195
I agree with you now, cali. Didnt' before. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2014 #197
Here's why this is worrisome for Dems Proud Public Servant Jun 2014 #198
There is no way that I would ever vote for her. avebury Jun 2014 #200
Whatever turns you on, as we used to say HockeyMom Jun 2014 #201
All this means is she's running in 2016 0rganism Jun 2014 #204
A little pandering and condescension is to be expected joe_sixpack Jun 2014 #207
This is why I don't like Hillary Aerows Jun 2014 #208

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
1. You Can Find Anything You Want In The Bible, Ma'am
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:42 PM
Jun 2014

This is just the sort of comforting noise the hoi poloi expect of political candidates....

"And they shall beat their pruning hooks into spears, and their plowshares into swords."

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
21. And, far too often, more the latter than the former:.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:07 PM
Jun 2014

.

"And they shall beat their pruning hooks into spears, and their plowshares into swords."

~~~

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
155. And...there are many good life lessons in the Bible and in other great books.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:21 PM
Jun 2014

Hillary could do worse. It really is a two-edged sword.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
184. But as a Methodist, she should be far more actively working for social justice and not
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:43 AM
Jun 2014

so actively working for Wall Street money.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
183. Traditionally, Methodists are social reformers.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:41 AM
Jun 2014

John Wesley began the movement in England and preached to poor miners.

A key step in the development of Wesley's ministry was, like Whitefield, to travel and preach outdoors. In contrast to Whitefield's Calvinism, however, Wesley embraced the Arminian doctrines that dominated the Church of England at the time. Moving across Great Britain, North America and Ireland, he helped to form and organise small Christian groups that developed intensive and personal accountability, discipleship and religious instruction. Most importantly, he appointed itinerant, unordained evangelists to travel and preach as he did and to care for these groups of people. Under Wesley's direction, Methodists became leaders in many social issues of the day, including prison reform and abolitionism.

. . . .

Wesley defined the witness of the Spirit as: "an inward impression on the soul of believers, whereby the Spirit of God directly testifies to their spirit that they are the children of God." He based this doctrine upon certain Biblical passages (see Romans 8:15–16 as an example). This doctrine was closely related to his belief that salvation had to be "personal." In his view, a person must ultimately believe the Good News for himself or herself; no one could be in relation to God for another.

Sanctification he described in 1790 as the "grand depositum which God has lodged with the people called `Methodists'." Wesley taught that sanctification was obtainable after justification by faith, between justification and death. He did not contend for "sinless perfection"; rather, he contended that a Christian could be made "perfect in love". (Wesley studied Eastern Orthodoxy and particularly the doctrine of Theosis). This love would mean, first of all, that a believer's motives, rather than being self-centred, would be guided by the deep desire to please God. One would be able to keep from committing what Wesley called, "sin rightly so-called." By this he meant a conscious or intentional breach of God's will or laws. A person could still be able to sin, but intentional or wilful sin could be avoided.

Secondly, to be made perfect in love meant, for Wesley, that a Christian could live with a primary guiding regard for others and their welfare. He based this on Christ's quote that the second great command is "to love your neighbour as you love yourself." In his view, this orientation would cause a person to avoid any number of sins against his neighbour. This love, plus the love for God that could be the central focus of a person's faith, would be what Wesley referred to as "a fulfilment of the law of Christ."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wesley

I was raised a Methodist and think highly of the religion. I think Hillary Clinton is sincere about her religion, and that is good. I just don't think she would make a good candidate in 2016 unless the Republicans nominate someone quite extreme -- which they well could.

I prefer Elizabeth Warren. I think she speaks better to the problems of our time.

From her book, I gathered that Elizabeth Warren is also religious. Most Americans are.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
4. This stuff has always made me nervous,
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:44 PM
Jun 2014

although there is some reason to indicate that Hill may be generally a mainstream Methodist or something. Lots of Methodists, UCCers, etc. are solidly in the liberal camp (although I would never accuse Hill of liberalism).

alsame

(7,784 posts)
17. She was part of The Fellowship in DC,
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:53 PM
Jun 2014

which always made me nervous. This is a good article about her faith from 2007.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics?page=1


Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

<snip>

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family&quot , a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

Clinton declined our requests for an interview about her faith, but in Living History, she describes her first encounter with Fellowship leader Doug Coe at a 1993 lunch with her prayer cell at the Cedars, the Fellowship's majestic estate on the Potomac. Coe, she writes, "is a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
96. I seem to recall her Methodism was discussed during Bill's first prez campaign
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:15 PM
Jun 2014

I remember a reference to seeing her on the campaign bus/plane reading a "well-thumbed and bookmarked Bible."

Methodism is mainstream, and Methodists are well represented in the social justice movement.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
111. Warren has like a childhood bible from third grade
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:01 PM
Jun 2014

. . . and she insisted on being sworn in on it, I think.



“It’s a pretty old Bible, and I guess that’s why it’s got nicks and dings all over it,” she said.

It’s a King James Bible, from which she’s been known to quote.

“Oh, I do,” she said. “I confess, I’m a King James fan. I understand the world has moved on, but for me it’ll always be with King James.”


http://www.wbur.org/2013/01/04/warren-first-women-senator

Nay

(12,051 posts)
115. It's not her Methodism that makes us queasy. It's her long association with
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:11 PM
Jun 2014

The Family, a secretive RW theocratic group with a large property near DC. She's been going there for YEARS. What would possess a Democrat, esp. one with presidential aspirations, to associate so long with very conservative and theocratic politicians and religious figureheads?

If you had a friend who volunteered at the ASPCA shelter, but you found out that she also loved to go to dogfights where the dogs fought to the death, wouldn't you see a huge disconnect inside this person? Would you believe that this person wanted to save animals from abuse, or would you think this person thought abuse was OK?

It's the same with Ms. Clinton. Is she a democrat or a conservative theocrat? Why would she be interested at all in an organization like the Family? Aren't there any big Methodist churches in DC where she could actually participate in social justice activities? What about joining the Friends or Quakers? Or an ecumenical group that focused on social justice rather than secrecy and theocracy?

It's a bad sign, folks.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
160. you grow up. You're the one with all of the conspiracy talk
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:37 PM
Jun 2014

. . . secret meetings . . . conspiracy nonsense without a shred of evidence that Clinton has leveraged ANYTHING other than prayer out of that relationship. This is the subject of loonies and demagogues, imo.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
167. I guess by all the fake outrage everyone here must be an atheist.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:13 AM
Jun 2014

This place would object to Hillary choosing pink panties over green ones. Anything is an excuse to bash her.

Pathetic and desperate...........




JI7

(89,174 posts)
6. it's politics, and part of her setting up her response when the whole Bill Cheating thing comes up
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:46 PM
Jun 2014

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
7. Well, that's it for me. I'll still vote for her if she the nominee but, I have NO faith in any
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:46 PM
Jun 2014

leader who is primarily following Biblical law to make political and social decisions effecting us all.

I believe she has clearly "shown her hand" and I don't like what I see.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
38. Why? My lifelong FDR Democrat voting Grandmother and Grandfather were Church going folk their
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:22 PM
Jun 2014

whole lives which included teaching Sunday School and each of them would tell you that they were guided by the Bible....and they believed in the New Testament as the NEW Covenant and focused their life decision based on the Sermon on the Mount teachings... Hardly the sinister types those on this thread are suggesting...My Grandfather spent a few years as his state's Conservation Director...total volunteer position...My grandmother volunteered at the local hospital taking care of babies and my Grandfather was also a volunteer fireman....So suggesting that Church going is a criteria on deciding whether one is worthy of holding office is pretty low indeed.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
137. Nobody is suggesting that.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:19 PM
Jun 2014

It's the Christian Dominionist thing that's got everyone upset. Have you read Sharlet's book The Family?

From the Amazon page--

They insist they are just a group of friends, yet they funnel millions of dollars through tax-free corporations. They claim to disdain politics, but congressmen of both parties describe them as the most influential religious organization in Washington. They say they are not Christians, but simply believers.

Behind the scenes at every National Prayer Breakfast since 1953 has been the Family, an elite network dedicated to a religion of power for the powerful. Their goal is "Jesus plus nothing." Their method is backroom diplomacy. The Family is the startling story of how their faith—part free-market fundamentalism, part imperial ambition—has come to be interwoven with the affairs of nations around the world.
 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
144. who decided she was a Dominionist?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:32 PM
Jun 2014

My grandparents would worship alongside those of the "fundamentalist" persuasion even though they may not have agreed with everything they believe by the way.....

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
147. Have you read the book?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:34 PM
Jun 2014

We don't know the secrets of her soul, but we do know something about the people she is choosing to associate with here.

alp227

(31,961 posts)
91. " following Biblical law to make political and social decisions effecting us all. "
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:01 PM
Jun 2014

Uhh, I feel a bit creeped out by the path you're going on. Would you say that Keith Ellison "follows Sharia law to make political and social decisions affecting us all"? I could care less about Hillary's political beliefs but would stay away from painting her as a theocrat.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
56. they were loyal Democrats....My grandfather after serving overseas...joined the CCC's
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:33 PM
Jun 2014

they both did lots of great volunteer work and both were very active in their Churches. They also didn't believe in judging other peoples religious beliefs. My grandmother said "I won't know anything for sure until I get there". So I do not see their "beliefs" to be a negative for them at all!

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
10. Oh, no -
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:48 PM
Jun 2014

"...infected into people when they're around Jesus talk" - interesting Freudian slip by the preacher.

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
69. No doubt.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:52 PM
Jun 2014

The teabaggers won't be running to the polls for her either.

Who in the fuck is she trying to win over?

alp227

(31,961 posts)
92. Do you not think Christianity has become a de facto litmus test for high profile public office?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:02 PM
Jun 2014

Remember all the (unfounded) complaints and rumors about "OBAMA BEING A MUSLIM"? (And is it true that Hillary's people came up with that B.S.?) Unfortunately, there are lots of voters in America (even left leaning or moderate ones) who won't vote for non-Christian candidates.

temporary311

(954 posts)
109. "Has become" implies
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:58 PM
Jun 2014

that it's a recent development. In that case, I don't agree with you. I think it's been a litmus test since the beginning.

Drew Richards

(1,558 posts)
14. Yeah shes not running yet...next shes gonna tell us she almost joined a convent till she met
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:53 PM
Jun 2014

Bill...no no thats too catholic maybe...volenteer for rural support in the ozarks...whatever....you cant rewrite history to suit you,unless you're a republican....hmmm.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
15. here's an old article: Elizabeth Warren Cites Matthew 25 Bible Passage in DNC Speech
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:53 PM
Jun 2014

On Wednesday night at the DNC, Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren drew attention to a New Testament passage that has had increasing significance for the Democratic Party: the Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 25. “ ‘In as much as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me,’ ” she said, quoting Jesus. “The passage teaches about God in each of us,” she continued, “that we are bound to each other, and we are called to act — not to sit, not to wait — but to act, all of us together.”

The Bible passage became popular among Democrats in 2008, when strategist Mara Vanderslice founded the Matthew 25 Network, a grassroots PAC designed to organize the Christian left for Obama. Since then, Democrats have used Jesus’ message of caring for the poor to connect with evangelicals on issues ranging from environmentalism to the economy.

“Ms. Warren, like Democrats throughout the week, embodied the faith of the Democratic Party for the nation to see and hear,” explains Democratic consultant Burns Strider. “She showcased the compassion, authenticity and comfort of articulating the shared American values Democrats largely derive from a faith in God.”

Warren’s speech also aligned with efforts of the Democratic National Committee’s faith-outreach team. At a convention panel earlier on Wednesday, speakers stressed that the Affordable Care Act exemplifies the President’s concern for the poor. “Elizabeth Warren’s terrific speech last night reaffirmed the vision she shares with President Obama that every American deserves the opportunity to reach our fullest God-given potential,” DNC deputy director of faith outreach Joshua Dickson says. “Her inclusion of Matthew 25: 40 was another reminder of the important role people of faith and faith traditions continue to play in the Democratic Party and reflects the core value that she and the President share.”


http://swampland.time.com/2012/09/06/democrats-favorite-biblical-passage-matthew-25/


But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
18. and was Senator Warren ever closely associated with the uber conservative nutwads of
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 05:59 PM
Jun 2014

"The Fellowship"?

Has she said that the bible is the biggest influence on her political thinking?

Comparing E. Warren citing ONE FRICKING BIBLE PASSAGE to Hillary's religious bullshit is ludicrous.

ANYONE BUT HILLY

BeyondGeography

(39,283 posts)
20. Warren was a registered Republican from 91-96
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:06 PM
Jun 2014

That's dumber and more wrong than anything Hillary ever said or did. I forgive her, but I try to be the forgiving type.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
23. she wouldn't say if she voted for Reagan or not ( probably means she did)
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:08 PM
Jun 2014

"I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets. I think that is not true anymore," Warren said. "I was a Republican at a time when I felt like there was a problem that the markets were under a lot more strain. It worried me whether or not the government played too activist a role."

Warren admitted though that she voted for both Democrats and Republicans.

“There should be some Republicans and some Democrats,” Warren said.

But she declined to say whether she voted for Ronald Reagan in either his first presidential campaign or his reelection campaign.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/189657--liberal-favorite-elizabeth-warren-admits-she-was-a-republican#ixzz34hgu1uiH

Response to OKNancy (Reply #23)

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
73. very true
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:58 PM
Jun 2014

and I really don't care if she changed her mind. I like her very much. It's the hypocrisy and OTT stuff about Hillary Clinton that prompted my post. Many politicians have a change of heart/opinion.

greatauntoftriplets

(175,697 posts)
28. I've never been a Republican in any way, shape or form.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:13 PM
Jun 2014

Maybe I should run. Two years-plus before the election and it's getting beyond ridiculous already. No one's even announced but you'd think the election was next week.

BeyondGeography

(39,283 posts)
159. It's not even close, because being a Republican was Warren's idea
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:36 PM
Jun 2014

War in Iraq was not Hillary's idea. She was a legislator who sorely miscalculated on how to vote on someone else's bill, giving authority to someone else to make a decision. That's nothing compared with choosing to belong to a party that regularly used racism and hatred to divert working and middle class people from their economic self-interest. By the mid-90's, that had been going on since 1968.

Glad Warren figured out she was in a bad place somewhere in her 40's. And some people here give Hillary a hard time for being a Goldwater Girl...

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
22. conspiracy hogwash
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:07 PM
Jun 2014

. . . and you should know that. Any port's good enough in your anti-Hillary storm, I see.

You're bordering on religious hate for questioning Hillary's practice of her faith. Unless you have something specific she's done wrong associated with her faith . . . this is slippery and despicable politics from you.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
24. I've provided evidence that she was associated with The Fellowship. YOU
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:10 PM
Jun 2014

provide some evidence that she wasn't and then we'll see who's relating facts. Clue: NOT YOU>

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
31. That Is Old News, Ma'am: The Question Is, What Meaning Can Accurately Be Ascribed To It?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:15 PM
Jun 2014

If you think it means something, say what you think it means, and why you think it means that, and then there will be something to discuss.

The fact in isolation means nothing.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
47. associated with the fellowship, okay
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:27 PM
Jun 2014

. . . in what do you believe that relationship with the praying legislators manifested itself in Hillary Clinton's political or personal behavior?

The most I'm getting from your screed is that she prayed with republicans and you're stoked about it. I think you're trying to impart a view of this as something dark and sinister. Secret prayers . . . what's next? Meetings in catacombs under the Capitol?

This is slippery and suggestive politics which isn't a new tale but one that is used to evoke a response to something not evident or likely even existent.

Are you aware that what you're doing here with this is how religion has been used in politics over the history of our government to cast aspersions and suspicion on rivals? It's as old as politics itself, in fact.

bigtree

(85,917 posts)
158. it's a politician that is popular evoking her religious beliefs
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:34 PM
Jun 2014

. . . I'm looking to see if there's some special consideration given by the critics of Hillary Clinton to the very similar expressions of faith that Sen. Warren has often made in public.

It's a political response to a political attack on Clinton. Just looking to measure the consistency of some of these critics here.

I'm of the same mind as Jefferson (as I included in that post): It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
19. Methodists take pride in good works and humanitarian activities
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jun 2014

This over-the-top criticism of Clinton is really getting ridiculous.

( I'm an atheist by the way )

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
26. I don't care what you are. that's your business.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:11 PM
Jun 2014

Clinton is a shameless opportunist and corporate toady indebted to the banking industry.

I intend to oppose her with facts- like this op. A lot.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
51. How long do you think you would last on DU if you said...
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:29 PM
Jun 2014

"Elizabeth Warren is a shameless opportunist and corporate toady indebted to the banking industry"?


But you demand the bandwidth to say it about the probable next Democratic Presidential nominee if not President...and on a Democratic Forum. Repeatedly over and over...day in and day out. As if this is the right place to poison the well...

It is getting beyond ridiculous....

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
119. I'd be a liar in that case, and that I am not.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:35 PM
Jun 2014

You don't like my criticism of Hillary but I have every right to oppose her until and unless she becomes the dem nominee.

I don't demand anything. I avail myself of the liberty to criticize her and use facts to bolster my arguments.

Think I shouldn't be able to? Alert. (and I'm sure you do, Vanilla.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
120. Yeah and then you are going to vote for her right?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:37 PM
Jun 2014

right? right?

So treat her with the same respect she would receive on FreeRepublic, campaign venomously against her, just like one of them would right here on DU, and then vote for her if she wins the primary?

Otherwise by this premise should any Freeper be allowed to come here and campaign against Hillary Clinton too..."just until the Primary don't you know"?

Do I understand this correctly?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
124. No. And if she's the nominee, I will take a hiatus from DU
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:47 PM
Jun 2014

and no, it's not like a freeper. I criticize her from the left- not that you have a clue as to liberal sentiments of any kind.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
125. and what will you do if she becomes President?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:52 PM
Jun 2014

I know what ideologues are and I know both sides have them too....

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
126. um, nope not an ideologue. If I were I would hardly be defending Obama on Iraq
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:58 PM
Jun 2014

Unlike you, I don't buy my beliefs wholesale. And if she becomes president, I'll praise her if she does things I consider praiseworthy and criticize her if she does things I believe are worthy of criticism.

Critical thinking. Try it, vanilla. Oh never mind. Why ask the impossible.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
129. and we both know better...IF she wins you will come here to do exactly what you are doing now....
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:00 PM
Jun 2014

no matter WHAT she does....exactly like you do for the current President...because it is never enough! A case of letting the good be the enemy of the perfect. And that is a tenet of the ideologues...

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
132. you "think" you know. Of course you do not.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:02 PM
Jun 2014

but continue with your dem party line adoration. Don't ever try thinking for yourself. Not that there's the slightest danger of that, nilla.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
134. from this reaction....I can tell I was spot on!
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:09 PM
Jun 2014

You damn skippy....I come from FDR Democrats for life....I AM a Democrat. and THIS is Democratic Underground.....whether ideologues like it or NOT!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
138. lol. wrong again, 'nilla. I am a democrat as well.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:20 PM
Jun 2014

and sorry, hon, but I'm not an ideologue. I'm an independent thinker. that appears to be a concept that eludes you, 'nilla.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
141. then what is YOUR definition of ideologue?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:28 PM
Jun 2014

you seem to have a different one then I have....

So let me see...I am sure Bill Clinton wasn't good enough.....I know Barack Obama is not good enough...and we already know if Hillary Clinton wins (because she will have the support of MOST Democrats in the Primary) she will not be good enough for you either....

But you are not an ideologue....

"an adherent of an ideology, especially one who is uncompromising and dogmatic."

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
152. I already gave you an example.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:46 PM
Jun 2014

you didn't respond, I don't believe.

Hey, vanilla, what is your definition of a mindless zombie partisan hack and when did you stop beating...

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
178. I don't think you know what ideologue means.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:38 AM
Jun 2014

Because you keep complaining about "them" and then you post that post and other posts that are basically complaining in advance of any and all criticism a Democrat will get because you seem to think they shouldn't get any criticism what so ever.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
121. oh I won't. I'm sure you'll be thrilled to hear
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:38 PM
Jun 2014

that I my blood pressure is excellent. My heart function is great (that's the word they used after I had an electro-cardiogram, and I thoroughly enjoy my life- gardening, art, writing, etc. Oh, and I love summer in VT.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
192. then why so vitriolic?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:08 AM
Jun 2014

If you are so innocent of hatred. By the wayit IS hatred to those reading you whethr you admit it or not!

T Roosevelt

(4,105 posts)
70. So your implication is
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:54 PM
Jun 2014

that he let politics trump is religious beliefs, but somehow Hillary (or any Democrat) wouldn't? Please...

bmbmd

(3,088 posts)
106. Not only is she a Methodist,
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:55 PM
Jun 2014

But she read the book. The book is about treating people with respect, and helping those less fortunate. There is no great mystery, and to read it is to be influenced.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
164. This place is getting ridiculous.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:09 AM
Jun 2014

The bullshit is knee deep. That's why I don't really care what they say here about Hillary. I hope she runs. It'll be a blast to watch heads explode.

BootinUp

(46,924 posts)
25. The next President knows how to play the game
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:11 PM
Jun 2014

Thats the take away folks. And, for some of us raised in a very religious home, its not hard to imagine she is actually telling the truth.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
27. hey, I know. let's just have a coronation. Hilly is destined to be President. She deserves it.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:12 PM
Jun 2014

It's her turn.

BootinUp

(46,924 posts)
30. Its a prediction based on years of observation, you know what you
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:14 PM
Jun 2014

can do with your snark dont you?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
32. no, do tell what I can do with my "snark".
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:15 PM
Jun 2014

And gee, remember 2008? Or did that example elude your ever so keen political eye?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
33. Yes, yes. We must have politicians blathering about how the bible is their greatest political
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:16 PM
Jun 2014

influence and inspiration.

Blatant ugly pandering. fuck that.

longship

(40,416 posts)
39. The Bible as a ventriloquist dummy.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:23 PM
Jun 2014

Where politics is concerned, whenever the Bible is mentioned it is always as a ventriloquist dummy. It says whatever is convenient for your political position -- no matter what that position is. We've seen enough of the same throughout history, undoubtedly since since the beginning of human culture.

We have to stomach that bullshit from the theocratic Republicans, but hell if I am going to take it from a Democrat.

Hillary supports The Family that weird religious house in DC that houses congress critters who have some pretty fucking warped ideas.

I hope that she does not run for president. I am most uncomfortable with the idea of her doing so.

PumpkinAle

(1,210 posts)
43. She is recruiting
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:26 PM
Jun 2014

there is nothing in the Bible that can not be attributed to the Golden Rule - which transcends all religions.

Depending on which version she reads the Bible contains violence, cruelty and intolerance - not a lot of wisdom and comfort.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
44. That's unfortunate.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:26 PM
Jun 2014

If she's sincere, we're in trouble. If she's just pandering, well, that's sad too.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
45. Fake fake fake
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:26 PM
Jun 2014

Inb4 the Hillary brigade (many of whom regularly disapprove of religion on DU) comes to explain this as something positive.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
50. The woman rebrands herself more than Madonna.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:29 PM
Jun 2014

I guess the Rambo dodging sniper fire Hillary and the Joad family matriarch Hillary didn't poll well.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
58. It is not the Bible that worries me - it is the Fellowship group she prays with. I want nothing to
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:35 PM
Jun 2014

do with them. What is she doing with that bunch of crooks.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
59. She has a very low opinion of the intelligence
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:35 PM
Jun 2014

of the American voter. The Jesus people will still hate her guts and Americans with brains will be turned off by the shameless pandering.

She doesn't believe in anything beyond getting elected and the country deserves better.

edgineered

(2,101 posts)
63. Agreeing with cali,
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:39 PM
Jun 2014

HRC is without a moral compass guiding her political choices. If Clinton thinks she'll get votes by saying this, she'll say it. None the less, she is a war hawk, indebted to wall street, corporations, pac's and who knows what else. I don't doubt for a minute that she prayed for the doom of her opponents, along with her hawkish R friends, by way of some biblical wrath.

spin

(17,493 posts)
66. I've seen many politicians say that the Bible is an important influence in their lives. ...
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 06:46 PM
Jun 2014

In my opinion most probably have never read it and if they have they didn't understand it.

But judging others is above my pay grade. Still I think it's fair to say that if more politicians had read and understood the message in the Bible we would have far less corruption in our government and a lot more honesty.

Perhaps Hillary is actually very religious and perhaps not. Perhaps she is just a typical politician and perhaps she is the rare exception. I really can't say.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
117. The fact that she chose The Fellowship to worship with is the problem....
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:28 PM
Jun 2014

she's been doing that ever since Bill was in the WH. When she was just the First Lady, well, no one cared much -- but we still wondered why THAT group. They are ultra-conservative theocrats.

A liberal churchgoer interested in social justice generally would have NOTHING to do with such a group because its beliefs are diametrically opposite of social justice. It would be like a religious civil rights activist joining the local KKK Baptist Church.

THAT'S why people are remarking on it.

Response to cali (Original post)

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
76. It's like she's making a case to NOT vote for her
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 07:06 PM
Jun 2014
John McCain's family memoir and autobiography Faith of My Fathers and George W. Bush's memoir Decision Points.


I would only own those books if they were on the dollar shelf or free and I needed something to shoot at.
 

Caretha

(2,737 posts)
101. Hehe
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:36 PM
Jun 2014

Now that's the truth like I like to read it. You must be from the "Pragmatic Reality Brigade" that likes to thumb their noses at others BS.

Keep it up friend.

dsc

(52,130 posts)
81. yeah let's get the Bible thumpers out of politics
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 07:19 PM
Jun 2014

I sure wouldn't want to live under Martin Luther King Jr., or William Barber to name two. in case it is needed.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
82. MLK was an elected politician? News to me. In fact, he wasn't a politician at all
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 07:21 PM
Jun 2014

and I have no idea who William Barber is/was.

dsc

(52,130 posts)
85. He is leading the Moral Monday protests in North Carolina
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 07:26 PM
Jun 2014

trying to rescue the state from the Republicans but I guess we shouldn't listen to him since he is just a Bible thumper, better to listen to those who spout Ayn Rand.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
84. I just threw up in my mouth little ....
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 07:23 PM
Jun 2014

She is a brilliant woman, scholar and politician but dear Goddess the machinations are so damned transparent.

Please do not run for President, Madam Secretary.

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
87. I won't dictate anyone's sources of inspiration. If this is what she takes from it I approve.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 07:45 PM
Jun 2014

"I have always cherished the Methodist Church because it gave us the great gift of personal salvation but also the great obligation of social gospel," Clinton told the crowd. "And I took that very seriously and have tried, tried to be guided in my own life ever since as an advocate for children and families, for women and men around the world who are oppressed and persecuted, denied their human rights and human dignity."

"Like the disciples of Jesus, we cannot look away, we cannot let those in need fend for themselves and live with ourselves," the wife of former U.S. President Bill Clinton continued. "We are all in this together."

This is a bad thing?

hunter

(38,264 posts)
93. The Bible twisted my thinking in a big way too, Hillary.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:06 PM
Jun 2014

I read The Book cover-to-cover when I was seven years old. Bad, bad shit and my young inexperienced somewhat autistic mind missed most of the metaphors. I was a very early reader of everything and the child of a religiously insane mom. Maybe you know how it goes.

Ezekiel's guys with giant schlongs spewing semen like stallions, that was real man. (Ezekiel 23:20; some translations more explicit than others.)

My mom eventually found home with the Quakers and family life got better. No more getting kicked out of churches (or once an entire nation...) just because my mom had God's private phone number and the preacher, bishop, or authorities didn't. My mom is still the sort who would get into a fist fight with a Pope, and he would lose. God save Peter when my mom is in line at the Pearly Gates. There will be a riot. I suspect she'll pass, she is impeccably (sometimes horrifyingly and inappropriately) honest, but there will be many trap doors in the heavenly-clouds-before-the-gates opening up to hell that day.

Sigh. Alas I am a simpleton. The biggest influence on my thinking ever was the National Semiconductor-CMOS Databook.

Or perhaps the Boys' Second Book of Radio and Electronics which a subversive third grade teacher let me keep at home for an entire semester.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
99. I don't trust people that follow a bronze age book full of murder, stonings and rape
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:29 PM
Jun 2014

I read the damn thing cover to cover and the "good guys" are into killing entire villages of men women and children, oh wait, I get now why she supported blowing up Iraq! (it was the Godly thing to do)

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
102. Profiles on the Right: “The Family,” aka “The Fellowship,”
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:38 PM
Jun 2014
The Fellowship is best known for its annual National Prayer Breakfast, which is traditionally attended by foreign dignitaries and prominent U.S. politicians, including the president. But its real power lies in the relationships it has forged with business, political, and religious leaders around the globe.

The Fellowship largely avoided public scrutiny until 2009, when its involvement in Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill became public. Uganda has been the object of special attention within the organization since 1986, when President Yoweri Museveni came to power and quickly became one of The Fellowship’s most-prized recruits.

Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK), the organization’s point person for Africa, has for years cultivated personal friendships with rising Fellowship members and with the political elite in Uganda. According to Jeff Sharlet, author of a best-selling book about The Fellowship, Inhofe was “designated as partner for 11 African leaders, including the presidents of Burundi, Rwanda, and Uganda, relationships supported by funds raised by teams of American businessmen and religious activists.” The organization’s 2003-04 budget included $70,000 for Inhofe to travel to Uganda.

Former U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback (now the governor of Kansas) is another prominent and influential Fellowship member who maintained close ties to President Museveni, and who helped shape U.S. policy toward the nation. “As we give foreign aid to Uganda,” Sharlet said of Inhofe and Brownback, “these are the people who are in a position to steer that money.”

http://www.politicalresearch.org/profiles-on-the-right-the-family-aka-the-fellowship-aka-c-street/


The Fellowship: A Secret Christian Fundamentalist Organization

November 30, 2009

There is a secretive group known as “The Fellowship,” or “The Family,” one of the most powerful, well-connected Christian fundamentalist movements in the United States. The Fellowship’s membership includes congressmen, corporate leaders, generals and foreign heads of state.

The Fellowship is anti-labor, anti-gay, and pro-life. It is also anti-communist, but not necessarily a firm believer in democracy. Rather, it favors a totalitarianism for Christ, a sort of Christian theocracy. In foreign policy, it promotes a “soft” U.S. expansionism.

Is the Fellowship a cult, cabal, or a right-wing conspiracy? Whatever it is, we should be concerned that a secretive, privately funded group — without public scrutiny — is profoundly influencing U.S. domestic and foreign policy.

Jeff Sharlet’s publications are the primary source of this article. Sharlet is a an author and journalist, who went undercover at Ivanwald, the Fellowship’s unofficial headquarters in Arlington, Virginia. His experience there plus interviews with insiders and research resulted in articles in Harper’s, Mother Jones, and Salon, and a New York Times bestselling book, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power. Recently, he was interviewed on NPR’s Fresh Air.

http://www.fogcityjournal.com/wordpress/1505/the-fellowship-a-secretive-christian-fundementalist-organization/

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
103. I believe it
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:40 PM
Jun 2014

The bible is so full of contratictions and gives something in one place and takes it away in another...

Kind of reminds me of most politicians, not just Clinton.

 

Caretha

(2,737 posts)
104. That seals it
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:44 PM
Jun 2014

Please throw me to the lions. I prefer them to pseudo politically convenient Christians.


“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

Response to cali (Original post)

 

bowens43

(16,064 posts)
107. That alone should be enough to disqualify her... truly fucking pathetic.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:57 PM
Jun 2014

How anyone could even consider her for the nomination is beyond me

Stargleamer

(1,979 posts)
108. It's this catering, this political calculus. . .
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 08:58 PM
Jun 2014

That I've always hated about her. In a similar vein, I think she voted for the Iraqi War Resolution because she was needlessly afraid not to, afraid of losing percentage points.

That said, I regret supporting Obama over her because of it. I think she was far less naive about the Republicans than he turned out to be. Also, I suspect she would have stood up to them more--she did mention once about a vast right-wing conspiracy.

Also, I've been told that Ecclesiastes can be rather interesting--I might check it out one day. ("Turn, Turn, Turn" by the Byrds (originally by Pete Seeger) was one of my favorite childhood songs (which my mother wouldn't hesitate to remind me had lyrics from the Bible).

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
113. Women of the Religious Right see Hillary as a Victim of a Man
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:06 PM
Jun 2014

who Betrayed Her.

She has great appeal amongst RW and all Females because she survived Bill's Liasons throughout their marriage. Survived and made Lemonaid out of Lemons....and achieved more prestige while carrying him along with her to repair his own image. They are both Survivors. It's a great American Story.

She is definitely going to push her victim appeal with Female Voters on the Right and Left because MORE FEMALES of Both Parties...vote than their male counterparts. She is a Super Star....and Bill is now in her glowing light also benefits with the rehab image of both of them. Policy is not important in POLITICS ....it's Image Rehab and manipulation by skilled folks in the business.

It's an excellent strategy for her......as long as she and her handlers think that female voters can be manipulated that way.

I think she overestimates her strategy....but, then...Who Knows. I give Female Voters more credit...but, then Image Manipulation seems to work very well these days.

no_hypocrisy

(45,774 posts)
123. Is Hillary Clinton still a member of The Fellowship?
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:41 PM
Jun 2014

Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics
For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulating—or living her faith?


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
133. 1) The pope is not a politician and he is not running for President. He is a religious
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:04 PM
Jun 2014

leader. 2) I have no problem with her religion. I have a problem with her opportunistic say anything shit and her pandering.

got that?

JI7

(89,174 posts)
170. but isn't it the Pope who should be held to a higher standard than a politician, after all she needs
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:19 AM
Jun 2014

to get votes and politicians who want to win, especially a presidential race will have to things like that.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
136. Say goodbye to my support. ..
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:15 PM
Jun 2014

If the Babble is the "single biggest influence on her thinking" then she has no place in the Whitehouse and most certainly won't get my support. ..

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
139. Great! Another so-called "Christian" chickenhawk. So, the Bible is her
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:22 PM
Jun 2014

biggest influence and she can stand to read confederate crap?

Is this who we want as our candidate? Really?

So very deeply embarrassing that her biggest influence is based on myths and ancient mythic thinking, especially after a time as Secy of State.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
140. This doesn't bother me. Her and her hubby's racist rhetoric in 2007-2008 does. Her association
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:27 PM
Jun 2014

with Barry Goldwater does. (she fondly referred to herself as a Goldwater Girl.) And her Republican roots do, plus DLCism, The Fellowship, etc. I can keep going....

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
169. Clinton: Obama Not Winning Over "Hard-Working Americans, White Americans"
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:16 AM
Jun 2014
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/08/clinton-obama-not-winning_n_100763.html

How can anyone have trust in this person and ignore all the absolutely atrocious things she says?

HARD WORKING WHITE AMERICANS? WTF!
 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
203. I never understood it. I never understood the black people who just swept
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:27 PM
Jun 2014

what she said under the rug. That, along with her comments re: MLK, Jr. vs. LBJ. Her comments re: assassination of Robert Kennedy; her husband's comments about Jesse Jackson; him going on Rush Limbaugh's show; her folks going on Faux News. Geraldine Ferraro's race-baiting. I could go on and on.

They both were incredibly disgusting.

"He's a Christian...as far as I know"! (wink, wink...hint, hint)

Absolutely disgusting!!!!!!!

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
205. This is why I say if Hillary runs this time
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:32 PM
Jun 2014

she will have a whole lot more baggage to explain than she had in '08.

The Clinton campaign went off the rails - they were complacent and lazy thinking it was hers if she wants it. And pow!, they were wrong, and scrambled in a tizzy - and in their disorientation ended up saying some absolutely unforgivable and stupid things as a last ditch effort to go for all broke. I don't think at that time they would have thought about running again and so foolishly let loose the omgs of political war.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
206. The same thing is happening this time around. I don't like the sense of entitlement.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:42 PM
Jun 2014

It may not be her fault, but we as Democrats don't usually behave this way. This is what the Republicans do--they exalt their leaders. They tag them for office. We *used* to make our leaders EARN their way. Obama had to earn his way, fair and square. Twice now, Hillary has been donned with entitlement. Being First Lady and a senator for 4 years doesn't entitle one for the presidency. I don't get it. They don't even think that Joe Biden who has a 40-year history as a senator, 8 years as Vice President and a statesman is good enough. Or, sitting Democratic governors who have proven records are as qualified are good enough. It's weird. Used to be that executive experience alone was qualification.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
163. Apparently Hillary's bible says when you lie, lie Big... Tuzla big.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:08 AM
Jun 2014

Here she goes again sticking feet in mouth. I could read that as - if she does become President, she will be ruling with her religious beliefs rather than her whatever other else she has.

Was it only last week she was moaning about how broke her and Bill were?

geeze, what a gaff machine.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
168. Sweets, the day I can vote in Canada is the day I will care
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:15 AM
Jun 2014

what you have to say about American politics.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
171. You seem to be afraid to face the truth about Hillary's large ability to lie.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:19 AM
Jun 2014

Canada is not a swear word or a denigration of a person, like you intend it to be.

And as I have mentioned before, when George Bush went to war it could very well have included Canada if Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien had not refused. If there was a Harper Conservative at that time, things may have gone differently.

So please don't tell me this is none of my business, it makes you look foolish and not very well informed.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
179. Look, I can't stand Hillary and don't want her to be president, but she was not moaning
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:45 AM
Jun 2014

about how broke she and Bill were. They went $12mn into debt over all the bs witch hunts they had to deal with. Of course they're fine now as they command high speaking fees. Doesn't change the fact that they went that much into debt due to the "vast right wing conspiracy" that exists to this day in different forms. You complain about it all the time when it's against Obama.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
185. By my figures the Clintons have "earned" close to 5 million a year since
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 08:37 AM
Jun 2014

they left the WH. That's incredible and a little suspicious.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
196. That is a lot!
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:18 PM
Jun 2014

Like I said, I don't like her and I also don't trust her. And I don't think Bill was one of our best presidents either. But they did get shafted by that whole impeachment and other bs that the RW came after them on.

applegrove

(118,020 posts)
173. I am agnostic but was most heavily
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:54 AM
Jun 2014

influenced by two grandmothers who were staunch presbyterians. I would say the bible influenced me more than any other book even though I did not read the old testament till I was 33. And still have not read the new testament.It is by far the biggest influencer of Western culture.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
174. fine, give us a verse or two (other than "Jesus wept," though it'd seem appropriate in this case)
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:59 AM
Jun 2014

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
175. Pathetic. The bible is not a suitable source for guidance in the political world.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:27 AM
Jun 2014

She should be embarrassed to say that in this time of religious wackadoodles in congress.



When the hell are Dem leaders going to wake up and realize they should be playing to the Dem base and they will get plenty of moderates and even some Republicans by doing so? Populism will work. Just try it. Stand for policies and programs that actually help people and they will vote for you. It ain't rocket science.

fujiyama

(15,185 posts)
182. Is her favorite political philosopher Jesus?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 03:17 AM
Jun 2014

Honestly, my first reaction to this is I just started cracking up. This is some truly A-grade, first class pandering to what seems evident to be a nation of dolts.

In all seriousness though, how does an ancient book of fables, incoherent ramblings by delusional egomaniacs, rife with contradictions influence one's thinking so greatly? What is her comment supposed to really mean?

mike_c

(36,214 posts)
193. oh FFS, what lame nonsense to start the day with....
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:26 AM
Jun 2014

I mean HRC's comments, not the OP.

Ask yourself, "if HRC is planning to run for president, WHY does she want the job?" When I ask that question, the answer I'm looking for is "she wants to fix this or change that." I want some statement of vision, something that the potential candidate stands for.

What does HRC stand for? What wrongs will she right?

In the absence of those things, the only reasons I can think of for wanting a job like POTUS are all the wrong reasons. Desire for power. Belief in destiny. Wanting to "win" at all costs. Feeling like it's her turn.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
197. I agree with you now, cali. Didnt' before.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 12:23 PM
Jun 2014

Earlier today I read the Mother Jones article you cited, and this one from Daily Beast

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/25/obama-the-family-and-uganda-s-anti-gay-christian-mafia.html

in which she says The Family leader, Doug Coe is:

“a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God.”


Before today I didn't like Hillary much, but I wasn't actively against her. Now I'm with you, I'll do anything I can to oppose her for the nomination. If she gets it, which I doubt, I may just focus my support activities on Congress.

Stick a fork in her, she is DONE as far as I'm concerned, after what I learned today. No way, no how will I support somebody who is in bed enough with The Family to attend their small cell prayer group for EIGHT YEARS, That is a cult, not a valid Christian belief. (And she can read her Bible all she wants, she doesn't do what it says.)



You were right, cali. Thanks! to you and other DUers (like Luminous Animal) who made a point of this enough for me to finally check it out. Ewww, just ewww. She creeps me out.

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
198. Here's why this is worrisome for Dems
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:00 PM
Jun 2014

It's got nothing to do with the Bible or her answer per se; Jimmy Carter would answer that question the same way, and he has nary a detractor on these boards.

No, the problem is how patently, utterly false it feels. Seriously, does anyone here believe that answer? A proud 60s feminist, a product of an elite liberal arts education, a Yale-educated lawyer -- the Bible? No, it rings horribly false, not only on its face but because Hillary has been a public figure for over 20 years and never once evidenced any significant religiosity.

And the reason that's a problem -- instead of, say, just your normal pandering -- is that she already has a reputation as someone who will say anything in the service of her own ambition. That particular trait disgusts people; it certainly helped kill Romney in 2012. And her opponents are going to exploit the hell out of that.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
200. There is no way that I would ever vote for her.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:02 PM
Jun 2014

Living in an uber bible thumping state I have seen just how much damage these people can do to a state. The quickest way to lose my vote is when a politician starts to talke about how important their faith is in his/her life. I have seen way to much hyprocicy on the issue to ever take them serious.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
201. Whatever turns you on, as we used to say
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:06 PM
Jun 2014

BUT with that, I don't want other people's turn on to became FORCED on ME.

0rganism

(23,855 posts)
204. All this means is she's running in 2016
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:32 PM
Jun 2014

Any politician who gets asked the favorite book question and doesn't answer "Bible" within 3 seconds is not considering a national candidacy in this country.

Go ahead, try answering with Kant's "Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals" and see how far that gets you.

joe_sixpack

(721 posts)
207. A little pandering and condescension is to be expected
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:57 PM
Jun 2014

From politicians, is it not? Do we really think she's that different? And after all, whatever helps her win can be excused once she's elected and starts changing the world for the better.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
208. This is why I don't like Hillary
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 05:02 PM
Jun 2014

She is soundbyte hungry.

I don't like phony bullshit, and she has always handed it out. I know there are plenty of phony politicians in this world, but she stands on the cusp of phony and fictitious WAY too much.

It's like a friend that you WANT to like because they are successful, love your children and keeps their lawn regularly cut, but they are so fake you know they probably either have a meth lab in the basement or a cockfighting racket going.

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