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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhite supremacy meets “black boy rage”: Why Tupac’s needed more today than ever
Tupac would have turned 43 today. In age of Trayvon and Jordan Davis, here's why we have a hard time letting him go
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH
Tupac Shakur lived for twenty-five years. I was nine years-old when he died and twenty-five seemed so grown to me. Twenty-five sounded like you had lived. It wasnt until I started approaching twenty-five myself that I realized how close to black boyhood Tupac, born forty-three years ago to the day, was when he died.
I think thats part of the reason we have a hard time letting him go. For all of his faults (and there were many), he continues to show up in our conspiracy theories and urban legends, as a hologram at Coachella and an inspiration on Broadway, in our art, our style, our memorials, our fantasies, and our histories because of what he represented. Tupac wasnt the most impressive rapper. Only a diehard mourns the loss of his actual rhyme skills. But more than any other figure of that time, and probably since, Tupac articulated black boy rage in a way that was authentic, relatable, and easily translated to a nation determined to kill us. When he rapped, his vocal strain came directly from the gut, where he held his pain. He spoke with his entire body and you could damn near see the fury and anger pulsating just underneath his skin. Tupac screamed in Americas face on behalf of black boys in Brooklyn, Compton, Atlanta, Houston, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami, and all over who had been terrorized by white supremacy.
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/16/white_supremacy_meets_black_boy_rage_why_tupacs_needed_more_today_than_ever/
rocktivity
(44,555 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 6, 2022, 01:46 AM - Edit history (4)
not white supremacy...
rocktivity
ON EDIT: Here's where you can meet some actual heroes in the war on white supremacy:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829910
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)It is about his voice and message in regard to white supremacy and racism. It's not trying to imply that he was killed by white supremacists or something
Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #2)
Post removed
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)alp227
(31,962 posts)I wish the essay had given equal time
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5108291
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
"the problem of hiphoppers killing each other just as surely as white supremacists are. " Wow can you get any more bigoted than this? Actually, to be fair, "hiphoppers killing each other" is dog-whistle speak for "black on black crime". Just like "states' rights" was the more polite version of segregation nostalgia when Reagan spoke in Philadelphia, MS in 1980.
Seriously. If you're gonna distract a discussion about racism against African-Americans by bringing up "well what about all the crap in black culture isn't that to blame?" sorry there's no reasoning whatsoever with you. This is not a "mere opinion" as jurors have said before. Nor "discuss, don't hide". This is naked bigotry. Don't try to say that and say "It doesn't matter to me what color a trigger finger is." This is some "I'm not prejudiced, but..." crap. Yuck!
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:04 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I think Rocktivity is posting a caricature of black people. That black people have to talk about more than racism but also about black on black crime. Really? You actually suggest that this is not talked about in the black community?
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm sorry alerter. I'm on your side but this post does not violate the TOS or CS of this site.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: First, they are not killing each other. Second, that's an insensitive and ignorant comment. Hiphop is a genre of music just like any other. Leave the corporate media stereotypes at the door before posting about a serious topic that requires some thought and listening.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: At the risk of sounding like a complete dope, I think alerter is reading wa-a-a-ay too much into rocktivity's post.
Thank you.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)DU is better off without that sort of post.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)This is not about that. It is about the contemporary reality of systemic racism and white supremacy, it's about Trayvon Martin, and stop and frisk and Oscar Grant. It is about Tupac's body of work and its messages, not the direct cause of his death.
I'm convinced that you haven't read the link, because turning something like this into a discussion about violence among black men is what rightwingers do, and I'm sure as shit that's not what you are trying to do.
I'm not saying that an examination of hiphoppers killing each other isn't a worthwhile conversation, but again, that's not what this essay is about.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)cause more rage than Jalisa Reed and Ranisha Jones?
Okay, I guess I will read the link, because I have no idea what Tupac's message is/was.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Do you have any understanding of his music & where he was coming from? Yes, there is a problem with black on black crime but there is a greater problem with systematic racism in this country & Tupac always rapped about it. Many of his songs are about the fucked up way minorities are treated in this country & why it causes so much anger & frustration especially to young black males. It's very real shit for many of us & you should try to open your mind to it instead of just trashing the article.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Also, "hiphoppers"? I think you're a couple decades out of date there.
Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #24)
Post removed
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)with the latter is unavoidable of course) - focusing on the unknown assailants who killed him kind of misses the point.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Startling, I know, not being consulted for your opinion before someone wrote an article about Tupac Shakur's death, a subject in which you are no doubt very learned and deeply invested in.
I guess you'll just have to deal with it.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But I think it was the "money launderers with beat boxes" that did it.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Weird. I wonder if juror #3 misclicked or something.
Twice, apparently.
It's backwards day on DU!
JI7
(89,182 posts)was another account set up by this person. i just noticed they both blame hip hop. when i alerted the one at the botton it failed and stayed up for a while.
but they finally banned them after a few other posts including one in which he said black kids were killing each other over chicken.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)You didn't read it yet.
rocktivity
(44,555 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 6, 2022, 01:45 AM - Edit history (8)
on his way out -- which was "needed" because:
...there are more (than) around 840,000 black men in prison, 300,000 more than in 1995 (when Tupac was counted among that number)...
Wisconsin locks up a larger percentage of black men than any other state, with almost 13 percent of its black male population locked by behind bars, nearly double the national rate of 6.7 percent...
Black boys make up 20 percent of out-of-school suspensions...
A police officer in Miami Gardens, Florida says he was told to stop every black male between 15 and 30 years old. We needed this now because that same police department has arrested Earl Sampson 111 times...
Now because in Miami-Dade, Tremaine McMillian was choked by police until he peed on himself because of a dehumanizing stare...
A police officer in Philadelphia told a young black man he stopped We dont want you here, anyway. All you do is weaken the fucking country...
Were still mourning the loss of Oscar Grant, Trayvon Martin, Jonathan Ferrell, Ramarley Graham, Jordan Davis, and so many more taken by police or otherwise denied justice...
I just think that mentioning that Tupac's murderers are still at large (which, ironically, is most likely because real outraged black boys don't snitch to the white supremacist police) would have given the article a more legtimate context. But then again, it isn't as though Salon isn't a stranger to sketchy premises and slipshod editorial standards.
rocktivity
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was about his message.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)of much of his work, and the importance of his sociopolitical commentary (especially early on, like '2Pacalypse Now' era).
bravenak
(34,648 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Indeed, I can't help but wonder if there mighta been more to his death than what we've been lead to believe.....and I'll just leave it at that.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)he spoke what we thought. this is one of my favorites
mstinamotorcity2
(1,451 posts)why street entrepreneurs exist. Then that song puts it home. The Truth about life in places some people are afraid of, and for others a way of life.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They avoid parts of town that contains black youth, stay in their ticky tacky little suburb boxes and think they are above it all. The reality is that we see more and more young people drifting in this direction because of the lack of opportunity and the negative attention they get outside of the community. They are safer in the ghetto than they are outside of it.
Response to bravenak (Reply #18)
Post removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)alp227
(31,962 posts)Xemasab's message was hidden in a 4-3 decision. That's the what, third hide in this thread?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If this were a test to see if people could handle other points of view without hysteria, we would fail.
I am shocked and saddened by the racist comments i have received this thread. I was that once i start speaking up about issues involving the black community i would get treated like trash. By democrats. It is true.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)My son went to the burbs for the first time. Police picked him up 6 times in 90 minutes.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)His range was ridiculous. He covered every emotion over his short career. Part due to the fact that he was shot and got paranoid toward the end. But that rage produced amazing music.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I rate Biggie Smalls a bit under him in the talent area, but Tupac had something extra special.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Tupac threw his soul into what he was doing. Even his trite stuff carried that note with it. Among modern American rap, I think only Jasiri X even approaches the man. Admittedly I haven't been keeping up with the genre the last few years...
alp227
(31,962 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)The range and extent of his catalog may not be comparable to Pac's, but his sheer skills as a lyricist blow away about 98% of the guys who've ever had a rap career.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I like the Ten Crack Commandments too, just because it make me laugh at how the shit stays the same no matter what.
I love Biggie but i am west coast so i gotta go Pac no matter what. But NAS is my one true love. Ever since If i ruled the world, i have loved chipped teeth. I think i might be one if the only people to prefer Stillmatic over Illmatic. I just really loved Ether.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Early to mid-90's hip-hop was studded with gems, some better known than others.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I loved it, the 90's was all about self discovery. Ready to die. One of my favorites, you make me want to go watch music videos.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)and basically grew up on, first grunge, then mainstream rap, then heavy/thrash metal. My tastes have only grown more eclectic since then.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My tastes have changed a bit but not too much. I still know every song coming on the radio and i love hip hop, but lately i realized i like classical. Weird.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)It was an art form in the 1980s, and I still listen to music from that era (PE, NWA, Eric B & Rakim, De La and Tribe, etc.), but the development of hip hop into the 90s was just an incredible journey into newer and seemingly always bigger and better things. More sounds, more expression, less barriers.
I remember the first time I heard The Chronic. Yes, the "g funk" sound got played out quickly, but when it was new, I found it mind boggling. Not just the sound, either. I can't tell you how many times I sat down with different people--grunger whiteboys, preppy blacks, hippy latinos, asians with "naturals", and any imagineable combination of those adjectives/nouns--and "threw down" to that record! It was our Woodstock!
I know it's corny, but it does feel like Biggie and Tupac's death brought everything to a screeching halt. It's never felt the same for me since, really, but a big part of that is getting older I suspect.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And knew both Tupac and Biggie. His opinion is Tupac spoke a deeper message; but Biggie was more talented. He told me of a session he attended where Biggie came in to the studio, listened to the beat and hook 1 time, lit up a blunt, and spit some press worthy crazy stuff all in one take.
No loved Tupac; but said he doubte Tupac could match that flow.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)for the most part, but it doesn't really follow through on the promise of his earlier stuff. He was always one of the better lyricists out there, though.
sheshe2
(83,355 posts)http://www.salon.com/2014/06/16/white_supremacy_meets_black_boy_rage_why_tupacs_needed_more_today_than_ever/
MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH from salon did a great job on this piece.
Thanks bravenak.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We could all learn a bit from this music.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I am of a prior generation but when I listen to Tupac it reminds me of the voices of my generation,who came before Tupac and used a different medium but the message is more chapters of the book. I am posting the text of the speech of my generation, I believe Tupac was one of the voices of his generation, I am listening for the voices of this generation.
Brave, I did not comment on your other thread but I believe that what Stokely talks about in his speech ties into what you were saying about one black man making it does not mean white supremacy no longer effects the life of black folks in this country, a black man making it against the backdrop of white male rule in this country is to make white folks feel better. Stokely says this better and I believe very little has changed, Tupac is another voice in the same struggle.
This is a long speech but so relevant, so relevant. It is tied together, at least I think so.
http://voicesofdemocracy.umd.edu/carmichael-black-power-speech-text/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I'm going to follow that page, i only read half of it so far, but it does give voice to my frustrations.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)Whatever else Tupac might have been, he was one talented dude. He's one of the very few artists I've ever seen that I think could've made a name for himself in just about any musical genre he'd chosen.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)He was a trained actor, took ballet, was an excellent guitarist and pianist, sang, and read books like a librarian on speed. No doubt in my mind that Tupac was a certifiable genius who could have excelled anywhere.
JI7
(89,182 posts)towards the end where he talks about what Tupac's music . just listening to that and not knowing anything about Rubio it's like he could maybe understand what the article is saying .
Rubio was born the same time as Tupac and there may be some experiences where as a latino male he could understand .
but then you wonder how he could be what he is now with the republican party and kissing teabagger ass.
edgineered
(2,101 posts)there must be voices in my head tonight because Rubio and truth are two words that don't work in one sentence.
...here it is ... eight pills every two hours . . . great to have a dyslexic pharmacist
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Rubio knows perfectly well he's pandering to a lost cause.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Heidi
(58,237 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I've had a couple of exchanges with a self-proclaimed "racial separatist" - some balls, huh? - by the unintentionally(?) ironic Internet handle of "Drake." He calmly goes about his merry way while proclaiming things like "White men built every invention of the modern world!"
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My favorite. Always makes my brain hurt trying to understand how they get there and say it with such conviction.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)The ones who fear losing what power they still hold are really grasping at straws.
Response to bravenak (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)54. Tupac was, and still is, part of the problem
If the black community is ever to progress, the hip hop culture needs to die. Its attitude towards women and homosexuals, along with the victim mentality, is what's keeping many blacks in a mental prison. It holds everyone back and drags them down.
If the black community is to progress it will be in spite of the barriers put in place by the system that targets young men of color and criminalizes them for the color of his skin. Maybe it's not hip hop that's the problem but racism against black men. Nice first post. Your post is what wrong with this nation, broad brushing of young african american males and telling them it is them who is the problem, not this system dedicated to their oppression.
Response to bravenak (Reply #55)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Racism is not a problem in this country founded on the destruction of the Native race and the subjugation of the black race? That is one racist statement.
Response to bravenak (Reply #57)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And you are trying to say that the europeans basically did the natives a favor by killing them and giving them reservations? On their own land? And since their population has somewhat recovered it's all good?
And you think that young black men are running around shooting each other over a chicken wing? You may as well have said watermelon. These are some of the worst comments i have seen on DU.
Response to bravenak (Reply #61)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)I enjoy listening to because it's so progressive. Hip Hop has been discussed often on it as a major problem.
Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #58)
Name removed Message auto-removed
JI7
(89,182 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
i think this is a troll. even if someone had a problem with hip hop , to say that is the problem in the black community and what is keeping them down ? this sounds like what comes from racists .
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:31 PM, and voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Looks like a disruptor to me
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing in the post that is offensive but assuming that someone's first post marks them as "a troll" is pretty paranoid. Leave.
Thank you.
On Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:34 AM you sent an alert on the following post:
"Targets young men of color and criminalizes them for the color of his skin"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5110283
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
YOUR COMMENTS
Second racist post from the same poster. Second post ever, second racist post. Is this the DU standard? This dude is a rightwing troll.
JURY RESULTS
A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:48 AM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Wtf alert is this??? Grrr!
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Racist troll.. I agree with the alerter.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: racist rant: hide it.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you.
Number 4....... WTF?
JI7
(89,182 posts)just shows that some don't think it's bigoted unless it's something like saying the N word .
his first post sounded like something from o'reilly.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The love me for some reason. Just cute i guess.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)"Regardless of a single person's effort to help him while he was dying, this person represented (was a symbol if you will...) of a group of people that put him in a position where rapping was just about the only way he could have the level of success he achieved."
I could spend half the morning unpacking this.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He studied various art forms including, acting, dance and poetry. He also was highly intelligent and could have succeeded at anything.
That's how America see's young talented black men. Objects of derision and ridicule.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)accused the author of the piece as having an essentialist sense of where Tupac's art came from.
There was a lot of hard work behind it. You don't get out of the 'hood without working hard at something.
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Thank you, i never knew that.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)How many unprovoked violent assaults on Black men and participation in the brutal gang rape of Black women do you get to commit before you lose the status of a civil rights icon? Tupac was a mediocre rapper at best. His railing against racism and White supremacy is further erodes any artistic merit his songs may have had if one spends their free time violently assaulting Black people over colors of cloth or which coast you were raised.
No, the world does need more Tupacs. We need more Van Jones, Susan Rice, and Niel DeGrasse Tysons and the countless unsung heros like devoted parents and teachers who do the hard work of improving their communities day in and day out. The kind of people who don't pay lip service to racism and White Supremacy but who actually do the work to fight it. Shooting up your community over petty disputes of disrespect is not being warrior against racism. That's being a thug.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Gang rapes? Unprovoked violent assaults on young black males? Thanks for sounding like Mel Gibson.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)In early 1994, he was found guilty of assault on Menace II Society co-director Allen Hughes and served 15 days in jail.
<snip>
The complainant claimed sexual assault after her second visit to Shakur's hotel room; she alleged that Shakur and his entourage raped her.
<snip>
The judge described the crimes during the sentencing of Shakur to 1½4½ years in prison, as "an act of brutal violence against a helpless woman."
<snip>
Shakur's entourage, as well as Knight and his followers, assisted in assaulting Anderson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur
I'm not a fan boy of Tupac. I have a moral conscious and can read.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The founding fathers raped slaves and i don't see you hating on them at all.
ZX86
(1,428 posts)You are way off base trying to insinuate I approve of rape.
alp227
(31,962 posts)but Tupac had a criminal record and spent a year or two in prison for rape. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur#Legal_issues
As much as I like his music, it's impossible to ignore Tupac's criminal record. At least Tupac had talent, unlike R. Kelly or Jimmy Savile.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)"Shakur and his entourage raped her."
alp227
(31,962 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)Shakur was later a convicted sex offender, guilty of sexual abuse.
http://rap.wikia.com/wiki/Tupac_Shakur
alp227
(31,962 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)You highlighted in bold "alleged". He participated in the gang rape of a Black woman, was convicted and imprisoned. I don't believe in soft peddling sexual assault.
1000words
(7,051 posts)Epic fail. Enjoy the time out, alerter.
==============================
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Tupac was not a gang member, and did not spend his free time assaulting black people unprovoked. This is an example of stereotyping young black males as thugs and criminals. This racism and stereotyping of young black males is getting worse an worse on DU.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:27 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In this same post you alerted on, this poster pointed out other POC that they respect and wish there were more of. Just because he has an opinion on Tupac, does not make him/her a racist. This post is not against CS or the SOP. However, with the sensitive nature of things on this board, at this time, I'm sure you guilted at least four to vote hide. Congratulations.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster never says Tupac was a gang member or thug. The poster says we DO need more Tupacs and ...
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Someone needs to learn more about Tupac: The company he kept were predominately gang-bangers, he was convicted for sexual assault and was only let out when Snoop's record label sprung him. Leave it alone. Tupac was a very flawed individual.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
ZX86
(1,428 posts)Since when is it acceptable to refer to a Black man or anything he engages in as "boy"? I've never heard that term before. I don't care for Tupac but he was a grown man. He made adult decisions and paid the adult price.