Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 06:41 PM Jun 2014

White supremacy meets “black boy rage”: Why Tupac’s needed more today than ever

Tupac would have turned 43 today. In age of Trayvon and Jordan Davis, here's why we have a hard time letting him go

MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH

Tupac Shakur lived for twenty-five years. I was nine years-old when he died and twenty-five seemed so grown to me. Twenty-five sounded like you had lived. It wasn’t until I started approaching twenty-five myself that I realized how close to black boyhood Tupac, born forty-three years ago to the day, was when he died.

I think that’s part of the reason we have a hard time letting him go. For all of his faults (and there were many), he continues to show up in our conspiracy theories and urban legends, as a hologram at Coachella and an inspiration on Broadway, in our art, our style, our memorials, our fantasies, and our histories because of what he represented. Tupac wasn’t the most impressive rapper. Only a diehard mourns the loss of his actual rhyme skills. But more than any other figure of that time, and probably since, Tupac articulated black boy rage in a way that was authentic, relatable, and easily translated to a nation determined to kill us. When he rapped, his vocal strain came directly from the gut, where he held his pain. He spoke with his entire body and you could damn near see the fury and anger pulsating just underneath his skin. Tupac screamed in America’s face on behalf of black boys in Brooklyn, Compton, Atlanta, Houston, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami, and all over who had been terrorized by white supremacy.



http://www.salon.com/2014/06/16/white_supremacy_meets_black_boy_rage_why_tupacs_needed_more_today_than_ever/

96 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
White supremacy meets “black boy rage”: Why Tupac’s needed more today than ever (Original Post) bravenak Jun 2014 OP
But Tupac's cause of death WAS black boy rage rocktivity Jun 2014 #1
That's not the point the essay is trying to make though Cal Carpenter Jun 2014 #2
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #4
wow. Sheldon Cooper Jun 2014 #5
...and it's gone. alp227 Jun 2014 #34
Exactly. It's an offensive caricature of a music genre *and* a race. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #52
That's a whole different article Cal Carpenter Jun 2014 #6
by why should Trayvon and Grant hfojvt Jun 2014 #53
Have you ever listened to Tupac? giftedgirl77 Jun 2014 #9
As in many societies, extreme inequality and epidemic violence are inseparable from each other. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #24
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #28
The article is much more about his lyrical themes and image than about his death (though dealing nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #35
Well, nobody asked you Scootaloo Jun 2014 #29
I'm a little surprised he got a hidden post, considering a lot of the stuff that flies around here. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #36
That IS kind of surprising. Scootaloo Jun 2014 #37
i'm wondering if the named removed towards the botton of the thread JI7 Jun 2014 #88
Really? Chicken? Really? Scootaloo Jun 2014 #94
Rocktivity..... bravenak Jun 2014 #3
Apparently I'm supposed admire Tupac for spitting in the eye of white supremacy rocktivity Jun 2014 #11
Well, the article just wasn't about his murder. bravenak Jun 2014 #19
Some people can only seem to focus on the guy's death. Which is a shame considering both the quality nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #25
It is a shame.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #32
Tupac truly was, and is, a global icon. AverageJoe90 Jun 2014 #7
I agree.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #8
Tupac was ahead of his time lyrically. mstinamotorcity2 Jun 2014 #10
I love that one. bravenak Jun 2014 #13
If they ever wondered mstinamotorcity2 Jun 2014 #16
It's hard for folks who never lived the life to understand. bravenak Jun 2014 #18
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #67
I am also safer at home.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #69
Geez. Do you have an idea about the average # of hides in your threads? alp227 Jun 2014 #80
I also blame me for posting awesome stuff. bravenak Jun 2014 #83
I was attacked by a gang only once. It was an all white gang in the suburbs. ieoeja Jun 2014 #74
My favorite rapper LittleBlue Jun 2014 #12
He was the most talented rapper ever. bravenak Jun 2014 #15
While I find it difficult to rate musicians like that, I can't disagree Scootaloo Jun 2014 #38
I try to keep up since my husband blasts the stuff so loud in the car. bravenak Jun 2014 #45
Seriously? 2 Chainz, that misogynistic, talentless sleazebag formerly known as "Tity Boi"? nt alp227 Jun 2014 #90
I have to admit I'd go the other way, seeing as Biggie is my favorite rapper of all time. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #41
Juicy was my favorite to dance off when i was working. bravenak Jun 2014 #43
'Illmatic' and 'Ready to Die' are two of the all-time greats of the genre for sure. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #46
Best time to be a teenager! bravenak Jun 2014 #48
I was in Catholic elementary school for all of the 90's (graduated 8th grade in '99) nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #50
I was class of 99 too, but high school. bravenak Jun 2014 #51
Watching hip hop develop from the 80s into the 90s was incredible. Romulox Jun 2014 #73
My Brother-in-law is in the Hip hop scene ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2014 #76
I agree with you that lyrically Biggie had it all. bravenak Jun 2014 #79
Admittedly, much of his later material was shallow and crassly commercial - I still enjoy that stuff nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #27
"Reclaiming some of the humanity" from an unjust world. sheshe2 Jun 2014 #14
He's been writing some good stuff lately. bravenak Jun 2014 #17
Tupac gwheezie Jun 2014 #20
Thank you for that. bravenak Jun 2014 #21
I'm going to have to disagree with mourning the loss of his skills. JoeyT Jun 2014 #22
He was an artist overall Scootaloo Jun 2014 #42
did you see this from Marco Rubio ? JI7 Jun 2014 #23
Checking my meds - edgineered Jun 2014 #30
Poor Rubio is the exact type of sell out that Tupac was not. bravenak Jun 2014 #31
Indeed. Which makes his obvious reach for "street cred" all the more pathetic. n/t nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #39
Kick!!! Heidi Jun 2014 #26
Rest in peace Tupac lovemydog Jun 2014 #33
+1 nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #40
Dear God some of the comments are depressing... nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #44
What about the ones who say the were here before the Native Americans and died out. bravenak Jun 2014 #47
Yeah, as if a few Viking ships blown off course consitute the "founding" of anything. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #49
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #54
Craziness. You signed up just to say that? bravenak Jun 2014 #55
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #56
So, let me get this straight.... bravenak Jun 2014 #57
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #59
This is how you see the black community? bravenak Jun 2014 #61
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #62
I live in New Orleans and on the Black Radio station Katashi_itto Jun 2014 #58
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #60
my alert on that first post of his failed JI7 Jun 2014 #63
I got him. bravenak Jun 2014 #64
just like the # 7 from my alert JI7 Jun 2014 #65
Prolly the same type of person who says things like this. bravenak Jun 2014 #66
From the comments: XemaSab Jun 2014 #68
Tupac was a gifted student and went to performing arts high schools. bravenak Jun 2014 #70
One of the other commenters XemaSab Jun 2014 #71
named for the Incan rebel leader, Tupac Amaru II BainsBane Jun 2014 #72
Really? bravenak Jun 2014 #75
Question ZX86 Jun 2014 #77
Do you even know what you are talking about? bravenak Jun 2014 #78
Tupac's criminal record is legend. ZX86 Jun 2014 #81
We still need Tupac. bravenak Jun 2014 #85
The topic is Tupac. Not Jefferson. ZX86 Jun 2014 #87
I hate to use the "truth as a defense" trope to defend vitriol, alp227 Jun 2014 #82
He said gang rape.nt bravenak Jun 2014 #84
He gang raped a Black woman. ZX86 Jun 2014 #86
Wikipedia: alp227 Jun 2014 #89
Convicted. He did it. Don't apoligize for the rape of a Black woman. ZX86 Jun 2014 #91
When did I apologize for rape? nt alp227 Jun 2014 #92
Tupac was convicted by a jury of his peers. ZX86 Jun 2014 #96
Jury results: 1000words Jun 2014 #93
Black "boy" rage? ZX86 Jun 2014 #95

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
1. But Tupac's cause of death WAS black boy rage
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 06:48 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Thu Oct 6, 2022, 01:46 AM - Edit history (4)

not white supremacy...


rocktivity

ON EDIT: Here's where you can meet some actual heroes in the war on white supremacy:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829910

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
2. That's not the point the essay is trying to make though
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 06:54 PM
Jun 2014

It is about his voice and message in regard to white supremacy and racism. It's not trying to imply that he was killed by white supremacists or something

Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #2)

alp227

(31,962 posts)
34. ...and it's gone.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:08 AM
Jun 2014
On Mon Jun 16, 2014, 10:50 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

I wish the essay had given equal time
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5108291

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

"the problem of hiphoppers killing each other just as surely as white supremacists are. " Wow can you get any more bigoted than this? Actually, to be fair, "hiphoppers killing each other" is dog-whistle speak for "black on black crime". Just like "states' rights" was the more polite version of segregation nostalgia when Reagan spoke in Philadelphia, MS in 1980.

Seriously. If you're gonna distract a discussion about racism against African-Americans by bringing up "well what about all the crap in black culture isn't that to blame?" sorry there's no reasoning whatsoever with you. This is not a "mere opinion" as jurors have said before. Nor "discuss, don't hide". This is naked bigotry. Don't try to say that and say "It doesn't matter to me what color a trigger finger is." This is some "I'm not prejudiced, but..." crap. Yuck!

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:04 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I think Rocktivity is posting a caricature of black people. That black people have to talk about more than racism but also about black on black crime. Really? You actually suggest that this is not talked about in the black community?

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm sorry alerter. I'm on your side but this post does not violate the TOS or CS of this site.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: First, they are not killing each other. Second, that's an insensitive and ignorant comment. Hiphop is a genre of music just like any other. Leave the corporate media stereotypes at the door before posting about a serious topic that requires some thought and listening.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: At the risk of sounding like a complete dope, I think alerter is reading wa-a-a-ay too much into rocktivity's post.

Thank you.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
52. Exactly. It's an offensive caricature of a music genre *and* a race.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:48 AM
Jun 2014

DU is better off without that sort of post.

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
6. That's a whole different article
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:10 PM
Jun 2014

This is not about that. It is about the contemporary reality of systemic racism and white supremacy, it's about Trayvon Martin, and stop and frisk and Oscar Grant. It is about Tupac's body of work and its messages, not the direct cause of his death.

I'm convinced that you haven't read the link, because turning something like this into a discussion about violence among black men is what rightwingers do, and I'm sure as shit that's not what you are trying to do.

I'm not saying that an examination of hiphoppers killing each other isn't a worthwhile conversation, but again, that's not what this essay is about.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
53. by why should Trayvon and Grant
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:50 AM
Jun 2014

cause more rage than Jalisa Reed and Ranisha Jones?

Okay, I guess I will read the link, because I have no idea what Tupac's message is/was.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
9. Have you ever listened to Tupac?
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:23 PM
Jun 2014

Do you have any understanding of his music & where he was coming from? Yes, there is a problem with black on black crime but there is a greater problem with systematic racism in this country & Tupac always rapped about it. Many of his songs are about the fucked up way minorities are treated in this country & why it causes so much anger & frustration especially to young black males. It's very real shit for many of us & you should try to open your mind to it instead of just trashing the article.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
24. As in many societies, extreme inequality and epidemic violence are inseparable from each other.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:27 AM
Jun 2014

Also, "hiphoppers"? I think you're a couple decades out of date there.

Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #24)

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
35. The article is much more about his lyrical themes and image than about his death (though dealing
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:35 AM
Jun 2014

with the latter is unavoidable of course) - focusing on the unknown assailants who killed him kind of misses the point.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
29. Well, nobody asked you
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:47 AM
Jun 2014

Startling, I know, not being consulted for your opinion before someone wrote an article about Tupac Shakur's death, a subject in which you are no doubt very learned and deeply invested in.

I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
36. I'm a little surprised he got a hidden post, considering a lot of the stuff that flies around here.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:36 AM
Jun 2014

But I think it was the "money launderers with beat boxes" that did it.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
37. That IS kind of surprising.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:41 AM
Jun 2014

Weird. I wonder if juror #3 misclicked or something.

Twice, apparently.

It's backwards day on DU!

JI7

(89,182 posts)
88. i'm wondering if the named removed towards the botton of the thread
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:37 PM
Jun 2014

was another account set up by this person. i just noticed they both blame hip hop. when i alerted the one at the botton it failed and stayed up for a while.

but they finally banned them after a few other posts including one in which he said black kids were killing each other over chicken.

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
11. Apparently I'm supposed admire Tupac for spitting in the eye of white supremacy
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:25 PM
Jun 2014

Last edited Thu Oct 6, 2022, 01:45 AM - Edit history (8)

on his way out -- which was "needed" because:

...there are more (than) around 840,000 black men in prison, 300,000 more than in 1995 (when Tupac was counted among that number)...

Wisconsin locks up a larger percentage of black men than any other state, with almost 13 percent of its black male population locked by behind bars, nearly double the national rate of 6.7 percent...

Black boys make up 20 percent of out-of-school suspensions...

A police officer in Miami Gardens, Florida says he was told to stop every black male between 15 and 30 years old. We needed this now because that same police department has arrested Earl Sampson 111 times...

Now because in Miami-Dade, Tremaine McMillian was choked by police until he peed on himself because of a “dehumanizing stare...”

A police officer in Philadelphia told a young black man he stopped “We don’t want you here, anyway. All you do is weaken the fucking country...”

We’re still mourning the loss of Oscar Grant, Trayvon Martin, Jonathan Ferrell, Ramarley Graham, Jordan Davis, and so many more taken by police or otherwise denied justice...

I just think that mentioning that Tupac's murderers are still at large (which, ironically, is most likely because real outraged black boys don't snitch to the white supremacist police) would have given the article a more legtimate context. But then again, it isn't as though Salon isn't a stranger to sketchy premises and slipshod editorial standards.


rocktivity

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
25. Some people can only seem to focus on the guy's death. Which is a shame considering both the quality
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:31 AM
Jun 2014

of much of his work, and the importance of his sociopolitical commentary (especially early on, like '2Pacalypse Now' era).

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
7. Tupac truly was, and is, a global icon.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:14 PM
Jun 2014

Indeed, I can't help but wonder if there mighta been more to his death than what we've been lead to believe.....and I'll just leave it at that.

mstinamotorcity2

(1,451 posts)
16. If they ever wondered
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:31 PM
Jun 2014

why street entrepreneurs exist. Then that song puts it home. The Truth about life in places some people are afraid of, and for others a way of life.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
18. It's hard for folks who never lived the life to understand.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:35 PM
Jun 2014

They avoid parts of town that contains black youth, stay in their ticky tacky little suburb boxes and think they are above it all. The reality is that we see more and more young people drifting in this direction because of the lack of opportunity and the negative attention they get outside of the community. They are safer in the ghetto than they are outside of it.

Response to bravenak (Reply #18)

alp227

(31,962 posts)
80. Geez. Do you have an idea about the average # of hides in your threads?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:24 PM
Jun 2014

Xemasab's message was hidden in a 4-3 decision. That's the what, third hide in this thread?

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
83. I also blame me for posting awesome stuff.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:28 PM
Jun 2014

If this were a test to see if people could handle other points of view without hysteria, we would fail.
I am shocked and saddened by the racist comments i have received this thread. I was that once i start speaking up about issues involving the black community i would get treated like trash. By democrats. It is true.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
74. I was attacked by a gang only once. It was an all white gang in the suburbs.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 12:01 PM
Jun 2014

My son went to the burbs for the first time. Police picked him up 6 times in 90 minutes.


 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
12. My favorite rapper
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:26 PM
Jun 2014

His range was ridiculous. He covered every emotion over his short career. Part due to the fact that he was shot and got paranoid toward the end. But that rage produced amazing music.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
15. He was the most talented rapper ever.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:30 PM
Jun 2014

I rate Biggie Smalls a bit under him in the talent area, but Tupac had something extra special.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
38. While I find it difficult to rate musicians like that, I can't disagree
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:46 AM
Jun 2014

Tupac threw his soul into what he was doing. Even his trite stuff carried that note with it. Among modern American rap, I think only Jasiri X even approaches the man. Admittedly I haven't been keeping up with the genre the last few years...

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
45. I try to keep up since my husband blasts the stuff so loud in the car.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:08 AM
Jun 2014

I'm loving 2chains right now, i have no idea why when he say's ' What up wrist!" I start cracking up.

http://m.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
41. I have to admit I'd go the other way, seeing as Biggie is my favorite rapper of all time.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:51 AM
Jun 2014

The range and extent of his catalog may not be comparable to Pac's, but his sheer skills as a lyricist blow away about 98% of the guys who've ever had a rap career.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
43. Juicy was my favorite to dance off when i was working.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:59 AM
Jun 2014

I like the Ten Crack Commandments too, just because it make me laugh at how the shit stays the same no matter what.
I love Biggie but i am west coast so i gotta go Pac no matter what. But NAS is my one true love. Ever since If i ruled the world, i have loved chipped teeth. I think i might be one if the only people to prefer Stillmatic over Illmatic. I just really loved Ether.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
46. 'Illmatic' and 'Ready to Die' are two of the all-time greats of the genre for sure.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:10 AM
Jun 2014

Early to mid-90's hip-hop was studded with gems, some better known than others.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
48. Best time to be a teenager!
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:12 AM
Jun 2014

I loved it, the 90's was all about self discovery. Ready to die. One of my favorites, you make me want to go watch music videos.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
50. I was in Catholic elementary school for all of the 90's (graduated 8th grade in '99)
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:21 AM
Jun 2014

and basically grew up on, first grunge, then mainstream rap, then heavy/thrash metal. My tastes have only grown more eclectic since then.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
51. I was class of 99 too, but high school.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:38 AM
Jun 2014

My tastes have changed a bit but not too much. I still know every song coming on the radio and i love hip hop, but lately i realized i like classical. Weird.

Romulox

(25,960 posts)
73. Watching hip hop develop from the 80s into the 90s was incredible.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 11:43 AM
Jun 2014

It was an art form in the 1980s, and I still listen to music from that era (PE, NWA, Eric B & Rakim, De La and Tribe, etc.), but the development of hip hop into the 90s was just an incredible journey into newer and seemingly always bigger and better things. More sounds, more expression, less barriers.

I remember the first time I heard The Chronic. Yes, the "g funk" sound got played out quickly, but when it was new, I found it mind boggling. Not just the sound, either. I can't tell you how many times I sat down with different people--grunger whiteboys, preppy blacks, hippy latinos, asians with "naturals", and any imagineable combination of those adjectives/nouns--and "threw down" to that record! It was our Woodstock!

I know it's corny, but it does feel like Biggie and Tupac's death brought everything to a screeching halt. It's never felt the same for me since, really, but a big part of that is getting older I suspect.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
76. My Brother-in-law is in the Hip hop scene ...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:50 PM
Jun 2014

And knew both Tupac and Biggie. His opinion is Tupac spoke a deeper message; but Biggie was more talented. He told me of a session he attended where Biggie came in to the studio, listened to the beat and hook 1 time, lit up a blunt, and spit some press worthy crazy stuff all in one take.

No loved Tupac; but said he doubte Tupac could match that flow.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
79. I agree with you that lyrically Biggie had it all.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:22 PM
Jun 2014

But Tupac spoke to the soul in a way Biggie didn't, i think it's was the style difference. And Nas is actually the best lyricist ever.
My favorite
http://m.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
27. Admittedly, much of his later material was shallow and crassly commercial - I still enjoy that stuff
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:38 AM
Jun 2014

for the most part, but it doesn't really follow through on the promise of his earlier stuff. He was always one of the better lyricists out there, though.

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
14. "Reclaiming some of the humanity" from an unjust world.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 07:28 PM
Jun 2014
It’s a ubiquitous phrase, “fuck you.” I hear it in some form probably every day. But coming out of the mouth of a black boy and being aimed at a representative of the racist state, it feels almost revolutionary. It’s a small way of reclaiming some of the humanity that white supremacy has stolen. It won’t save us. Black boy rage has its limitations, and too often makes targets out of those who struggle right alongside us (namely black girls/women). But I won’t turn away from a well-placed “fuck you” to the system. Tupac sure didn’t.

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/16/white_supremacy_meets_black_boy_rage_why_tupacs_needed_more_today_than_ever/


MYCHAL DENZEL SMITH from salon did a great job on this piece.

Thanks bravenak.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
20. Tupac
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 09:11 PM
Jun 2014

I am of a prior generation but when I listen to Tupac it reminds me of the voices of my generation,who came before Tupac and used a different medium but the message is more chapters of the book. I am posting the text of the speech of my generation, I believe Tupac was one of the voices of his generation, I am listening for the voices of this generation.
Brave, I did not comment on your other thread but I believe that what Stokely talks about in his speech ties into what you were saying about one black man making it does not mean white supremacy no longer effects the life of black folks in this country, a black man making it against the backdrop of white male rule in this country is to make white folks feel better. Stokely says this better and I believe very little has changed, Tupac is another voice in the same struggle.
This is a long speech but so relevant, so relevant. It is tied together, at least I think so.
http://voicesofdemocracy.umd.edu/carmichael-black-power-speech-text/

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
21. Thank you for that.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 09:21 PM
Jun 2014

I'm going to follow that page, i only read half of it so far, but it does give voice to my frustrations.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
22. I'm going to have to disagree with mourning the loss of his skills.
Mon Jun 16, 2014, 11:08 PM
Jun 2014

Whatever else Tupac might have been, he was one talented dude. He's one of the very few artists I've ever seen that I think could've made a name for himself in just about any musical genre he'd chosen.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
42. He was an artist overall
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 02:52 AM
Jun 2014

He was a trained actor, took ballet, was an excellent guitarist and pianist, sang, and read books like a librarian on speed. No doubt in my mind that Tupac was a certifiable genius who could have excelled anywhere.

JI7

(89,182 posts)
23. did you see this from Marco Rubio ?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:00 AM
Jun 2014

towards the end where he talks about what Tupac's music . just listening to that and not knowing anything about Rubio it's like he could maybe understand what the article is saying .

Rubio was born the same time as Tupac and there may be some experiences where as a latino male he could understand .

but then you wonder how he could be what he is now with the republican party and kissing teabagger ass.

edgineered

(2,101 posts)
30. Checking my meds -
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:50 AM
Jun 2014

there must be voices in my head tonight because Rubio and truth are two words that don't work in one sentence.

...here it is ... eight pills every two hours . . . great to have a dyslexic pharmacist

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
31. Poor Rubio is the exact type of sell out that Tupac was not.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 01:51 AM
Jun 2014

Rubio knows perfectly well he's pandering to a lost cause.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
44. Dear God some of the comments are depressing...
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:08 AM
Jun 2014

I've had a couple of exchanges with a self-proclaimed "racial separatist" - some balls, huh? - by the unintentionally(?) ironic Internet handle of "Drake." He calmly goes about his merry way while proclaiming things like "White men built every invention of the modern world!"

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
47. What about the ones who say the were here before the Native Americans and died out.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:11 AM
Jun 2014

My favorite. Always makes my brain hurt trying to understand how they get there and say it with such conviction.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
49. Yeah, as if a few Viking ships blown off course consitute the "founding" of anything.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 03:18 AM
Jun 2014

The ones who fear losing what power they still hold are really grasping at straws.

Response to bravenak (Original post)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
55. Craziness. You signed up just to say that?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:23 AM
Jun 2014
FedericoT (1 post)
54. Tupac was, and still is, part of the problem

If the black community is ever to progress, the hip hop culture needs to die. Its attitude towards women and homosexuals, along with the victim mentality, is what's keeping many blacks in a mental prison. It holds everyone back and drags them down.





If the black community is to progress it will be in spite of the barriers put in place by the system that targets young men of color and criminalizes them for the color of his skin. Maybe it's not hip hop that's the problem but racism against black men. Nice first post. Your post is what wrong with this nation, broad brushing of young african american males and telling them it is them who is the problem, not this system dedicated to their oppression.

Response to bravenak (Reply #55)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
57. So, let me get this straight....
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:33 AM
Jun 2014

Racism is not a problem in this country founded on the destruction of the Native race and the subjugation of the black race? That is one racist statement.

Response to bravenak (Reply #57)

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
61. This is how you see the black community?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:44 AM
Jun 2014

And you are trying to say that the europeans basically did the natives a favor by killing them and giving them reservations? On their own land? And since their population has somewhat recovered it's all good?
And you think that young black men are running around shooting each other over a chicken wing? You may as well have said watermelon. These are some of the worst comments i have seen on DU.

Response to bravenak (Reply #61)

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
58. I live in New Orleans and on the Black Radio station
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:34 AM
Jun 2014

I enjoy listening to because it's so progressive. Hip Hop has been discussed often on it as a major problem.

Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #58)

JI7

(89,182 posts)
63. my alert on that first post of his failed
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:51 AM
Jun 2014

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

i think this is a troll. even if someone had a problem with hip hop , to say that is the problem in the black community and what is keeping them down ? this sounds like what comes from racists .

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Jun 17, 2014, 07:31 PM, and voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Looks like a disruptor to me
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing in the post that is offensive but assuming that someone's first post marks them as "a troll" is pretty paranoid. Leave.


Thank you.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
64. I got him.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:54 AM
Jun 2014

On Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:34 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

"Targets young men of color and criminalizes them for the color of his skin"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5110283

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Second racist post from the same poster. Second post ever, second racist post. Is this the DU standard? This dude is a rightwing troll.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Jun 17, 2014, 04:48 AM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Wtf alert is this??? Grrr!
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Racist troll.. I agree with the alerter.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: racist rant: hide it.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.


Number 4....... WTF?

JI7

(89,182 posts)
65. just like the # 7 from my alert
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 05:57 AM
Jun 2014

just shows that some don't think it's bigoted unless it's something like saying the N word .

his first post sounded like something from o'reilly.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
66. Prolly the same type of person who says things like this.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 06:05 AM
Jun 2014

The love me for some reason. Just cute i guess.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
68. From the comments:
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:53 AM
Jun 2014

"Regardless of a single person's effort to help him while he was dying, this person represented (was a symbol if you will...) of a group of people that put him in a position where rapping was just about the only way he could have the level of success he achieved."

I could spend half the morning unpacking this.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
70. Tupac was a gifted student and went to performing arts high schools.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:11 AM
Jun 2014

He studied various art forms including, acting, dance and poetry. He also was highly intelligent and could have succeeded at anything.
That's how America see's young talented black men. Objects of derision and ridicule.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
71. One of the other commenters
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:48 AM
Jun 2014

accused the author of the piece as having an essentialist sense of where Tupac's art came from.

There was a lot of hard work behind it. You don't get out of the 'hood without working hard at something.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
77. Question
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:05 PM
Jun 2014

How many unprovoked violent assaults on Black men and participation in the brutal gang rape of Black women do you get to commit before you lose the status of a civil rights icon? Tupac was a mediocre rapper at best. His railing against racism and White supremacy is further erodes any artistic merit his songs may have had if one spends their free time violently assaulting Black people over colors of cloth or which coast you were raised.

No, the world does need more Tupacs. We need more Van Jones, Susan Rice, and Niel DeGrasse Tysons and the countless unsung heros like devoted parents and teachers who do the hard work of improving their communities day in and day out. The kind of people who don't pay lip service to racism and White Supremacy but who actually do the work to fight it. Shooting up your community over petty disputes of disrespect is not being warrior against racism. That's being a thug.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
78. Do you even know what you are talking about?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:18 PM
Jun 2014

Gang rapes? Unprovoked violent assaults on young black males? Thanks for sounding like Mel Gibson.

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
81. Tupac's criminal record is legend.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:27 PM
Jun 2014

In early 1994, he was found guilty of assault on Menace II Society co-director Allen Hughes and served 15 days in jail.

<snip>

The complainant claimed sexual assault after her second visit to Shakur's hotel room; she alleged that Shakur and his entourage raped her.

<snip>

The judge described the crimes during the sentencing of Shakur to 1½–4½ years in prison, as "an act of brutal violence against a helpless woman."

<snip>

Shakur's entourage, as well as Knight and his followers, assisted in assaulting Anderson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur

I'm not a fan boy of Tupac. I have a moral conscious and can read.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
85. We still need Tupac.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:30 PM
Jun 2014

The founding fathers raped slaves and i don't see you hating on them at all.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
82. I hate to use the "truth as a defense" trope to defend vitriol,
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:27 PM
Jun 2014

but Tupac had a criminal record and spent a year or two in prison for rape. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur#Legal_issues

As much as I like his music, it's impossible to ignore Tupac's criminal record. At least Tupac had talent, unlike R. Kelly or Jimmy Savile.

alp227

(31,962 posts)
89. Wikipedia:
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:38 PM
Jun 2014
In November 1993, Shakur and others were charged with sexually assaulting a woman in a hotel room. Shakur denied the charges. According to Shakur, he had prior relations days earlier with the woman that were consensual (the woman admitted she performed oral sex on Shakur). The complainant claimed sexual assault after her second visit to Shakur's hotel room; she alleged that Shakur and his entourage raped her...While appearing on the Arsenio Hall Show, Shakur stated he was innocent of all charges and he was hurt that "a women would accuse me of taking something from her" when he was raised by and was surrounded by females.[113] Shakur, did however, admit that he should have been more responsible with the people he surrounded himself with. After serving part of his sentence, Shakur was released on bail pending his appeal. On April 5, 1996, a judge sentenced him to serve 120 days in jail for violating terms of his release on bail.[114]

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
91. Convicted. He did it. Don't apoligize for the rape of a Black woman.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:44 PM
Jun 2014

Shakur was later a convicted sex offender, guilty of sexual abuse.

http://rap.wikia.com/wiki/Tupac_Shakur

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
96. Tupac was convicted by a jury of his peers.
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:01 PM
Jun 2014

You highlighted in bold "alleged". He participated in the gang rape of a Black woman, was convicted and imprisoned. I don't believe in soft peddling sexual assault.

 

1000words

(7,051 posts)
93. Jury results:
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:45 PM
Jun 2014

Epic fail. Enjoy the time out, alerter.

==============================

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Tupac was not a gang member, and did not spend his free time assaulting black people unprovoked. This is an example of stereotyping young black males as thugs and criminals. This racism and stereotyping of young black males is getting worse an worse on DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:27 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In this same post you alerted on, this poster pointed out other POC that they respect and wish there were more of. Just because he has an opinion on Tupac, does not make him/her a racist. This post is not against CS or the SOP. However, with the sensitive nature of things on this board, at this time, I'm sure you guilted at least four to vote hide. Congratulations.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster never says Tupac was a gang member or thug. The poster says we DO need more Tupacs and ...

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Someone needs to learn more about Tupac: The company he kept were predominately gang-bangers, he was convicted for sexual assault and was only let out when Snoop's record label sprung him. Leave it alone. Tupac was a very flawed individual.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

ZX86

(1,428 posts)
95. Black "boy" rage?
Tue Jun 17, 2014, 08:54 PM
Jun 2014

Since when is it acceptable to refer to a Black man or anything he engages in as "boy"? I've never heard that term before. I don't care for Tupac but he was a grown man. He made adult decisions and paid the adult price.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»White supremacy meets “bl...