Why should those be taken off the table?

Bryant

and admits that her life is guided by said monster, yep, I think we all have that right to question her run for Pres.

if she is capable of doing her job as a professional, which she has proven, then no I don't see how it is an issue.

I think she is not an honest person, and a very self centred one - therefore all professionalism goes out the window.

and felt she was professional enough to be Secretary of State. Yes we will have to agree to disagree then.

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama did reach out to smooth the troubled PUMA pisswaters but I also wouldn't be surprised if the Clinton's some how weasled her into the SoS spot.

How she conducted herself in the Honduras Coup -- she supported and possibly instigated it with Lanny Davis for $$$ reasons, surprise!!!, Obama did not.

I think Obama may not have as high a regard for her as some assume but being the kind of guy he is, he is not going to make trouble for the party.

Have they seen the absolute bat shit craziness that is today's republican party? Besides, she hasn't even said she's running.

The focus being on a Warren/Sanders lineup.

1. Warren will not run if Hillary runs.
2. Sanders is not a Democrat.

So blood must be drawn.

Their fantasy ticket couldn't get elected in this country, so blame Hillary.

...straight-up ratfucking, and even after all that DU has been through it's pretty incredible.

and some of us strongly oppose the DLC wing of the party.

Hillary is a fine moderate Republican, but some would rather have the Democratic candidate be an actual Democrat. An old school one.

And she's not even currently in politics. It's like making thread after thread attacking Bart Stupak. It's only 2014, if this is how DU is going to be for 2 more years that's pretty pathetic.

Unless somebody makes a strong showing now, the time between when she announces and when she is declared the winner of the primary will be about two hours.

There's only one way to take care of it. As this guy explains

A Republican easily waltzes into the white house. Mission accomplished, I guess.

I've been reading her book. I find it interesting. I have had a hard time putting it down!

The suggestion that we she wouldn't worry about her beliefs or opinions until they become decisions is laughable.

Bad policy is the reason this nation is in the mess it is in.

If Hillary believes Third Way is the best guide for future policy I will fight my damnedest to keep her from winning the Democratic presidential nomination.

She might be entitled to have her own thoughts and choices. But she isn't entitled to our support if those thoughts and choices are wrong for the party and the nation.

he would have not appointed her as Secretary of State.

If President Obama didn't have an issue with her beliefs, why do some on DU?

President Obama appointed Geither, Summers and Emanuel, among others.

Through his appointments President Obama has perfectly illustrated that he is a poor judge of character.

Hillary doesn't believe

we have differences and we don't agree 100%. But to attack someone based on their beliefs exposes someone's true nature and it is ugly.

I respectfully disagree.

I do not recall Hillary Clinton being so explicit with her beliefs when she was in the running for the nomination of the party in the past.

How is that pandering?

We get it, you support her.

Other people don't. Deal with it.

...but I am sure that professing belief is still politically expedient.

I won't attack her for it, because who really knows, and why should belief be relevant?

She's not an automaton? Well, some people will dispute that.

Ahhhh, let them. They wouldn't vote for her anyway, so who really cares what they think?

Let the purists vote for Nader or any other third party candidate. I will not beg for their votes.

people feel the need to be so critical of her when she isn't in any political office currently.

They fear that if she runs, this time she wins. Since they can't stand her, they bash her 24/7.

I'm done with them. This has stopped being a place for political discourse and it has become a site where our most viable potential candidate gets verbally lynched every single day. Considering that this is supposed to be a Democratic site, it makes me sick.

To Hell with them, one and all!!!

and you construct a straw man. who has attacked her beliefs? point it out. who has attacked "her life"?- whatever that means. And it's perfectly fair to criticize her for whom she associates with- such as big banksters and far right religious nutwads. as for the bland, plaintive "she's human", so what? everyone is human. She certainly is allowed her own thoughts and choices. THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE HAVE TO AGREE WITH THEM.

sheesh. critical thinking is in short supply.

I was shocked.

Susan Baker, wife of James Baker
Joanne Kemp, wife of Jack Kemp
Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke (see article excerpt below)
Grace Nelson, wife of Sen. Bill Nelson, she is the leader of the group

Hillary isn't just attending a once-a-year event, the prayer group shows that she is plugged in to this organization on an ongoing, small group, personal basis.

I didn't know this about her before today, but it sure clears up a lot for me.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics?page=2

...

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family&quot , a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

...

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

...

Unlikely partnerships have become a Clinton trademark. Some are symbolic, such as her support for a ban on flag burning with Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) and funding for research on the dangers of video games with Brownback and Santorum. But Clinton has also joined the gop on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms. With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.

Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right.

...

But the senator's project isn't the conversion of her adversaries; it's tempering their opposition so she can court a new generation of Clinton Republicans, values voters who have grown estranged from the Christian right. And while such crossover conservatives may never agree with her on the old litmus-test issues, there is an important, and broader, common ground—the kind of faith-based politics that, under the right circumstances, will permit majority morality to trump individual rights.
...

personal life private from the public.

And there is no evidence that it has caused any problems with her performance in the political sphere as a professional.

Is that what you're looking for? Short of that (which is not the purview of a message board), the excerpt provided enough examples of her beliefs influencing her politics. And reading the entire article would show more.

But then maybe that doesn't bother you, it does me.

So, yes strong evidence a.k.a "courtroom evidence" is integral before passing any judgement IMVHO.

In my book, it would take a hell of a lot more than they have got, that's for sure.

Let me know what the complete list is and we'll talk some more.

She's done as far as I'm concerned, unless I hear a denial from her that I can believe -- which isn't likely.

Any possible Dems that might be there would be of the same mindset, so how would that help anything out?

You seem as if you do not know too much about religious right prayer groups. If you did, you'd know what this info is telling you.

Those of us who know the religious right, get all we need to know from this, and it is way more than enough.

I know quite a bit, actually. Researching Rushdoony et al. was like staring into The Abyss. So don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs, as the ancient saying goes.

Hillary Clinton's record of work for women, children, and the disadvantaged in general has been out there for all to see for her entire adult life. It has been consistent with the kind of social justice mandate fairly common among a certain type of Methodist exposed to some of the preachers of the 1960s.

The questions I would ask today, 22 years later, are these: Has Hillary seen Rachel Maddow's interview with Jeff Sharlett or read his book? Has she done any independent investigation to determine to her own satisfaction if Sharlett's research is true? (I'm sure it is true, but I'd like to know about HRC.) Has she maintained a relationship with Coe or any significant member of his group since then? If she no longer has a relationship, when did she cease, and why? Is she prepared to oppose the machinations of this group when it appears to be machinating?

My ballot for 2016 is not filled in -- I'm not coming at this from the standpoint of "Hillary's the One and Only." But I do see her as a woman who has spent her lifetime in genuine public service, bent on social justice. I need a lot more evidence than the slurs currently being thrown about here on DU before I change my mind about her character.

Those are relevant questions today. 22 years ago, what could any of us have known about what The Family was up to?

but that won't stop the haters.

Sid

thoughts and choices. And the rest of us are allowed to have our own thoughts and make our own choices in re making her leader of the country based upon her thoughts and choices.

Hillary for each and every thing they can imagine. Then they try to promote Warren/Sanders. In their zeal to get people on the side of Warren it is having the opposite outcome for me. I am beginning to nit like Warren, not because of Warren but her backers is driving people away. Both Hillary and Warren are Methodist, get over it and stop the bashing. You want to speak badly of someone's faith know on this one it is a double edged sword, you are cutting both women.

If religion is bad for you then this is your decision, if you don't want to be bashed for non religion then don't bash either way.

Sanders is 6 years older than Hillary. I adore Sanders but I think at some point there is a cut-off for age. And yes that means I'm pretty much not supporting Joe Biden either (who is a year younger than Sanders).

Anyone that want's to be President is fair game. I know you believe blind faith and trust, but other's do not. It is exactly the time to question everything she stands for because if she becomes president, those "belief's" will come into play and will effect everyone in this nation! OMG

Someone needs a shot of critical thinking.

Perhaps you not been following candidate very long, certain one I have. I look for a candidate who has values and has taken stands on issues I agree with. I don't do the penny Annie grocery story rag magazine for my information.

Pot meet kettle.

I haven't decided on who to support during the primaries because I have not seen who the candidates are yet.

Some of the more recent ones clearly do show how unhinged some people are with their CDS. Rush wouldn't be able to compete with some of the CDS that can be found here.

I would unrec this if I could.

but they will get taken apart and to the cleaners regularly, and somebody who agrees with The Family will run the country accordingly.

And by the way, this has zero to do with HRC the person, and all to do with the politician.

Actually, they don't want to hear you because it looks to me like some have been tasked with somehow ginning up enthusiasm for Hillary with all of DU, or something like that. Maybe the DBC does not want a primary, so any mention of anyone else is being squelched. Dunno. But not working, for sure.

so the alerts will come



Go ahead, call me a cynic. I fully admit to being one