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Egnever

(21,506 posts)
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 10:55 PM Jun 2014

Was Joe Biden right?

Recent events in Iraq call attention to his prediction nearly a decade ago that the war-torn nation was heading toward a breakup along sectarian lines — and to a prescription he offered to try to manage that reality by granting Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds greater autonomy over various parts of the country.

In other words: While Biden may have taken a beating repeatedly in recent years for some foreign policy calls he’s made, his judgment on Iraq’s capacity to stay united now looks almost prescient.


http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/joe-biden-iraq-107858.html

Good to see Joe get some credit for his call years ago. Lord knows he took a lot of heat for it back then.



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Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
3. Well, he voted in 2002 to allow Bush to attack Iraq,
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:02 PM
Jun 2014

so his prescience regarding this country certainly has a mixed history.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
4. I don't agree with the premise
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:03 PM
Jun 2014

I don't agree with the premise that US politicians ought ever to be in a position to "grant" people half a world away, in countries that the US illegally and immorally invaded and destroyed, "greater autonomy" whether here or there. I don't give a shit what after the fact pretext is dredged up to explain their fucking opinions. The USA destroyed Iraq, killed over 100,000 people there, destroyed their infrastructure, their culture, and USA politicians have no business preaching at the Iraqi people.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
8. We can either help to fix the problems we create
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:12 AM
Jun 2014

or we can complain that we shouldn't have created the problem.

He chose the former. You're choosing the later.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
9. Well, for some reason I don't think the USA understands the concept "solution".
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:40 AM
Jun 2014

Not in any way that doesn't involve massive MIC involvement and mondo profits for the fascist controllers.
Just colour me sceptical about your so-called "solution", whatever it is.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
11. For this? There isn't a good solution
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:45 AM
Jun 2014

The good solution was to 1) not invade. When we passed that up, our next good solution was 2) undo the UK's fuckup of creating Iraq in the first place without giving a damn about sectarian lines. Which is what Biden was talking about.

Since we passed that up, the most we can do to help is to try and incentivize and mediate. However, those are rather unlikely to settle down a conflict that's been raging for over 1000 years.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
12. jeez louise! You still think the USA is in the game to HELP Iraq?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:03 AM
Jun 2014

What kind of world are you living in?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
13. There are some who do, and some who don't.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:10 AM
Jun 2014

The fact that Cheney and friends are out to loot Iraq does not mean everyone is out to loot Iraq.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
14. The USA fucking well destroyed IRAQ!
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:17 AM
Jun 2014

Libya.
Now Syria.
It is droning Yemen.
....

The USA is not in the game to help Iraq!

Lord love a duck....

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
15. Actually, the UK destroyed Iraq.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 02:27 AM
Jun 2014

When the empire was collapsing, the UK divided the middle east into the current countries. Unfortunately they didn't pay attention to any sectarian lines. As a result, you get Kurds split between Iraq, Turkey and others, Sunis split between parts of Syria, Jordan and Iraq, and Shiites split between Iran and Iraq.

The only thing that could hold Iraq together was brutal dictatorship. Which we toppled.

Anyway, again the fact that some people are PNAC idiots does not make everyone a PNAC idiot. We can either walk away and let brutality and death smother Iraq, or we can try to steer them towards a less violent breakup. Note that the latter does not involve any troops. And may not be successful.

Also, Syria was destroyed by drought. The conflict there was kept at a simmer until the drought made life bad enough for large scale rebellion. Yay climate change!

As for Lybia, our involvement was to prevent Qaddafi from using his tanks to slaughter the rebels. Would you have preferred that outcome?

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
5. No, it is Iraq's issue and the Iraqii people. Not Cheney's oil company, or the using invading a
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:07 PM
Jun 2014

Country based on a lie, that had the arrogance to believe they have the right to the Iraq oil, and who should rule it

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
7. He had the right idea, though I didn't think it was right for the US to do it.
Sun Jun 15, 2014, 11:08 PM
Jun 2014

They need to come up with that on their own and work it out.

delrem

(9,688 posts)
10. That is condescending crap.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 01:43 AM
Jun 2014

The USA DESTROYED IRAQ!
Don't you understand that? Do you even think about that?

TexasProgresive

(12,148 posts)
18. Sure he was right
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 06:34 AM
Jun 2014

Anyone who looked at the Iraq situation with intelligence would know that only a strong dictator could hold an artificial construct like Iraq together. With 3 groups that have little love for each other and a lot of hate it is only a matter of time before Iraq explodes into a horrid blood bath. This is especially true since all 3 have external allies to give them support.

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